Knight armor AL increase
Judas Paladin
.....i can't help but notice the date on which that was posted.
LifeInfusion
I'm getting collector's armor to retest (it has the 80+20 vs. physical). My argument for higher AL still stands.
-2 recieved still isn't as good as 5-10AL more. It is like wearing a 5 or 11 defense shield with -2 recieved , instead of a 16 defense with no mods.
EDIT:
Against a physical elemental attack as Aftershock, swapping out knight's for collector's (which has the same stats as gladiator's but no additional energy) did not affect the damage.
-2 recieved still isn't as good as 5-10AL more. It is like wearing a 5 or 11 defense shield with -2 recieved , instead of a 16 defense with no mods.
EDIT:
Against a physical elemental attack as Aftershock, swapping out knight's for collector's (which has the same stats as gladiator's but no additional energy) did not affect the damage.
Theos
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Originally Posted by zehly
So you are saying that we need tanks with better armor? Like, in PvP, when I'm a lowly Ele with a sword, I have to wait longer for the bastard to die? Warriors already get more armor than Mesmers... and mesmers are cooler... and deserve better armor and stuff. So I don't agree with this petition for other reasons that I can't explain because I'm under the influence.
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It looks cool.On Topic: The knights armour needs a buff, it is truly the shaft of armours (including its cooler twin the Ascalon Armour). I like the idea of increasing its defense bonus per piece, so go to +20 or something. Though it will still see little use in PvP since Glads is far superior with the energy bonus.
Red Sonya
Yeah if they made Knights armor with the +20 AL without energy that would work and fixed if it's not already fixed each piece being needed to get the dmg reduction for that area of defense. This global dmg reduction for just wearing one piece just doesn't seem right for the armor. No one in their right mind would ever use a complete set of Ascalon/Knights as it is now if only one piece is required to get the global dmg reduction. But, as individual defensive per area hit and adding +20 AL to it would make it a more viable choice for those that aren't into being smiters and such that require 25 energy to cast. As it stands now though with superior rune of absorption and one piece of ascalons/knights and a shield one is preventing 7 dmg per strike on them. If they fixed it right, then gladiators (w/shield) would only be getting 5 dmg reduction per strike and knights would be getting the 7 dmg per strike reduction. But, gladiators (w/shield) would have more energy and that seems fair enough to me. It gives them basically 1-1/2 more skills to use at 5pt energy costs, so the dmg from that would compensate for the 7 dmg reduction of the complete set of Knights armor if it worked correctly. Thought it might overpower knights vs platemal wearers then and then there would be a cry from platemale wearers cause they would have the least melee defense although they have the best elemental defense.
It's easy to see though that Gladiators is the best melee armor though. It's really not AL that makes the Gladiators gear a better choice, it's the fact that a Gladiator can maneuver better than someone in plate because of the weight of the armor. They needed to add a dexterity modifier to armor to make it more understandable why one is better than another in melee. But, Knights/Ascalon definitely needs some work.
It's easy to see though that Gladiators is the best melee armor though. It's really not AL that makes the Gladiators gear a better choice, it's the fact that a Gladiator can maneuver better than someone in plate because of the weight of the armor. They needed to add a dexterity modifier to armor to make it more understandable why one is better than another in melee. But, Knights/Ascalon definitely needs some work.
00039
I think they should modify the defense of the 3 armor sets to something like....
75 Base Armor for glads since they wear less armor after all and the energy should come with a price
Knight, Ascalon, plate, and wyvern's 10 Armor vs. Physical should be increased to 15ish to balance it out a bit
75 Base Armor for glads since they wear less armor after all and the energy should come with a price
Knight, Ascalon, plate, and wyvern's 10 Armor vs. Physical should be increased to 15ish to balance it out a bit
Amand
Less armour doesn't equate in worse protection, it improves speed/agility and that often won vs. fully iron/plate-clad if we remember the light-armoured Mongols vs. heavy Western Knights in the medieval period. In Guild Wars we do not encounter heavy arrow showers or massive "bombardment" by slingers. A man-high Tower Shield doesn't protect better than the ornate buckler as it did in reality (against projectiles). However I can agree in a sense that platemail looks too robust to be inferior than gladiator's but armour is not everything in battle as history often proved.
