No respect for runners?

Today I was doing some smaller scale runs. While I was doing a run to Deldrimor Warcamp the first thing everyone did was run with me. This is obviously the dumbest thing you can do to a runner becuase the runner is:

1. Is destracted and is consentrating on what the other people are doing.

2. Monsters in large groups target various people. Either you use the Balanced stance and you don't get knocked down and waste it or use it and have the chance of nothing actually hitting you.

3. Aggrofest. Most people don't know how to use their aggro circle or properly dodge into tight areas to let the enemy pass. While you hide out and heal/recharge skill Iheal U For Free or whomever is luring two mobs at you becuase he just CANT add that extra 1 to his /death counter.

4. Bodyblock. You don't know how annoying it is when you hit the ranger infront of you and stop for 1-2 seconds.

Well, I died becuase, me being in the front, took the Crippling Anguish and was slowed to the rear and then was pounded on by 5-10 enemies.

Everyone was going ".....," "omg," and the like.

Well, I got them to zone, got to Grenth's Footprints andran all the way to Killroy Stonekin and did the "I'm talking to Killroy Stonekin" call. Realising that I only had 100 health left (My Endure Pain had just ended) with bleeding on me, I quickly clicked "Purge Conditions".. But since Killroy was selected I used it on him. I died of bleeding; reminds me of soloing UW while half asleep or making tea .

So we rezone and the only person alive was the other warrior, he had no DP. I try it again with 15% DP, get through a Crippling Anguish and several arrow hurling mobs, almost made it to Killroy when I died from two wandings or something. I remember seeing the "93 health" just as they started to turn back. I could have made it if I hadn't picked up the DP.

So the other warrior in the group decideds to take it into his own hands and gets guided by the other people in the group (he didn't know the way) to the top of the mountain.

Free run for them. And I was only charging 250 (Short run and with 7 people I make 1,750 gold off it). And another time some warrior got ahead of me, aggroing a large mob with him that Anguished me as he ran up the hill using the "Charge!" that I'm pretty sure I cast -.-

I had one expirience where someone that I ran from Ascalon to Beacon's Perch and were about to run to Kryta, had his friend or, atleast, a cheaper runner step in to take him to Kryta. The guy still owes me 750 gold. I saw him just a little latter with a group full of W/mo spamming "PAYING 1k TO ANYONE WHO CAN HELP ME GET TO KRYTA" XD

So has anyone else had these kind of problems? I don't think people taking over the run happens that often in Droknar's runs, but it does alot in the smaller ones.

This is the kind of problem you can expect when running is essentially the only alternative to farming for turning a decent profit. Everyone and his dog is doing runs now, so naturally runners aren't nearly as respected as when it was limited to a dozen or so runners going to Droknars.

Economy has never been GW's strong point, and in this area it's vastly outclassed by WoW.

Another possible reason for all the lack of respect (across the game, not just for runners) is an unfortunate side effect of the game having no monthly fee. Not that I'm a proponent of monthly fees for games, but you do have to remember not too many 12-year-olds or adult cheap scum will be ponying up $15 a month to play a game.

And yes I've encountered the same lack of respect for runners. Fortunately I generally run for free so the payment scammers are of no consequence for myself. The run-jackers, while annoying, are also not really a huge concern if I'm doing it for free. If they screw up their own free run, it's their loss not mine.

Why should I respect someone who takes complete losers and skill-less newbs into areas they should never, ever be? Seriously, if you need to be *run* to the War Camp, you just should not be there...at all.

That said, runners often provide valuable services to those of us who have played through the game 4-5 times. Who wouldn't have themselves run to Droknars to avoid buying all those intermediate armor sets? If you've got no interest in unlocking all those random regular skills, who wouldn't rather just skip a huge portion of the game and be run to Sanctum? Skilled players obviously want to speed up their game.

But I suspect skilled players are the exception rather than the rule; I've seen how horrible most players are in the later missions, the UW, and the FoW. They've obviously been run almost everywhere. They haven't learned how to play the game as they've progressed through it. I blame the runners trying to make a quick buck for the overwhelming surge of clueless players that are a blight on our collective gaming experience.

Respect? Nay. Contempt? Yes, and (quite rarely) a few coins here and there.

cmb

Loads of respect for runners as I use them from time to time and they really get the job done. Last night I ran a fellow guildie who had just entered post searing from ascalon to yaks... WOW... I have really only run myself using my warrior, to places I could get to but decided to try this run. The Charr are simply an annoyance and no real threat to my health... until I came across those mergoyals... I hate them... I tried to run past them first but imagine burdon slowed me down and next thing I knew I was dead. So we tried again... that was my only death... when I got back to them, I killed them all and moved on lol.

