"Kick System" Proposal

My suggestion would be:
Every1 meets in a mission outpost
There should be an option that a party/group/team has the option to enable/disable the option to vote for a kick.
The groups which have this enabled, the leader of this team should have a Red person with 7 instead of blue with 7( Just like now, but then change the blue color to red if the kick option is enabled..)

WHen the mission starts and at some point, people want to get rid of 1 guy.
Some1 ask for a kick query(any1 at all) and the majority(keep this @ 80%?)has to say yes before the guy gets kicked.

The guy who is getting kicked, should return to the outpost where he left, and get the screen u now normally get after a mission with''Accept items'' etc...

And about abuse?Why would u kick a random player? You wont get the drops, and you're losing 1 team8..

You enter with 4 friends and 1 non-friend UW. After he has paid and you guys entered, you kick him. This would be the only thing I could think off.

This is a bad idea I think, as it would just be that players who are not good enough, would be kicked as there might be a better player coming.

I like the original idea of the OP + the 5 minutes waiting.

/signed

Im a pretty tolarent player.
Ill play with a PUG through name calling, afk, poor group support etc. But even for me..there comes a point.

Sometime, teammates want to grief. There needs to be consequences to this form of action.

So many people have made new posts suggesting the kick proposal. Still none have been as elegant as this one.

Yes! Please for the love of christ implement the kick button!!!


Seriously I can see the problems and unfair situations that would occasionally arise from the kick button, but if implemented right I think it would be entirely worth it.

Personally I think anyone should be able to suggest a kick - so yes the leader can be kicked - but that EVERYONE else in the party has to agree. The only place this might not occur is in FoW and UW simply because of the payment required to enter the area.

With simple majority votes people would be kicked more freely and more regularly, and they might even be kicked for simply not being a great player. This however does not seem to be a great reason for kicking a person, but if everyone had to vote to kick them it would be very rare and difficult to actually successfully kick a player from the team.

However it is not often that you would NEED to kick a player from the team - but when you do NEED to you REALLY need to.

Personally I'm a runner in the game and I regularly run people from Beacon's Perch to Snake's Dance only to find that certain people refuse to pay the agreed upon amount and some have even sabotaged the run from that point by continually zoning us back to Deldirimor Bowl and not allowing me to continue the run. People regularly do this, and im sure many players have gotten to droks with all 4 characters in this way. The fact is there is little to nothign a runner can do about it, but with the implementation of a kick button there would very shortly be no one left who tries to get away with this scam.

Also I have finished god knows how many missions in this game for selfish leachers - even titan source the other day had an afker who managed to 'finish' the last mission of the game without even being at his keyboard the whole time. Had we the option the entire party would most definitely have voted to kick that guy.

Finally the worst situation I've had was at the end of frost gate where one player was holding a quest item and got pissed off with someone in the group so he decided at the very end of the mission to go afk - leaving us all high and dry and unable to finish the mission ourselves.

These kind of situations would easily be resolved with any sort of kick feature. If they made it that anyone (including leaders) can be kicked then people could no longer make themselves a group and then go afk while their group does the mission for them - and if they made it that the entire party has to vote against them it would be incredibly rare for people to be unfairly kicked (and yes with the collect items feature previously discussed it would also make it useless for the team to kick a player unless that player is completely afk or causing severe hindrance to the team by sabotaging missions)

I severely hope they implement this feature because it is a seriously needed feature in this game.

What if the leader is the one who you wanna kick?

No real reason?... here is a great reason. 7 of us are paying for a run (which you probably don't like either but too bad)... all but 1 wants to pay. 1 person screwed 6 + the runner because of non payment and the runner leaves all behind for 1 jerk freeloading. (Note to Runner: Check peoples money after you zone & before you start your run. It will eliminate a few headaches, but not all mind you.)

Another good reason is in the Desert mission say... when all need to stay togther and fight the incomming. You say "Stay together no matter what". Was does some idiot always do? He runs after some fleeing enemy and winds up getting everyone killed because of it.

There are many reasons to punt someone. I only wish they implement the feature.

Kicking is confrontational. It disadvantages one person and all the others are free; I think that Ix Chel's ancient suggestion of instance splitting handles it much better.

