Unsportsmanlike conduct in Team Arena: Running Players

Sigil

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
This isnt about how to combat runners, this is a complaint that runners exist and if they are un-sportsman like!

If you or your team cannot defeat a runner then it is you who is lame, to force a draw is a perfectly acceptable strategy used by sportsmen all over the world... take chess for example..

if your oponent cant check mate you because your in a situation where you could run your peices around the board forever then this is classed as a DRAW. why should one say.. oh its a draw, so I'll just declare you the winner?

Why should a ranger who can run you around the arena for the rest of your life be the one to give up?.. has he lost?.. no... YOU have failed to defeat him! and probably its YOU who has had to concede.

This is about the runners skill, and your lack of skill... nothing to do with sportsmanship at all!
First - there is no 'Draw' in the GW arenas, win or lose only.

Second - Are you saying you play chess with the goal of getting a draw?

Personally, I play to win, but if you like your choices to be lose or draw...

Sagius Truthbarron

Sagius Truthbarron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Animal Factory [ZoO]

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
First off, don't post ingame screennames without the player's permission. Edit the screennames out of the images too.

Secondly, gwg isn't really a threat.

Third, I think this has been discussed time and time again. Here was the last thread on it:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=running+arena
This isn't in the forum guidelines, and the moderators only seem to get on to people who say it in their direct post. Let the moderators do their own job, I've never heard of them get on to anyone about this

-------------------------------------------------------------

It's so much more advantageous to just leave when you come up against a good runner. Especially when it's just your first or second win with your group.

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diplo
It is when the sole reason for a build is not to take part in combat but to run away with the deliberate intention of causing annoyance and frustration.
I go on every single night to cause annoyance and frustration!!

This is the whole point of PvP game! ... I LOVE causing the enemy greif, any possible way I can find to get them upset and complain.. Anything! I can do to make YOU cry and complain.. Well, I just love it! it only gives me more reason to continue! the easier that’s done the better..

You think this is any different in REAL combat, or in war?.. what do you think is happening in Iraq now.. people who can are running around hiding in the shadows and causing grief and frustration, they know they cant win.. but they still continue because they haven’t been defeated.. and YES they are doing it on PURPOSE :O

the only time your annoyed and frustrated is when you cant win.. grow up, stop crying, get a strategy to defeat them like most people do, I never EVER have problems with these kind of players... to me their strategy is shallow and easily defeated. If not, then I'll applaud them.

Again its not about sportsmanship.. Its competition, and nothing is being done against the rules of this competition,

The only thing un-sportsman like going on here is you people crying and moaning about how you cant defeat this simple strategy and having the cheek to use 'sportsmanship' as a pretence to vent this frustration.

smurfhunter

smurfhunter

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

my w/mo uses mending, orison, and healing breeze. you cant kill him.

Sand Scorpions [SS]

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
I go on every single night to cause annoyance and frustration!!

This is the whole point of PvP game! ... I LOVE causing the enemy greif, any possible way I can find to get them upset and complain.. Anything! I can do to make YOU cry and complain.. Well, I just love it! it only gives me more reason to continue! the easier that’s done the better..

You think this is any different in REAL combat, or in war?.. what do you think is happening in Iraq now.. people who can are running around hiding in the shadows and causing grief and frustration, they know they cant win.. but they still continue because they haven’t been defeated.. and YES they are doing it on PURPOSE :O

the only time your annoyed and frustrated is when you cant win.. grow up, stop crying, get a strategy to defeat them like most people do, I never EVER have problems with these kind of players... to me their strategy is shallow and easily defeated. If not, then I'll applaud them.

Again its not about sportsmanship.. Its competition, and nothing is being done against the rules of this competition,

The only thing un-sportsman like going on here is you people crying and moaning about how you cant defeat this simple strategy and having the cheek to use 'sportsmanship' as a pretence to vent this frustration.
did you just compare yourself with an iraqi insurgent?

...

aaanyway the point is not all classes (by class i mean ranger, monk etc) even *have* the capabilities to catch runners. like take warriors. their only snare would be to 'cripple' people, so if they use swords then its all well and good. what if you dont? i dont see you having any adrenaline at all when you run, so knockdowns and things like axe rake just arent happening.

or monks. i dont see how any kind of monk can catch any kind of runner unless they invest heavily in a secondary class like mesmers or something.

and are you like sadistic or something? i mean i see how it can be funny maybe the first time. or the second time. but... you are either a very creepy man or... your just talking

and its not like the running strategy is "easily countered" when you get a random team. its not, and its actually really lame. i dont get the point of causing 'grief and frustration' in what is (to me anyway) a GAME. you need to grow up, gw isnt 'war'