I'm sure seasoned runners might call the ascalon to yaks a quick easy run... but for me it was a heart pounding thrill with that ever looming question of... "can I make it?" Of course I know full well I'm no match for a drok run lol... Farming, running or fighting... its all a form of income and earned how we want to. I do not think people should be run at lv 2 from ascalon all the way to the desert or what not... yes play the game. But to be run to droks for armor to use PvE. no prob. To be run from one location to the next one to continue the story, thats fine with me to.

I respect all runners. But I dislike all scammers.

On the part about people running with you, guess you'll just have to expect it. You either run ahead of them before they get a chance, or change your skills around. Can't help it, but it usually does happen. If others aggro mobs, run away from them and find a safe spot. If they keep following you, might as well use them as a meat shield.

Scamming is very popular here in GW. Well, from what I see. Runners want others to pay at start location, clients want to pay at destination. I suggest having people pay after you zone, or at a post in between where you are running.

The upside of running-
Getting people to places they've never been to before, and getting a first hand experience on what is to come.

The downside-
New people not knowing what to do. People begging for money to help them pay for armor at droknars. Complaints that quests/missions are too hard for them when they are not suppose to be there storyline wise.

People begging for money or materials at Droknar's truly don't deserve to be there:

1. Obviously you've been run there (if you can pay for the run, you can pay for the armour else you wouldn't even bother to be run there)

2. If its your first time and you didn't know the prices of the armour/material costs and don't have enough, its a high chance you've been run there cos by the time you ascend, you would definitely have at least 15k-20k which would be enough for almost all the armour there (not sure I just took a shot but seeing as the whole set costs 7.5k in gold, the rest should be enough for materials)

If I'm just feeling a little bored, I normally spam "giving away free materials, less than level 20s need not apply".
Might make a couple of those low-level-first-timers there want to kick themselves...doubt it though

Yeah it does you little good to get run from ascalon-beacon-lion's arch-ToA-Santum Cay-Desert to ascend... I mean, you missed 90% of the story and I bet you still only have pre-searing skills. Of course your gonna SUCK out there lol.

Scammers... Runners hate going through the effort of running someone for free. I've been run and I'm not about to pay someone right away so that he/she can zone and drop, leaving me without my money and a group of pissed off people. The solution is tough... people who want a run/have gotten run before know a key to success lies in others distracting while not getting in the way. Now when getting run by a guildie somewhere I'll run with them so I get the path to. However people who get run, often die during the run so they can't pay before entering a portal. Its simple for someone to drop from the group as soon as they arrive to. Experienced Drok runners know to collect at certain points... knowing if you drop from the group there, your no further ahead.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head there. But how to weed out first timers from fifth timers? That would be much too time-consuming for most runners, even if they cared.

There was a necro in my group during the early Ascalon quests bragging how his warrior has leet Drok's armor with 5 vigor runes.

Hahahhaahahahahaha
Thats just hilarious!!!

What?! You mean vigor runes don't stack? omg...

/sarcasm

The only run I would ever pay money for is the Forge run. And I admit my view on this has changed since the early days of the game. I've now completed the RPG portion with 4 different characters... and no longer have any interested to do it again. But other than Forge, I'll tip a runner... but I'll never pay him a set price.

I disagree with you on that. Like people said, they don't want to waste time on fighting their way to the war camp if they can just get run there. Sure i could get a group together and fight the whole way but I just don't feel like it. I don't want to sound lazy but it gets you there fast so you can start on the missions and not waste time getting there.

Ummm... how about because you then proceed to explain how they do in fact provide usefull services, which you have even availed yourself of occasionally?

There's something called a 'double-standard'. You should look it up sometime.

w/o runners you would be playing the game for 2-3 weeks with any other class than monks to get through majority of the game. that's a good time too not to mention all the stupid people you get in parties arggoing mursaat at ice caves.

i use runners b/c i can take a newly made character from lvl 1 to 20 in 1 day and be at the end of the game with him. if i had to spend nearly a month on each one then i would have shot myself a long time ago as the headache of doing it the first time was enough.

Well, I certainly have no respect for runners. Sorry, that's how I am. Sure you can claim that you got bored with your 69th character and just want to get good stuff faster - but I still don't like people who do it, both runners and those who pay for it.
Bet I'm not the only one.

I dont see anything wrong with runners. If you want to play the pve for everything then dont get ran anywhere. I played the entire game through with my monk and created 2 other pve characters, now, why would i want to do all of the missions over again if i already did them? seems pointless to me and boring.

