Nerf pets pls

Third Quarter

Third Quarter

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ectos And Shards [EnS]

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

Pets are hot. We should've won more than twice in a row, but we were beaten by an alright team that knew what they were doing.

knives

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

Nice. I've wanted to try a variant of R/W's w/ this..lets see if my guild thinks its viable... Gj.

Kaelan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

San Jose, CA

Knights Who Say Ni

Me/W

It's scary how well the build works when it works.

Derek Ravenclaw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

Teams think that just because 3 of us drop and they're at 8/8 they're going to win. They could never be more wrong.


Leave us alive: die. Try to kill us: die faster. Death only makes us stronger.

Elena

Elena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Belgium

so pets are considered allies by the avenge you shout ? hehe nice

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

Quote:
Nice. I've wanted to try a variant of R/W's w/ this..lets see if my guild thinks its viable... Gj. I Will Avenge You runs on Strength (the health regen), and with a Ranger that means a lot of damage taken.

One and Two

One and Two

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

cool. do you need to be pve to have a pet?

Cloud Stormrage

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2005

Anybody Killaz

Mo/N

How can you get all those pets killed????????

derrtyboy69

derrtyboy69

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Clouds

Scars Meadows [SMS]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by One and Two
cool. do you need to be pve to have a pet? nope you can an elder wolf with a pvp char

One and Two

One and Two

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

how...is it automatic?

Hippie Crack

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

tjot

R/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud Stormrage
How can you get all those pets killed???????? With so many teams running smite they prolly drop from aoe damage i would assume.

Third Quarter

Third Quarter

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ectos And Shards [EnS]

All eight warriors were equipped with "I Will Avenge You!", a res signet, and various damage things. Most of us had a sprint, one guy had "Charge!", and lots of us had knockdowns. (Backbreaker, Devastating Hammer, and so forth) I think everyone had Irresistible Blow.

Everyone had 16 hammer mastery and at least 10 strength. I think some of us were putting points into beast mastery for Tiger's Fury.

Our general strategy was pretty simple: smash faces.

Seriously.

Everyone was usually picking their own targets, sometimes switching to called targets, though no more than four guys could hit any single target.

Once four pets and/or allies die, everyone activated "I Will Avenge You!" and used their signets to revive allies. Pets were never revived ever.

By this point, most of the team was attacking at an accelerated rate and regenerating health, and usually had their adrenaline all juiced up, at which time the knockdowns kicked into high gear. Most builds completely folded in upon themselves at this point, and the sheer DPS of the build took over.

Smite groups were no exception, much to the surprise of everyone involved. (healing seed is for sissies)

Relic maps were also no exception: we butchered everyone on the map, and had a guy run a relic.

The Hall of Heroes itself was tricky, since we had no way to heal our Ghostly. The solution wound up being straightforward: smash faces. We just DP'd the living hell out of the holding team while the clock ticked.

LightsEternity

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ectos and Shards [EnS]

Mo/Me

it was sad you guys won when I went to make dinner ;-)

nonetheless, we were improving our build for HOH once we started making it there more frequently.

a lot of people that run into this are still completely surprised.

Puddin Tame

Puddin Tame

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Wouldn't you like to know

Pretty Horsies Arouse Greatly

R/

I am so trying this...

Ultimate_Gaara

Ultimate_Gaara

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

BC, Canada.. how aboot that eh?

So many dead animals...

Great picture, you may have introduced the new build.. first there was Spirit Spam, now.. there is Pet Spam, DUN DUN!!!

seraphite86

seraphite86

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Florida

Talk Less More [Sekz]

Rt/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Quarter

Our general strategy was pretty simple: smash faces.

Seriously.

I actually wish most builds we're that simple -_-

Asplode

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

I think the problem with the build may be all these points of failure. What happens with wards. I know with guardian and aegis you can use irresistable blow, but what about evasion, as with wards or evading stances? What about shielding hands or healing seed, builds using bonds, or someone dropping a frozen soil after you allow some allies to die?

