DEBATE: Solo-Farming

I don't care.

At the end of the day, my 15>50 collector's weapons do just as much as any 15>50 eternal/crystalline/whatnot.

*YAWN* are you gusy still argueing about that....o well I'm more neutral now I don't really care if they nerf farming or not I'll just go SF farm if they do.

Happy Debating

If there wasn't the ablity to solo farm in this game, many people would already have left or wouldn't have bought the game. I actually bought it because I read and heard it was "solo friendly". I've left countless other mmorpgs because they were group/guild "forced" oriented.

When I sit down for entertainment I don't like to be told how to play or who I must play with. For the most part I don't like other people, especially strangers, and in this game and most others, there's way too many children. (99.9% retards). Yes, I'm exageraing. But, I enjoy my alone time in the game just as much as I do in real life. Not everyone is a socializer, and many would say why not just play a single player game offline then. Well I pay $30 a month for a connection to the internet, I might as well get something back out of it besides an email account, don'tcha think?

I've enjoyed every moment of GW's. I've grouped, been in guilds (never stayed, too many bossy kids lol) BTW ANY ADULT GUILDS OUT THERE over 20ish more 30ish?? I just can't deal with juviniles telling me how to play my character. Was the same in other mmorpgs, like they had more experience than I did and I can play these games 12 hours a day plus if I want to. (Retired at 45 ) Son is grown off into his own world, parents are dead, GF left me for the milkman I think lol (I'd still like to shake his hand) They just don't understand us guys gotta have our gaming and alone time. lol

But, at any rate the vote is YES for SOLO farming, and I'm neutral on invicimonks, they don't affect my gameplay whatsoever. I don't buy anything from any other players (sell a lot though), I go out and look for it myself. I don't see any challenge or fun in "buying" everything one gets. Cause after level 20 and you got all your skills, farming is all that's really left unless you are into total pvp and I do that from time to time, but, constantly doing it just gets as boring as anything else.

So keep farming in, and increase the gold drops some more.

You see, the real problem with solo-farming is that there is an imbalance in loot distribution between playing solo and playing in a group. In a group, you get 1/8th of what a solo-farmer gets. This causes people to feel like they HAVE to solo-farm to make money like everyone else. If being in a group of 8 gave as much loot in the same amount of time as solo-farming, there would be no problem, and you could still solo-farm if that is the way you want to play, without any penalties for doing so.

Its more fun to farm in a group, but farming is done for the cash, so i can spend 3hrs in UW doing quests with friends and get 0 ecto, 1 if im REALLY lucky, or spend 1hr solo and get 5-6 ecto, id much prefer going into UW with a group of friends and gettin the same drops.
Perhpas if they stopped nerfing skills and drops, but instead made the drop rate proportional to the number of players in the team then they would have no problem with farmers.

I know exactly how you feel Red, im not that old, just about an adult, but i cant stand the kids in this game, you go into pvp and get some bossy little 14yr old with his wolf avatar telling you how to play, they seem to get disillusioned by their in-game achievements, not understanding that an MMO does not requite skill or intelligence to succeed.

Anet's attitude towards solo farming is debatable. but unfortunately their actions affect all the solo farmers in the game.

All of the nerfs are not specifically aimed at the regular Joe Soaps out there, but are aimed at farming agents and sweatshops that intend to sell the gold on ebay. We all know of the guys that are online 24/7 in Lion's Arch selling more perfect items than it is humanly possible to get as a single solo farmer. These practices push prices up so ridiculously that the rest of us have to resort to solo farming just to keep up with the prices.

WTS absolutly rubbish fiery dragon sword with mediocre mods (100k + 2 ecto).......when this stops, solo farming will not be as necessary as it is now.

I like solo farming, but in 2000 hrs have only found a handful of perfect items....but if various forms of coloured fruit (you know who I mean) are selling perfect items 24/7 in LA...Anet really does need to do something about it.

I'm all for "groups" that want to group to get a more proportionate size in loot drops on a comparative basis on one who solos. Compare the time it would take a soloist to clear a zone and get all those drops and then average it out for the time it would take a "group" to clear that same zone and average it out so each type of player would enjoy the benefits of the same amount of loot.

