Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh
ill just say
"including the devs" and leave it at that. |
DEBATE: Solo-Farming
Fantus
Quote:
Roza
Argentinus said:
I see your point. I have explored parts of Tyria by myself and quite enjoyed that, maybe more than the times I was rushing through missions with people I had never met before (though this was fun often enough, depending on the party). After not having played pve for a while (more a pvp players, me), I did Galen's quest by myself with henchies one night (as it is almost impossible to find people for anything but farming greens with standard farm groups in SF). And I really enjoyed that, bringing back memories to the times I was by myself (maybe with henchies) in post-searing Ascalon and exploring Tyria, the dessert, etc. I even had the time to listen to a conversation between dwarfs worrying about their jobs being taking over by machines. I love being able to really take in the landscapes and not needing to rush after someone.
What does this have to do with solo farming? Nothing at all. This has to do with soloing and soloing with henchies. I am all for that and I hope this will be possible to do in most area's in the next chapter.
Solofarming is not exploring, it is going to a place you already know, and repeating the same path over and over again, doing the same thing. Or it is to most people, as this is how you get most gold and items in the shortest amount of time. Which is kind of boring for me. But if you want gold, this is the best way to go. I would rather explore and do missions/quests though.
The sollution has been suggested before: make drops per enemy killed less frequent for parties, depending on party size. Soloing would still be rewarding in terms of gold and items gained compared to doing qiests, missions, etc., but less so.
Quote:
5) I like to explore Tyria. I make it my personal objective to uncloud every nook and cranny of the map that I can. It's amazing what you can find out there if you look hard enough. I find that most other players aren't interested in exploring. They want to get from point A to point B, complete their quests/missions/bonuses, capture their skills, and that's it. I don't have to deal with the impatience of others when I'm all by myself. |
What does this have to do with solo farming? Nothing at all. This has to do with soloing and soloing with henchies. I am all for that and I hope this will be possible to do in most area's in the next chapter.
Solofarming is not exploring, it is going to a place you already know, and repeating the same path over and over again, doing the same thing. Or it is to most people, as this is how you get most gold and items in the shortest amount of time. Which is kind of boring for me. But if you want gold, this is the best way to go. I would rather explore and do missions/quests though.
The sollution has been suggested before: make drops per enemy killed less frequent for parties, depending on party size. Soloing would still be rewarding in terms of gold and items gained compared to doing qiests, missions, etc., but less so.
gerardus
well i think that solo farming is great but a little boring after a while (wich is a opinion) but my best farming i SF with 5 men with a little fun with it and u dont feel alone but 4 money and stuff only i will train my monk for that because the money side ain't bad either but i miss a lot off fun that way but for short notice i choose solo
ivanbrooking
Neutral to Solo Farming.
I've just ascended and got into Droknar, thinking of getting great new armour at last - but the 5k I have won't cover it, let alone all the steel etc required. Runes too are v.expensive - way out of my league. The only ones I've got have been from drops and some cheap ones I got in the beginning. Dyes, black dye especially, cost way too much for me. I don't see any option but to solo farm somewhere if I want these things. Maybe I'll just carry on with the quests though - far more fun than spending hours trying to get gold for some armour that'll be useless by the time I get to ring of fire.
If buying stuff from NPCs pushes up the price, shouldn't selling stuff to them bring the prices back down again? Maybe it works like this already but it doesn't seem so.
Perhaps if trading between players is limited to items and not gold, then perhaps the economy can be effectively controlled without intervetion by the devs??
There must be someone doing an economy thesis or something out there who'd like to take a closer look at the Guildwars economics/
I've just ascended and got into Droknar, thinking of getting great new armour at last - but the 5k I have won't cover it, let alone all the steel etc required. Runes too are v.expensive - way out of my league. The only ones I've got have been from drops and some cheap ones I got in the beginning. Dyes, black dye especially, cost way too much for me. I don't see any option but to solo farm somewhere if I want these things. Maybe I'll just carry on with the quests though - far more fun than spending hours trying to get gold for some armour that'll be useless by the time I get to ring of fire.
If buying stuff from NPCs pushes up the price, shouldn't selling stuff to them bring the prices back down again? Maybe it works like this already but it doesn't seem so.
Perhaps if trading between players is limited to items and not gold, then perhaps the economy can be effectively controlled without intervetion by the devs??
There must be someone doing an economy thesis or something out there who'd like to take a closer look at the Guildwars economics/
Hanuman li Tosh
i really dont care if people take it seriously for one, and i dont have time to screenshot and link everything. the fact is that if someone doesent like what i say they are going to argue with me regardless of any link or screenie i post. like i mentioned the first time around people told me flat out if it was an exploit anet would nerf it and then anet nerfed it. afterwards do you think those people pm'd me and said 'wow according to my own words now its officially an exploit'?
ahh, i understand some of the confusion now...
yes i did mean higher levels. as close to the exact words as i can recall were "for anyone to be able to solo several creatures of higher levels was obviously never intended by the devs..."
that would be anywhere that people solo farm in the game except riverside, which is broken. i assumed that evrybody who solo farms farms areas where useable/sellable loot drops.
ahh, i understand some of the confusion now...
