And I laugh whenever anyone say things like "leave all the defense to the monk and concentrate on killing the target."
Actually that's exactly what you're supposed to do.
Quote:
Well guess what: that statement is wrong twofold. 1) Warrior shouts are instant cast, meaning it won't affect my killing rate in the least,
You mean the pathetic killing rate you have once you're completely out of energy?
So your defensive moves consist of ... "Watch Yourself!"? You think +20 armor is going to allow you to use Frenzy? You're deluding youself.
Quote:
Also, frenzy's double damage is not as not as big a downside as you make it out to be. If you did decide to target call me, I'd laugh that you werent concentrating on my monk or mes,
If you bothered to read, I stated that I would take out a monk first, obviously. After that, I won't need to call you as target, I can kill a frenzied Ranger on my own in seconds, thank you very much. While my team-mates will take out any other casters.
Quote:
And then I'd laugh again because your attacks would have to go through higher AL than your build has, +7 from bow grip and +20 from "Watch Yourself!" which reduces damage by about 40%. All in all, the ability to give your monk +20 AL and take VERY LITTLE more damage yourself is very worth it.
The most armor you can get against "everything" on a grip is +5, not +7 (vs physica OR vs Elemental, not both).
So your +25 armor is going to save you under Frenzy? That's a 31% reduction in damage. Congratulations, you're now taking 169% damage instead of 200% damage. Good luck with that.
Quote:
And lastly, Prep time. Your build spends about 6 TIMES longer than mine prepping with the current NR metagame.
Actualy I spend 3 times as long as you to prepare, under Nature's Renewal. 4 seconds cast time for JI + 2 seconds cast time for preparation.
Quote:
I spend 2 of 24 seconds, while you spend 6-7 of 12 or so. That gives me, in 24 seconds, about 11 more seconds than you to do anything. 10 seconds is more than enough time for a QS build to SINGLE-HANDEDLY take down a good monk build even backed by a good monk player.
I don't know, overall I still think W secondary is better.
That's all wonderfull. However, in the 12-15 seconds after I got my buffs up, I kill a caster target. You do (if one is to take your word) slightly faster. However, I can move on to the next target and do it again in a few seconds. I haven't blown all my energy. Can you state the same? That is the question ...
08 Aug 2005 at 17:48 - 42
roffle...noob
with any decent level into expertise spamming a 5 mana skill under QZ will not drain you.
and your using concussion shot which is 25 mana and claiming you can take down targets more efficiently...for the amount of mana you just spent on concussion (we'll assume your expertise is decent and put concussion shot at 17 mana) I get off 6-8 quick shots...
the point is rangers can operate under QZ very easily...and if you start getting low on mana..
SURPRISE!!!! you have a secondary class <offering of blood, energy drain, drain enchantment, inspired enchantment, inspired hex.........plenty of ways to get mana back>
[/owned]
08 Aug 2005 at 18:02 - 43
... if you're going to go around attempting to make fun of other people and callling them a "noob," at least spell rofl right, jeez ...
if you use something like offering of blood, thats a max gain of 13 energy ... which you'll use in about 5 quick shots, which conveniently take 2 seconds, while offering of blood recharges in 7, gj!
inspired hex and enchantment recharge in like 20 seconds ...
plus you gotta actually put attribute points into the other attribute. not to mention it screws up your casters.
08 Aug 2005 at 18:05 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yea Sue Me
with any decent level into expertise spamming a 5 mana skill under QZ will not drain you.
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QS under QZ drains you in 15 seconds, tops.
Quote:
and your using concussion shot which is 25 mana and claiming you can take down targets more efficiently...for the amount of mana you just spent on concussion (we'll assume your expertise is decent and put concussion shot at 17 mana) I get off 6-8 quick shots...
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Learn expertise effects. Concussion Shot costs me 12 energy.
Learn your attack skills. Concussion shot is immidiate, just like a QS or Distracting Shot. You can put it right in the normal + quickshot + concussion chain.