8 people can definitely romp through a zone a lot faster than I can as a soloist. Now, the question is, should they get "more" loot or "equal" loot?

I think a good place to test this out would be Diessa Lowlands, it's a pretty easy zone for a level 20 soloist and certainly easy for 8 level 20's in a group.
Have them both run the zone and clear it and keep track of the time and loot distribution, then balance according so that each person in the group and the soloist get equal proportions valued for their "time spent there".

As it is now, yes, the soloist rules when it comes to loot and intake of loot. He/she gets it all. Once you have all your skills, experience is nothing, it's all about the loot then and how much you can accumulate in a hours play, you know in like "loot per hour" equation. I'll tell yah though about an hour is about all I can put into "farming". I'd rather go help noobs get through Thirsty River and Thunderhead Keep myself.

And they didn't nerf my solo ability at all, I never used those online templates anyway. I've experimented for hours and days trying out other combinatsions of skills, sometimes even "running" is involved. As they say, there's more than one way to skin a cat. What they did do in some cases is make it take longer to kill the same amount of mobs in a certain amount of time, that I will give them. Having AI run on the AOE skills defnitely takes longer to take them all out now.

OH AND DON"T EMAIL ME ASKING FOR MY FARMING TEMPLATE, I WON'T EVEN REPLY. Sit down and figure one out yourself, it's more FUN that way. And when you DO figure it out KEEP YOUR FAT MOUTH SHUT and you won't see these nerfs.

I've been thinking about this the last few days, although I would like A-net to confirm this, I think I know the reason why they dislike solo farming.

96 people in Lions Arch; if they all solo farm, thats 96 worlds that have to be created, thats a lot of bandwidth they have to use (and pay for). If they go as a 6 person team, now that is only 16 worlds.

So what they really want to do is discourage solo farming (and ebay will take care of itself). Have the different weapon styles and assorted upgrade available from weapon crafter.

For instance, Thornbeard's Bow: eletric bowstring, +7 armor grip and 17% damage when enchated (like that ever happens), on an ivory: 8-15 k. This bow can be put together for a lot less, and Iyou'll enjoy it more,it like rebuilding your own car.

excellent post, btw

, 1/2 of which are mules and just stand around, occasionally spamming WTS.

they not spamming WTS. but WTB, if u cant understand wat they spam. dun simply post here

I am neutral. If people enjoy solo-farming let them. However, they should be aware that if the game is designed properly a solo party should have no chance against against a balanced team comprised of comparably leveled opponents. Any environment which allows this to happen is NOT designed properly. Those environments will hopefully be corrected.

Neutral
A good example of why farming isn't good or evil is the game Sacred. If anyone ever played it on hardcore mod they would have known how fun it was because of the awesome community... (not the super buggy game)

So what are the notable differences that makes most GW players selfish when compared to the prior mentioned game?

1.) In Sacred items were given for free to complete strangers simply because the high level guys had more than they could use and had NO gold sinks. aka (the drop rate in GW is very pathetic for both solo farming and group farming). Per kill this rate is the same for everyone -- LOW. Also the concept of gold sinks like FOW armor is the cause of people being greedy... They have to be to get what they want! Sure they don't "need" these gold sinks, but they do want them so it's irrelivant wither or not they are needed. Tell me... just why does this game need gold sinks???

2.) Capacity to give away items also differs drom Sacred. In Sacred one is able to drop items on the ground in locations with high populations. This means that it's not costly to search for people who will be able to use the gear you found.

Final thoughts... People farmed constantly in sacred and didn't hurt the community. Instead they made everyone happy. If everyone being happy is not a good thing then just make the game a grind and people will work for what they want.

If this is not the goal, then reduce the transaction costs of sharing items and for heavens sake REMOVE gold sinks! They are then number one reason people are stingy. I WANT A NICE COMMUNITY!

(on a side note)- unless henge swords are not returned to the game or removed from it entirely... gold sinks will always remain, and farming will be encouraged.

Lets pretend no gold sinks existed. Quickly, gold would build up in the economy. Massive inflation would follow. Before long, charr carvings would be going for 1 platinum. Ectoplasms, or sapphires, or some other item, would become the currency, and gold would be useless. I do not think that is such a great idea, since that would just alienate new players.