Quote:
i was in LA Id1 last week and gaile gray was doing Q&A and told me directly the solo farming was not supposed to be able to happen and that it is an exploit. thats good enough for me but people will argue it anyway. let them. |
that would be anywhere that people solo farm in the game except riverside, which is broken. i assumed that evrybody who solo farms farms areas where useable/sellable loot drops.
Loviatar
here are the actual words themselves.
Quote:
And for those who are concerned (I won't say "whining" but others have ) about farming, why in Dwayna's name do you think you should be able to solo some of the highest level areas to farm? How realistic is that expectation? I mean, if you could in the past -- and if that wasn't intended or balanced -- does that mean it should be left for players to do so indefinitely? No criticism for farmers, not at all. But in a game built on strategy and teamwork, like Guild Wars, it simply doesn't seem to me that it's reasonable to ask to play the highest end content as a solo player. |
EternalTempest
Thank you for finding that post, curious what page in the 77 page threads in the Nov 10/11 patch debate did you exactly find it. I gave up looking for it.
mm00re
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
here are the actual words themselves.
|
I wish for the final time, ANET come right out and say what your official position is on this subject so this can end this debate.
I am sick of this.
Loviatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalTempest
Thank you for finding that post, curious what page in the 77 page threads in the Nov 10/11 patch debate did you exactly find it. I gave up looking for it.
|
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...193#post662193
Pandora's box
Look, Gaile Gray is simply the PR person, and she clearly has a kind of view on gaming that's not the kind of view of the majority of the gaming world. It does not say anything about how the rest of the devellopers feel, not to mention that successfull games change while playing, change towards the way players like to play. Since solo farming is so much appreciated this WILL become an issue of importance, no matter if it was intended or not.
Its understandable that high level areas should be difficult. But the statement
should be changed by now into:
since solo playing is now an integrated, well respeced part of GW... Its this fact that needs to be accepted, and a commercial team of devellopers better change their attitude in this, no matter what was intended in the past...
Its understandable that high level areas should be difficult. But the statement
Quote:
in a game built on strategy and teamwork |
Quote:
in a game built on strategy and teamwork AND solo playing |
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandora's box
Look, Gaile Gray is simply the PR person, and she clearly has a kind of view on gaming that's not the kind of view of the majority of the gaming world. It does not say anything about how the rest of the devellopers feel, not to mention that successfull games change while playing, change towards the way players like to play. Since solo farming is so much appreciated this WILL become an issue of importance, no matter if it was intended or not.
Its understandable that high level areas should be difficult. But the statement should be changed by now into: since solo playing is now an integrated, well respeced part of GW... Its this fact that needs to be accepted, and a commercial team of devellopers better change their attitude in this, no matter what was intended in the past... |
gaile might be just some PR person to most people. if you are that shallow in your thinking that is far as you are going to get. the PR person is your direct link to anet. she does as she is told just like any other PR (i should know i am one). demands are in most cases thrown out the window. a suggestion on the other hand might get more merit (notice the word "might" in there).
soloing was never part of the plan and now they are fixing it. now people have grown this slot machine addiction to it. with anet's gold figures of 75% of the players have less than 20k gold that 75% is probly not farming abusively. that would mean that the majority of pve players are not abusing farming therefor it will not hurt them as bad as some people may think to stop soloing.
i remember the days of release when the game was vibrante and alive. now go to the wilds and see what you get. a bunch of lvl 20s that bulldoze through everything. shame to see the game's pve decline so much.
I pwnd U
as high as prices are most people HAVE to solo. w/ runes up at the high of 100k and others around 10-20k they have to solo. i know people will say taht they are rare b/c people do solo and tahts y the prices are high. THAT IS WRONG!! prices are high because people want them and tehy are rare. if people who soloed found them then they wouldnt be so much in demand and they would be less.
to address yur 75% of people have less then 20k so they prolly dont farm i would like to say that is not completely accurate. first of all even if someone doesnt solo they can stil have over 20k. all they have to do is save there money. ive done it before. i had around 47k w/o soloing or farming. most people spend their gold like crazy. and w/ runes prices up so high they think its the only way to do it. then once they get enough they spend it all and they are back down below 20k so taht would put them in the 75% even w/ them soloing.
to the 20s bulldozing through the wilds they are proly getting paid too do taht. taht is crap. that should be proly be nerfed somehow. thats whats casueing the pves decline not soloers or farmers.
im sure i will get flamed on this and many flaws will be pointed out but just remember this is my opinion. i am just addressing issues that were posted ahead of me. but i am stil for soloing.
the soloers are actualy helping the non soloers. by find rare items they can lower prices if they become in abundance so it allows the people w/ under 20k to buy them.
to address yur 75% of people have less then 20k so they prolly dont farm i would like to say that is not completely accurate. first of all even if someone doesnt solo they can stil have over 20k. all they have to do is save there money. ive done it before. i had around 47k w/o soloing or farming. most people spend their gold like crazy. and w/ runes prices up so high they think its the only way to do it. then once they get enough they spend it all and they are back down below 20k so taht would put them in the 75% even w/ them soloing.
to the 20s bulldozing through the wilds they are proly getting paid too do taht. taht is crap. that should be proly be nerfed somehow. thats whats casueing the pves decline not soloers or farmers.
im sure i will get flamed on this and many flaws will be pointed out but just remember this is my opinion. i am just addressing issues that were posted ahead of me. but i am stil for soloing.
the soloers are actualy helping the non soloers. by find rare items they can lower prices if they become in abundance so it allows the people w/ under 20k to buy them.