So you can get off 6-8 quickshots in the the same it takes the rest of us to get off 1 quickshot/distracting/concussion? Bullshit.
Quote:
the point is rangers can operate under QZ very easily...and if you start getting low on mana..
SURPRISE!!!! you have a secondary class
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Oh dear god ... speaking of owning:
Quote:
<offering of blood
Is Elite. Quickshot is Elite.
Quote:
energy drain,
Is Elite. Quickshot is Elite.
Quote:
drain enchantment, inspired enchantment, inspired hex.........plenty of ways to get mana back>
On a Warriors secondary that's supposed to be the end all be all of QS Ranger? Wow, you rock!
But assuming you do go with a Mesmer secondary ...
Drain Enchantment: gain of 10 energy in ... 25 seconds, aaaawesome (/sarcasm). Conditional on the target actually having an enchantment.
Inspired Enchantment: gainst of 3 energy in 20 seconds. Wow that's unbelievably good (/sarcasm) Conditional on the target actually having an enchantment.
Inspired Hex: gain of 8 energy in 20 seconds. Rocking right on (/sacracm). Conditional on the ally being hexed.
And just how many points did you invest in Inspiration to make this awesomeness happen? Exactly ...
Quote:
[/owned]
Yourself? Quite well, yes.
08 Aug 2005 at 18:49 - 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yea Sue Me
roffle...noob
with any decent level into expertise spamming a 5 mana skill under QZ will not drain you.
and your using concussion shot which is 25 mana and claiming you can take down targets more efficiently...for the amount of mana you just spent on concussion (we'll assume your expertise is decent and put concussion shot at 17 mana) I get off 6-8 quick shots...
the point is rangers can operate under QZ very easily...and if you start getting low on mana..
SURPRISE!!!! you have a secondary class <offering of blood, energy drain, drain enchantment, inspired enchantment, inspired hex.........plenty of ways to get mana back>
[/owned]
Rofl is spelled R-O-F-L.
Please stop theorying and get with real. 33 mana, 4 per QS under QZ MINIMUM, EVEN IF YOU HAVE 16 EXPERTISE. Take 1 back for a zealous bow and you are down 3 energy per shot. That gives you 11 shots until you are dry, and 1 or 2 more including regen. You fire QS once every 1/2 second, so yo are dry in ~6 seconds. Hard fact. Absolutely no way to dispute that.
QS rangers under QZ can operate well for 6 seconds. After that they are just about as bad as you can get. For the last time people, QZ is the COUNTER to QS. THis is NOT difficult to understand!
Putting Points in a secondary attribute takes away from marks or expertise or wilderness. (Depends on what preps you're using) There is NO way that a QS ranger can fit in ANY of those energy recahrge moves without COMPLETELY screwing himself over in the damage department. Not to mention that half your suggested skills are elite.
I had fun reading/responding to that, but please think just a little bit next time before you post and own yourself again.
08 Aug 2005 at 19:30 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yea Sue Me
roffle...noob
with any decent level into expertise spamming a 5 mana skill under QZ will not drain you.
and your using concussion shot which is 25 mana and claiming you can take down targets more efficiently...for the amount of mana you just spent on concussion (we'll assume your expertise is decent and put concussion shot at 17 mana) I get off 6-8 quick shots...
the point is rangers can operate under QZ very easily...and if you start getting low on mana..
SURPRISE!!!! you have a secondary class <offering of blood, energy drain, drain enchantment, inspired enchantment, inspired hex.........plenty of ways to get mana back>
[/owned]
I believe in giving degenerates and people who aren't old enough to read, breaks. So bear with him. Anyway -It's very hard to forsee what Quickening Zypher will do to your own team, let alone your opponents. Most rangers who pack it are lessening the durability, versatility, or outright damage of their teammates. Oh, and stat points distributed completely into Kindle Arrows won't give quite as much damage as using both Conjure Flame and Kindle Arrows.
