So what's wrong with rangers now? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

psykadelic224

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

waechter der ewigkeit (aka.guardians of eternity)

W/Mo

15 Sep 2005 at 19:51 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbaldwin67

I find that odd because I took my Rangers with Henchys up snake dance using Barrage, ignite, and Tigers and that was the fastest I have ever steamed rolled up snake dance to Grenths footsteps.

i hope your not trying to say that you used all three of those skills at once as barrage removes preportations so...

John Waffletord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Baltimore, MD, USA

15 Sep 2005 at 20:04 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsPlayer

Warriors can pull mobs whith a bow too... I do it sometimes when it's needed.

I usually group with rangers but only the ones i know (from the FoW or guildies) and played with. Because you can find bad players as Rangers too...

Yeah, any class can pull with a bow.. but im referring to the ones who just run up, aggro the mob, and run back, and then INSIST on doing it that way for the rest of the time you're with them.

But if they say they'll pull and pull out a bow.. thats fine.. nothing wrong with that at all.

John Waffletord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Baltimore, MD, USA

15 Sep 2005 at 20:08 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by psykadelic224

i hope your not trying to say that you used all three of those skills at once as barrage removes preportations so...

Tiger's fury isnt a preparation.. so he'd be okay with that + barrage. I use those two together often.. works out pretty well against a mob bunched together.

John Waffletord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Baltimore, MD, USA

15 Sep 2005 at 20:10 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsPlayer

Yeah i see what you have endured then

We should really spread the word, a warrior can take a bow in its hand, and it's better for him to attract the attention rather than the R anyway.

Ideally, the ranger would run past the tanks and the tanks would stop the monster attacking the ranger. Many people dont understand that two tanks infront of the spellcasters can block the melee monsters so they cant even get to the casters.

But yeah.. more warriors should carry a longbow.

Glasswalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Northwest Ascalon

Freedom

N/R

15 Sep 2005 at 20:48 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWarsPlayer

Yeah i see what you have endured then

We should really spread the word, a warrior can take a bow in its hand, and it's better for him to attract the attention rather than the R anyway.

Here, here. My latest character is a W/R, and on one mission, our Ranger was dead and our signets were all used. A boss was in the next group, and we'd all get signets recharges, so I said I'd pull. I got my bow out and naturally, after one shot, the whole group swarmed out (only 3 party members left alive, and only a Well of Blood for healing)

Well, they all came for me and we managed to survive (barely) and kill the boss, res the Monk, and team was back to full.

After that, whenever we approached more than one group of mobs, the Ranger says, "You pull"

I hesitated to post this, because I'm on the side of the Rangers. That might not be apparent from this post... (I believe that one shot did 3 damage or so)

So to respond to the thread in general:

Morons. Utter morons. There are 6 classes in Guild Wars, but some people think there are 3. There are 3 active threads right now saying Rangers suck! Mesmers suck! and Necros suck! Makes me want to play my N/R again and put together a team from "The Loser's Club". <--Stephen King reference intended.

Let's kick some dwarven arse.

Valefic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

NH

Angelic Embrace

W/R

15 Sep 2005 at 21:45 - 46

ya rangers can be good and annoying when your fighting them. noobs just dont see that they can be good. {rangers rock}

Talon Berethin

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Crusaders

R/E

15 Sep 2005 at 23:14 - 47

Personally, I love doing the UW with a trapper party. It's well balanced and there is nothing more amusing than watching 6 Grasping Darkness disintigrate in a rush of spikes and flames. Also the Ranger is greatly underlooked as a runner build. Dodge,Storm Chaser, Escape, Unguent, Dryders Defenses are all the skills u need. You can do nice easy runs like Gates of Kryta, Lions Arch, and Divinity Coast. Even better wait for your party members to catch up if they can. Ranger is last on the AI target list, every mob will attack everything but you.

Also in FoW the other night, it was my lvl 20 interrupt, blinding ranger and a healer, against 2 shadows, an ele and a warrior. Of course monk doesnt attack and my ranger is left to do it all. I kick the crap out of the ele, and then when i start on the warrior what happens, Monk runs out of energy. Thanks to Marksmans wager i never run out. Troll Ung, Hunter shot, distracting shot, Troll Ung. All i needed to own the warrior.

Draco Hunt

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Netherlands

Resistance is Painfull[RiP]

A/Me

15 Sep 2005 at 23:20 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Since spirit spamming has been nerfed, Rangers are worthless...

