DEBATE: Solo-Farming

I am For Solo-Farming, even though i dont even have a monk primary in pve, i still could farm decently when i was bored on my w/mo. Farming is relaxing and entertaining. It should not be condemned for the reasons given that its too ez, or that it doesn't require skill... what a load of.. You know..

First off, ArenaNet started to be against farming in the respect of "nerfing" or as you should be saying, changed skills. These specific skills altered the way certain builds worked versus farming areas, more specifically the axe monsters in underworld isnt it? (I am ACTUALLY noob when it comes to underworld and FoW because i barely go there, and i have never farmed there successfully). I would have farmed UW/FoW eventually if i had farmed fast enough for gold for the superior runes to begin the investment of it. Not to mention the enjoyment. Grinding IS FUN for some people. Face it. ok thats down, besides skills, there was many gold sinks implented.

Gold sinks. Thats all good and fine, who cares its to be expected but then they go and Now hit the extreme button. Destroy the ability to farm like we used to with either AoE spells or even adjacent spells (AKA such as zealots fire).
What ArenaNet was... doing was, shooting a shotgun from a distance hitting a few parts of farming to try to slow it down, or lightly kill it. But they just slipped and shot their own feet off. This game (PVE side) is stopped dead right now, no one will see the fact that everyone is NOW imbalanced by the gold gain cut short, by these expensive armors which look alright in my opinion (i do not own or want any expensive armors for my characters - its a waste). Let me clearify, We have many gold sinks and all, we have the gold (for now), but once thats gone, we have an impossible market "again" - rune trader days...
I think ArenaNet needs to accept that PVE and PVP can never be connected in the way they wanted. You just can't. Its impossible. Theres no gold in the PVP aspect of things. Unlocking is so much easier in PVP now, and thats good, its finally "fixed". But now we got a problem with PVE its ONLY PvE. No one should be comparing PvE to PvP here.

Me, and like only people here are for farming, and not even because of OMGOMGGOM i need to have more gold than people, its about buying what we want when we want, and for the damn enjoyment of it all. I came from a game where the only way to GO UP the ladder of power is to grind for hours on end. I'm talking experience in the millions (100+million). And monsters give about 100-400 exp each, for a warrior, one at a time, you can picture that.. can't you?
For a mage in that game you could say it was good, but you know what, they were way imbalanced for that game too, they had it hard for the way they had to gather monsters, to even begin to start killing for the experience. Not to mention the potential of having items stolen while your far from your targets casting spells, to have those items drop.

Sigh.

Hm.. Farming.. it's tedious and boring in most cases.

UW solo farming, well, I haven't tried it.

Drops in general: We need better drops to fall while in a team with people, it would encourage teaming with others and going solo less often. Not sure if it can be changed though.

UW parties: Well, just spend some time down there yesterday (and got someone a spider) and.. between the two attempts at it, it only paid for going down once (as in, the person who paid managed to make 1p back over the two trips) No ecto, two chests with purples one with gold, no gold drops.

Now, with that being the picture, why would anyone want to go UW? Especially when you can do it alone and that way it'll actually pay for the trip and a bit more?

I understand it got completly nerved, but had hoped that it only got nerved for the solo farmers, not for the casual players wanting to have some fun.

The other thing which dissapointed me was on the first trip we had not 1 but 2 solo monks who sabotaged, one dying shortly after. Was after that that I came to the conclusion that as long as i have a say in the team, no Mo/W will join it if we're going UW and most definatly no blind inviting Mo/W!

So yeah, while I prefer playing the game rather than farm, farming I can do if I have about 5-10 mins spare, or if no-one is online to group up with.

Neutral. I don't like solo-farming much, but if people want to do it, I am fine with it. It should not be the focus of gameplay for the devs, but if people have finished the pve game and have little to aim for asside from getting more items and gold, it is only natural that they will farm. And farming solo is simply more profitable. If there was a better way to get gold, people would do that.

Pitty it is hard to get the 60K armours without solo farming. Gold sink = grind, here, in my opinion.

