Game Economy Suggestion - Fissure Armor

To Fred Kiwi-nope, the price of glittering dust and ecto would equalize as long as there were drops/traders and a glittering dust thing, or at least it should, but people are dumb I guess.Why? Because the smart ones will add up how much they are spending on Glittering and figure out they are paying more than the actual Ecto or w/e is worth and go back to buying ectos until the price of glittering goes down, if it goes down.But as I said, people are dumb, and that messes up a player driven economy.

To Jessy- I see Loads of people not pick up all their drops and then complain they never make money! I made 3k in maybe a few hours just running around presearing, and thats not counting all my dye drops...money wasn't that hard to come by back in my pve days, now if I want to farm though I go do it in an mmo with better rewards for my time, pvp ftw....(and in case your thinking it, no I am not one of "those" pvp jackasses, you know the ones who use "n00bs" between everyother swearword they throw out in a childish attempt to make others mad, no all chat for viewing enjoyment :P )

to me a LONG TERM goal is in the neighborhood of playing or in this case farming (however you make your gold) for at least 1-2 hours per day for at least 6 months to a year for the best.

LETS SEE HOW IT FITS.

as per the given figures

3000k

1.5k per run per 5 minutes equals 18k per hour.

3000k divided by 18k gives 166 days at 1 hour per day.

166 days divided by 30 days equals...........well bless my heart ...5.5 months

2 hours/day is only 3 months

REASONABLE for the top item

The way I see it, there is already very little payoff for acquiring the FoW, aside from self-satisfaction.

Other people only see you in towns. Assuming you're adventuring most of the time, nobody but your party ever even sees it. I know I, personally, don't run around town looking at other's armor.

Keeping the stats the same is mandatory, but maybe it should have some kind of "glow" or something to stand out more.

I can understand the need for a gold sink, due to the lack of uber weapons, etc.

But I wonder what will happen when/if Anet allows different clothing to be worn in towns? Who will see your uber-expensive armor then? Devourers?

Will we have FoW evening gowns or tuxedos? Designer jeans?

bet on it as it is a MASSIVE gold sink waiting to happen

I understand everyon'es point about the money sink and what not...

But ANet is encouraging the very thing they're trying to discourage by accepting such high prices. There's no such thing as supply and demmand on a video game. If the gamedev wanted to make the price of Fissure Armor 1g, they could do it. If their prices encourage people to try and earn 1000k by making prices for something so high in demand, they're just encouraging people to farm and get gold off Ebay.

It's unrealistic of ANet to keep prices so unatainable.

It's like the policeman giving away free money on one side of the street, but telling you you can't cross the street. How does ANet expect us to reach this amazing goal if the only way we can reach it is by breaking thier laws.

Absolutely incorrect. Please read this article about the multi-billion-dollar industry surrounding virtual mmorpg property:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/09/17/pl...ney/index.html

...and this one about an online virtual-property "mugger" getting arrested in real life for his online actions:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/08/22/ma..._for_stealing/



Also incorrect... those wearing fissure armor are living proof that these items are attainable. Nope, they're not meant to be free -- they are cosmetic status symbols meant to illustrate how much time + effort you're willing to invest in GW. The three reasons why most players appreciate FoW armor are 1) rarity 2) expense 3) unique graphics. Taking any of these factors away to make the FoW "look" more attainable will simply destroy their mystique.

If you can invest the time and effort to get FoW armor, then more power to you in GW, but this also means less time available to invested in real-life. No matter how we spend our individual time available, we all have a finite amount. I prefer using my time to make REAL, tangible money... that's why I own some VERY expensive real-life toys. I also have some decent GW-items, but I also had to make some real-life sacrifices to attain them (like the chagrin of my better half)...

[QUOTE=Melkor of ZoSo]they're just encouraging people to farm and get gold off Ebay.

It's unrealistic of ANet to keep prices so unatainable.

QUOTE]

first Anet has stated many times that they are not against FARMING but they are against BOTTING.

so farming is ok. i farm a bit myself.

see my figures in the above post an being realistic.

3-6 months at only one or two hours per day gets you the top inem in the game for showing off.

1 year if you only farm a half hour per day and you might make more just playing the game than the farming.

if the most casual player can get the fissure armor what is the point of even bothering to get it?

it is a STATUS SYMBOL like a ROLLS ROYCE

can everybody afford one of those?

the fissure armor is the Rolls Royce of armor.

it shouts MONEY TO BURN and i have it.

All i have to say is, if fissure armor had better stats than drok armor, then u have the right to complain about it, since the majority of people cannot afford it and it would be unfair for the rich to have better stats on their armor.

