Why isn't IWAY nerfed yet?

Can anyone tell me why, despite many complains, the conditions of GvG and tombs, that IWAY hasn't been nerfed yet?

The biggest reason why no one plays tombs anymore (proof: one-on-one hills and burial mounds) is because of the lack of diversity in builds.

IWAY is something that should not exist. The skill's flaw point is that one of your allies had to die. A pet isn't an ally.

So now Anet has resulted in catering to stupid dumb newbs who have to copy-cat everyone else in order to achieve...

Don't expect people to be all that excited about the freaking 'tournament' if IWAY is up.

Thanks Gaile Grey and Anet for ignoring the fans once again.

Because all the warriors bitched about no one wanting them, so ANET made them good. Similar to when Rangers bitched about no one wanting them, then BLAM came in the era of natures renewal.

Just to clarify. A pet is an ally, however it is not a party member.

Heh... I don't mind coming up against IWAY. Our guild has a nice build that can crap on IWAY and other things that crop up in Tombs. You just gotta use your brain. Take a look at IWAY and see beyond the stupidity of the build and you will see all the holes in it. At first I was frustrated like yourself, but after our guild nutted out a build we went in and tested and then fined tuned it until yesterday we were 20 seconds or so off winning the HoH (ran out of energy to stop the "Claim Resource").

Guild Wars has too many skills to say one build is over powering. Only when a skill is bugged is when it broken and needs to be fixed.

Because Anet likes to laugh at America when we rarely have favor because Iway teams cant hold the hall...

I know it has flaws

But RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO...everyone and their mother is running IWAY. I made a drinking game last night and my six-pack of beer got off in less than an half an hour. I don't even tomb anymore because of this ONE reason.

Like I said, it's pretty obvious that Anet doesn't care about the quality of the game, balance, or the community. They just want money, thus they allow obvious flaws like IWAY pet builds to exist to cater to the lower dominator.

Because it's not overpowered?

And the reason Burial Mounds is 1v1 now has nothing to do with how many teams are playing and everything to do with the fact that almost everyone hated the retarded standoff RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO2 format it used to have.

Finally, complaining about it because "it makes things easy for newbies who just copy it" is pointless - history has proven that if it was taken away, they'd just find some other easy to use, effective build to copy.

Wrong. Gaile Grey even said herself that the reason why they reduced the number of teams is because games took longer to loadup due to NOT ENOUGH TEAMS.

Low teams = low players. They won't expand their PvP play modes (like 4on4 hall style) because they are afraid of seperating the community.

IWAY is overpowered, otherwise people wouldn't be using it so much.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good. IWAY is terrible but it's easy. There's no reason to do anything about it.

Really, it's like asking for Peace and Harmony to be nerfed just because all the idiots are using it even though they don't win.

EDIT: Overpowered in what sense? A lot of people run it because they think it's good. That is the extent of IWAY's "power".

Do you have any idea how many people think that ArenaNet nerfs skills as a response to mere whining (I'm one of the few that believes they really playtest these kinds of things before deciding what works best for the game)? You're essentially complaining that they're NOT reacting to whining. It must be the case that IWAY isn't imbalanced since it wasn't nerfed last update (they probably playtested it, laughed at its terrible weaknesses, and went along their usual business). Obviously, there are so many ways to kill IWAY, so it's not like it's unbeatable. If you're sick of tombs and the FOTM build(s), try ranked GvG.

Equally likely is the possibility that she just covered with that because they don't want to admit that the 2 v 2 v 2 was a terrible idea and not fun in every way. Those maps are what stopped me from playing tombs for a long time - I play PvP for a fair skill-based fight, not double teaming.

Nonsense. Until Nature's Renewal, people almost exclusively used air spike, which to this day has not been nerfed - other people just learned to defend against it. People using it doesn't mean it's overpowered, it means that it's easy to use. I've been in a dozen teams that easily and completely annihilated any and all IWAY teams. In fact, not too long ago my guild was running a build so effective against them we celebrated finding out our enemy was IWAY because it was a free pass to the next round. That's not overpowered.


EDIT: BTW, moderators, why on earth is "2 v 2 v 2" (without the spaces) censored? Is there some meaning there I'm missing?

And this is why not many people play GvG or any decent teams in tombs anymore.

Iway has not been nerfed, because it does nto need to be nerfed.

Most iway players are rather horrible, so they don't go anywhere with it.

The build has many flaw's in it, and if it has flaw's, why would you nerf it already?

On the same topic, why such a long/weird censor?

I think you need to expand on that statement a bit more.

Many major players either quit or major haitus now. GvG is bascailly only the top 20, with the rest of the ladder being either nobodies or build-stealers. Even so, the top 20 gvg isn't exactly competitive, since no one is around.

Even so, it bascailly means that GvG is void in any serious competition.