/Throws gas on the fire and runs!

Trips and gets cought in his own fire

Burn Baby BURN!!!

Draco Hunt

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Netherlands

Resistance is Painfull[RiP]

A/Me

15 Sep 2005 at 23:24 - 49

Well i have a monk/ranger and somehow i cant get into groups atleast when they notice im wielding a bow they freak out

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

15 Sep 2005 at 23:26 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Hunt

Well i have a monk/ranger and somehow i cant get into groups atleast when they notice im wielding a bow they freak out

Just tell them it's a Hale Zealous bow of Smiting.

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

15 Sep 2005 at 23:27 - 51

The mind set that a whole lot of people have is Rangers are just for pulling but not so; If the Ranger is good he will target casters and annoy the hell out of them and keep them from casting their crap.

Because of that, when I tank on a team full of ele's monks, tanks and one ranger it is easy for me to see if we have a good Ranger as my enhancements will rarely drop.

Swarnt Brightstar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

Mongolia!... But sadly Florida

Rulers of Mythology <ROM>

R/Mo

15 Sep 2005 at 23:34 - 52

I prefer my Warrior just to PvE usually, I feel invincible killing the charr army! Sometimes

But, seriously, Rangers, could probably beat a war, 1-1

But, lol, My R/Mo is so funny! Instead of going after monks, I go after necs first in PvP, the smites are good, if it doesnt do double damage then I go after W/??

John Waffletord

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Baltimore, MD, USA

16 Sep 2005 at 12:30 - 53

I think rangers would do pretty well 1v1

Concussion shot would own spellcasters. With marks at 16 concussion shot dazes for 20 seconds if you hit them while casting a spell.. and spamming tiger's fury with a short bow.. once you get them dazed, it would be very difficult for them for get out of it.

Cymboric Treewalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Imperial Palace - Cantha

[SFK] Sacred Forge Knights (founder)

Me/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 13:10 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

those are the same noobs who think mesmers and necs are useless too. they only want 3 things in their group: tanks, healers, and nukers.

the way i see it, you're better off not having joined them as that may have been a more frustrating experience.

Setup right a ranger or mesmer can cause more damage to the opposition than any of the "main-line" characters.

133 damage per spell with Backfire for me...
112 AOE damage per Hex I shatter
80 AOE damage per energy surge (assuming the enemy has energy)

With Echo I can do that twice.

Rangers deal conditions then epidemic... ouch.
Barrage for large clusters

Sorry people just don't understand. They just don't.

pyrohex

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 13:11 - 55

The problem is, there are often as many retarded rangers out there as there are whammos - yes, a good ranger is worth his weight in gold, but they're about that rare as well. I am more than accomodating for mesmers and necros (though necros do seem to get retards occasionally), but I am often a little more hesitant with rangers. It's just...too hard to get a good one.

psykadelic224

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

waechter der ewigkeit (aka.guardians of eternity)

W/Mo

16 Sep 2005 at 13:12 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Waffletord

Tiger's fury isnt a preparation.. so he'd be okay with that + barrage. I use those two together often.. works out pretty well against a mob bunched together.

yeah your right but if you read what he said he also uses ignit arrows so thats a preporation!

Macel

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 13:22 - 57

Yeah the thing I've noticed is that a lot of the rangers, especially in missions up until crystal desert where they start getting decently challenging, don't have a clue what they're doing... They'll just sit there and plink arrows with no damage additions, seemingly not doing anything else.. The worst possible damage you can do in the game is with a bow (with no skills to supplement the base damage). Bows can also do some of the best possible damage, but you have to think through what abilities to combine to get that damage.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

16 Sep 2005 at 13:36 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Since spirit spamming has been nerfed, Rangers are worthless...

/Throws gas on the fire and runs!

The damage that a ranger does is phenominal, let me give you an example of basic bow damage.

15-28 Peircing Damage
+15% Damage > (if health over 50%)
+20% Bow Grip Damage vs charr, tungsu , pruning..etc
+20% damage for customization

12 marks = 100% damage = 28.0----->32.200---->38.6400---->46.368
13 marks = 104% damage = 29.12--->33.488---->40.1856---->48.22272
14 marks = 107% damage = 29.96--->34.454---->41.3448---->49.61376
15 marks = 111% damage = 31.08--->35.742---->42.8904---->51.46848
16 marks = 115% damage = 32.2----->37.030---->44.4360---->53.3232

Right now I'm running barrage + conjure flame in SF, with the following bow at marksmanship 15.

