lower level PvP arenas and those who get "run"...

I figured Beacon's Perch for a go/no-go place as its the last "town" before you can cap elites or reach the higher armor levels. Sure you could change it to "reaching Lions Arch or Camp Rankor or Deldrimor War Camp".... but comeone that's just overly complicated. If we're interested in keeping the Low and Mid arenas cleared of twinked chars... then you have to draw a line somewhere. Make it simple so its easy to understand (and therefore have less loopholes as well!).

Taken from fansite friday:
A "runner" is someone who helps lower-level players skip through major parts of the game. Guild Wars doesn't prohibit players from taking short-cuts, but the concept of an even playing field for PvP flies out the window when low-level players acquire and use high-end armor or gear in PvP matches. Naturally it gives them a significant advantage. What is ArenaNet's position on "running" and on the perception that the lower-level tournaments are being adversely affected by it?

Guild Wars:
<etc etc>
You've seen a corrective measure taken with the restoration of XP in the arena. When players acquire XP, they level. When they level, they soon "outgrow" the low-level arena. This means that players who are intent on abuse would have to spend a lot of time and a lot of effort to create a new character exclusively for that purpose.
<etc etc>

I do see that there is XP gain for those in arena. But it's not enough. Even with straight victories, you're gonna take at least 3 hours to level up from 7 to 8 in there.

I don't think it's corrective enough.

From fansite friday... I dont' see how the current fix is ANY sort of fix or how either of the proposed ones would be. We're not talking about stopping runners here completely here - this is just about the low level areans.

PLEASE - ArenaNet - please read this thread and consider these suggestions. We dont' want to limit runners and start that huge war - we just want to stop those that use running as an advantage in low level PvP arenas only.

and on another note - there have been some great suggetions here and minmal flaming (YAY)!! I am glad there is so much support for this. Keep it coming.

hmm.... this is fun. I went into ascalon last night and a female warrior with cleave, full knights armor, and was lvl 12 with everything with a sup absorbition rune was owning my monk bad, no one on any team could kill her. ok fine so u got run to get skills, and armor, and runes and such. everyone now a days does, but being lvl 12 in the arena shouldnt be allowed. they should have booted you long before you reached that point IMO.

Agreed. I am not satisfied with Anet's answer, and no one has yet explained to me, with any logic or coherence, the justification for using/abusing the ahem, keyword "lower level" arenas in this way.

The thing is, people DO spend a lot of time and a lot of effort twinking to head into lower levels, making the other players' lives miserable. (Actually, the "effort" bit is debatable.)

They don't spend time or effort. They spend money and as you know you can achieve an insane amount of money from one lucky drop.

I'm sorry - I mis-wrote - the time I was referring to, is the time spent killing me over and over again in lower-level arena, and taking forever to level out!

While I agree that it's unfair for someone to get an advantage just because they got rushed to Droknars, in reality, there are 4 4v4 arenas, Ascalon, the level 15 one (Forgot name), and the Competition and Team Arenas, but the first two are really just demos of the last two. I mean, you can say it's a problem, but it's a problem that you can avoid by just going to the real arenas. There's a reason why those two arenas get much less faction.

I appreciate the input, I do. No offense, but it sounds like you haven’t PvP’d much in Ascalon/Shiverpeaks? Please don’t take the following the wrong way:

I think this thread ought to be contributed to by people who have an opinion, yes or no, about the usage of elites/max armor in the lower level arenas.

So far, those who have expressed an opinion, vote no – nobody really votes “yes to twinkies” out loud. Why is that?

I believe most of us are aware of level 20 random and Team arenas. Those who are against twinkies at lower levels, are sick to death of being told to just go to the higher level arenas. Perhaps it is your personal solution to the problem, just to avoid it altogether, but that is not any sort of argument.

Make your case, if you wish, about why these twinkies ought to be allowed to continue this way – but don’t tell me to leave these arenas, and pretend it is the perfect solution.

Our point is this (and it's simple, really) - those lower arenas are training ground... so you can learn to use the skills you have and BUILD up your skill (as in ACTUAL skill and ability) and your knowledge of how to use your particular character. People who are new to the game or have a new character might actual like to learn to play PvP... I know I would... before getting to level 20 and playing in the "real" arenas. Nevermind the fact that a low level character cannot "avoid" low level arenas and just go to the "real ones." Those are not accessible for a while. The two suggestions that are NOT solultions: "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and "who cares? i don't - you shouldn't, get over it"

These suggestions do not help, don't make them.