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Though it might overpower knights vs platemal wearers then and then there would be a cry from platemale wearers cause they would have the least melee defense although they have the best elemental defense.
It's easy to see though that Gladiators is the best melee armor though. It's really not AL that makes the Gladiators gear a better choice, it's the fact that a Gladiator can maneuver better than someone in plate because of the weight of the armor. |
They don't need a dex modifier. The "dex" is the energy
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Originally Posted by 00039
75 Base Armor for glads since they wear less armor after all and the energy should come with a price
Knight, Ascalon, plate, and wyvern's 10 Armor vs. Physical should be increased to 15ish to balance it out a bit |
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Originally Posted by Amand
Less armour doesn't equate in worse protection, it improves speed/agility and that often won vs. fully iron/plate-clad if we remember the light-armoured Mongols vs. heavy Western Knights in the medieval period. In Guild Wars we do not encounter heavy arrow showers or massive "bombardment" by slingers.
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Mongols won because of their horses and marksmanship. Medieval knights wore full platemail and had hand to hand combat or horses for JOUSTING. They did not use bows.
Age
Would this be any good as a combo.I have set of Knights armor both top and bottom with a minor runes of absorb both on top and bottom.I am planning on getting gladiator boots and guanlets and a Knights helemt.What do you think of this set up or would a better helmet be better I don't like platemail very much atleast not the male version and this for a female player?What are you suggestions?
Dzan
Absorbtion runes don't stack and neither does the Knight's bonus.
If you have one minor absorbtion, it covers your whole body. If you have one piece of knights it covers your whole body.
If you have one minor absorbtion, it covers your whole body. If you have one piece of knights it covers your whole body.
Ristaron
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Originally Posted by Age
[...] I still like ringmail btw [...] .
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Ringmail makes your character bow-legged and barrel-chested, the typical pub-addicted village a**hole. It is possibly the worst looking armour I have ever seen.
Amand
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Siege Wurms. Wurms in general. Things that bite. Tell me a full suit of knight/plate is going to be worse off (practically) in Guild Wars, not history. Two leather straps is not going to protect your abdomen from a animal bite. Chain mail like collector's might.
Mongols won because of their horses and marksmanship. Medieval knights wore full platemail and had hand to hand combat or horses for JOUSTING. They did not use bows. |
Next time please quote the whole posting, not dismember it and leave out a crucial part. As I said I agree that platemail looks too robust to be inferior to Gladiator's.
Age
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Originally Posted by Dzan
Absorbtion runes don't stack and neither does the Knight's bonus.
If you have one minor absorbtion, it covers your whole body. If you have one piece of knights it covers your whole body. |
btw to Ristaron don't lose all respect for me ringmail looks nice in pre and around ascalon.
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by Ristaron
All respect I had for you is now gone.
Ringmail makes your character bow-legged and barrel-chested, the typical pub-addicted village a**hole. It is possibly the worst looking armour I have ever seen. |
Back on topic. You people are going off on a tangent.
Gerbill
mk.. I've read this.. still a few questions just to make sure.
- if you have a knights piece, it has global reduction, equal to major absorbtion ?
- if you also put a rune on a piece does it stack with the one knights armor piece ?
is Gladiators just the way to go or is platemail worth it slightly ?
- if you have a knights piece, it has global reduction, equal to major absorbtion ?
- if you also put a rune on a piece does it stack with the one knights armor piece ?
is Gladiators just the way to go or is platemail worth it slightly ?
LifeInfusion
gladiator's if you use sword or need energy
platemail for high elemental resistance
gladiator for high physical resistance
one knight's piece = major absorbtion.
platemail for high elemental resistance
gladiator for high physical resistance
one knight's piece = major absorbtion.
BigTru
It's probably been said in this thread before, but I definitaly think they should make it non-universal per piece.