Well you're right... bartering would be the primary method of trade. BUT it wouldn't be in ecto or shards :P because fow armor wouldn't be a gold sink! Instead it would be in "perfect" weapons/shields/foci. Char carving wouldn't go for 1K because nobody would want that 1K :P... hehehe as you said, "gold would be useless".

Now how would new players be alienated from play? Sure they wouldn't have items to barter with, but without gold sinks there would be no reason to barter other than to get that "perfect" weapon that don't make a noticable difference anyways. Good weapons are easily availiable in the game, so removing gold sinks would not alienate those poor new players. After all, this game is built around making it easy for new players to complete.

In fact, without the need to sell everything to aquire those large piles of gold (for a gold sink), people would be more inclined to give the non-perfect stuff away, and since newbs don't have those perfect items to barter with, they couldn't be charged for services. Running would no longer be a service, because the people who can barter with their perfect weapons, wouldn't need ran. WOW people would have to play through the game like it was meant to be played - by fighting.

Now you'll probably say that gold is necessary to be able to buy special stuff like prestigous armor or black dye. Sure I want the prestigous stuff, but optimally those times should be based on skill aka experience/deaths or something the truely guages accomplishments (not hours spent playing). I'll resist mentioning the poor system of rank, which doesn't account for losses

Gold is good for one thing only. It makes trading easier. Trade is fine... but when you add the sink, everything goes down the drain. Solution: drop the gold sinks (I'd just remove gold completely... ok i'm dreaming), establish better trading systems, and watch the fun factor go up.

Just one last thing off my chest... People play for two reasons. They are addicted to the game -> gold sinks worth mentioning, or they actually enjoy the game. My opinion is that the latter is a better method of modeling a game, and should be our reason to buy chapter 2.

an addiction to this game is so wide spread its kind of scary. people complain and get all stressed 7 months later when there are no monthly fees. i can understand if i was paying $XX a month i want some kind of say so if the game changes. addiction is what keeps these people here. if you liked the game you wouldn't be stressed or complaining as much (there will always be flaws).

henge swords do not need to be removed from the game. i only use the sword for my runner and 1 build for my monk. other than that a 20/20 staff will beat the henge sword. having 70-80+ armor on my non-warrior class is much better than that +5 energy.

the only gold sink that really hurts the game is the skill cost. i was yelling when it i got up to 600g for a skill. for those people that had it up to 5k a skill you didn't have to get it that high. you can unlock every skill on the game with 3 pve slots.

I don't think you understand. If gold has no value, the only way for a player to acquire items is from pure luck. A new player coming into the game will have almost zero chance of ever attaining that max damage crystalline sword. Armor would have to be handed to you at each town, with no cost, because you could never afford the materials. Weapon crafters would have to start handing out weapons for free, since no one would have gold to buy the weapons. Dye traders would have to be removed from the game, since they barter in gold. Max damage weapons worth anything would get harder and harder to get, soon the only items of worth would be max damage 15>50 10/10 penetration +30 health fellblades and chaos axes.

And you are incorrect, charr carvings would be in demand. Once players realized that they could never attain a perfect weapon, collector items would be the norm. Griffon wings and other similar items would skyrocket in value.

Removing gold from the system will fix a few problems, but cause an astronomical amount of others.

why should invincimonk be nerfed? just because so many people take that as the easy way out? it still takes money to make one of those. the invincimonk was very clever, nothing wrong about using it int he underworld. same with ractoths warrior necro build. he used his brain and though outside of the box to come up with that, theres nothin wrong with soloing the underworld if you can find a way to do it. its not like your cheating or something

after the initial investment to build an invisimonk you could not make an unlimited amount of money. start up cost means nothing.

its nothing to do with morals or cheating. its all about the econemy and prices. more soloing more inflation. also degrades pve into a solo only playing field where you have to rely on henches to do mission b/c everyone else is soloing.

there have been more and more suggestions to fix the loot distribution. i think we are all sick of the low drops and no team reward. they see these suggestions. i will be fixed just give them time.