08 Aug 2005 at 21:06 - 47
But then you cant use a zealous string =/
08 Aug 2005 at 21:23 - 48
Just a couple technical points to toss into the arena:
First, Expertise works on the post-Zephyr energy costs. Basically assume that your 5 energy skills cost 7, the 10 energy ones 13, then apply Expertise to that. You get a 3 energy break point on 5 energy skills at 13, and a 5 energy breakpoint on 10 energy skills at 15.
Quick Shot's description is wrong. It should read 'look at those numbers on the right'. Quick Shot has a 1 second use time that's affected by speed buffs.
Recharge times are never fractions of a second - it rounds. Quick Shot + Zephyr has no recharge time, as it rounds .5 seconds down to 0.
Armor Penetration uses a bunch of messy rounding - it rounds the target's armor to the nearest even number, not the nearest interger. In addition, it seems like armor penetration does *not* affect armor bonuses from weapons, and perhaps shields.
Peace,
-CxE
08 Aug 2005 at 21:25 - 49
with Kindle arrows and Conjure flame you don't need a fiery bowstring, you can still use a zealous.
08 Aug 2005 at 22:06 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdepue79
The damage from this is very nice, I got one shot vs necro of 84 and one vs a elem of 90, but the constant casting JI, RTW, and TF kinda sucks.
*shrug*
You get used to the sequence, it becomes second nature.
Hitting in low 90s on moving casters and mid 70s on stationary ones is more than worth it.
I brought Marksmanship down to 15, to get the duration up on JI, the damage would be alittle higher with 16 in Marksmanship).
And I went back to my Flatbow.
The Horn Bow does produce abit better damage with it's innate penetration, but it's slower. Enough to make a difference in the amount of arrows I output during those 15 seconds duration on JI (13s + 2s from 20% Bow Grip).
If my guild ever starts using Smiters in our builds that can put JI on me, I'll drop Monk secondary entirely and invest those points into Conjure, getting buffed for yet more damage.
'Cause QS builds are all about buffing those arrows ...
08 Aug 2005 at 22:10 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
First, Expertise works on the post-Zephyr energy costs. Basically assume that your 5 energy skills cost 7, the 10 energy ones 13, then apply Expertise to that. You get a 3 energy break point on 5 energy skills at 13, and a 5 energy breakpoint on 10 energy skills at 15.
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I can confirm this from my own experience. A QS user under Quicknening Zephyr will use 3 energy per shot (not 4, sorry Neo). Thus gaining back one with zelous, for a net loss of 2 energy per shot.
Assuming usage of Frenzy, one will run dry in just under 15 seconds assuming one started with full 32 energy.
Quote:
In addition, it seems like armor penetration does *not* affect armor bonuses from weapons, and perhaps shields.
Peace,
-CxE
Interesting info.
08 Aug 2005 at 22:11 - 52
I had 14 marks for the max damage from RTW. I had JI lasting about 12 seconds. Although I also put remaining pts in wilderness for Troll urgent since i was trying this out in 4 vs 4 random. I agree with you on using flatbow. For QS using QZ sure go with Horn bow, but since this is also shooting normal arrows and i bring Distract shot the flatbows ROF is definately better and I like the extra range.
09 Aug 2005 at 00:47 - 53
ROFL, your argument against QZ is so incredibly flawed its laughable. Remember that QZ is a GLOBAL AFFECTER - and which team is better prepared for its effects? Your team, or the other team which didn't take it? LOL.
Quote:
That's all wonderfull. However, in the 12-15 seconds after I got my buffs up, I kill a caster target. You do (if one is to take your word) slightly faster. However, I can move on to the next target and do it again in a few seconds. I haven't blown all my energy. Can you state the same? That is the question ...
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Where did you get the idea that a R/W isn't sustainable? 12 seconds at 80 DPS is huge! I suppose you think that because after an elementalist unloads he can't do anything means that the elementalist class sucks, right? 
Ooops, but guess what! A R/W can ALSO alternate between QS and normal and still deal out DPS equivalent to a moronic R/MO build, I guess you forgot about that huh.