Tombs, well...if Warrior's Nation can win HOH with IWAY...nuff said.

The IWAY trend is about as limiting as the W/Mo trend was during the BWE's, which is to say, not very.

OK, 1) no top 20 guild has said anything like that. 2) What does that have to do with IWAY?

Because they're fun to kill :P .

I don't think that simply because alot of people use it, it should be 'nerfed'. Seeing as how you see it so often, try taking counters...

Because it can be beat. Any build which uses melee in near entirety can be beat. Icanseeicanseei'mgoingblind

IWAY is not overpowered and not in need of a nerf. Really good teams seem to have few problems with it. The reason why you see it so much is that it is easy to create and play an IWAY team, though some teams fail to be any good, even when playing IWAY (many IWAY teams in Europe do not even take the time to sort out spirits, for example). Still, these players do better in IWAY than they would do forming up as a completely random mix of warrion/monks, necro/rangers and what have you. For the inexperienced player, IWAY sort of functions as a leveler, allowing them wins in tombs as well.

Folks dislike IWAYso much because of 2 reasons: 1. They look down on the lack of creativity of IWAY-team players. 2. They play in teams that lose to IWAY all the time, yet choose not to go IWAY themselves or are not yet ready or do not know enough people to organize and think up (or even copy) non-IWAY team builds.

For this last group, IWAY presents something of a hurdle to getting anywhere in tombs. This group would have disliked air spiking as well, had that still been flavour of the month, I think Top teams just crack jokes about IWAY.

And I can say with some authority, not because I am, but because I am NOT a Top player and me and the guildies I play with in tombs get owned by IWAY 2 times out of 3. We have not overcome the IWAY hurdle yet. But if everyone was still spamming spirits or playing another FOTM build, we might have had the same problem.

Anyone still complaining about Anet not listening to players should take a look at the many changes in the updates over the last months and browse through the old items in forums such as these. They DO listen. But they do not always agree with everything a lot of people say, and that is a good thing. If there ever was a team of devs that did their best to stay in touch with players, the team of Anet must be it.

Btw, if anyone were to list some of their favorite counters to IWAY (even though that may be slightly off-topic), or post a good link about that subject here, non-top players like me might be very grateful.

the search function helps with finding counters for iway.

but just to list a few, with my fav at the top
Spiteful Spirit (with arcane echo and the anti iway team balling up)
Dusttrap
Chain Ageis, shield of defelection, Ineptitude, Blinding flash, FoC

If u ball up, and u cast spite, the warriors involved cannot attack. And the cd of the 2 spites are fast enuf for u to get it on 4 warriors. Most of the ppl running iway dun even recognize spite and its effects.

Iway doesn't need to be nerfed. Iway is like a pesticide. It removes those who are ignorant unprepared and plain unlucky. A group that really knows what its doing wouldnt have a problem with iway at all.

Remember the glaring weakness of the traditional and unmodified iway is it doesnt have anyform of hex and condition removal. The second one is that it relies on 2 casters - the tainted and the order. Shut them down and the iway loses part of their fuel. Shut the warriors down and the whole team becomes butter.

Spirit spammers had to be nerfed simply because the range of the spirit range was so big that it completely eliminated mesmer and the necro usefulness.

Of course, the an evil suggestion to nerf would be to set pets as non-allies and non-party members similar to how Orozar and killroy stooooooooooooonekin is. then, u'd see the iway groups packing suicidal necros

I wouldn't be so mad about IWAY if it took any skill to run, but you know, since it doesn't, I'm kinda pissed about it. More for the annoyance factor than it being good. If a lowsy warrior can fake a decent pet as an ally, why the hell don't a necromancer's minions count as allies? It's not fair that a ranger's servant hit-things creature is considered an ally, but a necromancer's isn't. So dumb. NONE of them should be considered allies, in my opinion. I think that the ranger who owns the pet should have a seperate "pet" window, where they can click and target their pet easily, and necromancers should have a "minion" window, for the same purpose. NONE of them though, should be considered "allies", though.

Thanks, 2 fingers (for some reason, the search function did not seem to work for me on this forum).

Want the want are you gusy talking about IWAY was decreased in power but it wasn't nerfed I agree.

For example Orders and other party effects only affect party members nearby before IWAY ordering nercos would go into no wheresvile and hide and use there orders to help their teammate. Now they can't do this and orders must be used nearby.

This build has been weakened and it NOW needs skill and it has earned a spot beside the honoured builds such as spiker, smite, etc

Now if you guys want IWAY to be nerfed I suggest you stop insulting them after all they do add new stuff to the game FOR FREE now stop being complainers go to HoH grab a counter for IWAY and stop conplaining. Remember IWAY is also the easiest build to counter

Now that I think of it, the one thing I really dislike about the number of IWAY teams in tombs is that it tends to force people to take counters. And as I like running melee characters, this makes me a lot less effective against many teams.