Neutral too. I have nothing against people who solo farm, its their decision. I don't see why people complain about solo farmers. In truth, solo farming in UW for example requires a lot of skill and timing, especially with all the nerfing the Anet has been doing, so i think they deserve their drops. As for me, i would rather pvp/gvg or do some random quest than farm. Money isnt that big a deal for me, and solo farming tends to get a little tedious.

Just my 2 cents ^^

I used to be against solo farming mainly because it was the reason Anet nerfed the drops to their current pitiful state which affects everyone, but I do now think that solo farming should be allowed, if only because some people enjoy the challange and prefer questing alone.

What I would like to see though is drops targeted at the number in the group. Take the UW as an example, Ecto drops are now pitiful and if one does drop you only have a 1 in 8 chance of being allocatted it if in a group, and quite frequently the same 1 or 2 people will get allocatted 2 oir 3 each and the rest none - I would like it changed so that if an ecto is dropped, then everyone in the group gets one - so a solo farmer gets 1, 5 man trappers get 5 for 1` each, and 8 man team gets 8 - this piuts no-one at a disadvantage in how they like to play to game, it shouldn't even be that hard to implement as quest items are already allocatted this way, with enough being droipped for each party member.

Neutral also!

Im just happy playing the game how i like to play it "For Fun"

I farm alot with all my characters in various places "in some form or other"
but reading this thread a large percentage are all for farming because like
myself we have complated the game and all quests, skills, rewards etc.

And it really does get a little "annoying?" forgive my wording it's 4am here,
playing all those quests and missions over and over again, ...


"EDIT"
There was alot more here "honest" but i didnt want to rant, ...

"EDIT 2"
Typing errors.

This is an interesting point and I do hope someone form Anet will read this thread (assuming they have not heard or thought of this before). This would make farming/playing with a group (as Anet intended it) or even farming with henchmen more profitable. I am not sure that drops should be 8 times that of a solo-farmer for a group of 8, but right now drops for a solo farmer are 8 times that of a group of 8, as they have to devide the loot, though soloing is of course a lot slower. Maybe Anet should make this 1/4, so that a solo monk will get less drops per kill (but still sufficient to make it an interesting option). Anet can increase the rate of gold and item drops in general then.

But maybe I am wrong and this is a terrible idea.

Wow. Lots of folks for or neutral, looks like it is time to be part of the small crowd again.

I am against solo farming.

Yes, I have solo-farmed griffons with a W/Mo build I took of this forum. It took me about a day to become skilled enough with it to farm safely, without risking death. I could make enough gold in an hour and a half to purchase an ectoplasm. It sometimes would take me a week to make the same amount of gold before I started farming. Sometimes much longer.

So why am I against it? Because, in my mind, this is a skill-oriented game. Farming is based much more on time spent than skill. The people who first used solo monks needed skill to come up with the build, and I am not saying that farming takes no skill, but once the build is out, it is all based on how much free time you have (witness my W/Mo farming "skill" )

But the problem lies not in the solo farmers. The problem lies in the need to farm. It was a mistake to place items in this game the demand farming. Yes, these items are all armor, and no, you do not need them. That is not the point. People will always be driven to attain the highest level of gear possible. By not placing a reasonable cap on trader prices, the solo farmers become the controllers of the economy. They could, if they wished, dictate the price of any item in the game. They do on some items (think: ectoplasms) This forces new players to farm, so that they can purchase items.

Numerous "fixes" spring to mind. One would be gold rewards for quests. ANet already did this for low-level quests, yet they did not bring this to the quests were you have to work at it. The problem with this idea is it harms people who have already done the quests, unless the quests are reset, or you can pick up the gold now, even though you did the quest 3 months ago. If you think this will destroy the economy, I say it can't get much worse for someone who does not farm, since the farmers currently have control of market prices.

An earlier suggestion:
The only problem I see with this idea is that, if a guild group of 8 people went down to UW and they all got two ectoplasm drops, you could pool them and pick up a piece of fissure armor (minus shards). In one run. I am all for more drops, but not drops that happen so often the item becomes worthless.