Quote:
Healing Spring? Watch yourself? Are you joking? This is supposed to justify your character's stone drop in damage output?
Stone drop in damage output? What the hell are you talking about?
Quote:
The most armor you can get against "everything" on a grip is +5, not +7 (vs physica OR vs Elemental, not both).
Ranger already has more than enough defense vs. elements.
Quote:
Actualy I spend 3 times as long as you to prepare, under Nature's Renewal. 4 seconds cast time for JI + 2 seconds cast time for preparation.
ROFL check how long JI insight lasts compared to kindle. Again, laughable argument and completely false.
All in all, it comes down to the fact that frenzy doesn't work for you, while it does for me. In that case, it just takes a couple points in BM, as you yourself has pointed out, to get tiger's fury. And guess what, the damage output is still light years ahead of your build that spends MORE THAN HALF the time prepping to become more "sustainable" when in fact, you are not even that. Utterly laughable.
09 Aug 2005 at 01:00 - 54
Conjure Flame reads "while wielding a fire weapon". Kindle does not change your bow's damage type, and its damage isnt even added directly to the shot, it deals its damage independently. So it seems to me that you cant use Conjure without an elemental bowstring...
<assuming someonepoints out to me that Im wrong and it indeed is somehow possible>
There seems to be alot of spreading voer lots of attributes here. Nearly maxed marls, minimum 13 expertise, some Beast for TF, I was thinking to get rid of smiting by moving that to an allied smiter...but now we want to put in an element!?!?!?!? People its not possible. To get any respectable damage out of conjure you need ~10 points. I was thinking of high level beast for long TF, but theres no way if we add fire.
Just about as good as we can get it is
11+3 Marks
11+1+1 Expertise
8 <insert element here>
3+1 Beast
We get the 2 energy breakpoint for QS, 7 second TF, enough for respectable Conjure, and the rest dumped like mad into marksmanship. Remember to get your friendly neighborhood smiter to cast JI on you.
I wont defend himon taking JI (sorry Ender) I will challenge you regarding QZ. With the "current spirit meta-game" if you meet a team not prepared to battle under QZ, you arent in danger of losing anyways. They stink.
IF you are going to noramal/QZ like a normal QS ranger, why are you going to cripple yourself with QZ? Also, QZ requires wilderness, which I currently finding myself drifting away from for my QS ranger.
btw I thank all of you for one of the first intelligent and productive discussions Ive seen here in a while.
09 Aug 2005 at 01:22 - 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Conjure Flame reads "while wielding a fire weapon". Kindle does not change your bow's damage type, and its damage isnt even added directly to the shot, it deals its damage independently. So it seems to me that you cant use Conjure without an elemental bowstring...
<assuming someonepoints out to me that Im wrong and it indeed is somehow possible>
|
Conjure works with Kindle even if your weapon isn't elemental.
It shouldn't, but it does.
Quote:
Just about as good as we can get it is
11+3 Marks
11+1+1 Expertise
8 <insert element here>
3+1 Beast
Actually as already posted, I currently have:
15 Marksmanship (11 + 1 + 3)
13 Expertise (10 + 3)
09 Beast Mastery (8 + 1)
06 Smiting Prayers
Which results in a nice 15 second JI when using a 20% longer enchants bow grip.
If you drop Marksmanship to 14 and raise Smiting to 8, you get an 18 second JI using a 20% longer enchants bow grip.
If you have an external source of Judge's Insight, you can do:
14 Marksmanship (11 + 1 + 3)
13 Expertise (10 + 3)
09 Beast Mastery (8 + 1)
08 {Insert Element} Magic
Which, for 10 energy, for 60 seconds, raises your damage by a decent +9. This is in addition to RtW, Favourable Winds and JI improving your damage.
09 Aug 2005 at 01:26 - 56
But that uses 2 sup runes. Sacrilege!
09 Aug 2005 at 01:36 - 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
But that uses 2 sup runes. Sacrilege!
Hey, why? You're a Ranger. The 4th target on the priority list.
