For those who think Ether Renewal is NOT overpowered

Ether Renewal as prerequisites for its use. First, you need enchantments, and you also need to cast something fast enough in order for it to be of use.

As it seems my post was ignored, or did not warrant comment, I still like to point out that Elementalists can deplete their energy very fast based on spell/energy costs, so for an Elementalist it is very useful spell.

Though it seems that most arguments for the nerf are based on Smiters and enchantments.

If you want to nerf it, nerf it so that the energy return caps out, so that you can't gain massive energy from many enchantments. Have it apply to 3 or 4 enchantments max.

That won't last long.

I play a warrior, and I'll say this as of right now: As a warrior, you are everyone's bitch.

Blind, disease, weakness. Hell, I can run an anti-tank necro that would pwn everyone with stuff like shadow of fear and price of failure. The problem with 8 warr/pets is they have no defence against conditions or hexes. Antidote can only do so much.

So no, they are not overpowered. Although I think it is kind of stupid that you are avenging a freaking bear.

you are quite right my friend. most of the posters here look directly at the spell like it is in a vacuum. they do not look at other reason why it might not need to be nerfed.

same as it was with air ele builds. until people figured out counters to it.

everyone needs to look at the big picture not at one particular aspect of it

If that isnt the point then why are we talking about ER being broken. Yes it is the point.
And for ER to out heal backfire you need to have 10 enchants "on you". Backfire does something like 130+ dmg from one spell cast and ER only heals like 17 per enchant on you.

The problem isn't just that Ether Renewal is an excellent energy management skill. (it obviously is)

The problem is that Ether Renewal basically turns an ele into an indestructable, inexhaustible damage supply. If the caster has five enchants up, he will raking in 20 energy AND 100 health every time he casts a 5 energy spell. Such a smite E/Mo will, over the course of those ten seconds, regain about 200 energy and 1000 health.

That's about twice the sum total size of his energy and health pool. And he can do this every 30 seconds. (so 20 seconds downtime)

It's counterable, but it's not balanced.

(by the way, Backfire is pathetic on an E/Mo smiter once Ether Renewal is fired up. A bad monk can easily keep up with 40 damage per second)

Hmm, I just looked at an old screenie of my E/Mo playing with ER. The heals were +152 +25 +19 per Boon spam for a total of +192 heals. At 14 Energy Storage, with 8 enchants going, Aura of Restoration included. Try again?

seed alone give back 26 minimum per second. but that being said that ele is certainly not indestructable and er can be removed

I could care less if ER is nerfed or not...but I did need to address issue number 1. Essence Bond + Balthazars Aura gives any Monk/* or */Monk a limitless supply of energy as long as they are taking physical damage...wouldn't this be the same as Ether Renewal and warrant a nerf? The character using these skills has a limitless supply of energy under certain circumstances....

It is very easy to use. You dont even need to bring enchantments on yourself and have a prot monk load you before u hit ER button.

The fact that all high energy cost ele AoE spells are complete crap to begine with doesnt not justify the power of ER at all.

Not exactly. You can use it in the same manner with pure elementalist skills to achieve similar effects smiters do.

Wrong! Eles got enchantments that give +AL & other benifits and also wards.

not even close to being wrong my friend.

wards +AL etc. the ele is by far teh worst class as far as defending themsleves. i hate to say this to someone who is as obviously as full of themselves as you are BUT YOU ARE WRONG.

ER does not need to be nerfed it needs to be countered.

try 3 monks 2 mesmers a necro a hammer and an axe warrior. you will go far.

Ok. Let's try to ignore empty statements without backup and to provide constructive arguments. I know it's probably useless, but I'll try one more time.

I'll use a fantasy skill to explain why the above arguments are obviously irrelevant. I'll purposedly use an even more broken skill, but similar to E.R in various aspects, to explain why we can expect Ether Renewal to be fixed soon (hopefully tomorrow).

Death Renewal {Elite Hex}
10 energy / 1s casting time / 20s recharge
For 10s, target foe suffers from health degeneration 1..30 and loses 1..150 hp and 1..15 energy each second. (Attribute: Soul Reaping)

Current arguments used to defend the current incarnation of Ether Renewal:
- It is an elite. It is supposed to be powerful.
- It can be countered (interrupt, anti-hex, anti-elite, well of the profane...).
- You can win in PvP without this skill.
- It buffs up an unpopular/weak profession for PvP.
and we can add:
- It is linked to an unpopular attribute which doesn't have any skill at all.