We have been talking about it for almost two weeks now, certainly some of us have been thinking about the problem for over a month. Now, it may be like spirit spam, that ANet just needs time to figure out good ways to solve the problem, or it may never get a "fix" since ANet does not see a problem. I know I certainly have a bit of trouble waiting patiently when ANet has not even said that they see a problem, or that the problem is being addressed. Atleast, for instance, I know new content is coming with chapter 2, so I don't find difficulty in waiting for it. Even a "we are working on it" would be enough for me, but I have seen nothing but silence.

Were did this come from? Who was asking for the invinci-monk to be nerfed? One or two people perhaps, but the majority here don't care if you want to solo, so long as drops are balanced for parties.

Yeah I'm Neutral...I can care less if someone can farm or not...but since farming...or as I like to call it "hunting" (just sounds fitting ) with my characters is pointless. If I want to hunt I just play an old favorite Lineage II.

~kbealow

Back - no longer neutral. solo farming is great. easy money fairly quickly when you get good build and find the right spot - got great armour now and some pretty helpful runes - back to mission to kick some Musraat butt (hopefully )

Im not quite sure of the get rid of gold sinks idea (though i think it would be an improvment), but i have to pick at this.

Why would armour become unnatainable, you would as a new player be able to make more money, theoreticly.

Armour and salvage kits remain at fixed prices, materials could go up. So youll just get more money for the items you salvage, possibly?

And collector items are extremely easy to attain, without even solo farming.


and just another nitpick, there is no collectors axe 15>50, maybe a green one but i dont know about that.

You are correct, armor could be attained by salvaging items. The point I was trying to make was that, if gold sinks are removed, gold is going to drop in value very, very quickly. Gold would flood the economy, and soon everyone would have 1000p in the bank. But since everyone has so much gold, items would cost more. The people who sold the items then have even more gold, and they pay more for things, and so on.

Now, imagine a new player joining the game. The first thing he finds out is that any gold perfect weapon will cost upwards of 500k. He, of course, has 0 in his storage, and maybe 1p on him, as he just got out of pre searing. Now, he does not need perfect weapons yet (or ever for that matter) but how is he to get 500k? He would have to farm. So he has to do exactly what we do now, he just will get less for his time.

People would buy charr carvings because they are lazy But lets assume that everyone was willing to get their own collectors items. Since gold weapons are insanely costly, all the players will use collectors items. Every player you see would have the same exact axe as you do. Everyone would use the same bow. The new player would find that, every time he made a chunk of cash, the inflation had drivin prices up by another 500k. He could never get that gold weapon he wants, unless he finds it. No one would be even close to unique, unless they were filthy rich or happend to get lucky with a gold drop (15 over 50 crystalline sword anyone?)

Gold sinks cannot be removed unless you also remove gold. I have never played diablo II, but I have heard that gold is worthless there, that the only thing worth having is some skill item. I'd rather have to farm than deal with an economy like that.

Gold sinks as 2000p armor are stupid (partially because you don't keep buying them). Gold sinks as keys, dyes, and novelty items like dwarven ale, are good, and help the economy control inflation. Dyes also promote different looks, something that helps greatly towards making yourself look unique.

TWO WHOLE WEEKS?

A WHOLE MONTH?

get real. they are working on chapter 2, observer mode, the auction house (or equivalent) and you expect them to completely rebalance the loot? AND IN A FEW WEEKS?

think of faction from first implementation to when it was finished and multiple that by 100 to get the loot straight.

maybe by chapter 2 IF we are lucky.

in the meantime i am still having fun (even if poor)

Hey, some good posts in this thread. I was expecting this to be yet another long yes-no-yes-no debate about farming and about Fissure armour being too expensive etc. But the points being made here about the need for gold sinks is valid. And so the problem is a lot clearer to me.

1. For gold to retain it's value (keeping inflation down, which is more or less the same), the game needs gold sinks. But gold sinks need to be somewhat attractive (nice armour, dies, scrolls etc.) if they are to be any use.

2. The prices of gold sink stuff needs to be high enough to absorb the money put into the economy by all players, including big spenders. So, the amount of gold gotten by some players (e.g. solo-farmers or Ebay gold-buyers) does affect other players interested in the gold sink stuff indirectly.