09 Aug 2005 at 02:09 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc
which team is better prepared for its effects? Your team, or the other team which didn't take it? LOL.
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Making team builds not capable of functioning under Nature's Renewal and Quickening Zephyr, these days, is idiotic.
It's also equally idiotic to let a team reliant on QZ to keep taking advantage of it, instead of killing the spirit in 5 shots.
Quote:
Where did you get the idea that a R/W isn't sustainable?
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From using that exact build.
Quote:
12 seconds at 80 DPS is huge!
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Where did you pull that 80 damage per second figure out of, your arse?
You've got nothing but normal bow damage + Kindle Arrows to improve your damage. I know from using this build that your max damage hovers around 50 per arrow.
You'd need to pile on buffs some more to get to 80 damage per second (or for QS builds, per arrow).
Quote:
I suppose you think that because after an elementalist unloads he can't do anything means that the elementalist class sucks, right?
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There's a difference between your QS setup and an Elementalist. You run dry in 12 seconds and then you're done. For a good long while, you're nowhere close to your claimed 80 dps.
The Elementaist on the other hand, under dual attunement or Ether Renewal, takes a good minute or longer to run dry, constantly casting. Not to mention that an Ether Renewal based Elementalist can quickly replenish his energy pool unlike your R/W.
It's a difference between downing one target and then twiddling your thumbs for a while, and downing several targets then having to regen energy (or not, under Ether Renewal).
Quote:
Ooops, but guess what! A R/W can ALSO alternate between QS and normal
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And deal nowhere close to the damage per arrow as a JI enhanced build.
Quote:
Stone drop in damage output? What the hell are you talking about?
Talking about what your character does after you've blown all of your energy killing a single target.
Quote:
ROFL check how long JI insight lasts compared to kindle.
With 6 in Smiting (means 15 Marksmanship in the build), using a 20% longer enchants bow grip, Judge's Insight lasts: 15 seconds.
With 8 in Smiting (means 14 Marksmanship in the build), using a 20% longer enchants bow grip, Judge's Insight lasts: 18 seconds.
Kindle Arrows lasts 24 seconds.
Judge's Insight coverts your entire damage to holy, and gives your entire damage range 20% armor penetration. It also affects the +16 damage you get from RtW and FW.
Quote:
All in all, it comes down to the fact that frenzy doesn't work for you, while it does for me.
No, what it comes down to is that R/W is a bad QS build. Not because of Frenzy (though it's not smart either), but because your per arrow damage is weak, and your so called "spike" damage output is unsustainable beyond the first target.
Quote:
And guess what, the damage output is still light years ahead of your build that spends MORE THAN HALF the time prepping to become more "sustainable" when in fact, you are not even that. Utterly laughable.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I've played with both. I wouldn't have settled on an inferior build. I'm a very competitive guy, I'll pick the build that gets me the best results. And I picked the build I posted. Not that R/W. I wonder why ...
Here is my build in full (just recently dropped marksmanship by 1) by the way:
Ranger/Monk
15 Markmanship
13 Expertise
09 Beast Mastery
06 Smiting Prayers
Quickshot
Distracting Shot (Tombs & GvG) / Concussion Shot (Arena)
Tiger's Fury
Read The Wind
Judge's Insight
Favourable Winds
Pin Down
Rez Signet
Zealous Flatbow of Enchanting (20%).
09 Aug 2005 at 02:13 - 59
just pointing this out ... QS with QZ shoots 3 arrows in two seconds, so if one of his arrows does 50 damage, he's doing 150 in two seconds, or 75 DPS
09 Aug 2005 at 02:19 - 60
Question to Charles Ensign, if you're stil reading this thread:
When using an Elemental weapon with a Conjure Element, the game seems to combine the conjure with the main weapon damage, displaying only one figure. Am I correct in this observation?
If you then enchanted this character with Judge's Insight, would the conversion to holy damage take place after the above "combination" or before? In other words, are Judge's Insight and Conjure Element mutually incompatible?
