"Kick System" Proposal

What if the chances of getting drops stays the same even if you kick someone? It would be the same as previously, but minus the offending player. It may stink for the loot/drop chances to remain the same, but I'd prefer that to keeping someone who is AFK/bad-mouthing/leeching. Also, it would discourage players from ABUSING the option (kicking others to get better loot/drops/greens).I strongly agree wtih 1. There's just no reason those players should not be kicked. As for 2, I think #1 would probably take care of that.

It should also be a vote-based system. Majority decides, not the leader.

Anyway, there's my 2 cents on the matter.

Honestly i believe that the implementation of such an option would cut down the number of griefers and assholes in the GW player base. With any system there is the possibiltiy of abuse, and all the arguments i read about this can be categorized...

1. Jerk Leader
2. Jerk Guild
3. Drop abuse
4. Support of elitism

The benefits of such a system as said before will VASTLY OVERSHADOW the problems above, simply because these problems can be eliminated with simple rules. Many of these are the same rules regurgitated.

1. Any player may initiate a vote to kick another player. (counters jerk leader)
2. A vote may not be cancelled.
3. 80% majority vote of remaining party members required to kick. Comes to these party sizes and vote requirements: 2: system cannot be applied. 4: Other 2 party members must vote unanimously. 6: 3 of 4 other party members must vote in favor. 8: 5 of 6 other party members must vote in favor.
4. Regardless of whether the vote succeeds or not, another vote cannot be placed for 10 minutes.
5. Kicked player is returned to previous outpost, and has the chance to reclaim reserved items via the "Claim items" window, like after a mission.
6. Drop rate and gold distribution are unchanged. Drops that would have been for the kicked player simply dont happen, as if the player was a hench.
7. Kicked player will NOT be replaced by a hench.
8. (counter jerk guild, see below)

**In cases where the majority of a party is a guild, that guild's Karma rating is displayed in the party window before you join. The name of the party leader is replaced by the guild name and karma rating.

Guilds loose Karma when they unanimously vote to kick a non-guild member from a party, or when the majority of the vote is from the same guild. Guilds karma rating only increases if the guild has not kicked a non-guild party member from a party in the afore mentioned manner for 1 month time.

You can check the guild's karma rating before you join the party at an outpost. Furthermore, when the party changes such that majority is in control of a single guild, the party members window displays the guild's karma. When the party is in control of a guild, members may leave while the mission countdown is going. Countdown stops if a player leaves.**

9. A vote cannot be placed when there is a primary mission or quest goal within radar range. (you cant kick some random person when youre about to finish the mission or quest)
9b. However, a vote can be placed anytime when the majority of the party is dead, and while majority of the party is dead the time delay does not apply. 80% majority. (kick an afker so you can rez or restart the mission)

10. A player kicked from Underworld or Fissure of Woe is given 125 gold. (You really have to think about this one to see that it cant be abused. if one player pays everyone's entrance fee, then he will loose the 125 gold if a player is kicked, but if everyone paid, then theres no problem.)

11. A player cannot be kicked out of a competative mission (pvp).
11b. A player may be kicked out of a factions competative mission (leech killer).


/signed when all the rules are addressed.

I would love this feature, but only if anyone could initiate the kick. If it was only up to the leader to kick then you would have people only wanting to be leader.

Would be nice to have that player replaced with a henchie, but we all know that even down one player most missions/areas can be done.

I also like the first loot solution too, that way people wouldn't be being kicked because they got the ecto drop or whatever it is this week.

Im always for a good oldfashioned KICK. Im tired of liberal teenager kids with "rights".

eh I'd be against it cause pretty much any time you'd have to kick someone, you'd have to go back to town. In hard missions 7 people is very crippling, 6 totally destructive. I say take the leader position and be a good leader, deal with the little twerps If problems start arising early on, go back to town.

/not signed for the 200th time.

Unnecessary and far too open to abuse.

***support***

If you don't get along with humans, use henchmen or heroes. This problem can be easily solved and it wouldn't change the game play one bit.
/notsigned


Also, what if your party agrees to kick somebody if a good item dropped before they had time to pick it up and then they would split the gold?
What if somebody went away from his/her keyboard to answer the telephone and the group decided to kick him?
What if somebody was angry at another party member so he decided to kick a much needed party member who was innocent?

