Game Economy Suggestion - Fissure Armor

I read the most recent Fansite Friday article, and agree with everything ANet says. But I have one problem with the way they're going about things:

Fissure Armor is impossible to attain for the average player.

If 75% of us don't even have 20k (According to thier survey), how could ANet, with a clean conscience, make Fissure Armor the price that it is? It would take FAR TOO LONG of a time playing the game to earn enough gold for even one piece of Fissure Armor, let alone a whole set. If one Glob of Ectoplasm plus one Shard of Ecto costs 15k together, plus the 15k for the Forgemaster to make, PLUS the already basic supplies needed to make the armor, wouldn't it make sense to lower the Ecto/Shard requirement per armor piece?

I mean.... I dont even think it's that crazy of an idea just to make the Fissure Armor Requirements look something like this:

- Fissure Chest Piece : 1 Glob of Ectoplasm
1 Obsidian Shard
45 Iron Ingots
20 Bolts of Cloth

I mean really.... The only reason you would want to buy the Fissure armor is for the look, right? You can get the same stats with DROKNAR's armor, for crying out loud. I dont see why ANet would make the requirements for Fissure Armor impossible to attain. (After all, if we all play the way they want us to, without farming, we'd get, what, like 1k a day?). So if you add 15k, per piece of armor, that's roughly 175k for a set of Fissure armor (Which is ALOT of money to work for, for the average player), as oposed to about 80k for Citadel Armor, as oposed to about 15k for Droknars.

Then ANet would just have to make the Obsidian/Ectoplasm drops even more rare, and still have traders sell them for 5k/10k(respectively). So that way, if you do happen to get an Ecto drop, you're 1/10th of the way closer to your fissure armor. And chances are you won't get another drop.

If all the Fissure Armor is good for is it's looks, why would ANet make it impossible to attain? I dont think that an extra 100k for the best looking armor in the game is unreasonable. I DO think, though, having to save up 1000k just to look cool is very unreasonable.

The FoW armor is mainly there as a money sink, and quite a good one as well IMO. Also, it's not meant to be something everyone has, it's meant to be something that makes your character unique. It's supposed to be a lot of work to get it (and that is certanly the case).

If they actually improved your character you'd have something to argue about. Right now they're there simply to show that you're rich and can afford to show it.

So, by creating this mecca for all Guild Wars Money Collectors, they're just encouraging a good number of farmers to continue farming and looking for exploits to make them more powerful.

Tailon, I understand there's suposed to be alot of work involved. But if ANet is discouraging farming, how are we suposed to make 1000k (Or whatever Fissure Armor is worth) while still even maintaining interest in the game? I assure you, a great number of "average gamers" don't want to spend months of thier life playing the game and saving thier gold just to "look cool". The rewards aren't worth the process. For an average gamer (Again, the average gamer is who ANet is targeting thier game at), 175k is, in my opinion, a high enough goal to strive for. I've reached 200k one time I think, and I would spend alot of my time in the summer playing.

Align, I disagree with you that "They're simply to show that you're rich and can afford to show it". ANet strives to make the playing ground level for everyone. By my inferrence, ANet is trying to do the exact oposite of what you're saying. Thier purpose of Fissure Armor is not to show off how wealthy you are. To some extent, it is, because the better looking your armor is, the wealthier you are, yes. But 1000k rich is different from 200k rich. To reach 1000k rich, you would need to have either:
a) Played Guild Wars so much that it's unhealthy
or
b) Found some way to exploit a money-making process (Farming, bots, etc.)

1000k is out of hand, insane, uncontrolable wealth. 200k is not.

In fact, if the Fissure Armor DID improve your stats, then i WOULDN'T have anything to complain about. That extra AL or Energy Boost is everything a player could need to make a new build, or to make thier character more powerful. And that little extra boost could be worth the extra 800k to someone. So I disagree with you on both counts of your argument.

I strongly disagree with that idea:

The Fissure Armor is the ONLY long term motivation in all of Guild Wars. I realize that the game basically has a "everyone gets everything for free" attitude, but ONE item you actually have to work for doesn't hurt. Especially since it doesn't improve your character anyway.

wrong.

it is a money sink of grand proportions based strictly on being one of the few who can afford it.

lower the requirements enough that a casual player can get it quickly and you destroy its value.