15-28 Fire Damage (fiery bow string)
+15% Damage while enchanted
+20% Bow Grip Damage vs dwarves
+20% damage for customization

My basic bow shot is 51 points damage + 10 pts per arrow because of conjure
and 16 pts bonus for barrage at current marksmanship level. I'm doing 76 points against casters AL 60 and 47-55 against warriors. per bow shot not counting elevation which adds a few points, because most rangers know to seek the high ground. I'm doing this while getting off 2-5 arrows a shot with barragge so thats 200-300 pts damage across the mob per 2.5 seconds with my stormbow. Then I interupt with savage/distracting as neccesary, thats not counting traps and spells from my secondary. All this while my spider is doing hammer level damage at BM 11.

If you call that worthless you need to learn the game. Most of these non-tanking warriors and johnny come lately nukes are basicly good for waiting till I have the mob at 10% life and running up stealing credit for the kill. Rangers own and there has never been evidence to the contrary and never will be.

Charcoal Ann

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

In a World of BADGERS!

Eternal Flame Brotherhood

16 Sep 2005 at 13:51 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

The problem is, there are often as many retarded rangers out there as there are whammos

lol
i started a group for Thunderhead Keep and i had 2 rangers in there. one of them simply ran around dropping frozen soil. why?
i asked him to stop and pointed out that nothing on this map resses and it doesn't stop minions. he keeps doing it. i say please stop. (others call him a dunce) then he leaves.

hrmmm......

Ranger is the only primary class that i havn't played. but i will always accept a ranger or two. i can remeber a group with 4 rangers who spammed healing spring. i'm fairly sure we won.

also from a technical point of view rangers should not necesarily pull. that aggroes the mobs onto a character who spends much of their time near the casters. not too good.

in most situations a warrior charge will suffice. unless the groups are very close together.

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

16 Sep 2005 at 13:58 - 60

I love having a ranger in my group. They are the true tanks because they do MORE damage per shot than a typical tank....add barrage and they are golden. BTW...I am usually the warrior, ele, or monk for my group. I also like having a mesmer along, however, I have yet to see a good necro!

As a monk I spend ALL my time healing them, then they wonder why I need a well of power or blood ritual. I swear they all have major and superior runes on because they are dead in 2 hits! In groups without a necro, I never need to recharge! I also run into too may necros that still focus on minions and in Furnace the enemy uses the dead bodies faster than most necros I've been with. The best necros are have skills that support the group, just like the monk, so they need to stop aggro'ing and stay back.

Eadwyn Mirwen

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 14:06 - 61

It is simple:

Rangers are probably the most hard to play class. Therefore, many fail to play them effectively. Therefore, this is one of the reasons they have a bad reputation.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

16 Sep 2005 at 14:12 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

also from a technical point of view rangers should not necesarily pull. that aggroes the mobs onto a character who spends much of their time near the casters. not too good.

Interesting point but I disagree. The purpose of pulling is to lure a foe or two away from the main mobs so they can be ambushed by the rest of the group the ranger is the only one who should be doing this because with his longbow he is not acually aggroing the mob.

When a warrior "pulls" the strategy is for everyone to stay out of the warriors aggro circle while he draws all aggro of the entire mob. Once the mob is totally upon him everyone else nukes and attacks full force.

While there is a time and place for both of these stategies. I wouldn't call what the warrior is doing as actually pulling rather than being a mere distraction. But unexperienced warriors cant tell the difference and think they are pulling in the true sense.

capitalist

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 14:26 - 63

My favorite is when a ranger pulls with a short bow...

Puller's please use a longbow or a storm bow.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

16 Sep 2005 at 14:58 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

My favorite is when a ranger pulls with a short bow...

Puller's please use a longbow or a storm bow.

Guilty on occassion... however it's when I want to be the center of attention for the baddies. Otherwise, yes... range is good.

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

16 Sep 2005 at 15:01 - 65

Why pull anymore....just send the warrior while everyone else stays out of agro. When they all attack, the ele can cast, the ranger can barrage, and the monk can balthazar's aura. Creatures dead in under 20sec!