Diplo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
You think this is any different in REAL combat, or in war?.. what do you think is happening in Iraq now.. people who can are running around hiding in the shadows and causing grief and frustration, they know they cant win.. but they still continue because they haven’t been defeated.. and YES they are doing it on PURPOSE :O
Erm, it's a game, that is meant to be fun. It's not a realistic simulation of war and to even compare an online game with what is happening in Iraq is crass in the extreme. Perhaps your idea of fun is annoying people by acting like a prat but I think most people enjoy competing against each other, not chasing each other around in circles for an hour. If you want a "running around in a circle" simulator I suggest you go in your back garden and leave internet gaming to people who can differentiate reality from fantasy.

aron searle

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

Quote:
This is the whole point of PvP game! ... I LOVE causing the enemy greif, any possible way I can find to get them upset and complain.. Anything! I can do to make YOU cry and complain.. Well, I just love it! it only gives me more reason to continue! the easier that’s done the better..
I seriosly cant tell if this is a windup.

Quote:
You think this is any different in REAL combat, or in war?.. what do you think is happening in Iraq now.. people who can are running around hiding in the shadows and causing grief and frustration, they know they cant win.. but they still continue because they haven’t been defeated.. and YES they are doing it on PURPOSE :O
well people dont actually DIE for starters, ITS NOT REAL. I still cant tell if your serios, and if you are you have problems, go see a shrink.

and i aint kidding.

Charcoal Ann

Charcoal Ann

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

In a World of BADGERS!

Eternal Flame Brotherhood

well i recently spent half an hour chasing a very annoying ranger around. i now take Cry of Frustration. that screws em.
I've had runners on my team as well. i usually tell them to die like a man. face you foes! Know thy enemies face! Demonstrate honour and purpose in your actions! Be a true warrior! Show thine enemies the face that will ultimately destroy them! for you WILL triumph one day.

Raumoheru

Raumoheru

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
PvP is first and foremost, combat. Any sort of combat sport like martial arts and boxing would not tolerate behavior like this.

Theres a difference between being defensive and running away.

There is no honor in this. >.<
this is a videogame, there is no honor in it either way. i like to go to team arenas and run. its fun to make a bet with friends to see who can stay alive the longest. it is not unsportsmanlike. running is a sport.

i repeat, this is a videogame, it isnt real. different people have different veiws of what is fun. if you dont like it, deal with it. dont need to get all pissed off and act like your life is over because you cant catch up to a person in a game.

Hanuman li Tosh

Hanuman li Tosh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

garden of the gods, CO

Over Powered

N/

ther iraq comparison is just terrible as an analogy.

that is most certainly not what they are doing in iraq. they are killing people using guerilla warfare. if they were just running around there wouldnt be a war there.

running like a punk to frustrate people and guerilla warfare are not the same thing, and its not a viable strategy against a worthy opponent.

the only reason this 'strat' even 'works' is becasue people dont bring a counter for it.

what he is trying to refer to here is referenced in the art of war, but not the running part; just the pissing the enemy off to the point the make an error. if he thinks its funny to frustrate people for fun thats lovely. it doesent work on intelligent people anyway.

as a parting thought:

if i were in random arenas, and someone was running and my team couldnt stop them i would leave my team anyway for not thinking ahead. the only way i dont bring a stopping spell/skill or hexes is when im healing monk. even a prot monk could stop a runner.

Hanuman li Tosh

Hanuman li Tosh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

garden of the gods, CO

Over Powered

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raumoheru
this is a videogame, there is no honor in it either way.
there is as much honor to it as each player brings to it.

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

There seems to be several different yet related issues here that people are fighting back and forth over about and most times theyre not even fighting over the same issue.

Yes, you should bring a counter to stop runners. I think most people do have one and don't have a problem with that. But the people that keep repeating the same tired line of "bring a counter" don't seem to realize that there are DEDICATED runners that aren't easy to bring down if you only have one counter.

Yes, you should just leave if you encounter such runners. Most times I have no problem with killing runners since I do have a speed buff myself. But for those times where it's a running/snaring/barb trapping ranger, I have no hope of catching the guy so I just leave after 5 minutes of trying.

The issue is that it isnt fun. Fighting someone is fun. Chasing after someone is not. Having a player on your team that actually fights is useful. Having a teammate that does nothing but run is useless. He helps no one but himself. I thought this was a team based game.

And if you really think the point of PVP is to cause other players grief and you're comparing it to the Iraqi war, you really need more human contact...or less of it, depending the types of people you're in contact with currently.