(= I could come up with at least 50 more questions that you couldn't solve with a better answer than "Make it a majority rules."

The solution to drops for a person would be to have that item go w/ that person, when kicked, in the form of a "claim items dialog".

The solution to spamming kick requests would be to put it on a timer.

If you are going AFK and NOT telling anyone, then you deserve to be kicked. A simple "afk door" is all that's needed.

A kick function would require *at least* a majority vote. This stops someone from being kicked on a whim, or by accident.

The only other suggestion I would like to add would be a kick-penalty - if you keep suggesting to kick people, and are voted down, then your ability to suggest a teammate get kicked should be temporarily revoked.

This sounds good.
There is not even a "what if questions" to the solution above, but..

10 wont be needed.
Since there can be made a modification to the pay method of entering UW/FoW.

Every player entering FoW/UW will automatically get charged for (1000g/amount of players in the party) upon entering.
The code for this is already in the game. I think the Norn's name is something like Longfinger.


I really hate it when someone goes afk in the middle of a mission and never comes back.
Last time it happened for a party I was in, it was someone saying "I need to go and sleep now, bye"

/signed


To those posting against this...
WoW has a kick system very much like this but there is no vote option, and it is not being wildly abused.
Yes newbies are kicked, but only because they got the same thing told 10 times in a row from the party leader, and still don't want to listen.
Of course there are bad leaders as well, but they get well known.
About the loot concerns, do that more then once and the whole realm knows your name. It starts with yelling in the main towns all the way to posts on the forums. Pretty effective way to keep things straight if you ask me.
Just ask the WoW players about their kick system.
You will find very few that would say it's bad. Those who will are those that you would kick yourself.

I can see this being ripe for abuse. Who cares if it worked in WoW. WoW is not GW and vice versa. Already the report system is being abused in subtle and not so subtle ways. Anyway the game already has a system in place to help deal with these sort of jerks in mission. All you do is lead a mob right back into them and let them die and then don't res. Tada problem solved. I've done it before when I've been helping people with a mission and someone starts bad mouthing other members or is just abusive I'll get the rest of the party to run close, go aggro a group and then break at the offending player, constantly kiting to keep them between us and the mob until they die, then no res.

Even with the rules people have suggested it would be abused badly and even if you kick them you solve nothing. You are still a man short and might as well resign and try again if it is a key party member. In competitive missions you can always report,of course like I said that feature is being abused all to hell too. I've actually had people offer me items and gold in game to file a false report so that their guild could win a GvG match. The idea was to get the key players banned and force the other team to sub in. It sounds overly convoluted and more than a little lame but I don't doubt that false reports happen for unsportsmanlike reasons and via manipulation of the checks and balances set in place to prevent the abuse of the system. what makes you think a kick system will be any different?

Here is a better idea why not just make this a solo game outright. I mean if you institute this system people will too scared or annoyed to play with one another. I can see it now. Isolated cases of abuse pop up. The forums start firing up. The rumor mill begins to grind and soon other threads reporting abuse pop up, whether valid or not. the stage is set. People start reading the horror stories of jerk off leaders going ape shit mid mission, or of farming groups being kicked at the last minute in order for someone to get their drops when the items unassign. As for your idea of a self policing system like you mentioned in WoW where the community basically tattles on bad leaders and abusers. Have you been in a town or outpost lately? I can't count the number of times that someone has shouted SO AND SO IS A SCAMMER! I've heard it so many times and most of the time it's BS. The person in question may be a price gouger or an unrealistic newbie to the trading game but they aren't a scammer. As for forums, have you read the rules here? No names. No names in screen shots no in game names in posts. Personally I like it that way.

I know that you covered many of the points mentioned above, but you have got to realize that people will find a way around any checks and balances you make in a system. People will always abuse a system that you give them for self policing. Why do you think that we have people whose job it is to police the community in real life? It is because if it were simply up to common rule and common justice people would abuse it. It's human nature. The reports are being abused now despite the checks and balances put in place to stop that and even if it came down to a majority vote by the party on the spot all it would take is a little social engineering or alliance members in cahoots and bam instant abuse. You would also still end up with a man down and no better off than if you had just resigned and gone back to town in the first place.

