lower level PvP arenas and those who get "run"...

Like anyone else, I was very excited for this weekend's PvP Xtreme event. I have played in PvP a small amount (as I have four PvE characters, one of whom is a designated pre-sear guild recruiter).

I love playing PvP, even though I'm not very experienced with it yet. All of my characters have armor and skills in-line with their level. I don't get run anywhere and enjoy actually playing PvE also. I don't have a problem, per se, with those who get run, each person has their way of playing.

My problem is this: (take the Ascalon Arena for example). Being a level 10 and having level 10 skills and armor is what that arena is for. I go in to play PvP tonight with my ranger and not two seconds into the game another ranger applies poison on me. I think you get this skill at Droknar's Forge?? My team of level 10 and under wearing ascalon armor doesn't stand a CHANCE.

This just isn't fair. The level caps on arenas are so that it's an equal playing field. So that I, as a "lower" level, can play people at the same level as me, with the same armor and same skills.

I dont' suppose running will ever or can ever be banned or nerfed. But I do have a suggestion for fixing this (and it's simple): make armor have a level requirement and make elite skills have a level requirement or even non-elite skills too! There should NOT be a level 3 in elite armor using elite skills. Or even a level 10. It's not fair to the rest of us in PvP and makes it not fun, honestly.

As someone just getting their feet wet in PvP - I barely get a chance to learn because of those who "cheat" the system and can kill me in two seconds flat.

/end rant.

(i've heard Anet monitors these forums for actual suggestions? - please let this be true).

I partially agree. I don't like the idea of armor, weapons and skills having a level requirement, but I do like the idea of the PvP arena's taking armor level and skill level into account before allowing entry.

That's a good idea too. It might get more complicated than the simple level caps they have in place now.

Let Anet figure out HOW exactly, but I feel something has got to be done about it.

Apply Poison? I don't think you get that in Droknar's Forge, my Ranger has it early on in the game, though I forget where. Now...if he Poison Arrowed..

You're right, I don't know if it was apply poison. It was some sort of poison (as my health bar was green) that took my health to zero in a matter of seconds.

no elites and forge armors at the entry of the arena. Problem solved.

Apply Poison is found in the Ascalon Settlement. It's still far ahead from Ascalon. But it's not uncommon to see people using elites in those arenas.
There's been lots of threads about this problem, and nothing has been done. And on this last Fansite Friday, the devs answered a question about the low level arenas, and I didn't like what they said:


I guess that means the devs don't look at the forums enough.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=51971
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=50644
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=40228
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=20656

What do you think?

EDIT: Oh right, and the suggestion I like the most is the checkpoints. It won't keep the low levels who want to rush to Droknar for their armor, but won't let them use the skills and armor from the later areas in the arena. Simply put a checkpoint in Yak's Bend and another in Beacon's Perch. Yak's avoid players from playing in Ascalon Arena and Beacon's avoid players from playing in the Shiverpeaks Arena, leaving them the Competitions Arena in Lion's Arch and Team Arena in Droknar's Forge.

it wont work that well, they might as well buy the ventauris refuge armor, and there are pvp pwning skills that are not elite ex: air spikes(chain lightning), obsidian flame/crystal wave spams, u can kill a guy in 2-3 hits using the flame.

why not just put a level 11 requirement on all armors past, say, LA? This way, people can get the uber leet armor of northern shiverpeaks, go to ascalon arena and "pwn"

and, you're not restricting anyone else, because the drok runners usually level up(eventually) and putting it on LA would be good, because it would reduce what few rushes leave from LA

sorry, forgot to put this in my last post :/

for skills, you could do the same thing, putting a level 11 requirement on all skills past LA, so the scales arent tipped horribly

lebdan, i saw that the other day. at least they SEE there MAY be a problem.... although i think it is more of an issue than they let on. and thanks for the other forum links.

level cap on skills at LA and beyond wouldn't be bad idea. as long as this is meant in the context of the order you're SUPPOSED to go in. obviously, droknar's is further (as far as story line and difficulty) and the level cap should include drok's.

i just think something needs to be done, it's ruins it.

I played in the lower level arenas a few times, to give it a try, and quickly gave up on the idea. This game sucks for this kind of thing. And the reason is how many of the participants have higher level armor and higher level skills because they got run somewhere. Or weapons, which if they weren't customized, were handed down from the player's higher level characters.

One thing that would help here is to have stronger level limits on when certain skills can be learned, which armor class can be worn, and which weapons can be used.

I hate it how this kind of subject is ignored and someone not long after posts a new thread about this. Something has to be done about this.

The only thing that comforts me - and it's not much - is knowing how crippled these elite skill users/max armor wearers will be when they find themselves on EQUAL footing for once in their lives at level 20 arenas. They will not know how to win.