There is something to be said about being given the option to fight in an environment against other players with a limited choice of basic skills/items etc.

This is exactly the same kind of fun that can be found in a few CS:S servers. Pistols only, Snipes Only and the like. Or in Jedi Knight you can set a game to be Sabers only. This has the potential to be as much fun as those areas where you have the access to bring anything you want, and sometimes can bring more enjoyment than such areas.

Again, just so "No" to Twinkies and "Yes" to a perma-fix to DENY their lazy arses access to the lower level arenas.

/bumpage

This has been a problem for a pretty long time now, so I am personally pretty appalled that this hasn't been fixed yet. I have no problem with people who run their characters to Droknar's and the like. I have never done it and don't plan on doing it, but if that makes you happy, rock on. But taking Droknar's armor and elite skills into those low-level arenas is just obnoxious. I can't imagine being a new player and going in to the Ascalon arena to try out some PvP and having to deal with this.

ArenaNet will lose a lot of players if they don't do something about this soon. A simple flag to not allow you to compete if you have these things would suffice, I think.

I hardly ever PvP, but I really feel badly for those who wish to compete in these lower level arenas and have to deal with immature morons who feel the need to "pwn the n00bs!!!1!!"

/bumped

i know this thread could be considered dead - but i want ArenaNet to see it!!!

/bump

They have seen it, unfortunately.

I just like this thread because it helps me therapeutically. Knowing there are like-minded folks out there really helps a lot.

Two days ago I was playing as my level 15 N/me in Yak's Bend Areana. Everyone on both sides died except for me and a Mesmer that had Illusionary Weaponry and Droknar's Armor. What happened?

I kept slowing him down and not letting him hit me and piling hexes on him as he walked toward me. At the start of the battle I was putting down Blood Wells to heal myself from our dead teamates.

After about 5 minutes he Immagine Burdened me and then put Phantasmal or whatever that -5 degen spell is. I didn't have enough time or energy regen to counter it and I died.

Was it his Elite skill cap or his armor that won him that battle or my lack of such things? Not at all. We had a battle of skill and in the end he got me with pre-searing spells.

But... if you had been level 10 in ascalon and that same mesmer was fighting you (but they were level 10 or lower, obviously).... would THAT be fair?

it's not fair in Yak's either.

And, perhaps you didn't mind the one-on-one - but what about your dead teammates lying around? Think they didn't mind getting pummeled by IW, only to watch you lose to Phantasm?

Touche'!!
Game - Set - Match!!!

Truthbaron? I find your story dubious, at best.
First, Sofi is right; just because he didn't hit you with IW doesn't mean that it didn't affect you or didn't effect the reasons for you losing. Take away that Me/W and you might have had a win!

But he did hit you, didn't he? Blood wells are AOE and static. While you were slowed down and he was slowed down, do you mean to tell us that you remained in a slow waltz dancing around in your well and somehow avoiding any blows or contact?
That you were running and avoiding him is fairly obvious from your post as well.
Why? You seem to indicate that it was an equal battle of skills, but if that were the case, why did you run for five minutes?

I'll tell you why you ran: IW!

Being pwnd is bad.
Being pwnd and not even knowing may be better!
As they say, "..ignorance is bliss!"

/sign't

lol. talk about bringing a post back from the dead.

if you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen
seriously, why cry about people using elites and having max armor in ascalon/yaks arena? just dont fight in them, if you really want to pvp so bad make a pvp only char and fight in CA/TA/tombs/GvG and leave the newb arenas to the newbs

you think YOU have it bad? i did ascalon arena, lvl 10 warrior comes and uses eviscerate on me... of course, i used defy pain then, so he was screwed...

i've seen even HUNDRED BLADES in ascalon... HELLO PPL, that's THE HARDEST ELITE TO GET IN THE GAME HERE!!!

Well after reading the quite gobsmacking post in the Mesmer builds section that was locked and linked to here thought I'd push this up.

Something has to be done about this. Introduce level and armour/weapon limits for entry into the low level arenas (note: arenas, not the same as limiting PvE in general).

Everyone with any sense, especially PvP players should be supporting this. Why? Quite simple really.

Twinked person(s) come along fresh from droknar with high level spells/skills and an elite, and top weapons. Sure, they might think they are having a great time wiping out newcomers who are trying PvP for the first time.