Bottom line it's a bad idea. /not signed

/signed

Wanted to do this a couple of times with inmature aholes!

As much as I like to kick some players from some group. ie leecher, kamikazi wannabe, afkers, you name it there they are.

However there is no way, the system can be done that would be 100% FAIR, so to save ourself from this unnecessary drama, i think we will stick to the frustration we get from leechers and afkers for the time being.


happy days.

I believe this system would work and be much appreciated by those of us who are tired and fed up with those people who make GW a misery day in day out. Overall I enjoy playing GW, but it's these sort of people that annoy me most when I work my hardest towards a title.

As a GW veteran, I find it increasingly tiresome, when I end up in teams where the majority of us are working our hardest for a title, and yet some people believe it's ok to leach off of us n get the rewards for doing nothing. In my experience I encounter this sort of gaming in PvP the most. The current /report system in my opinion is not enough of a deterrant or punishment enough for the 'continuous leechers'.

I would also ask for some sort of 'Hall of Shame' on Guru for anyone caught leeching in PvP (so long as they are leeching and have not either:

a) lost connection from networking issues
b) said they will be afk for either phone, toilet break or something similar and will be back asap.

How the Hall of Shame would work:

First, you enter whatever PvP arena or mission.

Then:
1) take a screenshot showing your party menu, and chat interface.
2) go ahead with your mission etc
3) if you die, and you res at the shrine, take note of anyone standing around. If you spot anyone that appears to be leeching, take another screenshot and continue with the mission. Take note of the chat interface for any 'lost connection' messages or 'afk brb' and make a note of these too.
4) whenever you die or are in range of the person you believe is leeching, take another screenshot with 'said' person in the shot, and make use of the /report system and report that person for leeching. (so long as points a) and b) were not seen)

After your mission, take your first screenshot and latest, and add them to the Hall of Shame.

The Hall of Shame will be continuously updated with any found leechers. Any person found on the Hall of Shame more than 3 times, will have their title track reset for the missions they were leeching from.

So, for example, if someone is put on the Hall of Shame more than 3 times, from the same mission, i.e Jade Quarry [luxon], their Luxon title track will be reset to zero.

The way I see things, anyone who thinks they can get others to work for them and reap the rewards for doing nothing is promoting slavery. The punishment should be severe! This is a fitting punishment and I believe a just one.

''If you want a title, work for it.''

this would weaken the group as a whole, so the only reason a person would be kicked would hopefully be for a good reason. but this could be troublesome in dungeons, having people being kicked before the end chest. even though this could be useful in certain situations, it will be more often abused than used properly. so nah.

i totally support this kicking feature, as from time to time i get lazy and dont want to do any fighting but still want to socialize so i go on a run of some sort and then when u get to the pay spot 1 idiot refuses to pay and screws everyone over cuz he wont pay, if i could vote him out i would.

Too easily will be abused, I for one would be pissed if I got kicked for no good reason
/notsigned

I truly do like this idea. So many times groups have had a failure due to just 1 person, or its taken A LOT longer to get thru a dungeon because someone needs to pee, go before leaving the outpost. Frostmaw is understandable..its 5 lvls., Ooze pit is not...its 1 lvl.
For the runners out there reading this (yes i am one) It would make life so much easier. Cant get paid? kick them. They wont stay back and keep screwing things up (CoF is a wonderful example of this happening ALL THE TIME) kick them. But, I can also see a problem with this as well. Someone not formiluar with an area accidentally screws up, and gets kicked because of the mistake-not right. BUT if its happened before..well yea, get rid of them. BUT there in lies the problem...People dont have the patience to see if its going to happen again and will get rid of said player at the first mistake. A lot of people have the sence enough to stay back if unformiluar with an area, but theres always the 1 that likes to just charge right in and die.
Also, anyone in the group should have the option to initiate the kick mode, not just the leader. What if its the leader thats the jerk? Also, when it comes to drops, the kicked person should get the drop window when they get back to the outpost.

"Okay guys, we're going to go fight the boss now"
*leader decides to be a douche and propose to kick every member in turn so that a new window opens several times in each party member's UI and the party wipes from having windows in their way*

That's just what I think would happen. People like to grief, and people will grief with whatever means possible. Nice idea, but I don't think it really works for guild wars.