LEVEL PLAYING field exists as this is cosmetic showing that you have the rarest armor and very few others have it.

it is a status symbol for the very rich

I know it's long term. But if you're following ANet's rules, it would take months and months to get Fissure Armor. If it was lowered to maybe 200k for a set, it would still be a long term goal for the AVERAGE player. MOST players don't even have 20k. Did you know that?

Anet talks about trying to get all of the money out of the hands of a very small number of people. It's a thing they're striving for. They're just encouraging people to farm and become one of those select few by making prices so high. Why do people farm in the first place? It's the reason why the Invinci-Monk build was SO popular; because the market for Ecto and Obsidian is so big. Why is it big? Because most people want the armor.

Fantus, I dont think this game is so Left-wing that "everyone thinks everythign should be handed to them". But don't let your wealth fool you... You may think that buying something for 10k isn't a big deal at all. 10k, to most players, is an enormous amount of money.

Again, I want to emphasize that ANet does not want, by any means, people to be insanely rich.

Which is why Fissure Armor is there - it makes insanely poor. :P

The one thing I concede is that if prices for Ecto would get into the 17-20k range, this is over the top, because it would result in the Fissure set costing like 2.5 million gold. That's a sum which is unreachable even for most hardcore players as you'd have to do massive item trading or selling runner services to get this rich.
However, I think that a complete Fissure set should cost no less than 1,000k if bought. Anything else is not long term. Yes, I define long term in "has to be worked on for months". Yes, it means that casual players will never have one. Fissure armor is the only item in the game that rewards hardcore players. It should stay that way. Give us hardcore players ONE thing to look forward to, too. As I said, it doesn't make us stronger than you anyway.

There's a difference between "casual gamers" and "average gamers".

If the vast majority of people only have, at the most, 50k, to make Fissure Armor 1000k is kind of hypocratic of Anet.

You make a good point about the hardcore players needing something to look forward to, yes. And 1 Ecto and 1 Shard per piece is probably too small... But 1000k? If Fissure Armor cost about 500k, I wouldnt be complaining, but I think Anet is just making a case against itself here.

Everyone i talk to that has fissure on atleast on character says they got the ecto from solo farming, or from playing the game earlier on where money was easier to attain, how is it fair to players that missed UW soloing, or havent played the game in times where gold was easier to come by.

They nerf every half decent farming spot within a week or so, but they took a month to close UW if not more, and its still do-able now but requires a lot more time and wields worse drops that it did before.

Its like saying, you can either spend the rest of the year farming 10k a night for the armour, or forcing people to go to ebay to get the cash, which in turn encourages bots.

You can get FoW armor in 2 ways:

1. either getting very lucky and finding that sword/axe everyone wants worth few millions + few hunderd Ectoplasm,

2. or farming every day for one month or so.

So if I do not want to play whole day, and I am not lucky at all (never found ANY 15>50 in 5 months or so of playing) I can not get "best looking armor" in the game?

Give me 15>50 Storm Bow for each 100 consecutive 4 vs. 4 wins or give me death.

FoW armor is overrated anyway. >.> The only one i like Female Monk..

I think the 1 mil price is over the top. On the contrary, it should not be so cheap that it would take a month to make by a casual 3 hour a week gamer.

If they do change it, they should modify the ecto and shards to about a tenth their current status. That would mean it costs around 150K, which is more logical considering it is 10 times the citadel/grotto.

Fissure = 10X grotto/citadel = 10X droknar

This would be a better proportion than
Fissure = 1000X grotto/citadel = 10X droknar

But then again, decreasing the amount of cost would mean more players have it and it will turn into 15K platemail.

When I just got the 15k armor on my ele/monk 1/200 people had 15k. Not 1/5 like now.

[QUOTE=Melkor of ZoSo]There's a difference between "casual gamers" and "average gamers".

If the vast majority of people only have, at the most, 50k, to make Fissure Armor 1000k is kind of hypocratic of Anet.

QUOTE]

the fissure armor is a long term goal for only a few super hardcore gamers and some people have said the price should be HIGHER not lower.

NOW

what do we have for a long term goal for the AVERAGE gamer?