KaPe
"as high as prices are most people HAVE to solo"
No, you don't. Simple as that and explained million times before. You *want* to solo, because you *want* those expensive items, you don't *need* them. Learn the difference between those words before you use them as argument.
No, you don't. Simple as that and explained million times before. You *want* to solo, because you *want* those expensive items, you don't *need* them. Learn the difference between those words before you use them as argument.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by I pwnd U
as high as prices are most people HAVE to solo. w/ runes up at the high of 100k and others around 10-20k they have to solo. i know people will say taht they are rare b/c people do solo and tahts y the prices are high. THAT IS WRONG!! prices are high because people want them and tehy are rare. if people who soloed found them then they wouldnt be so much in demand and they would be less.
to address yur 75% of people have less then 20k so they prolly dont farm i would like to say that is not completely accurate. first of all even if someone doesnt solo they can stil have over 20k. all they have to do is save there money. ive done it before. i had around 47k w/o soloing or farming. most people spend their gold like crazy. and w/ runes prices up so high they think its the only way to do it. then once they get enough they spend it all and they are back down below 20k so taht would put them in the 75% even w/ them soloing. to the 20s bulldozing through the wilds they are proly getting paid too do taht. taht is crap. that should be proly be nerfed somehow. thats whats casueing the pves decline not soloers or farmers. im sure i will get flamed on this and many flaws will be pointed out but just remember this is my opinion. i am just addressing issues that were posted ahead of me. but i am stil for soloing. the soloers are actualy helping the non soloers. by find rare items they can lower prices if they become in abundance so it allows the people w/ under 20k to buy them. |
btw you should notice that word "probly." that means by most accounts true but not all. bet you 90% of that 75% margine is new players that can't afford crap b/c prices are sky high with drops rates being crap for groups.
the funniest thing i notice about this is look at the proffesions on people's profile. look at the relatoinship of where they stand on this arguement and look at their profession. notice any w/mo or mo/w among the crowd?
Guardian of the Light
Well I think the issue here isn't whether Solo-Farming should be allowed it is WHERE solo-farming should be allowed.
I personally say that only the desert should be the farming area becuase the most common form of solo-farming (griffon farming) is availible to EVERY profession.
However on the other hand I don't agree with Soloing the UW. Come on the Underworld is sposed to be the highest lvl of difficulty and the only profession that can go in alone is the 55 monk or ele (yep eles can go 55 too) now a days.
Asclon,, Shiverpeaks North ,, Kryta North ,, Jungle Place ,,,Kryta South ,,,
Desert ,,, South Shiverpeaks ,,,| Ring of Fire ,,, UW
..........................................^
Where I draw the Line
Include something like after your agruements if what to agrue WHERE solo-farming should take place.
I personally say that only the desert should be the farming area becuase the most common form of solo-farming (griffon farming) is availible to EVERY profession.
However on the other hand I don't agree with Soloing the UW. Come on the Underworld is sposed to be the highest lvl of difficulty and the only profession that can go in alone is the 55 monk or ele (yep eles can go 55 too) now a days.
Asclon,, Shiverpeaks North ,, Kryta North ,, Jungle Place ,,,Kryta South ,,,
Desert ,,, South Shiverpeaks ,,,| Ring of Fire ,,, UW
..........................................^
Where I draw the Line
Include something like after your agruements if what to agrue WHERE solo-farming should take place.
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Include something like after your agruements if what to agrue WHERE solo-farming should take place.
|
it was never suppose to be apart of the game. the drop rate wasn't made for it. the econemy wasn't made for it. skills have been nerfed to only stem solo farming b/c of a dumb AI. no one had a problem with pro bond in pvp. how about balth aura. now its just a very high energy cost, long casting, long recharge bug repelant. sure it was used in pvp with the e/mo but it wasn't overpowered in that environment. usually stripped as soon as you use it.
give the skills back and improve the AI.
Guardian of the Light
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
NO WHERE
it was never suppose to be apart of the game. the drop rate wasn't made for it. the econemy wasn't made for it. skills have been nerfed to only stem solo farming b/c of a dumb AI. no one had a problem with pro bond in pvp. how about balth aura. now its just a very high energy cost, long casting, long recharge bug repelant. sure it was used in pvp with the e/mo but it wasn't overpowered in that environment. usually stripped as soon as you use it. give the skills back and improve the AI. |
I want you to think what you said there.......you are saying you should solo-farm no where INCLUDED charr in ascalon and other extremely low lvl places. Please think some more before opening your mouth
Banebow
Quote:
Originally Posted by I pwnd U
i had around 47k w/o soloing or farming
|
twicky_kid, the 75% with less than 20k is highly inaccurate. I have had well below 20k total many times, but I also had three full sets of 15k armor at the same time. A better thing to see would be the average net worth of every account, but since that cannot be calculated, we will not see it.