3. The greater the difference in the amounts of gold gotten by players with the same amount of time spend in the game, the harder it is for the gold sinks to do what they are supposed to do and/or the poorer players to make use of the gold sink stuff.

For example, I don't like to farm a lot (especially not solo). So I have problems gettting enough money for a superior vigour rune and the 15K armour I would like. This is not a major problem for me, but it is a pitty. Others do like solo-farming (or buying gold with dollars) and so they find getting these itemsn easy and after they got their fissure armour, they have nothing to spend their gold on except bidding high on perfect weapons (driving prices up for me as well). I am afraid that in chapter 2, this problem will persist.

Solutions: Make the amounts of gold for time spend in the game more similar for different activities. Anet could:
- Make drops less frequent for parties with fewer members (not not by 12.5% per players less than 8, as solo-farmers go slower than full parties, but maybe by 10%, so that a solo farmer still has 3 times the drops of a member of a party of 8, but not 8 times that).
- Add more gold rewards for quests
- Put in some gold reward for pvp other than just the sigils for the top players in HoH (say, a small "token of Balthassar" worth 1K with the merchant drops for a random player after maybe winning 10 conseq. victories in teams and comp. arena. And something similar for GvG), so even players that play pvp more can put money into gold-sinks.
- Weed out the commercial farming selling diseasse somehow.

This would make the income of gold per player more equal, I think, making having to put gold sinks that most players cannot afford less important.

Amen!

i think solo farming should be allowed.... well GW gave each class a different set of skills, if someone got creative and came out with a terrific build for a certain class, why should it be unfair?

besides, solo farming takes up alot of time.... if someone actually has the paitence to do it, why not?

also, making an invicimonk requires alot of money... it cost a tone of cash for the runes... if someone actually went to spend that money to make one, why should it be unfair?

after spending all that cash, u expect someone to lose all the money that they spent just because someone thinks its unfair and it becomes nerfed?

i agree that solo farming in UW should not be allowed... because the point of UW is to work together as a team, so its not really fair to the others when they cant find a monk to do UW

well what i'm saying is that invincimonk should be allowed but they should not allow them to solo in UW

My opinion:

Why solo monks ROCK:

Solo monks are a great part of the game. Im sick of this shit about not finding a monk for your party, and ive played since the early days of the game and if anything its easier. If anything its now easier to find a monk because so many people have created monks. Think about it, how many of the current monks would even think about building a monk without being able to make sweet cash? IMO there wouldnt be half the monks there are now. Its pushed an unwanted undesirable class into somethin many many people want and have. If someone creates a monk to solo with, it doesnt affect anyone else because otherwise he most likely wouldnt have a monk. And everyone gets bored sometimes and goes and plays in a party: decision SOLO UW ROCKS

Reason 2: If you get rid of UW farming expect many more people to leave the game. And trust me ALOT of people already have. Even after it was made slightly difficult to farm, people left in droves. Before the few "certain" updates, this game was full of life and people. On any given day, you would ahve to periodically wait to get into LA district 1. There were super guilds with 85+ people. All of this is now gone because of updates. If UW farming is removed completely, expect 90% of the farming monks to quit the game. And i estimate 40% of the rest of the people will also quit because of the inactivity of the game (although there should be a rush of newbs after today).

Reason 3: Newbs. No not noobs, but new players. If you take away this farming, only the veterans will have the great equipment and fissure armor that isnt very difficult to attain ATM. The rich would become richer, and the poor newbs would just stay poor. The wave of new players i expect after christmas should be presented the same oppurtunities to make money that we have had, or the will become frustrated and many will quit.

Reason 4: Its not nesaccary at all to even PvE in this game to become skilled at PvP. The main purpose of farming is to get new good looking armor and goodlooking weapons. Perfect items, shields, weapons etc. are readily available from collectors, crafters, and PvP characters. Cosmetic upgrades were intentionally placed to have something for grinders to work for.

Reason 5: Why do you care if people farm UW? What do you have against it? Do you ahve some weird thing agaisnt it? Will it ever effect your gameplay when you have a group in UW?