Why we have the 15 K VANITY armor.

And what do we have for a long term goal for the TRULY CASUAL gamer?

Why we have the 1.5K DROKNAR FORGE set of armor

there is a long term goal for each class of gamer.

FORGE ARMOR
15 K ARMOR
FISSURE ARMOR

Here's the thing; you don't NEED FoW armour. If it increased your stats, THEN you'd have a legitamite arguement. But it is quite unneccesary. Therefore, there is no need for the price decrease, as there is no loss in NOT having it.

/not-signed, even with the system there is I will never have FoW armour.

/not signed

Eltargrim pretty much said what i wanted to say

And how many people with Fissure armor bought their money on eBay? Buying money on eBay to buy Fissure armor isn't a "long term in-game investment" as many of you are claiming Fissure armor is suppose to be. I'd assume we'd have a drop in Gold sales on eBay if the Fissure armor wasn't so expensive. What else would someone need to buy 1000 plat for?
If ANet is correct about 75% of players having less than 20k, I see no problem with lowering the cost/number of Fissure armor supplies. I agree it should be lowered to roughly 200k a set. For a cosmetic look, and no upgraded stats, 1000k is too much to ask, following ANet's rules.

Buying money on eBay is a "criminal act" according to the Terms of Service. So your point is to change the game world because there are criminals in it or did I get something wrong?

1) it is great that is cosmetic only. You don't need it!
You just saved 1000k. Congratulations.

2) 15k armors is a money sink and help game economy. The prices of ecto's and shards are player driven, and are the cause of the expensiveness of FoW armor. After all, it takes 60k as a fixed price by ANet, so 9940k is made up mostly by the players. Don't blame ANet for the madness of its players.

If the Fissure armour was cheap, everybody would have it.
I don't plan to get Fissure armour cos I don't think I can afford it and even if I could, I don't think I'd wanna spend it all on one set of armour.

I don't get why every casual player wants Fissure armour.
Is it fair that a player who buys Fissure armour today spends ~1.5mil and you buy your Fissure tomorrow and spend ~150k?
150k is ridiculously low for Fissure armour as my 15k platemail cost me about 100k including materials and dyes.

I very much doubt, and happily too, that Anet would reduce the cost of Fissure armour.

No one explained to me yet why this armor should have to be insanely hard to get. Money sink up your...
With the current prices this armor costs around 3 millions (ectos up to 20 plat, shards up to 9 plat). There are only two groups of people who can afford that, e-Bayers and Traderreset-Luckys. Farming this reaches a level of stupidity and boredom that is ridiculous. Getting it the normal way (i.e. not applying exploits or abusing bugs) it is downright impossible to get with some minor exceptions. Come one, get it in your mind. Each griffon run equals you maybe 1.5 plat. On occasion you can sell an item, however most persons don't pay much anymore due to the green items so that "perfect" axe will probably equal you 4-5 more plat. And only when you're lucky. And the harder you try, the more hard it will get - auto-antifarm routine will activate itself and stop you drop dead in the tracks.

So we have 3.000.000.
And we have griffon runs that give you 1.500 plat each run. Not counting the occasional gold item in you'd be doing 2.000 griffon runs. And mind you... no exploits.
Let's be happy and say each run takes you roughly 5 minutes.
2.000 runs x 5 minutes - 10.000 minutes of mindless buttonsmashing and farming. And there are STILL folks saying this is okay and in order? Come on, you can't be THAT blind. The price for the fissure armor is way of scale due to the vendor system.
The part in the opening post however is ridiculously low though. Sorry.

I'd appreciate a system where you could exchange some other things to make ecto (as this is the mainsource of problems). Like a collector wanting 150 glitterdust for one ecto.

Hum, the real problem with fow armor is the only gold requirement. It is supposed to be here to reward hardcore pve players. But farming / bots / or buying gold on e-bay really don't deserve any reward.
The best thing would be to put other requirements : (just examples) completed all missions and bonus for boots/helmet , completed sorrow furnace for legs / gloves, completed the whole UW (or at least some missions as in fow to reach the forgemaster) for the chest. And then a high price (like 500 k for all the set) but reasonable. This way it would reward GOOD Pve players and not stupid bot users / e-bayers or even farmers (really easy to copy a build and then spend 500 hours to kill same monsters, no need to reward that).