Kaelan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

San Jose, CA

Knights Who Say Ni

Me/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asplode
I think the problem with the build may be all these points of failure. What happens with wards. I know with guardian and aegis you can use irresistable blow, but what about evasion, as with wards or evading stances? What about shielding hands or healing seed, builds using bonds, or someone dropping a frozen soil after you allow some allies to die? Well, for the most part, those things were never really a problem, however:

Bonders definitely could be a problem for this build. You'd either just have to maintain pressure on them and hope the bonders fall over, or add some sort of enchant removal to the build (pretty unlikely).

Shielding hands and healing seed, if spread across the whole party, would be an issue. However, the amount of damage we're doing with our attacks means that even if they had both seed and hands up, you'd probably still be able to do consistent damage on a single target or pair of targets.

Wards weren't a huge deal - Irresistable Blow still causes knockdown and a little damage, so if a few people keep spamming it on the warder eventually the ward is going to drop. Also, in most cases you can simply go away from the ward and they'll have to leave it, since you don't have any soft targets. Evading stances are fairly easy to deal with - just bring Wild Blow.

Frozen Soil can be pretty tough, but it really only takes two or three melee attacks to destroy it, so it never really killed us. A very well coordinated party could probably keep Frozen Soil up long enough to easily stop this build, though.

However, the REAL solution to this build is Soothing Images. Drop that on enough of the warriors and they're pretty much useless, because this build is almost entirely built on adrenaline. Sympathetic Visage is also quite effective. An enemy party spiking single warriors one at a time with lightning or something equivalently deadly would probably also work. Empathy and Price of Failure and Spirit of Failure would probably go a long way towards weakening the build as well.

This build *really* shouldn't work, but it does. I'm honestly not quite sure why, but neither I or Third Quarter are the original creators, so maybe the guy who made it up has some ideas. In general, it seemed that the only parties that really presented a problem to us once we got going were ones with flexible builds played by competent players. A smiting-only party was pretty much at a disadvantage, because unless one of us screwed up they couldn't put a dent in us. We encountered a couple parties using Soothing Images and they nearly murdered us, and we only won against them because they made mistakes.

Asplode

Asplode

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Chicago, IL

Rebel Rising [rawr]

See I was going to mention Soothing Images and Sympathetic Visage (Hammers use both adn and energy attacks, after all) but I figured you would have said "Who the hell runs that?" and brushed it off.

As for warders, if I remember the skill right, Irresistable Blow only KD's and does extra damage if the target "blocks" rather than "evades".

Additionally, Irresistablow is only one good hit, even if Aegis/Guardian/Ward is up. Further attacks afterward wouldn't register nearly as often, and as a warrior, spamming energy attacks is definitely not a sustainable option, right? What do you do about being crippled, blinded, weakened, what about faintheartedness and shadow of fear, spirit/price of failure, empathy, insidious parasite, spiteful spirit, or armor of earth?

Well my primary concern is blindness. Of course there is antidote signet, but that's a skill slot and 3 seconds of inactivity, not to mention that it's easily disrupted, and doesn't remedy other nails in the coffin such as weakness and cripple. There are plenty of trapping builds out there making LIBERAL use of dust trap and throw dirt to disable enemy warriors, there are also a few monk builds using spirit of failure and sig of midnight, and countless hexes which a w/r can't take care of.

Third Quarter

Third Quarter

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ectos And Shards [EnS]

The build mainly works because of the current metagame.

Everyone and their mother is running smite, and as such, most denial guys are skewed toward enchant strips and caster shutdown. Groups lost a lot of skill slots simply because they were carrying things that had zero applicability to us.

I think the fact that we had no soft targets was a big contributing factor too. (Kill the monks first, right?)

Asplode, all of those things were problems, but we simply didn't run into groups that used them, or we overwhelmed them. It's hard to keep Soothing Images on 8 warriors all the time, and we only really needed three to drop a target fast.

Also, Irresistable Blow may be only one hit, but we had 8 of them. This was pivotal for killing trappers as well.

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

This is the next Flavour of the Month.

Kampfkeks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

We should try and write the upcoming whine for it before the whiners do that
Nice work there, i've allways tried to do some petbased build but it awfully hard to come by people who are willed to bring those little beasts into pvp for all they can think of is "pet = weak".