Would you like to play with or against such a skill ? If your answer is yes, I guess it's not even worth arguing over Ether Renewal. Most decent players should answer no:

- It's 10 to 15 times more powerful than similar elites.
- You don't have to be half clever as a monkey to win with such a skill.
- You just need a couple of skills (glyph, cover hex...) to ensure it works as expected.
- Trying to counter this skill would be much harder than running it yourself.

So we would end up with teams using as many copies of this elite as possible + various counters. At equal playskill, teams running this fantasy elite would win 90% of the time. Does that ring a bell?


Side comment: those who are interested in discussing a revised Ether Renewal could have a look at IxChel's thread:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=54069

Hehe. Never played a mesmer, have you.

EDIT: Oh, and the best mesmer energy-gaining skill (which is elite) gives a maximum of 18 energy and has 20 seconds cooldown.

sure i have hardest profession to play corretcly in the game.. lots of options for health /energy regen, at least more than an ele

Because the ele sucks rather than make the ele better let's just give them a totally abusive and ridiculous skill so that people will choose ele for that skill and the rest from their secondary. Yeah, good logic...

If you're looking for defense...ele probably has it the best or at least on par with monks. Wards are so incredibly strong defensively and the only way to force someone out of a ward is with good tactical movement or....Ether Renewal powered attacks (any other way will lose an energy war badly).

*sighs again* ER it totaly abusive???

i think that is a gross overstatement.


yes wards are good however the ele will not be able to stay in them under determined atatck. (ie 2 warriors and a mesmer) he will have to run or die as he will not be able to outheal once ER has been removed.

the trick in in the removal of his formidable weapon!!!

Read, think and try again:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...7&postcount=91

So, only monk skills should be out of line? That does not make any kind of sense. Smites will yeild nearly 4 times the sustained damage output a elementalist hope to achieve and have virtually zero downtime. The sad thing is that not only do the smites provide sustained damage, the damage output rivials what elementalist skills can burst with and become smart weapons that work well with warriors and cover for some warrior weaknesses.

Its not even close actually. You must consider cast time, cost, and refresh times while comparing the space taken on the skill bar and the lack of additional effects occuring. Even if you use the spammable skills to power a more costly skill, the more costly skills are only available once every 30-60 seconds and cause exhaustion creating an artificial cap on what the energy returned from ER. ER is out of line with smites, because of the way monk skills work and because of how out of line smites are in raw damage potential.

To say that flare spam is out of line, is to say that conjure with wand/stance spam is out of line, is to say that rangers are out of line and so on. I have no idea how the monk line came about, but to let it put out damage/damage removal/damage mitigation like it does in the small time frames it is capable of compared to all others is rather strange. All the other skill lines have longer start ups, cast times, and cost that scale up along with their refresh times. The monk lines are rather flat in terms of progression all things considered and in some instances getting faster, less costly, with more power.


Wards are useful and all, but you arent trying to compare armor of frost and earth to things like shielding hands, prot spirit, life bond, mark of protection, reversal of fortune and so on are you? Self only spells go so far, while targeted spells are on a totally different level.

can you tell us what your malfunction is????

smite teams are beaten every day over and over. it ER was so overpowered that would not be heppening. (as in the case of NR)

i do not know what your goal is here but to keep posting other links says nothing.

bring disenchant and a lot of them and you win. period end of story

as long as you are playing with people who know what they are doing you win!!!

and the more you win the less you will see of smite teams in tombs.

My malfunction is that I'm patient with trolls, that I know how to read and how to think. Follow the link, read the post, you'll see why your arguments are wrong.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/...57&postcount=91

Mesmer healing, you mean single spell ether feast?

Ether Renewal allows to fill up Health and Energy to full in let's say 3 secs, don't you think something is not right here? Show me how to do that with other classes? and for healing you already have aura...

also your arguments are senseless IMHO, if you want to compare classes. Ele is meant to have best damage, Monk best healing, Necro best health draining, etc. That's why they are called _classes_.