That's my point of view, getting insanely rich is NOT something to be proud of in gw . Completing all Pve missions is something else

This is my first MMORPG but I think its safe to say that all MMORPGs are the same, if you want to get rich, you have to farm.

I'll not bring eBayers into the argument for the simple fact that they don't play the game it was meant to be played. Running is meant to be. Farming is meant to be. Why? Because Anet did not dissuade openly about this, but they have regarding eBayers. Don't tell me about nerfs and monster buffs. I said "openly".

It is really easy to make 1.5 million, 5 million, or even 10 million. It just takes hours upon hours of tedious farming. Nobody ever said it was hard. You can make money anywhere, even in Ascalon. How much time you're willing to put into it is what makes the difference.

I'd like Anet to make it harder to get FoW armour and its from Lavendange19's suggestion.

1. Keep the current material and gold requirements.
2. Combine both those together, and those who wear Fissure armour can garner some respect. I've read countless times that when someone complains about Fissure armour, it will lead to eBay. At least with requirement no. 2, they have proven that they do know the game, and have played it throughout with that character.

However, all this leads to another thing.
Quoting myself,
Is it fair to those who intend to get Fissure tomorrow that they now have to do something extra?
I suppose the HoD sword can be taken into account when arguing this.
And since Anet has not removed the swords completely, screwing the newer players, I don't see why they won't do the same regarding Fissure armour.

No thank you.
But the original money sink is only as big as the normal 15k armors (60k). And I don't hear any whining about them. The value of the ecto's and shards that is spended is variable, and you can blame your fellow players for the prices if you don't like it.
The fact that everyone and his brother wants it drives up prices.
There is no 'reason' why this should be insanely hard to get, except that everyone thinks it is makes them look cool. Because this mindsetting has kicked in, everyone wants it, and that drives up prices. With the high current prices, there is also a sense of accomplishment to those that can obtain it (without buying money from e-bay). It has become some sort of status symbol like a Ferrari or Porsche. For this reason, I don't think ANet will step in to make it more accessible.

To me, most of the FoW armors are ugly as hell, and was pretty happy with a 'normal' 15k armor. If you just like the looks of the FoW armor, you just have bad luck it is so popular. Much like black dye. Fashion comes with a (outrageous) price. And as long as players buy it for the outrageous prices they are now, I'm afraid for you that won't change.

Alright this is pissin me off.

They've given you good reasons why it's expensive, and why your demand
is unfounded. But for the sake of skimming allow me to restate the points,
in bold underline italic etc:

1. IT'S NO DIFFERENT FROM DROKNARS ARMOR.

You can literally be just out of forge with your 1.5k armor and be on equal
AC footing as someone of the same class with 3 million GP armor. It's
cosmetic, and offers no additional benefit.

2. 'THE CASUAL GAMER' DOESN'T NEED IT.

And if they WANT it, they're gonna have to work for it. The materials/cash
are hard to get for a REASON.

3. IT WOULD BE A SLAP IN THE FACE TO THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY
WORKED HARD TO GET IT.

I don't know about you, but I have yet to see a FOW armored character
that uses 1337speak or aggro's everything in sight. Playing for that long
can refine a person as a player. They don't do stupid things as often,
they watch their aggro a little bit better than a '0MF6 I H4V3 T3H DR0K5
4RM0R I PR4WN U' meatshield. It's dedicated armor for dedicated gamers.

Do I have it? No. It's just too big a cashsink for me, and I make better money
selling materials to them than trying to acquire them for myself.

Do I want it? Sure. But not by half assing the requirements like you suggest.
Leave it as is, you lose nothing by not having the armor.

/not-signed
/end rant

Done flaming? Okay back to the facts.
Most of the folks that do have it, have payed a lot LESS for it. Which slap in the face again? Oops, they exploited the trader reset to get uber rich, uber fast. Now yes i see how they worked for it . Then there might have been the 55/105 exploiters. Now that was honest work again? Uhm... no. That was merely abusing a skill.
Ebayers? Sure thing, they "earned" their FOW Armor. How did they work for it? RL Work does count? Sure thing i should have the FOW Armor asap then.