I have taken to referring to these folks as "dopers," equating it roughly with steroid abusers in professional sports. "Just a game..." "Anything to win..." -- same arguments, same desperate people who believe they couldn't win without the edge. Sad, really.

i dont think there should be a level restriction.but maybe if you have those skills on your bar you cant enter the arena

edit: oh yeah armor too

I'll have to resurrect this topic again. I'm sorry but I won't sit with crossed arms while this kind of stuff still happens. Even if it means posting just to keep the thread on the first page so it's easily read by the devs.

The best solution would be to lock armor levels in the lower level arenas. In ascalon arena and yak's bend your armor levels are locked at the medium armor (30 for most classes, not sure of exact number for warriors.) If you have weaker armor it is boosted to that level and better armor is reduced. As for the skills, just throwing an error message saying that you can't enter the arena with elites on your skillbar.

You can't have it perfectly balanced in the lower level arenas, but you can at least limit the advantage twinks get. The PvP arenas aren't meant to be competitive until you hit the lvl 20 arenas, before that it is susposed to be an introduction to PvP for players.

Additionally make the LA arena 15-20 PvE only and create a 20 with max armor arena in Amnoon. It really sucks when you want to get a few decent PvP rounds in and you get players low level players on your team who are promptly massacred. It isn't any fun playing against them either.

I have a better suggestion which i think would work well.

For the Ascalon Arena, make it so that any armor or skills you could possibly unlock from yaks bend on is restricted. For example. If a level 6 had yaks bend armor or better, they would not be allowed into the ascalon arena. Same for skills. If a level 8 ranger had Poison arrow equipped they would not be allowed until they remove that skill from their skill bar.

Same idea for Shiverpeak Arena, the limit there would be lions arch.

etc. etc.

Some may think its too restrictive, since it basically kills all runners by making them make a choice between uber leet armor/skills or arena play. But its the only way to make the arenas equally fair, which is what Anet has been striving to do the whole time: Equality in gameplay.

The problem here is that it's definatly possible to get to Yak's Bend and beyond under level 10 just through normal play.

I agree entirely! The low level PvP Arena's are totally screwed. They are NO fun because you can't go 2 matches in a row without running into some jerk wearing Drok's armor and/or using elites or using freaking Apply Poison to wipe out the entire opposing team in less than a minute!

This is outright ABUSIVE and Unfair. I have posted other threads to this fact on other websites, that ANET says they are monitoring. Everyone needs to sound off on this so we can get this problem fixed. A lot of good, reasonable suggestions have been made to fix this issue, all it takes is someone in charge to listen and take action.

ANET are you listening? Apparently I am not the only *crazy* person who thinks this is an issue. Why don't some of you developers grab a low level character and go to the Ascalon Arena and see how long it takes for you to get Poisoned or to run into Drok armor. I don't care how skilled you are, you will most likely get owned in seconds coming across these skills when you only have 200-260 health. Remember, its not just ELITES and high AL that is a problem, its pretty much all the skills beyond Yaks Bend.....Stinking Apply Poison....getting real tired of that one.

I agree 100%, the other day i meet a lvl8 character, yes i did say 8, in droknars forge, so I asked what he was doing there as he couldnt possibly do any quests/missions.
He replied "I only want the armor so I can go back & kill everyone in the arena".
I then asked "but where is the fun in that"?
He said "I dont like the PvE part so I got my PARENTS to buy me 200k gp (I presume on ebay), so I could get uber, very fast".
Sigh,,,,,,Kids,,,,I forgot it is school holidays here in England.
(I work nights so can only play during the day).

That's basically the checkpoints idea I mentioned on my first post this thread. Just uh, the checkpoint for Competition Arenas should be Beacon's Perch, because you can get to Droknar's Forge before LA.
And I think even though you can reach Yak's under level 10, I still think it's ok to restrict those from going on Ascalon Arena. It's not hard to get to 12 and get competitive in Shiverpeak's.

One time I had Mist Form on a level 8.

I don't think anyone really sees the level 1-15 areanas as being that serious. With faction this could get abused, but with random teams and the more than likely chance that everyone on the enemy team will have droknar's armor and elite skills?

I didn't even know any of those areanas existed untill I was level 20 o.o

The exact reason it shouldn't be allowed for advanced armors and skills is that. The early arenas are for those low level starting characters. What's the fun you'll find on a game you get owned on the first time you go on PvP because some <censored> rushed accross the game just to 'pwn'.
I think that kind of people should grow up too.

thanks for all the responses this thread has gotten - glad to know that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Lower level arenas are for learning PvP and learning how to play your specific character, that's impossible when you're killed in a few seconds flat. (I really hate apply poison).