Win 30 rounds in a row? Great for them maybe? Now worst case scenario that's 4 people from the other side who just got beaten in a completely unfair unwinnable fight. 30 x 4. 120 people who might never play PvP again because of this, worst case. What's more important to the future of your game? a few people who have ego problems and need to beat up others using unfair advantages, or a larger number of people who will have been put off PvP for good, possibly even Guild Wars the game... and this is happening every day.

BBoy_Manchild - as I have said earlier in this thread, telling people to just NOT play in the arenas because others have bad sportsmanship isn't really a helpful suggestion, is it? If you have to get your kicks by beating people in an unfair match, that says a lot about you. Also, in my opinion, creating a PvE character and working through the game with it can only make you a better PvPer - you learn your skills well.

Xenrath - nicely put. The point of the low level arenas is to introduce new PvE players to PvP. Quite honestly, it turns a lot of people off the game (or at least PvP). It's not only that these people bring top armor and skills into low-level arenas, it's also the attitude they bring. Many of them are rude and childish.

If you are unable to get somewhere yourself, you shouldn't be there. If you are unable to get something yourself, you shouldn't have it. Applying this to Ascalon and Yak's arenas - there is no way you can have an elite skill legitamitely and be under level 10 and *maybe* be level 17 with one elite (from the desert missions).

The whole point of the arenas is to learn PvP - and that's impossible if you have some idiots with twinked characters killing you before you even had a chance to learn.

Lol are people still whinning about this? I remember when I started my thread oh 4 or 5 months ago on this very subject and it got lots of agreements, but, Gaile or one of the devs just smack dab came into the thread and said they "support" running through the content. Imagine that, they support people having High level armor in newbie arenas. I was appauled, but, once they said it, there was nothing left to do but move on.

Two things they should enforce is level limits on armor upgrades and locking Droknars and ascending to people lvl 16 or over. But, they ain't gonna do that so, no use in still whinning about it people. They wouldn't budge then and I don't suspect they will budge now.

Thing is looking at Diablo games and this game is Diablolike and also Dungeon Siegelike, I never saw a level 3 or even 10 that could move onto the final chapters or past the end of the game with their characters without playing the content through. I guess there were some that leeched exp and through the content though with people letting them stand way back while they pounced through it. Never played the multiplayer portion of the game so don't really know, don't really care. It's something that should be stopped though for the sake of all.

While I personally don't agree with people getting ran, that's not what this thread is about. I understand that GW devs "support" running - my problem is people using this extreme advantage to really just ruin other people's fun.

There was a fansite friday a while back (about the time of this thread, originally) that said they would consider placing limits on it if it became too much of a problem.

I wonder when that will be...

oh well :-\

While the devs might not have a problem with people being run through the PvE part of the game (e.g. to get to later parts of the game quicker) I'm pretty sure this is not the same as approving of using twinked characters in early arenas. That is called EXPLOITING. Anet have stated they are against solo farming in high level areas, again because that is not how they envisioned the game to be, that's also a form of EXPLOIT. Please don't call people whiners who have very legitimate concerns.

Gah, you people need some cheese, you're drowning in whine.

You wanna talk unfairness? Fine, let's talk. Guild Wars is one of, if
not THE MOST PvP friendly MMO's out there. You wanna talk BS arena
experiences? Try doing Realm Vs Realm in Dark Age of Camelot, or War
of Emperium in Ragnarok Online. 5 seconds after a match starts in DAoC,
the entire team is dead from a stealther who sneaks up and hits you for
4,000+. And iRO PvP is just a shitfest. You can take over 30K in damage
before you have a chance to react.

And then there's the cost of participating in such events. (Read: Gear,
gear, gear, weaps) Many high end items in other games run in the millions.
MILLIONS. You can spend many millions of game currency just to be killed
in seconds regardless. Droknars is usually 10k after components and crafting,
a Signet of Capture is maxed at 1k. Chump. Change.

And instead of screaming nerf this nerf that LOOK AT MY THREAD ANET
BUMP BUMP LOLZ!!!!ONEONESHIFTELEVEN, try using what you have at
your disposal. Hundred Blades hits everything adjacent to you twice. Gee,
that's just a giant Empathy-fest wating to happen..and when do you have
access to this spell? Oh, lesee.....pre-searing. The difference between a
casual player and a serious player isn't what you're wearing or wielding.
It's defined when you can either give up and whine for the powers to be
to change something you don't like, or to step up to the challenge and try
to find a way to beat the problem. It's doable. So utterly doable. And nothin
ruins the day of a Drok armored warrior in Ascalon arena more than being
taken down by someone using only what they'd normally have access to.