And it effects you HOW in game? Why do you dislike something that has no bearing on your game enjoyment?

I've used runner in the past - you can't get a PUG together at Elona Reach anymore, it's all runners now. You can spam "monk lfg" all you want, but chances are, you're alone. After enduring dozens of missions like elona's reach with PUBs and having to do them over and over and over and over because PUGs SUCK at that mission - I'll gladly hand over 1K and get it over with. And I've finished the game with six diff characters/professions.

Get off your high horse.

"Get off your high horse."
Make me. It's my opinion, that's all. Do I forbid you to run? Do I sit there, flaming you all day? Maybe I get jealous of that 1k - oooh, such fortune. Nope.

I just don't like it. Get it? I dislike easy way out of situation - hell, in most games, I prefer using less popular professions(here, I play monk - just cause friends wanted me too, but who cares?), kinda self-imposed challenge.

And to quote you again - "And it effects you HOW in game" that I don't like you? You couldn't care less, no?

I don't think people should be ran on their first time playing the game. Most people begging for materials are low level, first time players that save up and pay to be ran becuase their Guild Mates or Friends that have never been ascended think it's the only way to get there. And believe me, that happens all the time.

I like to be ran places becuase I don't really feel like sitting through some specific parts of the game untill I am powerful enough to breeze through them. I don't get ran to have Ether Renewal or something in Ascalon areana, I do it to have NON-LINEAR fun.

Why do I run people? I think running is fun. I like the dodging out of the aggro of a mob in a split second and having everyone that I'm running start cheering. It's fun. I enjoy seeing areas of the game without having to hack my way through 50 imps. It's an alternative playing style that is entertaining. I don't find farming UW entertaining.

I also recognize that there are players like me who don't want to hack and slash Charr for 2 weeks becuase, you know what, MOST OF US HAVE DONE THE ASCALON MISSIONS 4+ TIMES.

That's why I run. That's why I get ran. Not to exploit. Not to steal. But to have fun and learn more about the game and ways to play it at the same time.

Rock on runners! In an age of even dumber PUG... the need for good armor and skills early on while grouped with hench is becoming more and more apparent. Runners will always be needed. Runners enjoy running me because I usually pay over what they are asking. I know the Droknar run is tough and anyone who knocks a runner simply has NO idea and NO skills what so ever to be able to complete such a task. They can not do it there for they bash it. Sour grapes people... I don't know what GW your all playing but I see just as much begging in droknar as I see in Ascalon... tell me... were they run to ascalon? Come on...

Farmers spend hours out there clearing areas then spamming the chats in cities selling their "uber" loot for money... Runners simply run through those areas and probably make the same to. For example a runner from Beacon perch to Droknar charges 2k per person. Leaves in a team of 6 including him/herself. Thats 10k for 30 mins of work. It takes me a week to earn 10k farming lol.

Never go away runners... I have another character I will need run soon lol.

I tend to only look for people who run for free, since you know they aren't out for your money. I still end up donating 1 - 2 plat anyway, but I think i need to stop now cause I've gone broken on keys and 15k armoring my chars. I have alot of respect for good runners, since it takes skill and patiences to do it. However, I'm not sure if people that run with the runner are purposely trying to distract them. Sometimes I run with them just to see a bit of the map and if theres anything there worth looking for (Collectors/odd npcs), yet I have no intention of failing them on purpose by running next to them.

I'm with ya buddy...worst gameplay desision ever.


I don't think someone is on thier high horse just because they have a point of view, that's sorta the pot calling the kettle black. If you disagree that's cool, but I think there's alot of people who don't like it.

It affects my game because it is community based. I don't want to have to see people spamming for running, and I don't want to feel like I have to run to get uber armor like it's expected. I think it breeds scamming, and people doing things they shouldn't. That's my opinion since Anet, in thier infinite wisdom, made it possible to do.

.. and here you are commenting with such sarcasm at Anet's decision.

Tell me again when you produce something that will sell a million copies.. oh wait, I doubt you have a million dollars even.

It is your opinion.

Your opinion doesn't affect me in anyway.

However we all prefer you keep your opinion to yourself

Sorry bud. Playing through the game with a W/Mo does NOT mean you know how to play a E/Me. Having your E/Me run will NOT teach you how to play it.

So you got to level 20 in one day. Good for you. Thats yet another level 20 I do not want to play with.

If its too much of a headache to play the game, wtf. Why are you still here? If the game is too difficult without Drok's Armor, then go back to playing Doom with Godmode on.