BUT it doesnt, so boohoo the only reason ur complaining is u want the looks of the armor but cant afford it.

Done being an idiot? Okay, back to reality.

Not all of us are trader exploiting Ebay freaks. And the 55/105 isn't an
'exploit,' it's using a very specific skillset to farm. Clearly something you've
never used. The farming monks do have to WORK for the ecto that drops.
You can't just the ataxes nicely. Idiot.

And if Ebay and trader exploits are some magical time saver
that you make them out to be, perhaps you should give them a try,
instead of wasting everyone's time here and whining about
how expensive it is to get.

I keep reading the same responses - it's a money sink, it should be hard to get and need working for etc etc, but while these may be true, it's also true that the ecto and shards drop a lot more rarely now than they used to, so putting late comers at a disadvantage compared to early players. Having spoke to a few (one who has a stockpile he showed me of 500 ecto and 500 shards and 5 sets of fissure armour spread across 2 accounts), the phrase used was 'they used to drop like glittering dust does now' and 8 or 10 ecto in a decent UW ruin wasrn't unheard of. I've been playing 4 month';s and have no interest in farming, and in over 40 hours of the UW (probably more) I've had 5 ecto drops. I know fissure is only cosmetic - thats why i want it for my ranger, so i can have armour with druid stats without looking a tit, as druids ~(1.5k & 15k) looks daft.

My proposal is simple - want fissure armour to be hard to get and need to be worked for? easy, no ecto or shards as random droips, instead give 2 ecto in UW and 2 shards in Fissure as a quest reward to each party member when completing a quest - in one fell swoop, you have to work for fissure and actually play the game. It probably won't stop the farmers/ebayers from getting it, but they couldn't solo farm for shards/ecto anymore, but would at least give the latecomers a decent chance even if they would have to complete over 50 quests in each area (easily 100 hours worth of gameplay time). Also bare in mind, it's a lot harder for European players anyway, as we have favor a fraction of the time the US gets it (last stats I saw showed it split as 63% US/12% Europe/25% Korea), so that needs addressing too.

LOL

fissure armor does not make you more powerfull

The fixed quest drop doesn't sound too bad at all, though I wouldn't recommend making them quest-reward-only. This keeps it fair for both casual players and solo farmers alike.

Finaly, a good suggestion. But keep the random drops, perhaps reduced slightly, and make it only certain quests such as finishing all the eternal forgemaster's quests in FoW, and perhaps restoring all the monuments in UW.

Fissure armor is a status symbol. It stands for something. We all agree on this.

Now, look at what it stands for right now. It says you are filthy rich, or had an excellent gold item drop. What is should stand for is skill in the game. Farming takes skill? Ha. Ha ha.

I like the idea proposed because then someone like myself, who enjoys teaming up with his guild mates and doing a few quests would actualy stand a chance to get some of the cool-looking fissure armor. If you do not think it is cool, then great, you now have a way to earn some good gold for doing UW or FoW. People who farm could continue to farm, they could still buy shards and ectos either from the trader or from players who did not want them.

Not fair to all the players, mainly the ones who bought FoW armor before this change? I do not see how, the method they used to get FoW armor is no less viable, those saving for it would still be able to get it, and the cost of crafting it would stay steady. Only materials would change, but no one complains about the guy who buys all his ectos when they are 9k, when most have to pay 13k.

Perhaps you think these changes will just make FoW armor easier to get. Tell me, how many pick-up-groups have you been in who can, say, even make it to the crafter, much less do his quests? It takes a bit of skill to control the aggro properly, to handle unexpected situations and survive when surprised. Farming just takes time, nothing else. How many people do you see in ToA saying they will pay the group that gets them to the armor crafter? Do these people deserve to craft the armor that should represent a skilled long-time player?

Add this, with the changes I suggested, and it will not fix any of the current problems except one. The team players will stand a chance. The skilled players who hate farming will have a way.

Fissure armor seems harder to get for 2 reasons now.

One, all the experienced players have moved on to better grazing fields now... Sorrow's Furnace. It used to be easy to get to the Fissure crafter w/ any old pug in toa. It was by no means hard, and takes only about 90 to 120 minutes for all 3 quests. I used to see groups have more trouble getting to the wailing lord than getting to the crafter.

In any case, these days Toa is quite deserted and populated by newer players with very little to no UW/FOW experience. Toa used to be the only place that experienced players could hang out so you were almost guaranteed a group with a several knowledgeable and experienced players. Last few runs I went to in fow/uw the groups had no clue what they were doing.. i'd never seen so many ghost talking, aaxte aggroing and solo monking parties slaughtered so quickly. Or the chicken sht warriors in fow who pussyfoot around the mobs, and then run screaming back towards the casters w/ a train of beserkers on their tail.