Weezer_Blue
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Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
All forms of "Damage Absorption" are locational, not 'Universal".
i.e: If you put a Superior Absorption Rune to a Knights Chest Armor piece, you will get a -2-3 total -5 damage reduced when the hits landed on your chest. |
All absorbtion effects, including those of Knight's and Ascalon armour are universal, and do not stack with themselves.
Seissor
So with knights armor being soo pffft,I chucked it all for gladiator (15k goodness) but kept two pieces of knights armor on my char, so -2 reduction in dmg, or still -1 Cuz iff -1 reduction my char is getting some new 15k glad boots.
a_scrawny_gnoll01
Correct me if I am wrong, but one piece of Knights (regardless of slot) is -2 reduction? I can check this whole debate tomorrow when I have access to my PC. Anyways, as it has been said and some people seem to be confused, only one piece of "Knights" is required for this -2? damage reduction. Then you add a superior rune (again, like "Knights", is universal reduction, and can be put wherever) of absorbtion for another 5? I'm not sure on numbers, as I haven't been on my W/Nec in a little while. Someone just clarify the reduction numbers for me or I can post them tomorrow evening after I do some checking.
Basic Equipment set:
Glads Chest/Legs for mana
Knights boots (less chance to be hit) for -2? reduction
Glads Gloves / Stonefist gloves (for mana, or knockdown, however you play)
Then your weapon helmet mod
Anyone who wears full Knights is at a severe disadvantage (for the sake of redundance, I will not explain), and should only be doing so because they like the "look" or "feel" of a "harder" armor to play in. If they wear it in assumption that -damage stacks, or that the -damage is not universal, then they need to be told otherwise and ridiculed for their ignorance.
This is to clarify for anyone who is confused as to why "Knights" armor is obsolete when compared to the other sets that are out there.
FYI, I actually prefer to wear Knights when I PvE, just because of the extra challenge it provides. I don't like the fact that almost every player in this game has to follow a strict cookie-cutter character sheet in order to be effective. Challenge is lacking in this game, as is ingenuity. Whenever a new build comes out, everyone runs it until a new one is discovered, and they jump on that bandwagon.
But of course, I would not be caught dead in PvP with full Knights. For obvious reasons.
A little off topic on the last tid-bit there, but oh well.
Basic Equipment set:
Glads Chest/Legs for mana
Knights boots (less chance to be hit) for -2? reduction
Glads Gloves / Stonefist gloves (for mana, or knockdown, however you play)
Then your weapon helmet mod
Anyone who wears full Knights is at a severe disadvantage (for the sake of redundance, I will not explain), and should only be doing so because they like the "look" or "feel" of a "harder" armor to play in. If they wear it in assumption that -damage stacks, or that the -damage is not universal, then they need to be told otherwise and ridiculed for their ignorance.
This is to clarify for anyone who is confused as to why "Knights" armor is obsolete when compared to the other sets that are out there.
FYI, I actually prefer to wear Knights when I PvE, just because of the extra challenge it provides. I don't like the fact that almost every player in this game has to follow a strict cookie-cutter character sheet in order to be effective. Challenge is lacking in this game, as is ingenuity. Whenever a new build comes out, everyone runs it until a new one is discovered, and they jump on that bandwagon.
But of course, I would not be caught dead in PvP with full Knights. For obvious reasons.
A little off topic on the last tid-bit there, but oh well.
medikamen
it sucks that the different pieces of knight armor don't stack, what's the point in having the whole set???
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by medikamen
it sucks that the different pieces of knight armor don't stack, what's the point in having the whole set???
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00039
I was talking to some people ingame about this and we came up witht he idea of giving glads vs. elemental defense instead of vs. physical to balance it out
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by 00039
I was talking to some people ingame about this and we came up witht he idea of giving glads vs. elemental defense instead of vs. physical to balance it out
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Blkout
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Originally Posted by Ristaron
All respect I had for you is now gone.
Ringmail makes your character bow-legged and barrel-chested, the typical pub-addicted village a**hole. It is possibly the worst looking armour I have ever seen. |
Ensign
Assuming that Knight's actually worked the way it was supposed to, it would generally be better than Platemail on any build that used a shield, and worse on builds that did not use shields.