Now, I don't want to come across as saying "remove all solo farmers, make it so you can't solo areas". I sometimes feel like heading out on my mesmer and killing a few things, making a (very small) bit of cash. Sometimes I just want to do a quest by myself, to see if I actually can. But the return for "going it alone" should not be 8 times better than if you were in a group. You will notice that most people only bother with groups now to get from one area to another, or to finish a quest they could not solo. But they only do those quests because they need something it gives or unlocks (everyone knows you only get a group for Orozar because you need to finish him for FA) I would be very much a happy man if SF quests gave, say, gold rewards (in addition to the experience rewards) because I would then not only have a reason to do these quests again, but the desire to do them again as well.

You've made some good points but I will have to counter your arguements.

Don't forget that solo-farming starts in the desert but later some guys think "hmm lets take this to the next level" and challeged areas with smarter of ememies. Some after try to take on drakes or hydras which are more challeging to work this because they have greater spells. I myself tried to harvest the gwawl outside of portsledge it almost worked too.

Also solo-farming DECREASES the amount of time that you need to take in order to get certain items. This could be agrued that it increases prices however farming also increases supply.

Farmer 1 wants a 10/10 suldering sword with a +30 health mod
Farmer 2 has a 10/10 Suldering Sword but with no Health mod
Farmer 3 has a +30 Health mod for a sword
Farmer 1 buys the stuff from farmer 2 and 3.

Farmers 2 and 3 buy other stuff from other people

This creates a situation in which players get what they want sooner and creates a healthy economy. But looks what happens when farming is destoyed.

Farmer 1 doesn't have the money for a 10/10 suldering sword with a +30 Health Mod.
Farmer 2 and 3 don't get the extra money from selling they're mods
Farmer 1, 2 and 3 get sad that they don't have the stuff they want
Farmers 1, 2 and 3 Quit playing Guild Wars

The problem with this example is that they are all farmers. Quester 4 can't buy the +30 health mod because farmer 1 easily out-bids him. Quester 4 then becomes farmer 4, and the game loses another player interisted in quests.

Except, of course, for those who don't farm

As I said, I have nothing against players who want to try and solo high level areas, or, if not high level, difficult with their class. I have something against it being the way to earn money.

I am for solo farming, this is the utmost skill to be able to go in a hard area (like SF-fa or UW) and farm it by yourself. Someone must be able to make their character the very best it possibly can, and not always just a load of damage at one time, but being able to stay alive that whole time and successfully farm that location, thats skill. I agree with guardian of the light with the whole supply & demand for items and also bringing higher quality items to the economy, along with keeping a balanced trade system. But going against what you said, I am all for invisimonk, i personally use mine all the time, i see nothing wrong with it, its easy...but not that easy with the recent aoe updates. That in a sense nerfed a good chunk of the "newer" players from trying the build or successfully using the build. Takes patience and skill along with timing and energy management (heavily).

Anyhow, to sum it up, i am for solo farming, its good in all of the above stated ways (imo).

I'm for it, so long as it's not in a spot that guarantees you'll be one of the richest peoples in GW (like UW farming used to be, and still is in a sense.)

If it's honest farming tengu, ettins, ring of fire, trolls, whatever, I'm all for it. However you can make a good buck. It's the only way I can buy a black dye every now and then.

Well I would agreed then that Questing should have some gold in certain quests like glint should say "You have successlly defended drokar's forge heres 10k". Don't forget that solo-farming isn't the only method of getting money another one is Running and Running is an unbeatable oppenent. As long as someone eventually gets money to spend runners will have use in some low level places.

If they were some quests that gave you 10k or something then a balance would be acieved and Runners, Farmers, and Questers would all have want they wanted.

I'd suggest this is Staduim but its already suggested I think.

I don't mind farming, except if...

the solo-strategy is like what I, three more guildies and two more people got involved in today.
We were forming a group for a quest in TOA, announcing that we were going to do this quest, and that we needed two monks for it.
After a while two monks joined (both Mo/W20), first one, then after a little while the other.
Both had rather...umm...strange names, and one of them kept spamming the teamchat with "100% love you" for no reason.