Sorry for the hostility, but the mood of MMORPGs these days is starting to wear on me. In single player RPGs if you can't get past a point, you wait to get stronger, or are forced to try a differnt approch. In MMORPGs? OOOoh no. Just get rushed/leeched/run past it. Don't worry! You'll do just fine once you get past it.

ARRGH.

On another note. Spaming for runs belongs in the trade channel. Its a service. You ARE selling something (Or buying, whatever) Put it where it belongs. Leave the people who actualy play the game alone. That goes for all you people spaming trades in local chat too. The whole spaming part is where half of my comtempt for runners comes from.

Troll much?

Obviously if you don't see the value in the services runners provide, then you haven't been playing enough. Running is a double-edged sword. It's the way that experienced players get around = good. The way that poor newbies get around = bad. So it's a quick fix to a bigger problem.

I know one thing, and its that Anet hates runners.

I used to be able to run all the way to the granite cidadel without dying, and now I'm barely making it past the first stage from the Ice Caves.

BTW, I'm a Monk/Warrior.

My problem with runners lies not in the fact that they rush characters, but that:

1. There's a huge potential for scamming on both sides, runner and runnee.
-Being run to Droknar's the other day, the typical runnee claimed he was AFK or whatever. Thankfully Grenth's Footprint allowed us to warp again and the guy paid.
-In addition, there are terrible runners and scammers. The run to Droknar's does take some skill, it is not a cakewalk.

2. New/first-time players are being told to go to Droknar's.
-I had a nice chat with someone in Beacon's Perch. He was lvl 13 and was told that the best armor was in Droknar's. He had only enough money to pay for the run, not the armor. New players should not be sent to Droknar's only to beg for money and materials. Making it to Droknar's the "normal" way usually garners you most if not all of the money necessary.

3. Ascalon/Yak's Bend armor and skills abuse.
This has already been covered in numerous other threads and I won't go into it here.


Anet included running as a legitimate option. It's not a necessary option, though. The first time through the game I did every single quest, every single mission without a runner. With other characters, the only run I'll have is for Droknar's armor. I'll still have to go around and do most quests and missions, unless I want to spend an obscene amount of gold buying all the skills from Ember Light Camp.

The Beacon's Perch to Droknar's Forge runners don't offend me at all, but most, you have to admit, are quite amusing. Why? Because most of the runners aren't very good. You enter the group just for the priviledge of watching someone run around like a lost rodent getting his ass kicked from every direction ....
.... then, after respawning, saying, "Let's start again. I need to get rid of some DP."
I don't have the heart to tell them my mesmer would probably run better even if she were butt nekkid. So I just say, "thx for trying but - gtg now."

Wow, funny I thought that this was a public forum...here's thought if you don't like my opinion... tough.

Anyhow yes, I love sarcasm. I think it was a idiotic decision to allow people to use this exploit. Evidently there are a few people that disagree, but thanks note encouragement. I think there are a few that do. I'm not sure what exactly me being a millionaire or not has to do with it, but I'm sure you had a point somewhere.

...oh and from a person who enjoys sarcasm, you need to work on yours.
I think your defensiveness ruins it. While you say it doesn't affect you, evidently it did enough for you to take the time to comment on it.

-Have a nice day

Maybe so, but not all of us wanna farm all damn day to make gold. If people want ran, and I'm able - I'll run them. Supply and demand. More fun than farming anyways IMO.

Only a crap runner gets distracted by them.

What is the difference here? If they didn't follow you, you would have to use balanced stance anyways.

This is the only reasonable comment from you so far. Even then, most people die from the first few mobs.

Oh noes! You got body blocked for a whole second!!! Even then, the monsters will most likely attack the others that have a lower lvl AL than you.

What do you think would happen if they didn't follow you? Think real hard. Would they great you with roses and gold? No, they would bash you in even faster.

That is what I am saying right now...

I am a runner myself. As a runner I encourage people to try and follow me. They make perfect meatshields having a lower armor level than me (they get attacked before I would).

I have hung up my running shoes for now though. I will not support twinkers in any way.

I met a couple of runners last night, they where a couple of dutch guys doing the Droknar's run.

They where good guys, and ran me and my brother there. I wont go into the reasons why I wanted to get there (and no it wasent to get Armor or beg (If you ever seen Saner The Stoner doing anyting in trade other than selling al mt crap at cheap prices feel free to correct me) but not all Runners are scammers and idiots, these two guys where a good laugh.

I actually made the final stretch with them, and it was funny as hell to see two runners cheering as I was running up to the end

1) Tons of respect to skilled runners, e.g. some of the ones going from Beacons to Droknars.