The list of examples goes on and on and on. Facts are: Most who have it did not have to put in those insane amounts of work you now have to put in. And i don't care if it is because others want the fissure armor too. 3 millions is simply way of the scale.

Here's my beef with FoW armour.

I agree with you guys that there should be something special and rare out there for the absolutely devoted (and lucky because your server doesn't always have favor of the gods), but....

There really aren't a lot of different looks in GW, let's face it. This was probably the first thing we all noticed about GW when we started playing; people generally all look the same. It's fantastic they have different styles of armour, but not so fantastic when the different looks are not as readily attainable as the rest of them. That's supposed to suggest they somehow look better too.

Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be something unique that a very select few manage to attain. But the fact that looking slightly different is the hard to attain goal says to me they just haven't done much in the looks department. You'd think the rare stuff would actually give you something tangable like 10 bonus attribute points or something.

So in summery... GIVE US MORE FASHION! I don't want to meet my "accidental twin" anymore.

The fact that it doesn't is what makes it unnecessary.
If it did, it'd be an unfair advantage.

What kind of advantage? Have you ever really looked how much 1 skill point actually improves your spells? Hardly noticable! So my Aegis runs for 1 second longer (every second skill point, I think). So I heal for 8 more health points with Orison. Wooptie doo!

Alright, maybe in PvP it's a concern. So how about a strictly PvE benefit? Extra storage. Whatever! But different (not necessarily better, just different) fashion? C'mon.

As many people said before. You Don't Need It.

It is a money sink.

How hard is it for people to grasp that concept?

I bought my Fissure on my monk by getting EXTREMELY lucky and finding an almost priceless drop that i sold for almost 900k (thank god there are people that pay rediculous prices out there). I am proud to say that i didnt ebay mine and yes i did get lucky and get a good drop, but that can theoretically happen to anyone in this game. but no ebaying mine, and yes it took a long time to get anything worth selling for a decent amount of cash to be able to build mine. Did i need it? no. Did i want it? yeah why not, it looks good and its not the cheap astetics version either (well arms are, but chest is judges and legs are wanderers for resistances). Did i have other characters that needed equipment? not really. I had a good shield and sword for my warrior and the collectors fire staff for my ele, and they both had good armor, so i figured that i would splurge on the char that i play the most.

Fissure armor is a normal 15k armor, but what makes it so expensive is the ecto and shards because you can't craft them and anet didnt make the armor that expensive players did, the demand for wanting the next new armor that looks better then the normal 15k armor's from citadel and grotto

Im gathering material for my FoW armor, and i ddont accept proposition of lowering price for FoW, cause FoW is rank of experienced player. And btw ebay money buyers sucks :F.

i like the looks of some of the higher end armours, but, like many players that dont have the time or the ability to play more than a few hours a week, for whatever reason, i will probably never be able to own even a single peace of those armours.

now, where as i dont mind there being goals for the mad, the bad and the dangerous to know (the average, the hardcore and the OMG you spend HOW many hours a day on guildwars?0.o! people)
i think theres definately a lack of differences. like someone said, im sick of ether meeting my 'accidental twin' or in the case of my main, who is blue as she can get, sick of mistaking my fellows around me for my friends, who are similar to them.

the fact that said expesive armours are player driver, have little or no diferences other than thier looks and the cost and hardwork of getting them makes them uber to some.
if i know player has worked thier character to the bone, for months on end, doing missions and working in game, rather than farming or goldEbuying, then i will respect them, sure.

the fastest and most fair way to get that cash from people is simple.
rather than upping the prices, or adding yet another thing that the average gamer or the casual gamer, and lets face it, there are a heluva lot of us causals out there, gameheads, admit it. its all well and good making stuff harder cause the HCR people say stuff is too easy, but its a visious circle people.
hardcor says, 'i can solo the underworld' underworld gets harder...later on, harcore whines again, it gets harder, an then your left with a game that only the hardcore gamejockies can survive in...not fun, i have seen it, it sucks pants bigtime >.<

so, since casual seems to be the way to go these days anyway....(just look at the total doggymess games that get flogged to us every holiday season by big names and film licenses tital that are a 3 day and its done game)

why not do something thats quick to get, easy but theres LOTS of DIFFERENT versions of it, and you can dye it to your hearts delight, in MANY different colors.?