The team was full, so we headed out. That was when the teamchat-spamming monk typed "?????" and went back into TOA. There he kept typing "wait" a few times, and suddenly we were all loading into UW.

We all pretty much died in less than a minute (since none of us was prepared for UW), except of the second monk that had joined our team - he started farming. And of course he didn't have a res - pretty useful if you need an excuse for why you're waiting for the drops to become public. Anyway, he just continued his farming and we all mapped out.

This was the second time our team got hijacked into UW within 15 minutes. The first time it had been a Warrior who obviously wasn't as skilled, since he died in less than a minute too. Nevertheless he was persistent - once we had loaded back into TOA we were already loading back into UW. So we mapped out to a different district of TOA, formed a new team, and that's where the Farm-monk(s) joined us.

So yes, generally I don't mind farming, but team-hijack-farming (for more or better drops) like this is something I can't tolerate at all.

I pretty much agree with everything Banebow said, though I said I was neutral when it comes to solo farming. I don't mind some people doing it, but it is a pitty that this is by far the most profitable activity. Some activity will always be the most profitable, but the difference should not be so significant, I think. Pompeyfan's suggestion (in a less radical form) may present a simple way to balance this a little. Gold rewards would be as well (I had no idea that you get gold for pve missions at the start now. That is good).

I have made this point before: less farming means both fewer items and less gold. Farmers are the greatest source of items and gold flowing into the GW economy. Fewer items means higher prices for items, all else being equal. Less gold means fewer people around able to buy items at that high price. Less demand at a high price means prices will drop. Lower prices means being able to buy more for an x amount of gold. So, this really balances out, meaning that people can still trade and get the items they want. People will just have less gold in their pockets and there will be fewer perfect items in storage for most players, which will not make a big difference really.

The only problem with that is that 60K (and of course fissure) armour will be harder to obtain. If they halved the prices for that, I would certainly be happy.

I'm against solo farming being easily more efficient than team farming, because the detrimental effects of penalizing teamplay to such a large degree greatly outweighs the benefits to solo play.

Who the hell needs a 10/10 sundering +30 weapon? It has no advantage over a weapon costing <1/10th as much other than bragging rights.
And people can't even see the difference, you have to really start bragging about it to get any value for your money.
Anyone actually upset over not being able to afford such a weapon *and* not settling for a green, is just being silly.
IF you can afford it and want one, then buy it, but people complaining about not being able to just annoy me.

One could even argue that even these weapons wouldn't cost much if it wasn't for farming. There'd be fewer around, yes, but there wouldn't be bored farmers with millions in gold and nothing to spend it on either.

For with a caveat. I agree with solo farming but not for the top level areas like UW or FoW.

My solution for those areas would be to have phantom (simulated) henchies, i.e. hidden henchies that you can't see, that do nothing and really only exist in the mind of the server. That way, if you enter alone, the server still thinks you have a group of eight, if there are only 5 of you, the server thinks you have a group of eight. This means equal drops for all parties entering these areas and if drop rate is an issue then they can raise it without fear of anyone exploiting it.

I agree with solo-farming but not in UW and FoW. They shouldnt change what was already in the game from the beginning. I mean people that have stuck through it from the beginning are the ones being hurt not the new people joining on. I think those are the people that hate solo-farming simply for the fact that they cant. Yes, this is a game where you fight with a team. People see soloing places a greedy way of getting godly items. Then they complain about how much the items cost. Well I cant afford all godly items(most as a matter of fact) but I still think it is good for those people who get the drops.

As for the UW and FoW I think these places shouldn't be able to solo. Anet has done a pretty good job so far on working on that by making much harder. They have also added a nice touch by increasing rare drops in missions which increases people helping out the newer players that need it. Granted people can just farm missions but I find it more fun to help people out on my quest for items.
My pholosophy is "Give a little, get a little." And isnt karma something? lol well those are my two cents.... ready.... set...... flame!! lol

Even if I get bored of farming very quickly, I can understand that other players may appreciate this mind-numbing gambling process (do X then Y, get loot hoping to get super ubber item Z, rinse and repeat until exhaustion). It's just a basic slot machine addiction.