Which one is better depends on the average damage dealt with each armor-using hit. The larger the size of each hit, the better Platemail is. The break points where Platemail becomes better are at 35 damage elemental hits, 41 damage physical hits, 45 damage elemental hits when using a shield, and 54 damage physical hits while using a shield.
The more armor bonuses you stack, the better Knight's becomes.
In general Knights would perform better than Platemail against physical attackers, but worse against spellcasters. Again, assuming that the Knight's / Ascalon bonus was actually location specific.
Of course all of this is moot as long as Gladiator's Armor exists, as that set just steamrolls all of the other options. You could take off the +20 defense vs. Physical, and it'd still be the PvP armor of choice.
Peace,
-CxE
Which one is better depends on the average damage dealt with each armor-using hit. The larger the size of each hit, the better Platemail is. The break points where Platemail becomes better are at 35 damage elemental hits, 41 damage physical hits, 45 damage elemental hits when using a shield, and 54 damage physical hits while using a shield.
The more armor bonuses you stack, the better Knight's becomes.
In general Knights would perform better than Platemail against physical attackers, but worse against spellcasters. Again, assuming that the Knight's / Ascalon bonus was actually location specific.
Of course all of this is moot as long as Gladiator's Armor exists, as that set just steamrolls all of the other options. You could take off the +20 defense vs. Physical, and it'd still be the PvP armor of choice.
Peace,
-CxE
Blkout
Yea, the warrior's armor is the only character that isn't balanced. Every other profession's armor has balance between the different sets. Not really sure how Anet let this one slip by seeing how they did such a wonderful job with everything else.
BigTru
Yep, I'd say either make it hit-location or make it stack.
LifeInfusion
I think if they made it stack it would be overly powerful. Rather they should make it location based not blanket.
5 X -2 = -10 damage. And 80AL+ is pretty much, so it would be even better than platemail, ESPECIALLY when you have buffs like "Watch Yourself", "Shield Stance", or any enchantment with +AL ...
On the other hand, +20 AL to physical instead of +10AL vs physical would balance it more.
5 X -2 = -10 damage. And 80AL+ is pretty much, so it would be even better than platemail, ESPECIALLY when you have buffs like "Watch Yourself", "Shield Stance", or any enchantment with +AL ...
On the other hand, +20 AL to physical instead of +10AL vs physical would balance it more.
BigTru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
I think if they made it stack it would be overly powerful. Rather they should make it location based not blanket.
5 X -2 = -10 damage. And 80AL+ is pretty much, so it would be even better than platemail, ESPECIALLY when you have buffs like "Watch Yourself", "Shield Stance", or any enchantment with +AL ... On the other hand, +20 AL to physical instead of +10AL vs physical would balance it more. |
But yeah, I do prefer location based. Either way, something should be done.
Rancour
Well, why don't you just combine some of the armors?
There's no need to use a complete set unless you're especially fond of that.
At the moment I use full Platemail set untill I get to the point where a have alot of gold and other stuff to get the armor I really want.
In my case, the plan is to get:
Chest: Gladiators, 15K
Helm: Ascalon, 15K
Gauntlets: Knights, highest possible (is there a 15K version)
Boots: Dragon
Leggings: Plate
You might be asking yourself why on earth I plan on using almost all the armors in the game, including the useless Ascalon helm. Let me explain.
The Ascalon helm I use because it's the coolest by a long shot. It may have a useless +1 to Tactics mod but if anything, it'll give me more healing with Healing Signet.
I use Gladiators because I need the energy and in my opinion a bare chest looks cool in this game. The gauntlets I pick because of the absorb and the cool spikes, while I pick the leggings and boots for looks and armor.
If I get all this at some point, I'm gonna dye it all silver. Cool, distictive and useful.
There's no need to use a complete set unless you're especially fond of that.
At the moment I use full Platemail set untill I get to the point where a have alot of gold and other stuff to get the armor I really want.