What's all this talk about wimpy farming anyways? The place to farm now is Sorrow's Furnace.. even if the greens have dried up a bit w/ the latest patch. I've still seen several high end green items that run for 60-100K drop each time I play, although sadly not for me. I did get a willcrusher the other day though =). In addition to the regular drops, I've gotten a sup vigor and absorption before from the chests using keys that have dropped in battle. If there's any place for plats to be made, it's sorrows. In a decent group, the Final Assault farming run can be made in 30 min per.

The second reason seems to be the pathetic glob drops in UW. I agree with the proposal that globs should be included as rewards w/ some quests. Although I think they should only be for the truly difficult quests, the ones that most players chicken out on. It's virtually impossible to find decent groups that are up for a challenge in UW. If globs were offered as rewards for completing the Ice King and 4 Horseman quests, a lot more people would actually start using their heads to try to figure out how to complete these "omg that's impossible" quests.

The reward system in UW has always been severely screwed up. After completely clearing uw - finishing all uw quests, reaper subquests, and clearing all mobs (we even killed the spider pets lol) we got nothing. No magical doors opened, no Gwen Fairy appeared to congratulate us, no magic chest of 100 ectos appeared. It was a complete let down. At least rewarding parties w/ ecto for completing _select_ (i can just imagine the "lfg totured soul ecto run" calls in toa) subquests would be a path towards rectifying this situation. Players may actually make an effort at coming up w/ new solutions to the harder uw quests instead of doing the same tired "smite runs" over and over again.

in any case, fissure armor is just plain ugly for some classes except for the female monk - which i have, because i never sold a single ecto that dropped for me even before i knew what they were for, and i went on many 4 person smite runs.

FoW armor is a collectors type of armor, average player doesn't need it.

QUOTED FOR GREAT TRUTHFUL JUSTICE.<3

hehe thanks :P


Forgot to mention, if everyone was as easy as most of the quests and missions ... and this armor too... what would I be playing for? ;p

if it were for skill it would be a PVP reward item for the best of the best.

guess what.............it isnt.

this is the PVE reward for putting in the effore from farming to running that it takes to EARN the best offered.

GET OVER IT

most people will not get it because they are so impatient, so busy with real life (honest congrats to them) , or simply not willing to work 6 months to get something, or keep blowing their money on that perfect sword/shield/item/etc.

this is not politically correct economics where everybody gets the grand prize on proportional effort..........i tried for a whole 3 weeks so i should be able to afford it like everybody else

Banebow: Farming doesn't require skills, if you just follow up some other person's knowledge and have a good functioning team then you can farm as much as you want.

Not totally correct - your statement should read 'this is the PVE reward for putting in the effore from farming to running to buying the gold off ebay that it takes to EARN the best offered.'

to be honest i didnt even think of that as i was only considering in game effort .....my oopsie

So what this thread was created to do was:

Make everything cheap

Am I correct?

So much here I only read the first page and a few posts on the second...but here is my take. FoW Armor should be a long term goal...if you take the 1000 plat needed and divide it by 365 days in a year then all you have to do is make 2.739 plat per day. I have made 5 plat per day just helping Guildies get through areas or just plunking along capping elites. I see so many people leaving stuff on the ground that is reserved for them that if they would just pick everything up they would have a bit of gold. By the way on a weekend, if I can dodge my wife for a fair amount of time, then I have managed 10 plat in one day. And no I do not zone repeatedly. I will kill everything in an area. And I do not waste gold on the chest keys. (I did buy 3 keys once and was sorely disappointed in what dropped).

Errr, Augury Rock local-chat anyone?

Most bad monks I encountered were actually farming monks who gained their armour (or heavy gold sums) through hardcore farming. Nothing bad about that but stating that it would be a sign of experience or a mark of quality when bashing buttons via a cookie-cutter build is not very wise.

Regarding Fow-armour I do think that it should remain as something rare and quite special. You do not need it to become good or even better.

I really, really want a Fissure armor but don't have enought time to grind for gold. You can still make your player look cool by trying combinations of different kinds of armor of your profession.

check out my character:




i think it looks cool. the body armor is 15k gladiator's armor and the rest are 1.5k droknars platemail armor dyed all in silver.

I am not sure if it will work w/ other professions but works for a warrior.

save you money for weapons. 1.5k, 15k and fissure armor have all the same stats anyway, weapons does not.