09 Aug 2005 at 02:44 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Ward
I just tested this again, comparing a Horn Bow to a Flatbow. The difference in speed is the time it takes a character to "recover" after the quickshot. It's very noticeable.
When you make the normal + quickshot sequence, the character "rests" for half a second after it, before beginning the next normal attack. This "rest" period is longer when using a Horn Bow rather than a Flatbow.
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OK, we were talking about different things then. I was talking about the speed of the actual Quick Shot and you're talking about the downtime after. Then yes, there's a speed difference between bows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatics
Anyway -It's very hard to forsee what Quickening Zypher will do to your own team, let alone your opponents.
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This is why I stopped bringing QZ in random arena, you get chewed out by your teammates too often. In more organized play though, QZ can be a great help if you plan for it. Offering of Blood every 8 seconds, Energy Drain every 10 seconds, Ether Renewal every 15 seconds... these skills are greatly helped by QZ and they will lead to a large net gain in energy as compared to having no QZ. Plus you screw the opposing team over if they are not built for playing under QZ. Finally, you get a 5s recharge Distracting Shot, which I've seen only one other person mention so far-- this is a doubleplus good boon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
Kindle does not change your bow's damage type
Yes it does. Kindle converts your bow's damage to fire, though this is not documented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Ward
When using an Elemental weapon with a Conjure Element, the game seems to combine the conjure with the main weapon damage, displaying only one figure. Am I correct in this observation?
No, the Conjure Damage is displayed separately.
Quote:
If you then enchanted this character with Judge's Insight, would the conversion to holy damage take place after the above "combination" or before? In other words, are Judge's Insight and Conjure Element mutually incompatible?
Yes, they seem mutually incompatible. I just tried this with my E/Mo and Conjure + JI is identical to JI by itself (only one damage number when using Conjure + JI that has about the same range as JI by itself).
09 Aug 2005 at 03:30 - 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Wallaby
No, the Conjure Damage is displayed separately.
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Just re-tested this. You are correct. Not sure why I thought it piled the damage together. Haven't played with the Conjure build in over a month though (Conjure + RtW was my original Quickshot build), so memory was faulty.
Quote:
Yes, they seem mutually incompatible. I just tried this with my E/Mo and Conjure + JI is identical to JI by itself (only one damage number when using Conjure + JI that has about the same range as JI by itself).
That's too bad 
May have to find another use for the secondary then, with an external source of JI.
09 Aug 2005 at 03:56 - 63
Quote:
Where did you pull that 80 damage per second figure out of, your arse?
You've got nothing but normal bow damage + Kindle Arrows to improve your damage. I know from using this build that your max damage hovers around 50 per arrow
Rofl, further proof you have no clue what you're talking about. 50 per arrow = 80~ per second. GREAT job with the mathemathics. Adn again, its sustainable because it can use the exact same freaking tactics you use to make your build sustainable and deal the SAME AMOUNT OF DPS, something I've repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored.
I'm done. I have no further inclination to argue with someone so ignorant. I'm almost at the point of believing youre just effing around and not seriously meaning what you say. But oh well, peace out.
09 Aug 2005 at 05:00 - 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by traversc
50 per arrow = 80~ per second. GREAT job with the mathemathics.
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|
This statement is too incoherent for me to interpret ...
Quote:
Adn again, its sustainable because it can use the exact same freaking tactics you use to make your build sustainable and deal the SAME AMOUNT OF DPS, something I've repeatedly said and you've repeatedly ignored.
What you have repeatedly ignored (because it's clearly inconvinient), is that once you've blown your energy, you can stil attempt to do the normal + quickshot sequence, but with arrows that are much weaker.
And ofcourse let's not forget that you're stil paying 3 energy per every quickshot, so you'll be regenerating for a while (unless you don't use QS and reduce your damage output even further).
Keep up with the insults, though. They truly help prove your point.
After you've exhausted your energy in 10-15 seconds as a Quickshot R/W, for much too long your damage output becomes crap, period.