In my case, the plan is to get:
Chest: Gladiators, 15K
Helm: Ascalon, 15K
Gauntlets: Knights, highest possible (is there a 15K version)
Boots: Dragon
Leggings: Plate
You might be asking yourself why on earth I plan on using almost all the armors in the game, including the useless Ascalon helm. Let me explain.
The Ascalon helm I use because it's the coolest by a long shot. It may have a useless +1 to Tactics mod but if anything, it'll give me more healing with Healing Signet.
I use Gladiators because I need the energy and in my opinion a bare chest looks cool in this game. The gauntlets I pick because of the absorb and the cool spikes, while I pick the leggings and boots for looks and armor.
If I get all this at some point, I'm gonna dye it all silver. Cool, distictive and useful.
BigTru
The point is that you get a benefit from wearing a full set of armor for every type, except for Knight's/Ascalon (example: You will have the most energy with full set of Gladiator's, you will have highest Elemental Defence with Platemail/Wyvern, etc, etc.)
AtomicNoVa
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Originally Posted by a_scrawny_gnoll01
If they wear it in assumption that -damage stacks, or that the -damage is not universal, then they need to be told otherwise and ridiculed for their ignorance.
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The description of the armor does lend itself to be understood that way.
Now if someone told them this and they still used the armor thinking it did what it did not. Then I could understand.
Not ment to be offensive.
Age
I have my PVE Warrior set up this way now.I have Knights top and bottom with gladiator goutlets,boots and halmet I do need to upgrade my halmet.What do you suggest in halmets?I have runes of major absorbtion in the top piece and major vigor in bottom pieceo of knights.I have strengh in my boots and tactic in guantlets and halmet.how does this set up look to you?Thanks
I never see Wyvern used that much.I meant chainmail not ring the first set you get in pre.
I never see Wyvern used that much.I meant chainmail not ring the first set you get in pre.
Warlord Teriel
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Originally Posted by Gerbill
- if you also put a rune on a piece does it stack with the one knights armor piece ?
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Date: 9/11/2005
Place: Nebo Terrace (Just outside Beetletun)
Attacking Foe(s): Mergoyles
Gear: Full Dragon Armor: AL85 (+10 vs Physical)
Shield: No Shield
Knights Boots (For Switch): AL80 (+10 vs Physical)
Platemail Chest (For Switch): AL85 (+10 vs Physical)
Rune: Warrior Rune of Major Absorbtion (In Dragon Chest)
What I Did:
Starting from Beetletun I ran to the first 2 Mergoyles. Stand there while wearing Full Dragon armor with major absorb rune in chest and let them attack me. While facing them I took the following damage.
-1, 0, -1, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, -1, -1, 0, -1, -1, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, -1, 0, 0.
I switched out my Dragon Boots for Knights Boots and then the damage was the following (while still using all other dragon armor with major absorb in chest still).
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0.
Now I switched to the Platemail Chest with Knights Boots still on (No Absorb Rune at all)
-2, 0, 0, 0, -2, -2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -1, -2, -2, 0, 0, 0, 0, -2, 0, 0, -2, -2, 0, 0, 0, 0, -2, 0, 0, 0, -2, 0, 0, -2, -2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, -2, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0, 0.
Platemail Chest and all other dragon armor (no rune, no knights)
-3, -2, -2, -2, -3, -3, -2, -2, -2, -2, -3, -2, -2, -2, -4, -2, -2, -2, -3, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -3, -3, -3, -2, -3, -2, -2, -3, -4, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -3, -2, -3, -2, -2, -2, -2, -2, -3, -3, -3, -2.
I only did this test while taking 50 hits each but I really didnt see a reason to go any further. This should show that you can have 1 knights or ascalon AND 1 absorb rune and they will work together.
I hope this is enough to please those with that question. So every War should have 1 piece of Knights/Ascalon, whatever armor you want and an Absorb Rune in whatever piece of armor you want.
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by Rancour
You might be asking yourself why on earth I plan on using almost all the armors in the game, including the useless Ascalon helm. Let me explain. The Ascalon helm I use because it's the coolest by a long shot. It may have a useless +1 to Tactics mod but if anything, it'll give me more healing with Healing Signet.