Oh I can think of some "evil" reasons, like for instance

find special place, enemy or boss-"thanks for bringing the group to this hard to get to Boss, we dont want to risk loosing his possible drop with you, KICK" (kicking the members before killing the boss)

5 guildies 3 random ppl, no need for 5 men farming team. sweep towards the designated bosses, targets with a full 8 man party, and then kick the random ones to get that special (normal)farming team digit. 5 vs 3?


the split idea, is a good idea, i like that one that one, i would like to see the kicked (or dissconected) characters replaced with its primary proffesions hireling.

Instance splitting sounds like a great idea, but it has one major problem with it: it's much harder to impliment.

Imagine programming it so that any instance can be recreated with all the variations it may have, resolving any quest conflicts the PCs may have (for instance if the people who split off don't have the quest they were all working on) in the process. Then you have to impliment a new GUI that's eligant and easy to handle and allows you to bring only who you want and only if they want to come. Then you have to resolve the fact that a group may want to split 3 or even 4 ways in this manner. And let's not forget, you have to program it in such a way that this can be done with any area. Depending on how ANets structured the game, they may have to actually program each area 1 by 1.

And in the end, the effect that you achieved by doing all this work is nothing more than a simple convenience for the players.

The kick system, while not as elegant, is a lot easier for ANet to put in.

The idea of a kick system is a threat to my play style. I like harassing people in GW... You guys are just trying to ruin the fun aspect for a lot of players here. And the game is about skill over time played... Maybe part of the skill is going into a PvE mission and going afk because you have other things to do... I usually AFK my way through Kryta and the Wilds... Nopenopenope... Not going to ruin my gaming experience and that of many others just to make a few people slightly more content...
/notsigned

I seriously hope that was sarcasm. You like to harrass people? Try doing that in real life, see how many lawsuits it gets you. =D

As for kicking being confrontational, what's wrong with that? There is clearly a problem with a member of the group, and I am perfectly willing to confront the problem. I think the idea of splitting is only mildly useful, while, like Undivine said, being a complicated system to implement. With people who maliciously draw aggro to get the group killed, remain afk to have the mission done for them, or refuse to pay for a run, the problem is clear and has a simple solution. Trying to appease everyone is simply being a bit too politically correct.

The only problem with chozo's plan, as Roupe has mentioned, is when a group of friends want to leech off three extra people for a pay-to-enter area like UW, and then kick them afterwards. I think setting it so that everyone has to agree on the kick besides the person being kicked might solve this problem. Alternatively, the party leader can set the amount of votes needed to kick someone, and group members will simply have to be careful to only join groups that have the number they'd prefer. (The option to turn off kicking should be fine as well.)

In order to minimize the capacity for abuse, I agree that only the leader should be able to intiate kicks, and having a cooldown time between each proposal. Like chozo said, usually when a party leader is going to be problematic, you can tell before the group sets off. If the leader does pose to be a problem, then I suppose the group's simply out of luck.

Alternatively, I suppose each group member could have only a certain number of kick proposals - say, one or two. This would make people think their kick proposals through, and give some leverage on the leader as well. In most cases, only one kick should be needed through a mission, so limiting the amount of kicks available may be good.

/signed

AFKers can kill a group.

If the rest of the party dies and hes the only one left... everyone has to leave. Thats a pain in the ass if you're in the middle of a long quest.

Also good if you're tired of seeing drops for them and having to split gold with someone who isnt contributing.

Great idea, would love to see it put into the game considering I have had experiences like the ones above.

I went afk in math class the other day to harass someone across the hall. No consequences as of yet.

This feature is desperately needed.

/signed

What happens when players want to kick the LEADER? Yeah, I've been in groups where I wanted the leaders butt kicked, how's your little kick system going to work then??

[That's the privilege of being the leader; you can't be kicked (which is the same as in outposts). A lot of times, though, if a leader is going to be a poor player, you can tell when he/she is forming the group. Just don't join them.]

That's so lame when otherwise your suggestions were solid. Here you "protect the leader", wrong, bad bad bad idea/suggestion. If everyone can't be kicked then no one should be kicked. Better go sit back down and redo your thinking for kicking the leader.