Take it from someone who's shopped around for a good MMO to stick with:
if the biggest thing you have to worry about is some meatsack with 100 AC
and Hundred Blades, then you're spoiled.

/un-signed
/umbumped
/saged
/stop whining already

First and foremost, there is no need to be so rude.

Second, this isn't those other games so what does that have to do with it? I've not played those other games and I probably never will. This is about Guild Wars.

And you're right - emapthy vs. hundred blades would certainly work, as would many other things for many other elites that you just may happen to encounter there. Woo hoo, no one ever said there wasn't a way to beat it.

The point is, speaking for guild wars only, this ruins the fun for new players. Sure, it may be worse in other games, but who cares?

The low level arenas are an introduction to the PvP content for those who start out as PvE players. The only introduction you get is to a bunch of immature, pathetic idiots who are out to ruin everyone else's day. Not only do these players "twink" their characters, they're usually rude and volatile people.

The only arguments for NOT trying to remedy this are:
"Shut up, you're whining."
"If you can't beat them, join them."
"It's worse in other games, so deal with it."

Here's an idea... bring something better to the table.

Oh, and...I do believe this thread has been rather mature and discussion oriented until this point. No one has screamed nerf. Don't belittle, it's not nice.

Well I'll spare the retaliatory remark about saying not to be rude and
ending with a statement like that, so lesee:

The comment was made due to the fact that people were doing little more than
bumping and resurrecting an old thread with one or two words, adding nothing to
the topic at hand. Which isn't as mature as you'd like to make it out to be.

Speaking for GUILD WARS only...

I agree with you partially, the lower level arenas are good (or used to be)
good places to get your feet wet going up against other players. But the
system in place for these areas is easily abusable. Trying to put skill restrictions
and such on them will only create further loopholes.

You are correct in your statement that most people who exploit these areas
are total asshats. But to assume you're not going to run into 'immature,
pathetic idiots' on an online game is ignorance in itself. They've been a staple
since the beginning. To think that your idea will rid the game of these people
is arrogance, nothing more.

Here's the problem. Guild Wars USED to be a good game. Skills had the power
and combo potential necessary to go where you want and have fun. Then
Anet stepped in the first time. And some people liked it, and some didn't,
that's not the point. The point is it made the spark. Pretty soon something
else was used that some people didn't like. And again, the powers that be
intervened. And so on, and so on, and so on. Pretty soon PvP is pretty much
a moot point in ANY arena because anytime someone tries to create a new
build or way to win, people complain and it gets shitholed. (stemming outside
of GW for a sec) This game is unique in one aspect, the admin does a lot
more to it based on player feedback than ANY other MMO out there. This can
be good, or this can be bad. It depends on the player base. Which is
composed of 'immature, pathetic idiots,' as you said. Therefore a good game
gets nerfed and changed until it's little more than a shiny package with crap
in it.

I'm not saying don't voice your opinions about something of this nature, but
don't expect the powers that be to completely overhaul such a miniscule part
of the game to please people. Then again, with this game, they just might.

Oh, and I never said 'if you can't beat em, join em.' Try not to put words
into other people's mouths.

I didn't say you said "can't beat em, join em" - that was in reference to earlier in the thread. And yes, I most certainly expected to meat immature people online, would be rather naive of me not to.

You're right, the more the devs do, the more GW seems to be declining. More people whining, etc. I joined the game after it had been out for a few months, I don't know how it was exactly at first.

As of right now, I've played a lot more, tried my hand at the non-random arena (just a bit, going with guildies again later), tried GvG (love it). I am finally getting into PvP more and understanding more than I did back when this thread was started. This thread is rather old and was, for some reason, resurrected.

I still feel the low-level arenas are pointless, as they are now. It's just so frustrating to play in there and especially as a new player. I dont' know that it should be fixed or that any of the suggestions made in this thread previously would work. Really, the elites and armor can be countered, I think now the general atmosphere of those arenas is just beyond help.

You're right, trying to counter people with elites may be quite fun. I think I might have to take my lil baby mesmer into Ascalon arena. Backfire, empathy, some self heals, conjure phantasm. Hmm........

I have heard GW has one of the best PvP systems out there, and simply hope it stays this way. With new players first meeting "asshats" (that word amuses me) in PvP - there must be concerns about maintaining PvP player base.