The only time we ever pull now is when there are 3-4 groups that are on patrol in that particular area. If you pull make sure it is a small group because the ranger often runs back to the group and then everyone is is agro'ed. This is not always the ranger's fault, because often, the group does not back up far enough to give the ranger room to fall back.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

16 Sep 2005 at 15:44 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoKILLate[FDG]

Why pull anymore....just send the warrior while everyone else stays out of agro. When they all attack, the ele can cast, the ranger can barrage, and the monk can balthazar's aura. Creatures dead in under 20sec!

The only time we ever pull now is when there are 3-4 groups that are on patrol in that particular area. If you pull make sure it is a small group because the ranger often runs back to the group and then everyone is is agro'ed. This is not always the ranger's fault, because often, the group does not back up far enough to give the ranger room to fall back.

Your second paragraph answers your question, but the senario you painted about the ranger being persued and baddies following him to the rear ranks is the classic example of a non-tanking wamo. Once the subect of the pull is lured away from main mob. His path should be blocked at some point by the wamo tank so the ambush can begin. If he is gonna stand there and let the baddies run past him and attack the casters then that is definately a tank issue.

Also very often the ranger is crowded as you mentioned because the wamo wont get back and the casters follow his lead making it even more crowded, but this is just poor play all the way around. Oftentimes resulting in the wamo blocking traps and mobs scattering thoughout the ranks because the casters are too close and the tank is noobish.

I cant count the number of times in the FoW where a patrol has been pulled maybe 2 shadow warriors a ele and mesmer and the wamo watches the shadow warriors run right past him and reek havic on our castors. He then snaps out of his daze and begins wailing away on the mesmer and ele which are nearly dead already. Only after the soft targets are dead does he help with the shadow warriors. After which we are scraping a castor or two up off the ground by that time.

wsmcasey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right behind you.

HeRo

W/Rt

16 Sep 2005 at 15:46 - 67

Unfortunately there's just no way to really tell if your getting a good or bad Ranger in a random pug until you start fighting (unless its a guildy or a friend). Allow me to dream for a moment: wouldn't it be nice if A-net incorportated a skill bar on a character for everyone else to see. Just like when your in a mission zone you can see the persons skill level and character combination (lvl20 E/MO), you would also see a skill bar ranging from 0-100% that would calculate numerous factors based on the person average performance in combat. That could be changed for healers as well on there performance to heal a party and so on.

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

16 Sep 2005 at 15:50 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

Unfortunately there's just no way to really tell if your getting a good or bad Ranger in a random pug until you start fighting (unless its a guildy or a friend). Allow me to dream for a moment: wouldn't it be nice if A-net incorportated a skill bar on a character for everyone else to see. Just like when your in a mission zone you can see the persons skill level and character combination (lvl20 E/MO), you would also see a skill bar ranging from 0-100% that would calculate numerous factors based on the person average performance in combat. That could be changed for healers as well on there performance to heal a party and so on.

There is no way to tell if anyone is any good regardless of class. The probelm is rangers are assumed to suck and everyone else is assumed to be good automatically.

wsmcasey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right behind you.

HeRo

W/Rt

16 Sep 2005 at 16:18 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

There is no way to tell if anyone is any good regardless of class. The probelm is rangers are assumed to suck and everyone else is assumed to be good automatically.

From my experience necros and mesmers are in the same boat as rangers as far as people assuming they suck (which they dont). No class sucks, only the people playing them.

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

16 Sep 2005 at 17:33 - 70

That's funny...the only class I assume sucks is the warrior. Too many first time users jump for the warrior class because they assumre that it is the strongest class. This is true early on, but changes as other classes gain the key skills that define them. From my many PUG quests I now assume that ~7 out of 10 warriors suck.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

16 Sep 2005 at 17:44 - 71

What's funny are the warriors that leave the party as soon as they don't see x number of monks in the group. This is common in the new areas especially.

Then was the warrior last night (new necro for me, Defend the Wall mission) that would only "help us" if someone gave him a green dye. Demand payment from me for services like that = instaboot. Replaced him with a mesmer.

wsmcasey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Right behind you.

HeRo

W/Rt

16 Sep 2005 at 17:52 - 72

I got in a group last night for Thunderhead with my ranger. there were 7/8 in the party still looking for a monk, The leader was asking for suggestions. There were 4 warriors in the group, so I suggested dropping 1 warrior and getting an elementalist. Guess what, they kicked me! I wasn't really surprised, it has happened before. I put the idiot leader on my ignore list so I don't have to deal with him in the future.