The crappy loot in many places initially comes from solo farming (and especially in the UW which used to be generous). Every drop in this game is balanced for a full team. Solo farmers screw up this balance because they receive 8 times more loot than standard players. As a result inflation kicks in and it hits everybody (and especially non-farmers). As a result, drop rates are reduced everywhere, which hits all players and especially casual players who can't keep up with the insane prices.

Farming should remain profitable but not disgustingly profitable. Solo-farming with 8x standard loot is simply not acceptable in the long run. Screwing up the whole 'economy' (and especially for the average player who can't compete with solo farmers) is assuredly not the best way to reward a farmer for using a stupid copy/pasted build and for killing 2345 zillion times the same monster.

A good solution would be an auto-balance of the drop rate / party size ratio, but for some reason it won't be implemented by ANet.

Quester 4 can buy a +29 upgrades for 5k and everyone is happy.
Hardcore farmers have their perfect items, wich are their only objective.
Casual players can buy almost-perfect upgrades cheap, because there is always a constant huge flow of non perfect but nice weapons granted by farmers, wich usually sell them (or perfect with high req or ugly skins) really cheep to clear their storage.

It can't be stopped. Every rpg has tried. Every rpg has failed. So the best thing to do is make it so farmers don't get a significant gameplay advantage. Anet has done this by making vanity items.

Like the Guiness guys say...Brilliant!

I'm neutral on solo farming.

But I disagree with this post that you can't accumulate wealth unless you solo farm. I have never solo farmed - I farm with a full team of henchies, or a full team of players, and accumulated enough gold to buy two full sets of 15K armor (~70K each including materials), two 1.5K sets (~8K each), green Morgriff Sceptor and Shadestone weapons (12K), a bunch of other crap, and still have well over 50K in storage.

I'm just a casual gamer, and probably have no more than 20 or 30 hours invested in farming... I do admit that a lot of my wealth came from one lucky drop, when Drago's Flat Bow dropped for me when I was with a team of henchies - that alone was worth 75K.

But I'm neutral on soloing because I think that it defeats the team aspect of the game, but at the same time, if a player is inventive enough to come up with a build and strategy that allows him/her to solo farm, then why not do it?

If A-Net was really against solo farming, they could fix that real quick by just not allowing single-person groups in certain farming areas.

i am for solo farming.

i solo w/ my w/mo but not w/ my mo/w i think being able to solo the UW is a cheap and quick way to make money but it isnt sumthin any noob can do. most people that can solo the UW have taken time to learn how to do it the best. while i do think u shouldnt be able to solo it i dont think it would be fair to take it away from the people who have worked hard to solo it. ANet has already added nightmares to disenchant and now enemies run away from baths aura. really theres not much else u can do other then not only one person to enter the UW. make it a limit of 3 or sumthin like taht. but that proly wouldnt work either since they would just have to bring friends or guild mates w/ them. also any time u have enemies someone will find a way to solo them.

FOR IT!!!

Its fun and rewarding....unlike quests that can be frustrating and unrewarding.
I have spent a ton of time trying to find a group, then when you find one; sombody drops!! You then have to go back to town and spend another hour trying to find a group....when you could be FARMING
I've always been kinda a loner, so farming is perfect for me. I can be by myself and grow my fortune. On top of that I am a top buyer at rpgtraders.net, so I MUST farm to cover all the bids I make. LOL
Thats just what I do, i beat the game now I'm trying to keep myself busy by getting lucky with some UBER drops, and recirculating the money back into the economy. I have made millions in this game, but its kinda wierd that I never have over 250K in my bank.....i spend it as fast as I can get it; its my poison.

i love solo farming uw. Still do it and will always do it until its not possible! I have played the game to much, done all quests, and everything else that is possible. Im just in it for the money as evertyhing else in the game is boring now (to me). I dont like people who say farming should be stoped completly. Its part of the game now and hopefully always will be.