What really gets me is all the solo farmers saying "omg don't nerf farming!" and all the anti-solo farmers saying "omg nerf farming!". No matter what happens, farming will exist. The real problem is the massive imbalance of "loot" between the two groups. It is possible to fix that imbalance without touching solo farmers, please no more of these calls for farming nerfs, or people complaining about whiners trying to get farming nerfed. The problem is not farming. The problem is the imbalance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Include something like after your agruements if what to agrue WHERE solo-farming should take place.
|
twicky_kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Please think some more before opening your mouth
|
about imbalances yes there are great imbalances between loot from groups and soloing. my problem with this is how many skills are they going to nerf before they get it right. btw enjoy your spitefull spirit while is last. since its being abused to solo UW expect to see its dmg and/or duration decreased. yes another great pvp skill out the window due to farmers.
while all these skills nerfs are for pve (which means nothing as this game is more pvp oriented) those nerfs carry over to pvp. pvp is a place where most of the now nerfed skills were never abused in the first place, besides ether renewal and zealous fire.
i do agree that the 20k marker is a little low and not entirely accurate. it does however give some insite of HOW many people have mass amounts of gold. 25% of the population has more than 20k readily available to use. that can easily affect the econemy greatly if focused on a few items (mainly 1 ecto). don't know about you but i have decked any character i have made out with about 30k.
Banebow
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
(which means nothing as this game is more pvp oriented)
|
Also, I believe the spiteful spirit builds are using two people, correct? That does not count as solo farming.
So, to you, the big problem is that solo farming causes massive skill nerfs?
Guardian of the Light
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
maybe you should go back and read your first post. might want to read that part about not flaming people for their ideas. oh what's that on your profile profession? a w/mo wow, what a surprise. thank you and have a good day
about imbalances yes there are great imbalances between loot from groups and soloing. my problem with this is how many skills are they going to nerf before they get it right. btw enjoy your spitefull spirit while is last. since its being abused to solo UW expect to see its dmg and/or duration decreased. yes another great pvp skill out the window due to farmers. while all these skills nerfs are for pve (which means nothing as this game is more pvp oriented) those nerfs carry over to pvp. pvp is a place where most of the now nerfed skills were never abused in the first place, besides ether renewal and zealous fire. i do agree that the 20k marker is a little low and not entirely accurate. it does however give some insite of HOW many people have mass amounts of gold. 25% of the population has more than 20k readily available to use. that can easily affect the econemy greatly if focused on a few items (mainly 1 ecto). don't know about you but i have decked any character i have made out with about 30k. |
Besides soloing isn't impossilble without a solo-farm build. Heres a story I have for you.
I was with 5 other rangers in a The Wilds mission one was able to heal a bit but still healing wasn't really there. Near the end of the mission all the rangers died and I was left to fight off these 3 lvl 17 spiders with my lvl 16 W/Mo .....
I ran away and decided to heal myself up. I went around and tryed to res as many rangers as I could without agroing the Spiders. I resed 2 then the spiders attacked. Thanks to DP the rangers died in 2 seconds.....I said screw it and charged after the spiders. I kill one and kept myself alive I use healing breeze andI managed to kill them all . We won the mission.
I also I know some builds for Nercos, Elementists and Rangers.
Elementist: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=80332
Nerco: Get all the stuff the 55 monk has and then add Aura of the Lich to make the super cheap 27 nerco
Ranger: I forget the link there was a solo trap build for UW.
I might also add warriors now seem to be the only ones who can't do UW farming so mybe they are the ones who are the most misfuntuate.
Pandora's box
twicky_kid
I'm sorry but your information about builds seems a little bit outdated. Solo farming is done by much more professions nowadays than mo/wa or wo/mo. Unfortunately, due to the nerfing, people are unwilling to reveal their builds on the board. But by using the search button you might be able to find some
As for people working for Anet: I think they do a great job! Including Gaile Gray as PR manager. Yet there's always a thin edge between what your profession wants you to do and your personal feelings. What I would like is an official statement of Anet about solo farming on their homepage. I can't do anything with grapevine talks, in game talks, q and a sessions of individual persons.
Too often we hear how things are meant to be. Well, a commercial company will change content according to stockmarket principles. So if 90% of the GW population would make clear they like to play solo (I know, its not that many ), than its just a matter of supply and demand that determins the next step... Allowing soloing.
Bottomline: An official statement of Anet would be very welcome.
I'm sorry but your information about builds seems a little bit outdated. Solo farming is done by much more professions nowadays than mo/wa or wo/mo. Unfortunately, due to the nerfing, people are unwilling to reveal their builds on the board. But by using the search button you might be able to find some
As for people working for Anet: I think they do a great job! Including Gaile Gray as PR manager. Yet there's always a thin edge between what your profession wants you to do and your personal feelings. What I would like is an official statement of Anet about solo farming on their homepage. I can't do anything with grapevine talks, in game talks, q and a sessions of individual persons.
Too often we hear how things are meant to be. Well, a commercial company will change content according to stockmarket principles. So if 90% of the GW population would make clear they like to play solo (I know, its not that many ), than its just a matter of supply and demand that determins the next step... Allowing soloing.
Bottomline: An official statement of Anet would be very welcome.