What if it's the leader whos leeching?

You didnt read a sht dont ya ? rules still are variable but i wont consider 5 or 6 ppl from a 8 member party voting your kick "no good reason".

Try to think the worst case scenario.

Then what about 5 people working toghether to scam others?
Go to hard mission or dungeon, one of the characters offer to run or make quests for others in HM in no time for a fee.
3 people join, enter dungeon. get to the end, let them open chest... /kick, /kick /kick...
Now the 5 scammers can share the loot.

Another one that didnt even read the FIRST page of the thread , for god sake , it has been said before . Its been suggested SO FAR ago that the loot goes away with the kicked player and he can reclaim it on the nearest town ..... and if you party with sca ...

You know what ? never mind , read the thread some more

Indeed especially since the runner would be the LEADER who would be the only person allowed to start a kick. So read first.

/agree fully with the kick option

/totallysigned

Only read the first page or so, osrry if its a repeat.

Kick system works fine in WoW, over there you don't even need a vote, leader can kick whoever, and I see no reason why it wouldn't work in GW.

"Leads to abuse" oh please I mean COME ON! there are way worse ways to abuse people than kicking them from groups, any such behaviour can be reported anyhow. Also keep in mind kicking a player hurts your team, you gain no benefit from it unless that player was a genuine burden.
Guildies making a group to kick one PuG ... I mean really, WTF? this is just stupid in in itself. Don't wanna get kicked, don't suck/beadick/afk

A kick feature will solve far more problems than it will cause.

I know this is a proposal but is there an actual petition? I mean i know most are saying /sign or /unsign as they reply but it cannot be sent to anyone in this layout.
Also most of the people who are not signing are not reading any of the post most look at the second loot distribution method of a kicked person NOT the main proposed idea which is you get an unclaimed window just like if you don't pick up all your loot from a mission. For the rest who don't like the idea there prolly the morons who would be kicked. So please read at least the very first post before you reply.

I also think this thread has to be redone since it was started a long time ago, running just meant running from town to town. Now running includes dungeons. These are now common to run and most of the time you get one freeloader who gets a free run because they decide to act like a dick.

Running a mission/dungeon or running to a location allows someone to not play the game. Sure it is 'allowed' by Anet, but it isn't part of the game design. Providing a means to make this easier is not something they need to do. If you want to run people you are taking a risk that there will be jerks who won't pay, go afk, or leave early. I am not excusing those people, but there doesn't need to be anything done about them. If you are playing with a PUG, chances are there will be at least one player who sucks and makes the quest/mission harder for the rest. Kicking someone that is new or just bad isn't fair to those who are trying, but just aren't good.

Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy for runners. I only run people in my guild or friends list because I'm not willing to put up with the jerks. Either take the loss or stop running. It is a risk you take.

/signed

We *need* this implemented. I've run across so many people who are total jerks, and friends of the team leader. I've also had situations where both the leader and the person in question are afk, and two people want to join. This is especially annoying when both are monks.

Sure, we could just reform the group, but if we had everything in order that could take a while. There's always that one person who simply doesn't get it..

/not signed!

NO! Any way that they could possibly implement something like this leaves major possibilities for abuse which only opens up more options for people to whine about.

If you find a person you don't want to play with, just don't take them next time. Live and learn; sorry that's just how it is.

/not signed

Community is not mature enough to wield that kind of power. There will be nothing but abuse and eventually after someone gets kicked for no reason they will never PUG again leading to the extinction of PUGs. Can you image battling nearly to the completion of a mission and suddenly finding yourself back in the outpost because of being kicked maliciously?

there would have to be some time limit on how soon you could kick someone. For example, if someone has already been with the group for more then 30-45 minutes, then you can't kick them.

This would be for things like TopK where people might want to bring people along to speed things up, then kick them to gain more loot for themselves. Also, what about UW or Fow? People might ask someone to bring cons, then kick them once they use the conset and rip them off. I could see lots of guilds doing this...