You're right about that last comment, my apologies. I simply resented the implication that this thread was all about "whining" and "screaming for nerfs" and nevermind that "leet" speak crap.

No it won't. Empathy triggers when the warrior attacks (like cyclone axe), not on hits. Only Insidious Parasite can do that.
Hundred Blades is one of the more powerful Elite Attack skill, no doubt.
Saying you can overcome it easily (as well as Droks armor), with only pre-searing skills is complete bullshit.
Like PoisonArrow! In Ascalon, there is NOTHING to get rid of it until yak's Bend. So again ,it is unfair advantage.
I have my own recipes to destroy noob Twinkers, I know what to do (and I pawned several Twinker's butt with "normal" secondary characters). But when you fall upon 4 of them in Droks Armors and Elite skill, it is simply undoable, whatever strategy/skills you have.
When you were facing only 1, or 2 of them in a team, okay.
But now it has become so twisted that a complete team of Twinkers is common.

/signed.

PS: Stop whining about whining. There is no whining here, only a problem to be fixed.

"Guild Wars USED to be a good game" kind of says it all, please don't come into threads using flamebait material like saying everyone who has a valid complaint about an obvious abuse of the system is whining. Unless... you happen to be one of the people who exploit the situation? You're not are you? If GW isn't so good for you anymore, you've no reason to put down other people who still like the game and want to see some things fixed/improved upon.

If you raise the montly fee to $50 a month I betcha would get rid of a lot of asshats. Whiners too.

The problem has always been the high armor class level in the low level arenas. So, I still say if you eliminate the source (Southern Shiverpeaks) you eliminate most of the problems. Lockdown beacons perch southern door. If people are going to run then they have to take a much longer road and path, through the desert and through ascension and by requiring one to be lvl 16 to ascend, you eliminate droknars armor in the lower level arenas.

By locking down Southern Shiverpeaks until lvl 16+ they also have no access to the best ELITES in the game either since these come in Hell and Mineral Springs and Southern Shiverpeaks.

Now, for people that don't want to have to play through the content again and again when a character is created a popup window asks them do you want to play through the content? Yes or No? If they answer NO then they are not allowed into any of the lower level arenas, but, they can be run through the content even ascension and they will not affect any of the players that wish to play the content and have fair advantages in the lower level arenas.
This eliminates that old excuse that "I don't want to have to play through the content with every character I play", which many times is just a lie to mean I don't want to play through the content I want to get elite armor and elite skills and go kick some noob butt in the lower level arenas and laugh at them and say pwned. hahaha

If they answer YES to playing through the content, then a flag is set to lvl16 for ascention and beacons perch southern door is blocked. Problem solved.

i get run to droks so i NEVER have to get new armor later in the game. (Ok, FoW or 15K armor...)

About the elite, Life transfer PWNS... that SO sux... they should nerf it at low lvl's... instead of 6 at a low lvl, it should be like 2, or 3...

Red, that idea sucks. what about people like me that didn't like kryta? close the door to lornars from beacons? that's the DUMBIST solution i have ever heard. don't mean to flame or anything, but heck, that'd screw about EVERYTHING. life barrier/defy pain would be THE hardest skills to cap...

they should put a AL cap for each profession in the arena. the max you can get in the city would be more balenced... (55 for warriors, 30 for casters, 40 for rangers)

And this helps the discussion how exactly?

I'm sorry for the way yall feel but I'm one of those guys who does that. I have a LvL 10 SS necro. He has droks armor and Villnars staff. Apart from SS he has all pre-seaing skills except for some in Sardelac. My SS only does 15 dmg. So the point I'm trying to make is at a low lvl these higher lvl skills aren't as affective the only true addvantage I have is the armor but I only got the armor because everyone else had it and I wanted to do a low lvl arena cause I'm tired of the high lvl ones.

That is a retarded argument, the damage your SS does is proportional to the amount of health people at that level have. It is STILL a fairly powerfull elite that you shouldn't be using in Ascalon arena.

"If you can't beat em, join em?" I prefer the good old "two wrongs don't make a right".

You find it too difficult to win in the high level arena where you don't have an unfair advantage over the other players? Well.. sorry but that isn't what this game is about.

People using 'twinked' characters in Ascalon arena has completely ruined it. It was never that great to begin with, but now it is just unplayable. PvP is about balance, and this arena is an example of extreme imbalance. Winning there with droks armor and elites is nothing to be proud of, infact you should be very dissapointed if you ever actually lose.