Hilarious, people getting annoyd by a piece of armor they can't get. So the stat's are about the same as other armors in droknars, what's the point of getting it then? Print a screenshot of your character, make a paper doll and use a scissor to cut clothes for it and dress it up anyway you like.... LOL ...if it was easy to get and everybody already had it, anyone wouldn't even bother trying to get it anymore.. you get it? So no coolness left if it was so easy to get, but anyways. If people like to use their character as a barbie doll dressing it up to look pretty for the next prom it's up to them. It's a way for people to spend time, not a very creative way, but probably a way for Arena Net to keep people busy until a part 2 is available.

Notice my slight sarcasm there The point is not that farming takes so much skill I cannot do it, the point is it is about as boring as things can get, yet it is the sole way to earn this armor within even a halfway reasonable timeline.

And why should PvP get the only rewards for skill? Are glint quests a cakewalk, nevermind who is in your group? Are you perfectly happy when in a group with a l33t sp34k warrior who has no skill, but has farmed griffons for 400 hours and has the fissure armor? Does that warrior really have a claim to the armor, besides of course having an absurde amount of free time?

I believe that it even says on the box, or in the manual, that the game is about skill, not time spent playing. Well, here is the reward for time spent, were is the reward for skill? More experience points? Oh yay.

The rewards for skill exist ONLY in PvP. Plenty of people are happy with that. But guess what? They are PvP players. Some of use play both, and would dearly like to get something more than yet another useless skill point for all the hard work. Obsidian shards or ectoplasms as quest rewards would make my day. Heck, even a gold reward would make me happy, and I do not mean the pitiful 50 gold for some of the ascalon quests.

I agree with this point, but why are said special things reserved for only the ultra-rich farmers with loads of free time, and those who get lucky drops? Nevermind the fact that some people just buy the gold off ebay.

Dude I've been in lots of farming parties, if you can't farm it means you can't control your own skills!!!!

So learn how to use your available skills and how to perfectly adjust them to the situation to bring out it's full potentional.

I've been with lots of people, lots of idiots that couldn't control their skills or highly praised themselves and got themselves killed, I know that If i'm about to die ... the rest of the party dies or have died already, I'm usually the last one to die.

So if you learn how to use your skills and your weaknesses you know when to run or to heal and eventually resurrect others.

Ofcourse you'll need luck with running away, sometimes it fails thanks to spells that slow you down for example.

Knowing yourself CAN make you win, ofcourse you'll need partymembers that know that too, otherwise it'd be useless.

I think it's a shame most of you find my situation funny, and think that I don't want to work to get this armor. I garuntee you that MOST of the people with fissure armor are the ones who would get 10 drops a run back in the golden days. It is damn near impossible to get one ecto per run nowadays. I think every person who ventures into UW will get maybe 1 ecto per 2 runs. How are we suposed to store up enough Ectoplasm this way?

Or, how are we suposed to save enough gold to buy the Fissure Armor? The likelyhood of getting a Rare drop that sells for more than 10k is as likely as getting 2 ectos per UW run. What are we going to do, sell all of the crafting materials we salvage?

Or, find a guild who's made it to HoH and ask them to let us in? If someone were to pick this game up just last week, how will they EVER find a decent Guild that will let them in if thier Rank or Fame isn't high enough? So that rules out Sigil/HoH farming, which is where the big money is.

I dare any of you who are flaming me to come up with a strategy on how go get Fissure Armor. And while you're at it, why don't you share with us just how YOU got your Fissure Armor?

My point is:
Saving up Ectoplasm isn't effective.
Saving up Gold isn't effective.

So, for all of you wisemen out there, tell me how it's possible to get Fissure Armor, if I were to start a new account today.

and that is where everybody cannot agree.

what is a reasonable length of time.

as for a reasonable time for a top long term item i think 6-9 months at 1-2 hours a day is reasonable for the top item.

if you cant (or wont) do that then take the 15k armor and be happy with it

there are casual people complaining just as sincerely that the 1.5 DROK armor is out of reasonable reach. (i bought 3 sets just to compare how they looked)

more say the 15k armor is completely out of reach. (i dont see much improvement so i have DROK)


HERE TIS

some people will spend an insane time farming anyway and then look for something to spend it on.

thats it ....they will do it anyway....have something in their price range.

My POINT is ... this is a collectors TYPE OF ARMOR, which means YOU DON'T NEED IT BUT YOU CAN GET IT IF YOU LIKE IT.

Even if you complain, you think they'll change it?

That armor is the thing what keeps alot of players playing, everyone farming to be able to get that armor.