ChoKILLate[FDG]

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[FDG]-Fudge

Mo/Me

16 Sep 2005 at 18:45 - 73

Good, you will NEVER beat Thunderhead with 4 warriors! The key is having rangers trap the doors and good shot calling by the team. Nuking to get rid of enemy fast is important. If any get by, one real monk is good so they can keep the king alive.

I have found the best way to beat Thunderhead is with 2-3 real people and the rest NPC. One person on each pair of catapults is enough.

Kurow

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

Faces of Death [Tye]

R/W

16 Sep 2005 at 20:50 - 74

Anyone who says that rangers cannot pack on the most straigt up normal damage obviously hasnt thought about it too much.
1)Even the premade class "flame slinger" in the PvP section packs on something around 80 damage total per hit,
2)Hammer rangers pack on the damage like no other, thanks to tiger's fury and expertiese,
3)status/preperations add lots of damage (mmmm apply poison)
etc. Even though the point of rangers is that they are supposed to be the jack of trades, in many cases they can do somethings better than the classes that specialize in it.

And people who dont pick rangers are stupid.

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

16 Sep 2005 at 21:20 - 75

It isn't that other classes aren't assumed to suck. I assume that everyone on my team is going to suck. It's that a sucky Elementalist is still going to cast Meteor Shower every time it refreshes, and a sucky Warrior is still going to stand there and take hits (assuming, of course, he isn't completely incomptent and just runs off to solo things and dies). A sucky Ranger is going to sit in the back and plink things and do effectively nothing. Look at Aidan. That guy doesn't do anything.

Warriors and Monks and Elementalists can be bad. But they can't be *as bad* as Rangers or Mesmers. When you assume everyone is terrible, you look at the floors, and Rangers and Mesmers have the lowest ones.

Peace,
-CxE

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

16 Sep 2005 at 21:30 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

If you call that worthless you need to learn the game.

It was a JOKE!!!!

Joe L.

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

USA

R/

16 Sep 2005 at 22:03 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eadwyn Mirwen

It is simple:

Rangers are probably the most hard to play class. Therefore, many fail to play them effectively. Therefore, this is one of the reasons they have a bad reputation.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

btw defeated glint on secpnd try ( used hench on first)solely because I kept her from using crystal hybernation,was supposed to be really hard, but I thought it was rather easy.

Joe L.

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

USA

R/

16 Sep 2005 at 22:08 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoKILLate[FDG]

That's funny...the only class I assume sucks is the warrior. Too many first time users jump for the warrior class because they assumre that it is the strongest class. This is true early on, but changes as other classes gain the key skills that define them. From my many PUG quests I now assume that ~7 out of 10 warriors suck.

I agree, started a mesmer a few days ago, and have done all missions up to Kryta without any warrior, and I have to say, the missions seemed easier than ever, never have some idiot aggroing everything in sight. Though I am in no way slamming warriors, I think it is just as hard to find a good one of those as anything else.

Dahl

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Ontario, Canada

Exalted Legionnaires [ExL]

16 Sep 2005 at 22:20 - 79

It's true that people jump to warriors first because they're insecure and think they can dominate. Me personally though, I'm a melee type, so I would have picked a melee char no matter what. Even now being very experienced, I still choose melee, though I do have a protector monk. People judge w/mo's too harshly, though i guess its hard not to unless you actually see the warrior in battle.

I'm always the very last character to die in a party too, the only reason I'll ever die is if im afk and someone aggro's a bunch of monsters, or my entire party is dead and the whole mob is on me, and even then, I last a long time until eventually i slowly die. Sometimes my whole party is dead and I'm left standing, facing a dozen foes, and then winning! I had a case in Kryta against a mob of skeletons. About 11 or 12 of them were on me, and my party was long dead, it took a couple of minutes but I cleared away all of them (thank you "I will avenge you!").

Rangers are also very amazing, though I tend to not even use bows. My r/w is very odd and most people badmouth my build (which I won't reveal because it'll shortly revolutionize pvp

) but then they see me and are just awe'd.

Don't judge a character until you see them in action.

Krazax

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

16 Sep 2005 at 22:31 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

The problem is, there are often as many retarded rangers out there as there are whammos - yes, a good ranger is worth his weight in gold, but they're about that rare as well. I am more than accomodating for mesmers and necros (though necros do seem to get retards occasionally), but I am often a little more hesitant with rangers. It's just...too hard to get a good one.

Exactly. Good rangers are hard to come by.