Reason 6: It has made getting fissure armor MUCH easier. The actual price in gold has increased, but its much easier to achieve the gold and ecto. Before the solo monk explosion, seeing someone in fissure armor was almost unheard of. If your bitching about not being able to get it, well its much easier. Theres many more ecto floating around, you can sell things for more because people have more money. Since the UW monk, fissure armor has dropped much more in the status icon it once had, and is now an achievable goal for many.

In the current state of the game I am for solo farming.

However, this is supposed to be a cooperative game, players should be better off in a group of 8 working together. As has been said, the drop rates need to be increased when in a party, so if they are 8 people, the drop rate should be 8x or more what it would be when soloing.

The next thing that needs to be done is that places like UW and SF have a requirement that there are 8 people in your party.

If this cant be done. There need to be dungeons that are very hard with very good rewards, rewards that are better than almost anything people can solo farm.

im still able to solo trap UW....just takes a bit longer.

I'm just starting to get really serious about solo-farming. I've done about as many SF 5 man runs as I can handle until next year (raking in about a quarter mil in the process) but now I've set my sights on those elusive sup vigor/sorb runes. Sure I could keep farming cash to buy them...but it's the principle of the thing for me. I'm simply sick of seeing other people rewarded for my efforts. In over 800 hours of play I've never had a sup rune drop worth more than 2K, meaning I've never seen a sup vig or sorb rune in my GW life. Thank God for that ONE black dye drop - it really makes up for my otherwise horrible luck. Every time someone in my party gets a gold armor drop and then starts going "OMG OMG SUP VIGOR" I just sigh and renew my wish for a friendly fire option. I mean really, in a game that isn't supposed to be about grind, I doubt I'll finish my characters with the sup vigs and sorbs they need before 2007. I don't see why they can't just up the drop rate - it would solve every problem conceivable. Whatever...ok, enough ranting.

Um...well, actually that pretty much sums up my arguement for why solo farming shouldn't just be allowable and encouraged, but under the current system is an absolute necessity. My luck isn't good enough to farm in a group - the only way I know I'm not wasting my time farming is when I go only with me, myself, and I.

-Jessyi

I agree with solo farming. I played through the entire game on my first character without rushing, got a feel for the game and learned about the game. I started solo farming because once I had finished the game using collectors items and droknars armor, I wanted to have a shot at getting some of those rare items that I obviously couldn't afford at the time. I probably had about 20k after playing through the game without farming at all. I have about 800k now after three months of having a capable solo farmer although it's not all I do in the game.

For people aspiring for the best weapons, and fissure armor, obviously they will need to farm, and solo farming is the quickest. If people don't care about any of that stuff then there's no need to solo farm. Either way, I don't have a problem with people who do it.

It's a lot more satisfying knowing that all of your wealth and expertise were achieved through your ability alone. At the very least, a good portion of it.

Quite frankly there isn't much to do after you finish the main story. UW and FoW? You'll get a solo monk who will just let the rest of the group die in UW while they farm, and in FoW you'll get at least one person who wants to use the book trick or they'll quit. PvP? CA gets boring after a while when you constantly lose and really you're not learning all that much. TA? Pretty much the same as CA. Tombs? Sorry, every American district is IWAY and I refuse to run it even if I was r6+. International districts have some diversity, but there I need to be r9+. And if you ever find a group you'll get booted when you say you don't have Vent or TS.

The only way I can play the game in an enjoyable method is through solo farming. No 'experts' to coach everyone, no leeroys, no err=7 ruining the time and effort that was put into making the group. Just... you. The sum culmination of everything you have learned put to a test. How well do you know the game, what skills will allow you to tackle what lies ahead. Are you able to take what knowledge you have and apply it in such a manner that allows you to triumph through impossible odds. At least that's how I see it; not the pursuit of profit but the desire to challenge oneself.

Solo monks bug me, but not as much as before. The fact that they've been able to adapt to the various changes that Anet has thrown at them shows that they're here to stay. Those who dropped their monks when Protective Bond was nerfed however are the type that I loathe. Rather than seek an alternative, they whined and quit. There was virtually no skill involved before, and now the challenge has been put back into those areas. Those who have been able to overcome the adversity deserve the rewards.

I'm for solo farming, don't see any harm in it.