PieXags

PieXags

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Infinite Representation Of Pie And Its Many Brilliances

Christ ANOTHER one of these, how'd I miss this one? Bring a slow down, damnit. It's the goddamn team arenas, if you don't want to get screwed by a runner bring some slow down or something 'eh? All in all though, it's the fault of the GW PvP system, everything is tiny arena style battles (even in tombs, just more groups), and it doesn't make it difficult for one guy to ruin a fight.

But as far as I'm concerned, not being able to take down a runner is the same as not being able to take down a smite team or something like that. Just another build you can't beat, next time bring something that can.

heist23

Journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

piexags has a point...the running build is a so simple, that people overlook it and forget to bring a snare of some sort. for now, the answer is just to bring hamstring if you're a warrior, any sort of water spell that causes slow-down if you're an elementalist, crippling shot or pin down if you're a ranger, imagined burden or crippling anguish (and many others, i'd guess) if you're a mesmer. if you're a necromancer, i have no idea. monks...well, you're kind of screwed seeing as there aren't any sort of speed buffs or debuffs in their lines.

running is an exploit and is being heavily abused, in my opinion. i'm tired of finding a group of 10-year old w/mos running around in a couple damned circles cause they think they're funny. that pisses me off more than anything else that anyone can do.

i hope i never meet you in the arenas, snowman. something tells me that i could be more productive doing homework, or studying for my finals....

(hm, this also brings me to another train of thought. people like this could also be driving others off the arenas...just a thought.)

Vermilion Okeanos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

If one know how to cut corners... then that one wouldn't even need a running or snare skill to handle such situation.

But obviously, snare and running skill are nice... although I usually don't carry them =/

When you chase, the best thing to do is not just click and chase... you should manuever your own character making shortcut, not starring into their butt.

Teufel Eldritch

Teufel Eldritch

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Shadar Logoth

The Legendary Majestic 12

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
there is as much honor to it as each player brings to it.
I would even go on to say that there should be honor in everything a person does. Whether it be real life or in-game. Honor is not something you put on & take off like a coat. It is something that you have inside you as a person.

If you have no honor in a video game then you have no honor outside a video game. The soul, the mind, the spirit, the heart, the whatever that makes a person a person is the same whether they be in-game or not.

Tyroie

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

E/Mo

I have two opinions. One, is that -anything- that can be done in a video game is a viable tactic, because we can't have referees to call fouls. On that note, it's the game's fault, in a way.

Secondly is that, yeah. People who go out of their ways to accomplish nothing else but to A) Kill themselves, or B) Just not die, are indeed jerks. However, neither a runner nor a chaser has won a match - neither one should feel obligated to leave. It simply becomes a waiting game, and I think you'll find that most people are very impatient.

Sometimes I play these 'waiting games', sometimes not, but I almost consider them a part of PVP now, though fortunately they are very occasional. I have won a couple by just standing there while the other person whacks away at me though - stand perfectly still, don't say anything, and only use the skills you need to use to keep yourself alive. After around 10 minutes of watching them just attack you, attack them, and hope they've gone AFK. This has worked for me a couple times. If it doesn't work, try again 10 minutes later.

But yeah. Any time you enter a 4 vs 4, you do kinda have to accept that that's a possibility and just be ready to either leave, or wait them out.

Vlad Bane

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jun 2005

Heroes Etc

N/R

The GW community is just a reflection of our r/l ones. Some wake up and wonder how they can make someones life miserable, they lie, cheat, steal, destroy, others work go home cook dinner and some are so stupid they defy belief. Don't be surprised who you come into contact with in GW thats the human race for you, some are good and some are bad.
Annoying but true.

banishd

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Ivy League [IVY]

Mo/

haha natures <3

anyways

to the o.p.

stop whining
and bring a snare
Your fault going into arenas without a snare

Eet GnomeSmasher

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

In my head

Quote:
Originally Posted by banishd
haha natures <3

anyways

to the o.p.

stop whining
and bring a snare
Your fault going into arenas without a snare
Did we really need YET another "stop whining bring a snare" generic reply? At least think of your own original flame.

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

You all are talking about rangers screwing some1 else his game, but what u don`t seem to realise is that we all do it all the time.

I am a ranger(<<no running ranger) myself, and I would love to get into a team with some qualities and get through the first 2 rounds in tombs.
But as a ranger, I have so little chance of even getting in a team, that I will probably never get through 2nd round. And I don`t hear you saying that you are screwing some1 else his game, but you actually are for always saying that rangers suck<< meaning that they won`t get invited in any group anymore if u post it enough times.
I really stopped trying getting in a good tombs team, as it doesn`t work anyway.
Another example is leaving during a battle/mission(and don`t tell me you have never done that, cause 99% of the people here have<including me>).
The team then misses some1 causing them to fail the mission.