I keep seeing this argument stated over and over again. How can this be abused if its a majority vote? ONE person CAN NOT kick someone from the party. Majority rules. Heros cant vote and if there's only two people then the other leaves. So I say prove to me that it can be abused when its used in other games completely fine with minimal abuse. In my own honest opinion the one who deserves to be kick and is unable to be kicked is abusing the game and making it a shitty experience for everyone else. In your arguments DON'T mention that they wont get their drops because if you are intelligent enough to read then you would have see that the preferred way of drop retrieval was to get an unclaimed items window after being booted. Also if the whole team except you is in the same guild then you should know YOUR vote will most likely be overruled and it is a chance you take. Also to the person who said oh well for the people running places or through dungeons, your really ok with people scamming you? If so plz pm me so I can buy some EL tonics for 1gp.

They should of added a kick option when they first made this game, anyone who has played final fantasy 11 will know that the leader has a major role and a party plays out nicely.
On this game you can be a jerk and get away with it then have to deal with the mission with a man short.
You should be able to kick then have an option to replace them with a henchman because a henchman is more capable than a jerk any day.

my suggestion for the effects of a kick, should it be implemented.

missing players are replaced by a henchman of their profession. The players skills are not transferred, in order to prevent usage of sabotage skills

a group vote will kick a player, causing him to become missing, and thus replaced.

kicked players, stays in the challenge/mission and is now alone with npcs
since the discarded player obviously gets replacement henchmen instead of the other players.

In order to prevent scamming, players getting kicked -keeps their drops

/notsigned.

It would get abused.

Again how? I have no problem with anyone's opinion as long as they give a good and informed reason, if you can't provide any reason as to why it would be abused then your an idiot who shouldn't be posting.

Examples.

The best player in the group doesn't like you. Everyone else kicks you so he/she doesn't leave.

The majority are friends who needed an additional person to get passed a certain point in a map, now that they have, they vote kick you for a better item drop ratio.

An item drops for YOU that someone else wants. Vote kicked and now they decide who gets the drop this time.

A runner gets paid half way through a run (Droks) and threatens to leave if you are not vote kicked. Everyone kicks you so they don't lose their money and their runner. Why would a runner do this? Why would a runner scam in the first place. It happens daily and they don't often give a reason.

Those are just four examples of how a vote kick system can be abused and further destroy playing with other people. As another poster said before me, "Live and learn" don't take the player in your group again.

I didn't feel I needed to post these examples, if you are unable to see how a vote kick system could be abused, then I think its you who are the idiot. Guildwars did not add a vote kick for a reason. Its not a new concept in the gaming world and this is Not Dota. (which the vote kick is abused too.)

Recently I picked up a pug group..well really I was helping out a pug group, in the crystal desert. You know those teleporters?

Every time someone tried to put in the code, some idiot in the group would randomly hit one of the buttons, so that we couldn't teleport. And then he'd day, okay, I won't do it this time, and do it again. And again.

Eventually well all just TPed back to the city.

Another thing a guy can do, is aggro more mobs than you want to at one time. I can be a total idiot, wait till your'e all fighting and go aggro and bring back the next mob.

There are tons of ways a guy can screw you over. How about a guy who exploits corpses quickly, with something that screws over your minion master.

What you probably forget is that griefers are creative, because they have time to think up things TO annoy people. It's not incidental bad behavior, like having to go AFK. It's intentional bad behavior.

if this is Added, that Time limit should be longer. the leader could for whatever reason get mad at a player and spam the kick vote thing.

Maybe limit it to a number of votes in each area?

I LoLed at ppl posting AGAINST a system that DOESNT exist and DOESNT have strict rules of applying yet. Bad rules will turn it into a bad system and good rules into a good system. If you are stubborn and just want to see the bad side , ok ppl , but dont say there arent SO MANY good things that can come out of that system being implemented on GW.

Like thats gonna happen every day , sure. The reason is stupid ofc , but hey dude , still is ALL against you. Sht happens when you party the wrong ppl , ALWAYS.

Same as above.

Like someone said before , drop and loot goes to town with the kicked player. Fixed.

Same as the first quote , if you gamble and trust a runner and ppl you dont know .... well sht happens. Is not the "Kick System" fault .

Sure pal but the thing is that kick system will give you a chance of not being ABUSED in the first place. Preventing rox.

For any "example" of abuse there are at least 1 "example" of the vote kick system working great. 10X pros than contras.

And you know that reason right ? nah. Dont compare to other games with abuse because any1 can compare with another one in wich is not abused or at least brings more satisfaction that anger.