Anyway, keep this thread going, even if it is just to /sign it so A.net can tally up how many of us feel it is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

Nothing was more BS then when I went into the Ascalon 1-10 lvl PvP arena. Lvl 10 chars with drok armor, max dmg weapons and yes..elite skills. One guy had 3 lvl 10 chars which he uses only in the lvl 10 arena so he can farm for faction points.

So I went and got drok armor and came back, if the group I fought was really lvl 10's I took off most of my armor, if someone had drok or used elite skills, I made them my b!tch.

This probelm also carries over to shiverpeak arena. Most PvP arenas are heavily unbalanced. I dont even play PvP with my PvE char unless they are ascended have drok armor and elite skills. And then its unfair to others when i play in the lions arch arena and encounter a lvl 17 in lions arch armor.

for PvP arenas an armor req would be excellent. but for PvE annoying, i buy drok armor early as its cheaper to buy it first instead of always upgrade.

Goodness, I agree.

Going through the game the first time, I didn't really notice the arenas, so I missed out (such a pity ) on Ascalon and Yak's.

Then, I brought my second character, a N/Me, into post-searing.

Went to Ascalon.

Holy...

So you know those smiters, the ones that are the current FotM? My team got one of those against us in the first bout we played. He started off talking big, then fired of Zealot's, shield of judgement, spammed with Zealot's and RoF. No Ether Renewal, but he beat us pretty bad anyways. He was also wearing Drok's. Of course, he bragged at the end.

Needless to say, I only go to Ascalon Arena when I'm at my most masochistic.

I think that a higher limit of armor and skills for PvP would solve the problem in a very nice way. Now if only the devs would agree...

I agree with your post about unbalanced PvP in low level arena's. Anet says that it doesn't mind running, so to me that means the responsibilities lie with those who get run to areas. It is real simple, those people should be reported and banned for blatantly abusing the system. For anyone who has played "the hard way" running to droks with 2nd, 3rd, or 4th char is cool. Actually, when I did it, I used the missions and quests to make the money and supplies needed, and was getting last piece right when I beat dragon mission, go figure. Plus, if you have never ran it, try it, it is a thrill and extremely fun.

Anet, Gaile Grey, Somebody in charge! Please give us some indication you are listening! This isn't a Nerf this Nerf that thread. Its about a genuine problem and basic Fairness.

What is Anet's position on this? I know earlier you guys said you have no problems with runners...that is why Lornar's Pass is there. You also said that it wasn't a problem for low levels to have Drok's armor....as long as they were not taking that armor and skills and using them in the low level arena's....YOU said you would be watching...

Well, its happening a lot now. My options are to either not do PvP before level 20 or to get a run to Droknars or over to Kryta for better armor and skills...just to be halfway competitive in the low level arena. It is not right. Do you need more proof than all the threads already made on this topic? I have a lot of screenshots of Knights and Platemail Armor and the character's names and levels (all 10 or under) and pics of the poison affect on my team. Just let me know where to send them...I will do the legwork for you to prove there is a lot of PvP abuse in the Low level arena's.

Uhm, bringing it back to the first page. This really is an issue and shouldn't be left behind.

thanks. let's keep this going. any more suggestions about how it could be controlled?

Could we get someone from A.net to acknowlege us maybe? Gaile - I know you're out there!?

I feel there's a very simple way it could be controlled... disallow certain armor levels in each arena (zone in and start the fight naked... "wtf???") And also disallow elite skills in the Ascalon Arena and possibly Yak's as well (since you wouldn't have gotten the cap sig yet).

haha, you just made me laugh. that would be great - start the fight naked. A.net - hear that? PLEASE DO THAT!!! while you're at it - those elite skills they put in (not just elite, but skills from further areas would be nice to limit too) - have blank spots in the skill bar... so they'll learn!?

Bringing the topic back to the first page.
It's not like I'd be doing this if they didn't tell you to post about this in the forums when you mail them so they can read the opinion of other players. But it doesn't seem like they're doing much research on the forums. I hope they change something this wednesday, or I'm gonna be seriously upset.

That I so agree with and have been saying myself. People are so concerned about runners getting armor and elite skills and going to the lower arenas, they fail to see the problem is with how the armor is used. Same with the skills.

I have a lv17 Ranger who since lv9 has had Droknar armor and a few elites, poison arrow to be one of them. I've never gone into an arena to battle, so am I hurting anyone? Nope? Am I hurting myself by getting run? Nope... I've gone back and done everything in order, just with better armor and skills.

See the real issue is people going there for droknar armor and going back to arenas. Cap the lv available in armor for each class. Say for example highest armor available for a warrior before yaks is 41 from collectors... then nothing more then 41 allowed on a warrior. Same with skills. It would be simple to know what skills are available up to Yaks and only allow those skills for a warrior at the ascalon arena. How hard would that be? Not very. And it would certainly shut up everyone complaining about getting pwned by noobs in uber armor.

So next on the chopping block... the use of purple and higher weapons in lower arenas.