And I totally agree that running is a strategy. I mean, I am not complaining that I can`t beat an invinceble W/Mo, << he or she just had a better build then i had, so its my mistake.
And did I ever hear so much people complaining that they are instantly killed by smiters or anything like that? Don`t think so.

And about the honor... I don`t really know about that one. I mean that u guys are saying that running is dishonourable, I just call it smart.

Any solutions to this problem which A-net could put in??
-Disable running in PvP<<why not disable smiting prayers in PvP then?
-Give every proffesion running skills<<bad idea, skills are in my opinion meant for specific proffessions, and you would just spoil even more the proffesion of ranger/warrior.

KuTeBaka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
I go on every single night to cause annoyance and frustration!!

This is the whole point of PvP game! ... I LOVE causing the enemy greif, any possible way I can find to get them upset and complain.. Anything! I can do to make YOU cry and complain.. Well, I just love it! it only gives me more reason to continue! the easier that’s done the better..

You think this is any different in REAL combat, or in war?.. what do you think is happening in Iraq now.. people who can are running around hiding in the shadows and causing grief and frustration, they know they cant win.. but they still continue because they haven’t been defeated.. and YES they are doing it on PURPOSE :O

the only time your annoyed and frustrated is when you cant win.. grow up, stop crying, get a strategy to defeat them like most people do, I never EVER have problems with these kind of players... to me their strategy is shallow and easily defeated. If not, then I'll applaud them.

Again its not about sportsmanship.. Its competition, and nothing is being done against the rules of this competition,

The only thing un-sportsman like going on here is you people crying and moaning about how you cant defeat this simple strategy and having the cheek to use 'sportsmanship' as a pretence to vent this frustration.
In war, they are actually trying to win, not just running around for the sake of running around.
okay, tell me how you beat two w/mos running around with condition removal, hex removal and alternating charge between them?

Medion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Netherlands

Criple them
interupt them
and then kill them

It`s not so difficult as you guys think it is

KuTeBaka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medion
Criple them
interupt them
and then kill them

It`s not so difficult as you guys think it is
okay, you cripple, they use mend ailment. Mend has like a 1/2 second cast time? and if you interupt one , the other will cast it.

Diplo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

UK

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel Eldritch
If you have no honor in a video game then you have no honor outside a video game.
Exactly! Couldn't have put it better myself.

Just because you can get away with being a jerk in a video game because you know no referee is going to send you off is no excuse. Just because you can sling insults to people you would never dare speak to like that in real life doesn't mean it's acceptable. Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean it's right.

All the people who say, "It's a game, deal with it" are missing the point. People are still people whether they are in a real or a virtual world. The anonymity the internet affords doesn't mean you can forget about the usual civilities that makes social intercourse enjoyable. If you can only get your kicks from annoying others then, frankly, there is something sadly missing in your life.

Tactical-Dillusions

Tactical-Dillusions

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Grimsby, UK

R/

ArenaNets official policy on runners....

**Running is a valid strategy in arena fights, since there are many ways to counter such activity.**

Ristaron

Ristaron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Canada, eh?

Legion Of Valhalla

E/

All ANet needs to do is remove any running skills from someone's skill bar when they go into any arena.
Any above the first.
Ex. W/R has Sprint, Escape, and Storm Chaser all on his bar. He is happier than a pig in shit knowing he's going to piss people off when he gets into the arena and simply runs around. He gets transported to the match, and cries when he finds that Escape and Storm Chaser have been removed from his skill bar, leaving him not only with only one running skill, but two empty slots to teach him a lesson.

chippxero

chippxero

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

norfolk

Super Anti Rabbit Squad [SARS]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lag Hell
this has given me an idea for a hoh/gvg run... u must have a team of 8 dedicated runners with ALOT oftime on their hands, in every match they would jus run around like crazy dodging everything, and boring the other team to quit, and using this tactic to win >_>

yes...i am very stoned right now so dont ask me wat i was thinkin...
I you ever get your all runner team please take a video of the match for comedy perposes, i'd love to see it and would be perfect with the Benny Hill music over the top of it.

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

You can just target him, hit the action button to forever chase him, then go get lunch, sleep, etc. If he's still running by the time you return, just tell him what you've done while he's been running.

sybban

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Beaufort Fun Park

I don't remember the guild name

Mo/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by One and Two
People who run in order to piss people off....