2) No respect to the skill-less runners, most of them charging nickles and dimes running easy stretches. Failing a run means you're not deserving of respect from your passengers. Deal with it, Sagius.

3) No respect to the people being run. Pretty much all of them are clueless lazy bums, and you all know it. Most in this thread are either lazy bums themselves, or make money off these lazy bums.

4) I don't expect to hear you guys who use runners "a little" to ever complain about how short or boring the PvE is, OK? You've forfeited your right to talk.

In droknar runs people gets eaten by them worms :P Thx god!

Try to set up a couple of rules, which you spam your party before taking the tour = makes all aware of what you want them to do! =) works for me.

Gotta agree with Dax, KaPe & octaviancmb here. I do not respect runners nor those that are run no matter how many times a person as played thru the game.

Oh & for you that say I obviously havent played more than one toon. Incorrect, I am on my 4th toon thru the game. Not one has been ran, not one has been "twinked."

I haven't charged anyone for running, but I can do it successfully if I need to. I helped my guildie last night go from Droknars to Rankor then to War Camp and didn't die once. Our newest guild member is a young guy that got ran to Droknars and I wish that he hadn't, but its too late. I was ran to Droknars on my 4th character because I didn't want to waste money on multiple armors, and I wanted some elite skills faster for pvp. Our new guild member that was run is only hurting himself, its his first character "lvl 12 ranger", and he has a lot to learn before doing the higher level game content.
It's not fair to tell people how to play the game, but if your rushing thru the game and you only plan on doing PvE, then it's not fair to the experienced PvE'rs that get stuck with you in a group.

Can the premium runner of Guild Wars post in this thread? I have never had any trouble getting respect and absolutely love running and the challenge of rushing people through missions. It makes PvE formidable, for a change, when you have to beat Thirsty River with henchmen and no help from your passengers. I think the solution to all the problems is for runners to all charge more. When runners charge a lot a number of good things happen:

• customers make the decision more carefully, and decide if they will make more money doing something they enjoy like farming or tombing or playing the FoW with a newly ascended character to justify spending say 75K for a 2 hour rush from lions to ascension rather than spending a week or two frustrated, building PUGs, failing the missions, and getting there the traditional way
• customers are spending enough that they will go to reputable sources for their rushes and runs and scammers will run out of business
• if a person is scammed, he or she will have invested enough that he or she will be willing to report it and complain to others so that person is unable to scam others. When people are scammed out of 1K by a guy claiming to be able to run droks who promptly fails or goes offline, they forget about it. If they had paid what it is really worth, they would have invested enough to leave feedback good or bad.
• when runners are getting paid what their time is really worth, they get good at it and get better equipment
• when runners are paid what their time is really worth, they don't have to spam the trade channels as much
• when runners charge a lot, the only people who can afford to go are people who do have skill or a good understanding of the game mechanics. By charging more, you ensure that customers are not on their first character and totally skill-less.

I have always gathered great respect as a runner because I give the highest respect to my customers and will never cheat anyone. Please understand that there are legitimate reasons to hire a runner. At the exact moment the game is more frustrating than it is fun, and you are wasting more time than you are profiting and enjoying the game, you ought to consider an honest runner. There are places where you need to capture an elite skill (think of shield of judgment in the mineral springs), where most people take many hours wandering with 60% death penalty and a PUG or henchies, learning nothing, enjoying none of it, and not using their own time wisely, when they could just pay an expert 50K to run in there, sprint the entire area easily to spot where the right boss spawned, and then kill it so they can capture the skill in 20 minutes.

There are absolutely reasons to hire a runner. And there are absolutely some runners who are total losers. Look for the good ones and pay what they charge.

sure, let them run as long as they dont aggro or block.
I'll agree with you on this one.
But if they aggro a couple mobs in the begining, so will you.
How do you know they will attack the ones with lower AL? A second can matter if you are about to get hit by a mob.
They wouldn't come because he already sprinted pass them, and the slower guy is pulling them towards him.

Sorry I didn't quote all the text... it's easy for peeps to read it if they want.

I gotta admit, it is very tempting to get sarcastic because it's a pretty funny premise to say charge more as a solution, but you're probably right.

But having said that, what easily gets confused is the debate between the skill of the runner and whether or it's right for people who cannot obviously make it unless they get drug through. I don't think most people dispute the person running has the skill to do so....it's the other folks who pay.

I think it's cool to be able to run through, but not the fact that lowbies get drug through. I wouldn't be surprised if people have figured out a way of making it difficult for runners. How can they get in trouble, when they can just claim ignorance.

*Random Off-Topic* I hate sarcasm with a passion, its so classless