Fantus
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
anet doesn't have to do a thing and can make any changes they see fit. you do not own, make, create, or control this game. they do.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
soloing was never part of the plan and now they are fixing it.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
now people have grown this slot machine addiction to it. with anet's gold figures of 75% of the players have less than 20k gold that 75% is probly not farming abusively. that would mean that the majority of pve players are not abusing farming therefor it will not hurt them as bad as some people may think to stop soloing.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
i remember the days of release when the game was vibrante and alive. now go to the wilds and see what you get. a bunch of lvl 20s that bulldoze through everything. shame to see the game's pve decline so much.
|
Rabid Weasel
Just my 2p, I solo farm, mainly because i've given myself the goal of obtaining FoW armour. I've completed all the quests in the PvE game, yes, all of them with almost all my charecters. I PvP a little, but i prefer PvE to be honest. Does that mean i'm not allowed to try and solo areas to gain money? Or does it mean i have to sit around for ages waiting for a decent PuG for the later missions?
Repeating the PvE missions over and over does get VERY VERY VERY boring. So i find Soloing areas fun to be honest, reminds me of Diablo 2. Just because one person doesn't like soloing, doesn't mean they have to b!tch and moan it needs to be nurfed and ruin somone else enjoyment of the game. If you ask me, you should be flaming the Bot's and people who run them, THEY are the ones ruining the game if you ask me, not us Solo farmers who farm because they need the money.
Sure, go ahead and tell me this that and the other, i don't care, i'm going to solo farm as that's how i like playing the game.
Anyway, last i heard, this was a RPG, as in a "Role Playing" game, RPG's are meant to be played how YOU like, not how other people like, so my "role" is playing a farmer when i'm not being a mesmer necro or now my new ele.
Repeating the PvE missions over and over does get VERY VERY VERY boring. So i find Soloing areas fun to be honest, reminds me of Diablo 2. Just because one person doesn't like soloing, doesn't mean they have to b!tch and moan it needs to be nurfed and ruin somone else enjoyment of the game. If you ask me, you should be flaming the Bot's and people who run them, THEY are the ones ruining the game if you ask me, not us Solo farmers who farm because they need the money.
Sure, go ahead and tell me this that and the other, i don't care, i'm going to solo farm as that's how i like playing the game.
Anyway, last i heard, this was a RPG, as in a "Role Playing" game, RPG's are meant to be played how YOU like, not how other people like, so my "role" is playing a farmer when i'm not being a mesmer necro or now my new ele.
aron searle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantus
Bullshit. Most people farm for money to SPEND it. I tell you a secret: I rarely have more than like 10k of money in my bank. I possess armor and items worth at least 2 million gold, but to Anet's statistics I must appear QUITE poor. . |
Yet i have spent on varios equipment on myself and guildees aprrox 600k, what people have in their pockets is quite misleading.
KaPe
"so my "role" is playing a farmer when i'm not being a mesmer necro or now my new ele."
If you want to "roleplay a farmer", buy a cow, farm, grow crops Repeteadly killing monsters over and over just to become rich is not roleplaying.
If you want to "roleplay a farmer", buy a cow, farm, grow crops Repeteadly killing monsters over and over just to become rich is not roleplaying.
Fantus
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaPe
"so my "role" is playing a farmer when i'm not being a mesmer necro or now my new ele."
If you want to "roleplay a farmer", buy a cow, farm, grow crops Repeteadly killing monsters over and over just to become rich is not roleplaying. |
KaPe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantus
GW isn't even a "roleplaying" game in that sense. It doesn't have ANY support for jobs or craftsmanship or the like. It doesn't even support social roleplaying because there aren't even things like taverns or inns in GW. If you want to have this, go play WoW or EQ. GW is about bashing things up, and it's quite good in that area.
|
Rabid Weasel
I am farming crops. My crops happen to be Hydras!
Well actually you are wrong... a lot of role playing games aim is to find loot and to do this, is..... yep you guessed it, repeteadly killing monsters!
Me solo'ing to get money is the same as me joining a PuG and getting money that way. Just quicker.
Don't get me wrong tho, i do enjoy playing the later missions, SF and FoW/UW missions a few times. But sometimes you just wanna jump on the game and get going rather than waiting around for a Pug.
My main point is that this debate will go on for ever, with both sides not backing down. As i said, yes i do farm and yes i enjoy it, but i also like helping PuG's with my monk. I think it's safe to say this debate won't have an end...
Well actually you are wrong... a lot of role playing games aim is to find loot and to do this, is..... yep you guessed it, repeteadly killing monsters!
Me solo'ing to get money is the same as me joining a PuG and getting money that way. Just quicker.
Don't get me wrong tho, i do enjoy playing the later missions, SF and FoW/UW missions a few times. But sometimes you just wanna jump on the game and get going rather than waiting around for a Pug.
My main point is that this debate will go on for ever, with both sides not backing down. As i said, yes i do farm and yes i enjoy it, but i also like helping PuG's with my monk. I think it's safe to say this debate won't have an end...
aron searle
The End
Fantus
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaPe
It's an amazing discovery, good thing you told me, 'cause I didn't know that. Now explain that to someone above, whose argument for solo farming is that he "roleplays a farmer". Out of all arguments, that one has to be rock bottom.
|
PS: ooops, sorry, Aron - I probably wasn't supposed to post under "The End"
aron searle
Lets just call it
Episode 2 attack of the farmers
Episode 2 attack of the farmers
Fantus
Quote:
Originally Posted by aron searle
Lets just call it
Episode 2 attack of the farmers |
"Episode III: Revenge of the Soloists"
kvndoom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Weasel
I am farming crops. My crops happen to be Hydras!
|
I pwnd U
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
I second that!
|
Joe Nexxius
I am for solo farming.