But thats a real good use for Avenge. Funny how some folks considered avenge totally useless and underpowered in one of those "warriors too weak" threads

Da Cebuano

Da Cebuano

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Virginia born in Cebu

Jelly Toast[jT]

W/

The best part about this is the literal "no strategy, all worries out the window all about fun" aspect of the build, warrs are so much fun to play, I really hope I get to try this build out sometime w/ my guild. If not, I'll go ask puggers or try to get w/ some people to coordinate it. Being that I'm a hammer enthusiast, I love how an all warr build actually pwns.

knives

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRusty
I Will Avenge You runs on Strength (the health regen), and with a Ranger that means a lot of damage taken. Who ever said I was going ot use I will avenge you? 7x healing springs is good enough for me. Predatory season as well. 2 R/W cyclone apply poison, vim. 5 r/me, mantra of resolve, healing spring, pet attacks. You dont even need mantra if you dont want to take it/put points into that line.

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

Quote:
Who ever said I was going ot use I will avenge you? That was the whole point of the build. That's like saying why would I use attack skills on a Warrior?

BigTru

BigTru

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

If you had a PvE W/R, that build would be even more awesome - you could have level 1 pets that die in a jiffy.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

rofl... I've wanted to do something like this for a long time.

Ultimate_Gaara

Ultimate_Gaara

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

BC, Canada.. how aboot that eh?

So how exactly does the pet system work on a PvP character, do you start with one?

knives

knives

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Grenths Rejects [GR]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRusty
That was the whole point of the build. That's like saying why would I use attack skills on a Warrior?
And I said I wanted to try a variant of this build, I don't want to copy it skill for skill. Obviously if I use R/W's over W/R's defence will be a problem, and obviously the skillsets will be extremely different. If I went Me/E over E/Me and started echoing meteor shower, how do you think that build would turn out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
So how exactly does the pet system work on a PvP character, do you start with one? If you have the Charm Animal skill on your skillbar for a PvP only character you automatically start off with a level 20 elder wolf.

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

Quote:
And I said I wanted to try a variant of this build, I don't want to copy it skill for skill. Flame I wish not to, so talk I shall not. Yoda ftw.

cookiehoarder

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Melbourne, Florida.

[HTR]

That pet build is really fun, but you can't hold halls for any length.

Kyle

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Legends Of Teh Industry [XXX]

LoL i can see it now. Nerfing pets out of PvP or just making i will avenge you totaly useless like they did to other skills. Hillarious tho. I laughed

Third Quarter

Third Quarter

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ectos And Shards [EnS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiehoarder
That pet build is really fun, but you can't hold halls for any length. We held it twice.

ExplosiveBadger

ExplosiveBadger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

MN

E/Mo

Aww, I want to do that. Message me in game if you need an extra person. Looks really fun... Too bad my guild is too stupid do somthing like this. And they made me an officer so I wouldn't leave.

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberRusty
Flame I wish not to, so talk I shall not. Yoda ftw.
woo... pwned... lol

I have wanted to try such similiar for a long time too... but no body in their bloody narrow mind would do this around me... dam to those with narrow mind...

hmm.... have you try this in GvG? LOL although I doubt GvG would be as easy... as team are more well rounded there... I hope?

nicely done...

Personally lv20 pet > lv1... main reason is that if they dont kill the pet the pet do some damage... if they do kill the pet (which with smite... really fast) you get similiar effect in about the same time. HOWEVEr... I would go into PvP anyday with level 1 pet if everyone playing a necro... WOOT easy dead bodies!! Try it with EoE + summon minion + death nova + taste of death + high soul reaping... omfg... AoE Spike Poison Amor Ignoring Damage... and you can put a few well up for healing and strip too... (revive animal > comfort animal)

Krank

Krank

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

W/

Thats the greatest thing... i ever seen

smiters are thinkin "OH hahaha nobs, they have no smiters or moinks!, lets pwn them with our uuber dmg"

cookiehoarder

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Melbourne, Florida.

[HTR]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Quarter
We held it twice. That isn't length

UberRusty

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

amsterdam, where male prostitution is legal

[GGG] Gay Guild Gals

W/R

This is becoming more and more popular. Mark my words, I said this first: "I Will Avenge You" build is going to become the next Flavour of the Month.

Kai Nui

Kai Nui

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Behind you with a knife

Celebrity Gangsters [FamE]

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara
So how exactly does the pet system work on a PvP character, do you start with one? Use summon animal and you'll get an Elder Wolf as a pet.