09 Aug 2005 at 07:31 - 66
You know, just on the off chance that I might be missing something, I went and yet again played for 10 games in the random Arena with that R/W build:
14 Marksmanship
13 Expertise
12 Wilderness Survival
QS, Kindle Arrows, Frenzy, Lighting Reflexes (came in handy so often ...), Favourable Winds, Quickening Zephyr, etc. I lucked out with a team that could function well under QZ.
With a perfect +35% Hornbow, the damage never went beyond 55 on casters, and never above 50 on warriors.
Stil, I could easily take out a target (even a Warrior or Ranger) in about 10 seconds. And then, that was it. I had to wait and wait and wait until my energy was back to nearly full levels, so I could kill another target.
The damage I was doing under the normal + QS sequence during this recharge period was very underwhelming. I cannot justify this downtime, when I needed to do to gank the next target 5 seconds ago, not 20 seconds from now.
Some games were way too close, because Ender Ward had to wait for his energy to regen.
That's the problem with QZ based QS builds. Under QZ, for 10 seconds, you're a god. After that, your damage is subpar, at best. This is reality that won't be changed no matter how many times a certain someone screams "wrong! wrong!".
09 Aug 2005 at 12:10 - 67
You know Ender, if you cant use conjure element and are getting JI externally, someone in this thread suggested spamming watch yourself at 0 tactics. If you have a lame duck 8th skill, why not? Mr I use 2 sup runes will need the extra defense.
Anyways if the hardcore QZ fans dont get it by now, they wont ever. You, me, we've all explained it. But I have yet to see one of the QZ guys comment on it. ll they can seem to say is "I can shoot an enemy dead in 10 seconds with my uber gatling gun skillz. " But we know. And us-non QZers are willingly passing up a little of that damage to gain some semblence of longetivity. To avoid going in circles AGAIN, there are a few facts which the QZ guys must adress before we can get anywhere further in this discussion...
1. The arrows under QZ are much weaker. It has been playtested, ~50 per shot vs ~75 per shot. Considering firing rates, this actually means they have the same dps even when the QZ guy is going full steam.... intersteing......
2. Once the QZ ranger is dry, and he WILL be dry in ~15 seconds, what then? Apparently I was mistaken and it is net 2 energy lost, not 3. But thats still bad. 15-16 shots takes about 8 seconds and he is completely uselesss. How does he regain back energy (remeber you attributes are pretty much locked since you need marks/expert/beast AND wilderness)
3. What if QZ is killed. Now its you with your 50 damage arrows firing at the SAME rate as the 75 dmg per arrow ranger anyways. Teams that are especially annoyed by QZ will take it down. And no Oath Shot for you = no spam. What then?
Please do not respond to those questions with "for 12 seconds we can fire so fast" or "Our first target is down in less than 10 seconds". With the number of times thats been said in this thread already, I think I got it. I was listening to you. Now the question is, are you listening to me?
09 Aug 2005 at 12:46 - 68
Don't contribute to the flaming.
-Scaphism
The best Judge's Insight build I've tried is JI + Melandru's Arrows + 9 second of Tiger's Fury. Beats your QS running out of energy in 5 - 8 shots.
09 Aug 2005 at 15:55 - 69
QS builds dont run out of energy. At least ot if they didnt cast QZ
09 Aug 2005 at 18:15 - 70
The R/W quickshot ranger works because he's able to draw on a separate pool (Adrenaline) for defensive stamina while shooting arrows. NOT because of frenzy, which gets him killed rather fast.
There's no point in bringing QZ. 80% of the time, you can count on the enemy to plop one down for you.
09 Aug 2005 at 21:01 - 72
how does the JI+MA+TF build work? Does it use normal attacks, or penetrating/dual shot, or a combination of those?
09 Aug 2005 at 21:15 - 73
IMO, MA kicks QS's ass. I don't doubt that you can fire your bow like a gatling gun with QS, but MA packs more punch per arrow, especially against eles and boon monks.