I have played for awhile now and it was all I had left to do in the game. After the last update my playing time has decreased by atleast 50% because the game is no longer fun. As far as farming ruining the game...I believe greed is what threw the economy out of whack, not farming. I have fissure armor for three of my four characters, and I have half the supplies to get it for my fourth. I have never sold ecto to another player or npc and 99% of the gold/green items I have gotten...if I didn't need them...I gave to a guildmate or have given to a low level player.
I have played for awhile now and it was all I had left to do in the game. After the last update my playing time has decreased by atleast 50% because the game is no longer fun. As far as farming ruining the game...I believe greed is what threw the economy out of whack, not farming. I have fissure armor for three of my four characters, and I have half the supplies to get it for my fourth. I have never sold ecto to another player or npc and 99% of the gold/green items I have gotten...if I didn't need them...I gave to a guildmate or have given to a low level player.
glountz
My 2 cents.
I'm against solo farming. Not against solo-farmers (and keep this in mind before any flaming).
I will try to be clear, sorry if i'm not, I'm not an english native speaker.
1) Solo farming does not enhance teamplay.
As said and ackowledged before, I won't add something on this.
2)Solo farming is not the game purpose.
I am a casual player. When I bought the game, one of the ad which attracted me was : "GUild Wars, the only MMORPG where skill is more important than time played". With solo farming, time is more important than skill, even if it requires some for sure. And solo farming will bring really more gold to an hardcore gamer than a casual player. And more gold means more advantages (You will be able to pay to run your other low level characters to Droknar, then pay them the best armors/items/skills, then bring them in low level areas to farm faction points for PVP by twinking). I second Banebow on the issue of wealth against time.
3) Solo farming ruins the economy.
And in a very twisted way. Monica Angelina told us the classical economy speech on supply/demand. I agree, solo farmers will bring more items to the market, so supply will be higher, so prices should be kept low. The only missed point is that solo farmers will be able to BUY a lot more than casual players. By solo farming, you will have enough gold to buy that ---- Sup absorption rune thaht didn't drop. Making prices jump higher. Solo farming not only adds to the supply, it adds also to the demand because of the rarity of some items and the ability of the solo farmers (or ebayers) to pay high prices for these items. It's not controlled because as you farm, you CREATE gold from monsters, feeding indeed an incredible inflation (by injection of new gold). It's like the Guild wars government was printing bucks ever and ever.
The issue, however, is not the inflation "itself", it's the wealth distribution. The issue is that the "GW government" is not creating gold for EVERY player in the game. Only the solo farmers will benefit of these gold coins spawning again and again. So what ? Well, casual players can't follow the inflation. Only farmers can. Solo farming is not "ruining" economy for every player, but it separates wealthy players (who have the time to solo farm) and poor players (who don't have time for that). It's like, creating a gap wider and wider between hardcore gamers and casual gamers/questers/roleplayers.
Personally, I solo farm. I hate it. But I need it to buy my low level characters decent equipment so they will be able to compete with low level other characters.
And what's the point ? I am a casual player, I paid the same price for the game than that harcore gamer. For a game said to have an emphasis on skill, I find difficult to accept that because this guy has more time played he will have a better (or better looking) equipment/skill. Yes, skill also, because when you are wealthy, you switch your secondary profession and buy/unlock all the skills for PVP.
I will never have a FoW armor. I left the idea. I can't spend a whole weekend solofarm the UW, to have this ----ed ectos.
4) Solution to nerf solo farming.
I think the problem with solo farming is that it is more profitable than team farming.
- My idea would be to have the number of monsters you encounter directly proportional to the number of the party members.
-Example:
1 guy, 2 monsters in a group.
2 Players, 4 monsters/group. Sometimes a boss.
4 Players, 7 monsters in a group, one boss, more groups on the map.
8 Players, 10 monsters in a group, several bosses in a group, bosses with higher levels. Map filled with mobs hordes.
Henchies do not count as a player for monsters number, but for items, yes.
The monsters would be varied (the less party member there is, the most varied it should be -enchantment/stance stripper should be a lot more numerous). Do not fill the map with only one kind of creature, because if you do so, you can farm it with a creature-specific counter build. Bosses from different profession is one way to go.
-Expected effects:
Yes why do that? With low numbers of monsters, solo farming will be a lot more easier!
Okay I explain:
- Some of the solo farmers are doing it for the challenge, not for gold. I highly respect that. That is I think the main purpose of this game, and it is a shame that you have more challenge by soloing than by teamplaying in PVE.
I don't want them to be taken out this challenge. Here, the thing is that teamplay farming will give a lot more challenge than solo playing. If you go outside with nobody else but you, you will encounter only few guys, so no more challenge, easy fight. Solo challengers will be forced to ally with other if they want real challenge, thus enhancing teamplay, friends, community soliarity etc...
- More monsters=More drops. By now, solo farming is done because there is a lot of monsters to kill, being 2,4,8 members doesn't matter, worst, the more you are, the less you can expect from drops. If there is too few monsters, you will have to travel all over the map (with a few kills only for a long trip). So to solo farm, you will have to take a veeeeery long time to clear the map (so the balance wealth:time will be completely nerfed, and it is one of the main point as explained Banebow). The point is that team farming will be a lot more profitable (with bosses who drops more items (generally rare in addition), and faster. And challenging.