You know maybe the solution is to close the lower level arenas, since Anet finds it too hard to make the necessary changes.

I agree Mavrik - i dont' care about people who get run, other than those same people using their better skills in lower level arena. (and i don't mean their real skill, but their spells, heh). The higher weapons - that doesn't make as much of a difference, in my opinion. if you meet the req for that weapon, use it.

and i certainly don't think the lower level arenas should be closed. i'd love to go in and play in those (and get a chance to live for more than a few seconds and therefore LEARN). but hey, maybe i'm asking too much.

Pretty much samething here. At some point I plan on having a char run to Droks (need to get thier legitmatly first, most likely have my warrior run). But no intention of using it in arena's and greatly dilike people who do.

I noticed the random arena when I first made it to post-searing and tried them, it was very late at night and not many people. Had a blast for about 30 minutes or so, then some guy with a flaming sword. I did 0, 0, 0, 1, 0 damage with my bow, when I hit him with a conjure phantasm he immediatly ran up and killed me (dang near killed him). Didn't really know what happened, why I died so quick and why I couldn't damage him, then noticed that the it took him longer to kill the elementalist on my team than me - signifigantly longer. Next round the ele was on the opposing team and I did something like 1-4 damage to her. Eventually figure it out from boards (didn't know you could run to get better armor and skills).

Haven't played PvP since then, can't really play it until you either unlock enough skills to make a useful PvP char (and it takes up a slot) or make it to droks. So I pretty much suck at it. People who sole fun in the game is to grief, or remove other peoples fun, should not be tolerated. As long as you are only effecting yourself (droks armor in beginning in PvE for example) wear it out, only you can decide what is fun.

I did the droknars thing once. with an Ele/Ranger and i played in ascalon arena for about 2 hours got about 500 balthazar grew tired and started doing missions. im now lvl 18 and many people are extremely greatfull to have me in thier team for missions. I don't see it as a problem, if you take away running and such then you make the game more linear.

But if you do want it changed, you could work it through these logic gates...

Must do these missions in this order. if 0 then errormsg1
Must have selection of 20 skills in Ascalon arena. if 0 then errormsg2
Must have selection of 40 skills in Yaks Bend arena if 0 then errormsg3
Must have no weapon over 12 max damage in Ascalon Arena if 0 then errormsg1

Must have certain armour to enter if 0 then errormsg1

Hell maybe even a Must be Warrior/monk with frenzy, sever artery, gash, ress signet, endure pain, orison of healing and mending

Then everyone could have an equal chance GOSH that would be swell

May as well remove dyes and force specific height and faces ect. that would make everyone more equal then remove the obstacles from the map. no higher ground cuz it makes rangers "t3h win"

Maybe remove all colours from the game exept a mild tone of grey replace blue team with circles red team with crosses and develop a "grid" system if you will where you win by placing 3 of your team mates in a line.

obviously take it in turn to see who goes first. Maybe eliminate the score system. Have everyone on the same team. w00t Balancing is fun.

i'm sick of all this he ran to droknars stuff. If someone owns you with droknars skills, you go to droknars. Not that hard. I did it once now my air ele is lvl 18 and can still fight in LA, people who do it do not lose when they no longer have an edge (with the exeption of some very newbie people) it just give you more time to play with the skills, and find decent combo's.

AND PLEASE don't post telling me to get english lessons because my commas are in the wrong place or i missed a capital letter. you are all capable of reading this. Argue with my points, not with my grammer. We are all more mature here than to pick at spelling.

This is not supposed to be a whine or a flame, i am not a runner fanboy i did it once. Too much balancing could ruin the game. Running is available to everyone, complaining about it is like complaining about ure elementalist not being as good of a tank as a warrior.

Anet are doing a good job, i'm sure they will do all they can to level the playing field. BUT i hope it is done very subtley NOT by imposing stupid lvl caps and checkpoints.

YOU CAN TAKE OUR EDGE, BUT YOU'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!

No one said to take away running or put level caps on armor and skills for PvE - they said to make lower level arenas fair. I could give a crap if you run your characters - I'd rather not run mine, thank you. I'm not forcing you (nor wanting to) to NOT run, you can't say that I SHOULD run - or that that should be the solution. Yes, running is available to everyone (for a price) - that does not in any way mean that everyone wants to do it. If max armor was supposed to be had by all at the beginning of the game, it'd already be there.

Just because we want our lower level characters to actually have *gasp* a chance in the LOWER LEVEL arenas, doesn't mean we want to take away individuality or competition. In fact, leveling the playing field would INCREASE competition.

Just like anyone correcting your spelling and grammar would be "immature" (as you put it) so is confronting us with sarcasm and rudeness as opposed to a mature and thought-out argument and/or discussion.

Grow up. And yes - you are most definitely whining.