For example, a team that can chain Aegis, will probably do so, if they see that the other team has 1 or 2 melee characters. So my melee character will do a lot less then would have been the case without this counter. Of course, this means that the other teams prot. monk will have used skill slots and energy as well, but I might have done a lot more for my team as an offensive caster. Even worse with blind (if, say, a few in the other team have the means to blind me, I will be blinded all the time). This will not hinder my team, as they will be facing a team that is protecting against melee fighters and thus have less skills and spent less energy against other defences, but being blinded most of the game, always waiting for Martyr does make you feel somewhat useless.

I hate all this bullshizzle about IWAY,
why do people hate it? It's easy to counter with a Ranger Spike and Healing Ball.... It's just a build like all the others!
And all these builds keeps us thinking how to counter it..!

So just stop insulting IWAY, it's just childish

IWAY isn't nerfed because the only thing IWAY beats it invite all groups and other IWAY groups.

What is it going to do, nerf it from it's self?

IWAY doesn't counter anything. It is a faction farming build and nothing more. People using it in the tombs don't intend to win the hall of hereoes they hope to get a few fast wins and then go again. It had no chance vs any real PvP groups at all.

Because IWAY is the only reason to play a W/R.
Without IWAY, W/R have no use in pvp.
But it's a pity pets are usefull only when they are dead

1) if the pet is not an ally then it could not be healed by the teams monk

2) i agree with your minion window idea. currently minion-mancers are highly underpowererd because of their inability to sustain more than about 6 minions due to the fact that having any more means that they are outside of heal areas range. Having a window would allow you to select you minions and heal them more efficiently. It may also let you attatch mending to them (intresting idea i may have to try)

I switched my W/Mo to W/R for better running and went into Tombs to see the new Halloween effects.

As a W/Mo it took me forever to find a PUG. As a W/R I got 3 invintations within minutes . . .

they should delete warriors from the game

IWAY is not overpowered at all.

The reason it is used so much is because it is pretty much the only build that a PUG of less than r6 has any chance of having even a marginal degree of success with.

I agree coming up vs. so many IWAY teams is boring. However, it's a necessary evil.

You complain about dwindling PVP numbers now. Well guess what? Nerfing IWAY would just make the numbers drastically worse.

Why? Because then almost 100% of the casual players will quit PVP, since they'd have almost no chance whatsoever to be even marginally successful in Tombs.

In conclusion: nerfing IWAY even more would cause all remaining casual players to leave Guild Wars PVP. IWAY is their last bastion of hope for winning rounds once in a while. Let's not take their last bastion of hope from them, lest they all leave the game and then Guild Wars will have even less players.

You're one of the top guilds in GW, you decide to tomb and test out a new build you come up with.

Then you play IWAY, beat them, play it again next round, then again, and then you go to King of the Hill and lose to one by fluke.

IWAY requires no skill, yet I've seen some really good builds/guilds fall down to them due to the sheer luck of the build.

I thought GW was about diversity, creativity, and challenges, not 200 pets. No only that, but it does lag the game, kind of like spirits.

So again, can I ask why Anet hasn't made IWAY NOT work with pets yet? IWAY pet builds only cheapen the competitions in Tombs and GvG (I've seen it used, yes) and doesn't benefit the game at all.

Are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing reading what I'm saying?

Everyone and their god damn mother is using the build. IT IS KILLING ANY DECENT COMPETITION IN TOMBS.

When a pathetic guild like Warrior Nation using an IWAY build HOLDS HALLS, SOMETHING IS WRONG.

I said IWAY is easy to counter.. Not, IWAY counters builds

That's mostly Anet's and the communitys fault.

No tutorials, REALLY bad premades (1up interview..eww), and the ranking system.

Get rid of the ranking emote system, put in good premades (and a mini-movie describing the how and why), and a PvP tutorial.

Guaranatee you that casual players would stand a chance. But that would require effort from Anet and the community.

If something is wrong with that, it's not because of IWAY.

Once you get to winning/holding Halls a lot, you will come to realize that winning and holding halls has a very large degree of sheer dumb luck thrown into the equation. That is the nature of the beast with 3 different teams fighting each other at the same time.

Your beef about that should be about the luck-based nature of non-1vs1 team battles; not IWAY.

Because crappy teams win/hold HoH all the time due to the luck of how the battle played out, and their build is often not IWAY.

What I'm saying is: the IWAY build is irrelevant to the core issue of your beef with this point.

just yesterday, we came to the halls and there was an iway holding it.

we won with ease because the third team was rather... poor, and the iway had no chance in hell.

how did it get there....?

Gaile was in LA inter dis 1 last night and said "Pets are allies, aren't they?"
Sorry I've got no screens but I'm sure if you troll around for Gaile threads you'll find proof there. The question is whether it was tongue in cheek or an official position.