09 Aug 2005 at 22:20 - 75
Strength of Honor only works on melee attacks. And your missing JI. I suspect a mind fart. You probably meant JI in that first slot. Using Currently you need 5 attributes (wild/marks/expert/beast/smite) so how do you spen attributes (not attacking, I want to know)
I think maybe
11+3 Expert
9+2 Marks
9+1 Wild
3+1 Beast
5 Smite
0 dead points yay! Thats about as good as it can get. You get a 7 second TF, and a Decently long (notsure exactly) JI. If you can get JI externally, you can drop Smite entirely and pump either marks or wilderness one more notch.
I like those skills, I think Id pick Favorable Winds for the 7th slot, myself.
09 Aug 2005 at 23:15 - 77
Definately would be great to get JI from a real smiter, but that deoesnt always happen... see if this guy needs a smiter, and the smiter needs a warrior to cast balths on, and the group needs a monk, thats an entire arena team. No room for any other classes that you may need or want.
10 Aug 2005 at 03:15 - 79
sorry, but smiters really need their warriors with their speed buffs... especially the ele/monk smiters with balthazar's aura, zealots fire, and ether renewal + draw conditions spam
10 Aug 2005 at 03:30 - 80
Quote:
And the JI+MA+TF build is a staple "kill aything" build that will hit damage spike higher than a QS build and will have better long-term success.
Yay! Agreeance! Green Tea Ice Cream > All.
I hope this doesn't turn out to be the standard build for Rangers now, it's very damaging.
This is my build (I rarely play this build in 4v4 but have never lost due to the brilliance of my teammates)
9 Beast Mastery
10 Smiting Prayers
The rest as you see fit.
Tiger's Fury
Melandru's Arrows
Judge's Insight
Favorble Winds
Skill
Skill
Skill
Rez Signet
Tactics:
Favorable Winds, when enemy is in range, cast Judge's Insight, prepare Melandru's Arrows, then Tigers Fury ONCE. Once it's over, shoot normally until JI and MA run out and cast them again, then TF ONCE, rinse and repeat.
10 Aug 2005 at 03:41 - 81
What is so good about Melandru's Arrows? It seem really too conditional to be used in general.
10 Aug 2005 at 03:53 - 82
Quote:
What is so good about Melandru's Arrows? It seem really too conditional to be used in general.
It causes bleeding, and lots of extra damage IF the player is under an enchantment. Works best in none NR teams.
10 Aug 2005 at 04:15 - 83
Melandru's Arrows is gimped in the current (Nature's Renewal) metagame.
Not enough people use enchantments to justify it. And without enchants, it adds a very underwhelming 6 damage per second (bleeding) to your character's effectiveness. It would be more effective to use plain old Apply Poison (8 damage per second).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackace
Leave marks at 9.
Are you serious?
10 Aug 2005 at 10:47 - 85
Quote:
Melandru's Arrows is gimped in the current (Nature's Renewal) metagame.
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Ho-hum,
thanks for repeating what I said mum.
Quote:
Not enough people use enchantments to justify it. And without enchants, it adds a very underwhelming 6 damage per second (bleeding) to your character's effectiveness. It would be more effective to use plain old Apply Poison (8 damage per second).
Don't know what games you've been playing but enchants are always used. Maybe not the -1 enchants but Healing Breeze, Protective Spirit, etc etc etc.
10 Aug 2005 at 11:20 - 86
At least in arena, there is usually at least 1 enemy who is enchanted. Almost guareteed. Elementalists with attunement. IWs. Prot monks. Boon Monks. Noob wars. Life Bond/Blessed Sig Monks. JI rangers lol. It doesnt matter if they dont all have one, if one of them does, thats who you want. JI makes it so even if the war is the only guy enchanted, hes the guy you can do the most damage to. And its some pretty sick damage. (I tried it tonight) You liely will have to attack a different target than your other allies. Thats fine, as long as you have 2 attacking 1 and you riping up a different guy, your still effective.
Main weakness I saw was it ran out of energy and had to recast JI alot. Definately want to have that coming externally.
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