I dont see the point going round doing everything honestly as that takes to much time and effort. I wanted fow armor and i wasnt going to wait 10,000 hours to collect all the shards and ecto as that, tbh is a waste of your life. I could understand if every1 in gw farmed the uw, but in comparison to the total number of people playing, hardly any1 solos uw. Maybe the economy is a bit messed up because of farming but there are plently of easier ways to solve that.

At the end of the day no where in gw or the manual does it say its ONLY a team player game, as it is not. Its a free game (not refering to £) where you can do prety much what you want, how you want and that is what makes gw good. So dont take away our ability to do what we want by ourselves.

I am for solo farming

I always have solo farmed, I always WILL solo farm, it's not always uw but that should be MY option if I choose, not "little Johnny the puritan player" imposing their playing style on me.

*****
Here's something you should get used to seeing:

Little Johnny: why is every mod I want so expensive now?

Former solo farmer: oh dude they nerfed farmers, now those mods have become so rare hardly anyone finds them anymore, price went WAY up!

Little Johhny: DOH! perhaps I should have thought about that idea differently huh?

Former solo farmer: ignorance =FTW

*******
I don't want to get in a pug that is going to waste my time, ruin my gameplay experience and make it miserable for the whole team.

If you don't want people to solo the UW then give me henches and there won't be a problem, at least they understand how to follow calls.

I can't possibly see how it would be that hard to let you take henchies to the UW with you, upon entering the henchies would go from their lower levels to 20 and have the exact same skill set they use in the higher level areas.

I'm all for solo farming. Weirdly it's not all about gold for me. Instead, once you have the right build, it's an almost mindless way to relax while sitting at the computer. It's boring in a pleasant sort of a way.

There are times - especially if it's been a long day at work - when I am not at all eager to chat with people, or worry about whether a team gets along.

So, I can fire up the game and farm. And, even though it really isn't about the gold, the items and the gold are nice. So solo farming is the most fun when I need the money. I swear that there are times that I overspend just to get broke enough to make farming more fun.

Also there's the nice element of surprise - sort of like opening a gift-wrapped package - to see what drops during a run.

Yep. I used to solo farm prior to the protective bond nerf. Then I switched up to soloing with protective spirit. Then the AoE nerf.

I think Anet is doing more to create imbalance with their attempts to control solo farming. They haven't figured it out yet though. Everytime they nerf something, the really bright, intelligent people that want to farm will figure out a way.

Dread

Why is it NOT OK to solo UW or FoW but OK everywhere else? Why is it OK if someone can run a naked character alone all over Perdition Rock, but not in the UW?

If globs of ectoplasm dropped as rare drops like monstrous bits all over the surface world, would there still be objections to people running the UW solo?

Gee, what a surprise that 99% are for it, I wonder why?

I am against it.

Why? Because I want game to be challenging. What do I mean by challenging? That level 20 monster is like equal opponent, he should be able to provide some challenge, you should not slaughter hordes of them in few seconds. This is flaw in game difficulty in AI that it cannot deal with such things, it makes entire PvE boring, since it's so easy.
Secondly, visit SF. Look at parties. What's this? Quests? Haha, what are you doing here, everyone is here for green weapons. People don't play game anymore, they act like robots, continously visiting same area over and over in hopes of good drops. This is not what I consider playing. Henchmen you say? Yeah, FA with henchies, sure it works.
And soloing supposedly hardest areas in game is just insane. That should *never* happen. I don't care if you can't afford your FoW armor without it, anything that has 20+ opponents shouldn't be soloable.