And another thing, I see people in Ventari's Sell every day buying things for 500k, 900k, 1200k.... I assure you, these people did not make thier fortune within the past month. If someone were to pick this game up today, they'd be at a MUCH greater disadvantage than those people who first picked this game up.

It is, frankly, unfair that all of these multi-millionaires of the game had the opurtunity to make great money, and new players don't.

Well, Mumoto, they SHOULD change it. People with Fissure Armor now spent far less time working for it than people who are working for it now would have to spend. The ectoplasm drop rate is disgusting in these days.

I know of someone with Fissure Armor on all 4 of thier characters, and 500k at least per player. Do you think they got that armor by spending time? No. That amount is not realisticaly attainable without using some exploit that's been patched/nerfed. Is that fair?

Blablabla ... drugs were legal before and now it's illegal, now I want it to be legal again because it's unfair because the others have been there from the 'start'.

You're just complaining because it's hard to get and takes lots of time, it's not impossible, it's just impossible with your kind of 'willpower'.

You know why FoW armor is super-cool? Because It's VERY EXPENSIVE, if it was like normal armor you wouldn't think it's special then.


Stop blattering around about 'make it cheaper', if you can't work for it then don't aim for it.


Let me tell you this ... average price of 1 green item is 10k
So if you farm and you sell 10 green items for 10k each you'd have 100k
10x100k=1000k

I got about 1-2 Green items per run, it's not impossible to get the items ... you're just lazy to do it.

Did I say I could not farm? I said I found farming uninteristing, that I enjoy doing missions and quests more. In close to 6 months of playing, I have never seen more than 45k in one place at one time. Yes, I spent some on 15k sets for my characters, and yes, I have bought some cheap weapons. But what has been the reward I get for completing the quests that actualy require a group were everyone knows there role, were everyone knew when to kite, when to run, when to heal, and when to res? More experience points.

There is a difference between doing repeated farming runs and playing the game. You do not have to farm to complete the game, in fact, you never have to farm. Unless of course you intend to get some of the more interisting items in the game. Gold crystaline swords? Farm or get lucky. A mursaat hammer with 13>50% or higher and some decent mods? Cheaper, but still pricey. FoW armor? You tell me.

Weapons would not change in price, and they are just as large a gold sink as FoW armor. Should shard/ecto rewards get added, FoW armor would still act as a money sink for those who wished to farm, but then players who did not want to farm have an alternative. Two 'runs' to the eternal forgemaster for 4 shards (assuming he gave them) takes at best 3 hours, at worst, 4-5 hours. Griffon farmers make 1.5k in 5-10 minutes, wich means about a shard every half-hour. Farming would still be a more effective way to earn gold, so the only effect this would have is, as I said, a way for non-farmers to earn items. Is that such a bad thing? Should farming be the only way to earn good gold? That is the gist of what I am seeing, that guild wars should be just like WoW and every other MMO, farm or don't get it. Yes, it is not needed. You do not need armor of any kind.

Here is what I have to say on this issue. I have made over 600k off of farming greens from SF with a full party. Prior to this, I was a very poor person who had to farm TGNW for a week just to get my 15k armor. You want money, you have to work for it, just like anywhere else. Find some other online game, and I can almost guarantee it would take longer to get the "most uber" armor and weapons on there than it would to get FoW armor.

FoW armor is not meant for your average player. If you are talking about something being balanced then FoW does the same thing as droknars 1.5k armor, the only thing is that it looks different.

Tell me, would you make, say, BMW's cost the same as any other car? No, because then an average person could go out and buy BMW's, devauluing the whole company. 200k is so easy to get, and no matter how you argue it, you really have no valid points.

Still you don't get it

COLLECTOR'S ARMOR!!!!!!!!

If you have that armor it doesn't mean you finished the game or without it you haven't.

So stfu and finish all quest and missions + bonus and stop complaining about useless crap like this.

What is your next 'Suggestion'; improve droprate... 10x more valuable item drops?

Game is about the Quests + Missions not about getting FoW armor <_<

I now have a strange urge to go out and pose my character, steal a picture of someone else's FoW armor, and then Photoshop it on. Then I can say I'm "leet" like the farmers.

Wow, I'm kinda angry today. I don't know why, either.

If I chop you (wearing Droknar's armour) with my 6-28, 15% > 50% sickle, do I get a bonus 500 damage done to you?
And if you chop my (non-existent) FoW armour with your 6-28, 15% > 50% spiked axe, do you perhaps do negative damage and heal me instead?

Answer those two questions, and you're good to go.