Fall into this category of FAG (not the guild)
1. runners
2. scammers
3. gold beggars
4. dumb shits
5. random leavers

I do believe the majority of people, including Anet, know about these types of people. There isnt much to be done....except cry nerf. Go, join the club, especially since dodge and storm chaser just got buffed.
You forgot know-it-all's who have an aggresive opnion on everything

Also, if you're the last guy alive...what would you do? Oh let's see you can run straight into everyone and give up or you can make them earn it. If they can't catch you, that sucks for them. Big boohoos all around, let's have a crying circle

chris_nin00

chris_nin00

Dun dun dun

Join Date: Aug 2005

Reddit Guild

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by sybban
You forgot know-it-all's who have an aggresive opnion on everything

Also, if you're the last guy alive...what would you do? Oh let's see you can run straight into everyone and give up or you can make them earn it. If they can't catch you, that sucks for them. Big boohoos all around, let's have a crying circle
Quoted because it can't be stressed enough!
Who cares about honor? There is no such thing in this game.
What you gonna do when they come after you? Run your ass off!

sybban

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Beaufort Fun Park

I don't remember the guild name

Mo/W

*edit* oh wait were you on my side? doesn't matter anyway, this is for anyone who disagrees*edit*
Honor? It's a video game. I play with no pants on most of the time or in a towel. Also I'm usually drinking.

When you play GTA, do you do all the missions like they were ment to, or do you flip out and kill everyone in the city? Exactly.

Or how about in Morrowind when someone is being snooty in Balmora? You whip out you daedric longbow and kill all of those pretentious bastards

Why? Because it's fun. It's a game

If it ruins your fun, it's because you are taking it too seriously.

In the words of Bruno from Animal House:

"Over? Over? Nothing is over until we say it is!"

Blah blah it's unfair, who cares. I like chasing people. The people who ruin the game are the ones who complain everytime something doesn't go their way. "I wanted a red popsicle not a blue one!", that's what it sounds like when I see complaints

BurningPants

BurningPants

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

That Other Guild [Tog]

I saw that the res sig in your skill bar was still active, did you try to use it earlier, before your allies left?

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

@The argument: "It's not fun for me to have to chase someone I'm not capable of killing, therefore he should not be allowed to run".

Well guess what, you expecting that he should commit suicide for no valid reason is ruining his fun. Running players are players too, and their right to have fun by not being forced to commit suicide has just as much merit as anyone else's claim to fun.

The "nerf runners because I can't kill them and don't have patience for them!" crowd seems to want to claim some sort of "moral authority" over putting a smarter/better/more patient player's ability to have fun behind their own. Yet in reality, they have no valid claim to such moral authority.

sybban

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Beaufort Fun Park

I don't remember the guild name

Mo/W

Ya holy poop

Maybe all the complainers should make a game where only they can make the rules .

You know who else did that? Hitler

That's right, stupid facists

Arturo02

Arturo02

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

See that third planet from the sun?

Sacred Forge Knights

R/Me

I nominate Tactical Dillusions for the "Rez of the Week" award

Lorir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/

I dont think runners should be able to get away with it...i actualy have screenshots of a TA fight at 266 minutes (yes, over 4 hours). Maybe im just spiteful, but im not letting a team win just by having 2 players with nothing but run and evade skills. (It only ended when i got disconnected.)
I wonder if i hold the record for the longest round in an arena?

Tactical-Dillusions

Tactical-Dillusions

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Grimsby, UK

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo02
I nominate Tactical Dillusions for the "Rez of the Week" award
Thankyou so much Aturo

It's true. ArenaNet support told me via email that they have no problem with runners.
They even told me that there are many ways to stop a runner or slow them down... "really? Gosh!" lol
I learn something everyday.

Old Dood

Old Dood

Middle-Age-Man

Join Date: May 2005

Lansing, Mi

W/Mo

Runners are annoying....kind of like that darn Pig you are suppose to chase down and bring back to the farmer. Maybe the Assassin Character will have Trip Wires for a weapon.

Weezer_Blue

Weezer_Blue

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Just a Box in a Cage

Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]

That's called a "griefer". Welcome to the internet.

Nexx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Wow. People are waiting 2 hours because of a runner?

Perhaps it's because i'm a casual player and can't understand the intricate thinking process of the 1337 GW players but wouldn't it be a better idea to just leave? Instead of bitching and moaning during those 2 hours, you could have probably racked up a lot more points. =T

Sure, some would argue that running is valid tactics against teams that don't bring ensnaring skills or that it's not sportmanship~like to run but honestly, do you think that 75~100 measily faction points is worth 2 hours? I don't think so.