Edit: And to say that farmers reduce prices... No, not really. Sure there are more items in market, but also more money, meaning they want *more* for those items. Another farmer can easily afford them, but someone who prefers quest - no.
That, and what's so special about those super-weapons anyway? Collector items are just as good, yet people "need" to farm to afford ridicously overpriced items.

accually it can be stopped very easily. create minimum party sizes for mission and leaving town. no more soloing.

i still support the idea of adjusting drop rates based on teams size. more party members more drops. less member less drops. this would even out the drop rate of soloing compared to a normal full party.

making the arguement that people will quit if they can't solo is not viable. soloing was never suppose to be in the game anyways. if you quit b/c you can't solo you bought the wrong game in the first place. the prices would remain high for a while until people start running out of gold. then the prices will go into a nose dive and lvl off. w/o soloing the econemy would be much better. the econemy isn't supported by soloing. we had an econemy that was just fine before the soloing.

I seriously doubt this, half my gear are collector items, I don't do it because i want to be partied with a group and have to ctrl-click my weapon just to show the party that I have a green item that i paid a left nut for just to have bragging rights.

I give away a lot of items to guildies and friends, i don't have a large fortune, I don't need it, I just like to play this game the way that I like to.

You will never stop people from attempting to solo farm - no matter how tough you make it (Unless you have to be in a group before you can leave town ...). It's like the "war on drugs" - do you think they'll ever get rid of all the weed in the US? Not gonna happen.

And there is no reason to. There is, however, a reason to stop giving them massive amounts of gold and rare items for doing it.

You just stated the exact problem. Farming rewards players. Quests do not, in any way that really matters after you are level 20. Why on earth would you bother with quests then, besides the fact that some people like them?

Viola, problem solved. Solo farmers can still have their fun, and people who prefer human contact will actualy stand a chance in the economy.

Penalizing a player by keeping him or her away from the max gear, just because you like to farm, is foolish. Of course a +29 health mod works just as well as the +30. Droknar's armor works just as well as obsidian armor to. The first, a player going through the game can get once they reach droknar's forge. The latter, a player doing quests. . .
So, is the problem that the player decides not to farm, or is the problem that the game provides no means besides farming to get the item?

You will notice that most of the people against solo farming tend not to be against the fact that players enjoy it. They are against the fact that it is hugly more effective at earning gold than any other method a player may choose. Like I care if you want to spend 3 hours a day killing (insert monster name here) If you enjoy it, fine. But stop making it be the one and only way to attain things like obsidian armor.

i like most of your points except this one. there are much better methods of getting gold than farming. my problem with farming is the inflation that it causes. w/o that inflation it would be very easy to afford anything on this game.

Let me get this right, you want it to be okay (and reward) team farming by increasing the rate and therefore encouraging people to team farm to get better drops? How is this any different than the people that are solo farming so they improve their rate of getting better drops? At least with the existing system, everything is fair. 8 drops divided by 8 in the party and everyone get 1 drop. Has it occured to you that is a constant and changing it to anything else would only make it unfair? By varying the rate you are acutally making it unfair for solo and/or small team farmers who have to do more work than a team and get less? Last I checked, monsters are harder to kill with less people hence takes longer. How is your proposition any more fair? It merely shows your bias towards solo farming.

I can do the SF FA run with 2, 4, 5, 6 or, really, any combination of number of people and henchies, why do I prefer 5? Because it is the efficiency. The drop rate decrease is less signficant than compared to 4 but the time it takes to do it is a lot quicker... It's that simple. It's purely mathematics, probability and statistics. Complaints about solo farming is merely demonstration of envy especially when you say you don't care about those things. If not, why complain about the action of other people? I like my unique items because Ive worked hard to either farm them outright, or farmed enough gold to be able to purchase them. While it is no guarantee that it makes me a good player, the right equipment with the right role you are playing is certainly a good start (and yes, I'm well on my way to have every unique item for my characters). I'm equaly happy with a collector flame artifact as I am with The Kindlerock, it just depends on what I am playing at the moment (yes, I do also go out of my way to make sure I have all of the collector items as well, being that they are perfect, also). Being able to use either effectively is what my aim is and hopefully it makes be a better player to party up with. To think all solo farmers are anti-social is painting with a broad brush just as it is to think all people are good to team with. I can, just as I know you or anyone cal tell many horror stories there, and not over the months that I've been playing, in just this past weekend there's been so many bad examples of what not to do in a PUG.