- Explorers who like to cover all the map and admire the beautiful virtual landscapes will be able to do that without problems, as they will encounter few monsters. The trips through Tyria only for fun will be a lot more numerous and quiet.
-As you will need a team to farm, there will be a need for players. Even casual players will be able to play some time with harcore farmers, having drops for them, a good team play, maybe a bit of role playing, the same amount of gold than others, and enhancing challenge, solidarity etc.....
I know there is problems in that and it won't solve the inflation. But it was just a thought.
I'm against solo farming. Not against solo-farmers (and keep this in mind before any flaming).
I will try to be clear, sorry if i'm not, I'm not an english native speaker.
1) Solo farming does not enhance teamplay.
As said and ackowledged before, I won't add something on this.
2)Solo farming is not the game purpose.
I am a casual player. When I bought the game, one of the ad which attracted me was : "GUild Wars, the only MMORPG where skill is more important than time played". With solo farming, time is more important than skill, even if it requires some for sure. And solo farming will bring really more gold to an hardcore gamer than a casual player. And more gold means more advantages (You will be able to pay to run your other low level characters to Droknar, then pay them the best armors/items/skills, then bring them in low level areas to farm faction points for PVP by twinking). I second Banebow on the issue of wealth against time.
3) Solo farming ruins the economy.
And in a very twisted way. Monica Angelina told us the classical economy speech on supply/demand. I agree, solo farmers will bring more items to the market, so supply will be higher, so prices should be kept low. The only missed point is that solo farmers will be able to BUY a lot more than casual players. By solo farming, you will have enough gold to buy that ---- Sup absorption rune thaht didn't drop. Making prices jump higher. Solo farming not only adds to the supply, it adds also to the demand because of the rarity of some items and the ability of the solo farmers (or ebayers) to pay high prices for these items. It's not controlled because as you farm, you CREATE gold from monsters, feeding indeed an incredible inflation (by injection of new gold). It's like the Guild wars government was printing bucks ever and ever.
The issue, however, is not the inflation "itself", it's the wealth distribution. The issue is that the "GW government" is not creating gold for EVERY player in the game. Only the solo farmers will benefit of these gold coins spawning again and again. So what ? Well, casual players can't follow the inflation. Only farmers can. Solo farming is not "ruining" economy for every player, but it separates wealthy players (who have the time to solo farm) and poor players (who don't have time for that). It's like, creating a gap wider and wider between hardcore gamers and casual gamers/questers/roleplayers.
Personally, I solo farm. I hate it. But I need it to buy my low level characters decent equipment so they will be able to compete with low level other characters.
And what's the point ? I am a casual player, I paid the same price for the game than that harcore gamer. For a game said to have an emphasis on skill, I find difficult to accept that because this guy has more time played he will have a better (or better looking) equipment/skill. Yes, skill also, because when you are wealthy, you switch your secondary profession and buy/unlock all the skills for PVP.
I will never have a FoW armor. I left the idea. I can't spend a whole weekend solofarm the UW, to have this ----ed ectos.
4) Solution to nerf solo farming.
I think the problem with solo farming is that it is more profitable than team farming.
- My idea would be to have the number of monsters you encounter directly proportional to the number of the party members.
-Example:
1 guy, 2 monsters in a group.
2 Players, 4 monsters/group. Sometimes a boss.
4 Players, 7 monsters in a group, one boss, more groups on the map.
8 Players, 10 monsters in a group, several bosses in a group, bosses with higher levels. Map filled with mobs hordes.
Henchies do not count as a player for monsters number, but for items, yes.
The monsters would be varied (the less party member there is, the most varied it should be -enchantment/stance stripper should be a lot more numerous). Do not fill the map with only one kind of creature, because if you do so, you can farm it with a creature-specific counter build. Bosses from different profession is one way to go.
-Expected effects:
Yes why do that? With low numbers of monsters, solo farming will be a lot more easier!
Okay I explain:
- Some of the solo farmers are doing it for the challenge, not for gold. I highly respect that. That is I think the main purpose of this game, and it is a shame that you have more challenge by soloing than by teamplaying in PVE.
I don't want them to be taken out this challenge. Here, the thing is that teamplay farming will give a lot more challenge than solo playing. If you go outside with nobody else but you, you will encounter only few guys, so no more challenge, easy fight. Solo challengers will be forced to ally with other if they want real challenge, thus enhancing teamplay, friends, community soliarity etc...
- More monsters=More drops. By now, solo farming is done because there is a lot of monsters to kill, being 2,4,8 members doesn't matter, worst, the more you are, the less you can expect from drops. If there is too few monsters, you will have to travel all over the map (with a few kills only for a long trip). So to solo farm, you will have to take a veeeeery long time to clear the map (so the balance wealth:time will be completely nerfed, and it is one of the main point as explained Banebow). The point is that team farming will be a lot more profitable (with bosses who drops more items (generally rare in addition), and faster. And challenging.
- Explorers who like to cover all the map and admire the beautiful virtual landscapes will be able to do that without problems, as they will encounter few monsters. The trips through Tyria only for fun will be a lot more numerous and quiet.