they have already expressed an interest in TOWN clothes....i mean, you could run about in old ascalon in your undies, if your high enough level, so why not make no armour, no energy and no bonus CLOTHING?
all types can be worn by all calsses, providing they are the same sex.
so, i can buy a plain necromancers blouse, dye it and wear it on my ranger girl.

more items of clothing=more dyes bought=more different looks and more cash sunk into the goldpit.
if ANYONE can buy the clothing, but styles and types varied in different areas too, some folks would have to get lots. others would just examine all of them, find the stuff they liked the most, and stick with those.
but if its easy to by, comes in a huge variety of styles and tastes, anyone can have fun.

and no one has to buy gold, or farm, or run folks to pay for them, just carry on as normal.

we already have the FoW stuff for the hardcore set, why not make something now for everyone else, that 75% that Anet says dont have even 20k....im one of them, and i doubt i will ever be out of that number.

Think about this:
If the hardcore players didn't have Fissure armor to blow their cash on, they would blow their cash on buying stuff you wanted instead, and everything would be a lot more expensive.

It's cosmetic. That's as good as moneysinks can get. I don't have the cash, I don't need the armor, and I don't want it. I'm just happy to know that it exists, so people can flush thousands of platinum out of the game economy every time they buy one.

[QUOTE=Undivine]What kind of advantage? Have you ever really looked how much 1 skill point actually improves your spells? Hardly noticable! QUOTE]

that 10 attribute points raises an additional attribute from 0 all the way up to 4 for that tiny increase you want.

if you dont have to sacrifice points somewhere else try to tell me that a free level 4 is not a MAJOR advantage

EXACTLY! The economy is player driven, so you cannot say it is too much or too little. If it were too much or too little, it would change. The value of FoW armor is the value the players give it. Of course people want it, of course they try hard to have it, and its fantastic that it doesn't really help you any. Speaking as someone who has four full sets of fissure armor (one on each character), I kind of wish it was more expensive as I have nothing else to do until the expansion comes out. But it will always cost what it costs, and it is tragic that some people who have it scammed or bought gold on eBay to get it, but that just further makes it less meaningful to have and thus the average and casual gamers (which, incidentially, includes me, even though I happened to make millions by being the first to start an honest running business in the game) should in no way feel bad that they don't have it.

I half-agree. On one hand, I believe the price should be lower. Because you HAVE proved yourself worthy of getting it if you can get to the Forgemaster. Doing so is not something just any little kid with the game can do. It requires patience and tactics (or a bum little invinci monk...I hate all of you. ) I don't say make it straight-up 15K + normal materials. Maybe ~ 25K per piece, along with maybe 3 ectos/shards per + the normal materials.

I think all of you are just extremists. COMPROMISE!

This way, it's at least decently hard. But not overly hard. Even for me, who's casual/hardcore, somewhere in the middle in fact. Because I have honestly earned ~ 80K. But the thought of even ATTEMPTING to get ~ 1 million just makes me sad. I understand it's a long-term goal, but long-term shouldn't be right after I die or the Inferno freezes over.

Now I'm going to go cash in my $300 paycheck for some Fissure armor.









Just kidding.

[QUOTE=
I'd appreciate a system where you could exchange some other things to make ecto (as this is the mainsource of problems). Like a collector wanting 150 glitterdust for one ecto.[/QUOTE]

then the price of glittering dust goes up, the price of ecto goes down, far far down. and then the glittering dust will be so expensive for the people that need it for armour

I find it amusing that players complain about the prices of FoW armor while shelling out hundreds or thousands of plats for some mediocre weapon.

It's time to stop asking for all the rewards without wanting to work for them.

You say you don't have 20K? Funny ... I make that sort of money just by raising an elder pet outsides Gates of Kryta ... just by running up and down Snake Dance with henchies ... just by helping groups with a mission, e.g. Thunderhead Keep, and it really doesn't matter if you win or loose. All of those only take a couple hours.

Once again, if you don't play the game, don't ask for all the benefits. On the other hand, if you are playing the game, you are either lying or not picking up the gold and items your enemies drop.