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The knights armour does need an overhaul, that much is obvious. Giving it elemental protection would be way too good IMO. As it stands now, there are few warriors I've encountered in PvP that can hit me for more damage than an elementalist. Give that knights armour AL+ against elemental and they'll be nothing stopping a warrior.
If you decided to make it so gladiators didn't have the +20 vs. physical, it wouldn't make that much of a difference anyway as far as PvP is concerned. Warriors are the last target on the list, so they wouldn't need all that protection anyway.
BigTru
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
The useless Ascalon helm? The useless +1 tactics? Stances should be an any warriors skillbar if they plan on being the main body shield in the level 24+ mobs you find in the harder areas of the game.
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LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by BigTru
Off-topic, but the +1 Tactics is near useless for PvP becuase Tactics is so lackluster =/
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BUMP
"Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack."
http://manual.guildwars.com/combat/w...armor-faq.html
They lie.
BigTru
Wow. You're right. Either they lied or they don't know that the damage reduction isn't location based o_o
Nice find, LifeInfusion
Nice find, LifeInfusion
BigTru
Alright, I decided it was pointless sitting around and arguing if it was intended or not, so I decided to message Gaile on this matter. (Hope she doesn't mind if I share this; it was a private message afterall. 
)
And here is what she had to say:
)Quote:
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Originally Posted by BigTru
Hello Gaile.
I have a question conscerning Armor Stacking and decided to go straight to the source and ask. The official Website's Online manual says that Damage Reduction on armor does not stack. "Armor with extra damage-absorption will absorb damage from attacks to a specific area of the body, so in that sense, it doesn't stack." From: http://manual.guildwars.com/combat/...-armor-faq.html However, various tests have been done on the Warrior's "Knight's" armor and "Ascalon" armor proving that the damage-absorption is not area specific and that it is instead universal. That is to say, you only need one piece of the armor, which can be located anywhere on your body, and still get the benefits of the armor's damage reduction. For example, I can put a piece of "Knight's" armor on my hands while wearing Gladiator's armor on my Chest, Feet, Legs, and Head. If I'm hit in my chest by an attack, I still get the damage reduction on my chest from the hands. My question is, was this intended? Is this something that A.Net is currently adressing, or is it simply a typo on their Online-Manual? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I believe it's true, and that it is unintended. I've asked for confirmation of both, and an update to the OLM to reflect the current state of this.
Thanks, Gaile |
Detis Zan
Oi so I'm stupid..
Hands-Platemail
Feet-Platemail
Legs-Knights
Chest-Knights
Helmet-Knight's +1 strength.
This is a PvE Chacter I recently made and rushed to drok and bought all of this. So that means I bought the wrong combo of armor?
Also I have a minor absorbtion rune on the chest. So I get the -2 universal from one or the other two pieces I have (So basically I wasted a slot). But will the rune not stack since it is minor? So I will only get that -2, and only that -2?
Also what the difference in the runes.. Like is minor -2 but what is major and sup?
Also will this set of armor I have be okay in PvE (Again it's only a lvl 12) until I want to PvP so I would want Gladiator simply because of the obvious with a single piece of Knight/Ascalon.
Also on shields I have one of 15 armor and -1 received dmg (in stance) am I better off with a full shield?
Also the character will be a Axe build.
Hands-Platemail
Feet-Platemail
Legs-Knights
Chest-Knights
Helmet-Knight's +1 strength.
This is a PvE Chacter I recently made and rushed to drok and bought all of this. So that means I bought the wrong combo of armor?
Also I have a minor absorbtion rune on the chest. So I get the -2 universal from one or the other two pieces I have (So basically I wasted a slot). But will the rune not stack since it is minor? So I will only get that -2, and only that -2?
Also what the difference in the runes.. Like is minor -2 but what is major and sup?
Also will this set of armor I have be okay in PvE (Again it's only a lvl 12) until I want to PvP so I would want Gladiator simply because of the obvious with a single piece of Knight/Ascalon.
Also on shields I have one of 15 armor and -1 received dmg (in stance) am I better off with a full shield?
Also the character will be a Axe build.