-As you will need a team to farm, there will be a need for players. Even casual players will be able to play some time with harcore farmers, having drops for them, a good team play, maybe a bit of role playing, the same amount of gold than others, and enhancing challenge, solidarity etc.....
I know there is problems in that and it won't solve the inflation. But it was just a thought.
Loviatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Well dude I can "solo-farm" lvl 8 Charr without a "farming" build that what I am trying to make you see. Your statments about solo-farming not being anywhere are unrealistic. .
|
your crop will be rather small though.
the companies representatives (they do state official policy through their PR people) say that solo (without henchies) of the highest areas is not intended .
i would like to see the devs scale the loot DOWN for solo runners in the top areas and increase the loot for bigger groups
mm00re
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
The issue, however, is not the inflation "itself", it's the wealth distribution. The issue is that the "GW government" is not creating gold for EVERY player in the game. Only the solo farmers will benefit of these gold coins spawning again and again. So what ? Well, casual players can't follow the inflation. Only farmers can. Solo farming is not "ruining" economy for every player, but it separates wealthy players (who have the time to solo farm) and poor players (who don't have time for that). It's like, creating a gap wider and wider between hardcore gamers and casual gamers/questers/roleplayers.
|
1. you have wealthy players and poor players, why do you think this is?
/sarcasm
wealth distribution? is this going to include full healthcare for each player as well?
/end sarcasm
each player, from the very first character started out the same, as a lvl 1 in pre-sear ascalon with NOTHING, no gold, no skills, a single weapon, that's it, it is up to YOU to get better items, farm for experience and gold, and then the one that wants to have more and implements that, uses their skills(in most cases) and one chooses not to, why is that everyone else's problem? Why should the group of people that do something about their need for gold be punshed because they do something they want? that last I recall is NOT against the EULA
next thing you know we will have someone that figures that since a player has fissure armor, someone will walk up to them and demand half their ecto's because they think they are entitled to "wealth distribution" instead of working for it themselves.
2. as for "endless gold" being just generated, can you tell me where the gold and items that drop and go to henchies is going?
Fantus
No flame, only a reply:
So what? Why do people always see the need to forcefully fit every single player into the same kind of gameplay. Just because it's an online game? Oh, please...
see above.
No, it doesn't:
Until here, we agree. Good that at least you acknowledge that there is this effect to the economy, too. Most people arguing in favor of the "Farming screws the economy" theory totally close their eyes to the fact that there is even IS such a thing as a supply side in an economy.
Ok, that's where your line of arguing is flawed: Yes, of course they can buy a lot of things a casual player can't. But for every sup rune a farmer buys, 3 others of the same kind are brought into the economy by OTHER farmers. You are of course right that farming drives up demand. It WOULD cause inflation if it would happen isolated. But farmers bring a lot more items into the economy then they buy themselves. There rarely is a need for a farmer to actually buy stuff on the market anyway since they get most of it on their farming runs. Most farmers I personally know (can't speak for all of course), ended up buying FoW armor eventually. And FoW stuff is actually MEANT to be a money sink.
Again, since farmers bring in a LOT more items into the economy than cash drops, there really is no such thing as inflation caused by farming. I don't even see where the so called inflation is supposed to be - prices for items have been DROPPING since quite a while. At least I haven't seen anyone trying to sell a purple item for 10k anymore since quite a while... The only exception to that is the Ecto price. That happened because A-net tried to nerf UW farming. The few other prices that can be considered inflated are Sup Vigor and Sup Absorption runes. That happened because here the demand FAR exceeds the supply (also remember that A-net nerfed the drop rates multiple times). Farmers are even helpful here because they at least bring SOME of those items into the economy (I sold many many sup runes to the NPC trader, including vigors and I am sure other farmers did so as well).
As for the wealth distribution thing: Yes, of course people who play the game longer tend to end up with more items and money (that's true for all players, not only solo farmers). If you really want to get rid of that you need to take the economy out of the game and give everyone the same equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
1) Solo farming does not enhance teamplay. As said and ackowledged before, I won't add something on this. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
2)Solo farming is not the game purpose.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
3) Solo farming ruins the economy.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
And in a very twisted way. Monica Angelina told us the classical economy speech on supply/demand. I agree, solo farmers will bring more items to the market, so supply will be higher, so prices should be kept low.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
The only missed point is that solo farmers will be able to BUY a lot more than casual players. By solo farming, you will have enough gold to buy that ---- Sup absorption rune thaht didn't drop. Making prices jump higher. Solo farming not only adds to the supply, it adds also to the demand because of the rarity of some items and the ability of the solo farmers (or ebayers) to pay high prices for these items.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
The issue, however, is not the inflation "itself", it's the wealth distribution. The issue is that the "GW government" is not creating gold for EVERY player in the game. Only the solo farmers will benefit of these gold coins spawning again and again. So what ? Well, casual players can't follow the inflation. Only farmers can. Solo farming is not "ruining" economy for every player, but it separates wealthy players (who have the time to solo farm) and poor players (who don't have time for that).
|
As for the wealth distribution thing: Yes, of course people who play the game longer tend to end up with more items and money (that's true for all players, not only solo farmers). If you really want to get rid of that you need to take the economy out of the game and give everyone the same equipment.