[You who argue against this, I cannot understand for the life of me how you can dispute this feature. The first time I needed this feature I was shocked - shocked to find that it wasn't there. It's something I just assumed would be there. There is an option like this in every multiplayer game I've ever played before this one. In many cases it wasn't even based on votes; just the leader's choice, and it still worked out fine.]

And what you are leaving out about every other mmorpg is that the kickee "remains" in the zone when they are kicked, you don't go mysteriously teleoporting back to oz. Even instanced missions like LDON of EQ, if you kicked someone during the mission, they could remain in the zone or zone out or gate of "their" choice after the kicking. This system suggestion here does not allow the player to remain in the zone. That should be their option if they are kicked. And if there is a voting system then the leader should be just as much a part of being able to be kicked as any other player. People can conive forming a group and then become an A$$ during the mission. I know I've been in them and no way to expulse the leader, therefore my only option was to punish the "entire" group because of the leaders (most often mouth). That's just the way it works for some of us, I'm not going to spend my entertainment time listening or reading rather text from an IGMO, leader or otherwise. So, unless ANET can come up with a way to kick anyone and everyone, this should remain as it is now, either live with it or leave it, as it is now, I just leave the group and find another.

/signed -very signed

Better watch out. You've incurred the wrath of the math gods.

Then again, Guild Wars isn't every other mmoprg. While it might be nice to let the kicked person get his own instance, it's not that much of an issue, since you can get to pretty much anywhere quickly from a town, and you can go between towns instantaneously.

As for kicking the leader, yes, that sometimes is necessary. I can think of the examples of UW runs where the leader is a solo monk planning on ditching the rest of the group, for example. I suppose you could just let everyone propose a kick, as long as the amount of proposals are limited by time or by number.

Spamming kick suggestions might be annoying - In fact, in order to limit the use of the system in itself, a change to the proposal could be that if the vote goes against the kick, the leader is kicked instead. This will mean that the party leader will only suggest a kick when he is sure to win it.

I would still have misgivings about a kick system though - But I agree that it is probably needed.

Heh I like that idea Xanthar, if the kick goes against in favor of the leaders proposal he/she is kicked. lol That'll teach them.

No really though in all fairness anyone can and should be able to suggest a kick, if the proposal is shot down, then they should just leave because they will usually remain unhappy and frustrated and for a game and entertainment that shouldn't remain so. Also 5 minutes between kick ability it a little too fast, make it 10, by then maybe everyone has cooled down. Or dead because the person brought up for kicking is mad and just aggros tons of mobs on the group.

clearly you've never been in one of those quests [villany of galrath]
that take ages! and your team dies right at the end and the only person with rezz is afk.

or in thunderhead keep, the person with the dwarf always seems to go afk, before dwarf can open the gate, so the team must all quit and restart!


i say yes in support of the kick system!
and agree things need to be in place to justify a kick.

Scammers, I'd love to be able to kick scammers from my groups.

"Kicking" should be done by the party leader only, like if you are in a town. Voting makes no sense, since noobs have friends too It opens some serious griefing possibilities, but when a kicked player gets the option to reclaim all to him/her assigned items, I see no problem here.
Be a good sport, mark the kicker on your ignore list and form your own team. It is a little inconvenient in the first few minutes, but pays off in the long run. People will acknowledge the kick feature and form parties more careful.
Dungeon Siege has that ability, and mostly only gets abused in pvp. It is very annoying, but gaming together with a jerk is much more annoying.

Hmm...maybe towards the finishing end of a long quest, the leader decides to kick out a member just for the fun of it :P (unfortunately these people do exist)

I guess you cant avoid griefing no matter what you do. But maybe, just maybe, this kicking system will reduce the amount of inconvenience that we currently facing.

Maybe limit the number of kicks to just one per mission? And make the requirement that all other members must vote to agree the kicking?

If you happen to have that many griefers (that needed to be kicked out or have voted to kick you), I guess its just too bad.

Because there IS an area open for abuse..say a drop comes up a GOOD ONE and you are your friends are in a group and it is assigned to me...YOU KICK me so you can get the item...

Have you ever had that screen, where you can choose to claim the items that were assigned to you, after a mission was finished? That same thing should appear when you are kicked, so nobody can claim the items assigned to you, when you are kicked. It is easy as that.

i say yes, for runners if som1 isn't paying etc

I want to go through an entire mission with henchies, kick them all, then run back and pick up all the gold drops so it doesn't share it with any of them. Wouldn't that be neat?!