The economy is the economy. It fluctuates based on you, I, solo farmers, PvE questers, runners, power levelers, "solo" players with henchies, scammers, dye traders, and the rest of us that don't fall into any specific pigeon hole, the entire GW community and our actions. It's vanity to think anyone one of us (or even a small subgroup) have much influence over it. The haves will always have because they go out and do something about it, the have nots, either by choice or just sitting and complaining, will not have anything because they refuse to participate (sounds like real life? perhaps it's time for some introflection). If you want something and cant afford it, that is only because you haven't done what it takes to get it. GW is most fair by enabling most any body to compete with collector items, items that cost you no gold and if you were smart about what to keep in doing which mission, you will get automatically. How much more fair can it be than it already is? Improve the drop rate for your style of play just because you prefer it that way to increase your opportunity boils down to only a hand-out, and THAT is not fair!

Wishful thinking. Supply and demand determines what an item cost. Inflation is merely a value of your money. While your gold *could* be worth more, if the demand of an item is high, you will still not be able to afford it because you are still competing with other buyers to obtain the same item that is in high demand.

Inflation in most MMORPGs are caused more by the arbitrary creation of gold per account than anything globally than what a single player can do to influence it locally.

that is true but i wouldn't be competeing with thousands of others will millions of gold.

take this for example if your supply and demand is the sole cause of items prices.

imagine the government gave every one $100 everyday. what would happen to the price of food, electricity, water, ect....?

the price would go through the roof b/c every one would be competeing for those basic nessecities. since everyone could afford them easily the price would get out of the range of the ones that could not. inflation determines cost more than supply and demand. i have an item highly in demand. i want to sell it. now take the hundreds of bids on the items that pushed the price out of reach of a casual or new player. the bids could have been at a small amount if everyone had less gold. with people having millions of gold that pushed the price way out of reach for any casual or new player to get. even though the item is in demand the inflation determined the price.

i'm not bais against farming. you might want to go back and read my post on the first page. i used to be one of the biggest farmers on the game until i saw what it did to the econemy. i am a farmer and i am supporting the drop variations. right now the drops have been reduced to such a rate that it = 1 man getting the drops of an 8 man party. now take an 8 man party in the current drop system they are getting drops = a 16 man party. where do you see that is fair?

You make the usual mistake of economic students of considering only one side of the supply and demand theory in your example (and most common misconception about farmer's lack of influence on the GW economy)...

Demand is only one side of the S&D. If you have an abudant supply, it will simply match an increased demand. Only when demand outstrip supply will the price go up. Farmers are not affecting the economy becuase they infuse both goods and gold in GW. You should thank your farmers. Any single Anet move, like the ecto, dye, and rune price reset has wy more influence over the economy than what we as players can do collectively and is more distablizing, much like government meddling in our real economy. Farming is INSIGNIFICANT. Complainers (not you) are the only people that don't see it that way out of their lack of understand of economics.

I make the same comparison that since most newbie players see warriors out in the front line holding off the mobs that they are the most damage dealing class. Anyone that's played GW long enough knows warrior really is useful for one purpose, damage absorption... Yet most warriors strut around thinking they are the biggest and baddest you-know-whats. Just because farmers strut around with nice goodies it makes them more visible (and creates envy from the have nots). For kicks, a friend and I both played monks to bring a random ragtag pug group past the Thunderkeep mission. We had 1 warrior. Just about every one asked, suggested, cajoled, begged, pleaded, and even left the group asking more tanks. My monk friend and I just laughed. We eventually assembled a group of 1 ranger, 2 necros, 3 monks and with a single tank, completed the mission in less than an hour and it was a piece of cake half way through the last part, I even walked around lighting the beacons but it was too late for the bonus. I think there were players in that PUG still in shock and state of disbelief that we even made it.

The moral of the story? Just because someone is most visible does not automatically mean they exert the most influence over anything.