The way I look at most everything in a game is Challenge Rating. Is it easy to solo a high level area effectively and repeatedly? No, not really. Maybe for a 55 Monk, to a point, but even then it's not too easy. It takes careful planing, good skill selection, patience, and quick thinking. At the very least, it'll teach the person how to think on their feet, react to unexpected problems, should things go horribly wrong. That, and it's pretty fun getting a drop from practically every enemy.

Only downside I see is that it gets a little lonely... which is why everyone should bring a pet

The problem is you don't have an alternative other than to solo farm if you really want anything better than droks armour/collecters weapons.

1. I think solo farming should be allowed as is, and no skills or character attributes or weapons should be nerfed.

2. But ANet should modify the game programming to adjust the drop rates in the area to the size of the group entering the area. Dropouts from the group would continue to absorb drops to prevent exploits. This would be a difficult programming task but would put players in groups on an equal footing with solo farmers for obtaining loot.

Right now new players and casual players are at a serious disadvantage. I am now leveling up my fourth character, a monk, who is now level 12. The entire post-searing period has occurred with the Wintersday patch active. So far I have found one (1) candy shard. I have found no usable weapon, nothing worthwhile, I'm financing and supplying my new character from my three fully leveled up characters.

Truly, the drops for new players just starting out with their first character really stink! They stink profoundly bad! If I were a new player I would be completely discouraged and go elsewhere, to tell you the truth.

What is the new player to conclude that got this game for Christmas? They will conclude that they are condemned to live in poverty until they can get to level 20 and farm for themselves, assuming they really want to do that. Only a small percentage of new players want to go to that much effort.

If the game continues to be a realm of poverty for new players and casual players, game sales will eventually drop off. ANet must adjust the drop rates on the fly to put players in groups on an equal reward footing with solo farmers or GW will eventually become extinct.

Yeah ok. However, I have played since release.. and that's how it was then as well. It was major grind getting your first character through the game. The drops were always scarce. The gold was always scarce.

I dunno.. that's just how I see it.....

You are right that there are alot more monks, but i've also found that some just don't know how to play normally as their monk, I am a monk myself i have never turned him in to a 55build and probably never will. I have joined a few groups thinking oh good we have 2 monks, only to get out in the mission to relise that i am having to single handed heal everyone, it can make parts pretty hard and taking a henchie would have been 100% than some monk that just sits bad wanding the enemy.

I'd like to have numbers in the health bars while i'm a monk, one i can tell which healing is needed if i know max health and roughly how much has gone so i don't over heal and i'd be able to see a 55 build as soon as they were in the party.

Back on topic: I'm all for solo farming i have a warrior for it, he funds my other 3 characters in the game although as i'm not one to buy all the popular skins because i like looking different and i don't like any 15k armours at the moment.

I started solo farming early in the game when I needed (well, wanted) to buy perfect weapons and FOW armor.

But even after I got all the stuff I wanted, I kept coming back to it. My friends online kidded me about it (in a good natured way). And I finally realized that I just flat enjoy doing it.

Besides, Anet seems to want us to solo farm. Otherwise, why add in elements such as the IDS and candy canes. The folks at Anet seem smart and it would be hard to convince me - when they add items like this - that they don't understand that people will farm for them. I mean why wouldn't you?

I've learned a lot about the various skills and builds by farming. Look at IDS as just a single example. W/me is the best build (or so I think) for that particular task. So I learned new mesmer skills and had fun. For hydras and griffons I still like w/mo (others do a great job with other builds for these two and that's just the point, it's fun to change things around rather than to play the same way every day). If you think about it, that's a good way to keep the game fresh while we wait for Chapter 2.

1. I'm for and against farming at the same time.

2. The reason i farn and most ppl farm is to get drops / gold more frequently. You have better odds than with a team, all the drops are yours. I find it much more boring though. I enjoy playing with teams much more.

3. So why not this? What if ANET increased the drops and made them better with more ppl on the team? Lets say the more ppl on a team, the more gold drops? Then, when soloing less drops. You wouls have to have luck Then again, you would just have teams of farmers. I guess farming would always be around, but at least this would help promote team play.

4. As another post stated WAY at the beginning, i also like the idea of making the enemy's much harder. It would take much more time to kill them, but if ANET could guarentee better drops, that could help.