Seriously I do, but that'd be cheating...

I think the system should have a supermajority requirement. Kicking players is kinda unsportsmanlike even if you don't like them, and should only be reserved for the MOST annoying.

So I think it should require unanimous support (except the one being kicked of course). Yes, it'll create problems when you have 2 buddies going together or just 2 different morons, but it'll make absolutely sure that anyone who IS being kicked is indeed SO bad that EVERY single member of the team wants them gone. I think this would be a fair compromise between what we have now (no kicking at all) and a solution which people would worry could lead to abuse by a majority gang-up or a less serious annoyance such as inexperiencd play, not real griefing.

Ah! Good one. I didn't think this system could be abused, but you got a point.

Still I think the ability to kick someone must be in there in some form. Can't the drops distribute based on the names in the party window, both red and grey?

henchies just make the drops not to appear

Uh if you have a group of full henchies... You get all the drops anyways.. XD

Since when did you see.

Avicra dropped 5 feathers, Which your party reserves for Little Thom

I really like this idea. I support it completely.

I think its a good idea personally, You have a well constructed idea for it. There is a lot of times when i am in a group with an afker (this idea would stop free-riders) or people who just keep messing up the group..Like dragging in extra monsters, pinging the map or drawing stupid things on it...exc.

The only thing is what if the leader of the group was the offender? I think that anyone in the group should be able to start it, sometimes the leader in my group is who is causing some of the problems.

Anyhow, I do think this is a good idea, Mainly beacuse of free-riders, and i hate doing someone elses missions/quests for them.

This is a feature that should have been put in a long time ago. It lets you take the advantage away from afkers, bots, 55 monks that join fissure groups, non-paying runnees, etc.

As long as the kicked player's items do not become public access, then the ability for this to be greif driven is much reduced.

Regarding 7 guildies and 1 non... how long would it take for word to get out that guild [X] does this? Just like in WoW, there will be known "bad apple" guilds; but that's not a huge disadvantage since the worst they could do to a player was take away a quest completion or Darkness drop - IF they can do it without the dropped player's abilities.

Leave the ability to initiate the kick with the group leader. This prevents vote spamming by a griefer to hide themselves. It also keeps the notion of "can only kick inactive for 5 mins" kind of logic form being in the system. As soon as you put something like that in, the botters will make sure their bots never go inactive for more then 5 mins (and so on). Leaders already have the option to kick in town - just extend that to missions, but make sure the group has input so the leader can't be a greifer on their own.

Yanman.be, Nevin, you both should read a little more carefully. What PieXags says is a potential exploit. Henchies prevent item drops from ever happening, but they still allow the gold to drop. Splitting the gold occurs at the point when you pick it up, and if you kicked your henchies by that point, it only splits it 1 way - you.

Does my post make sense now?

Woops, thought he was refering to Gold Items.

Extreamly simple solution
1) henchies cannot be kicked
2) henchies also take part of all the gold drops with them when they are kicked

eather will work
took me a grand total of aprox 12 seconds to think of them...

Heheh, just had to point out what could potentially be an exploit. If nobody did we wouldn't have a complete kick system being discussed here.

The kick system that is proposed here will be heavily abused and will actually make me fear when grouping. Here are just several reasons as to how the suggested system could be abused:

1. During an SF farm or the Tombs farm, you use a full group to get to the bosses- once you get to them, a full team is not needed for the kill. The leader kicks you- more green weapons for them.

2. Just as there are jerks who aggro for no reason, abandon the group, and endlessly curse, there will be jerks who kick for no reason.

3. When entering the Underworld, or FOW, after paying the fee, the leader kicks you.

4. Everyone is new to the game at the beggining. Newbs will be kicked because the are not good enough.

I would, however, like to see this kick system under these rules:

1. Anyone who has been afk for over five minutes can be kicked.

2. Anyone who is far off from the rest of the team (say off the compass of everone else) can be kicked.

3. The game can detect curse words- anyone who curses too much can be kicked. I would at least like to see an option to completly ignore someone, no matter which channel they are using.

This will allow to remove the players that need to be removed, without leaving room for abuse.