AI adjustment ~ SF/UW/FoW (fixing the gear/keg trick) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

30 Nov 2005 at 19:25 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Acolyte

Why are you in these forums then??!! The point of these forums is to discuss game design and identify opportunities to make the game better. You should be arguing with the administrator to get rid of these forums based on your quote.

Well - I don't know about you, but I come here to learn more about the game, get ideas from others, ponder things about the new release. I'm not really here to change the game.

Quote:

Look, you've identified you don't like the update, and that's fine. But to tell myself and others that we are in the wrong to provide feedback on enhancing or changing elements of the game in a forum that promotes this line of thinking is asinine.

...and i believe that trying to force the entire community into playing the way that you think the game should be played is just as assinine. Be honest - your argument isn't about improving the game - it's about improving the game for you. Your only real justification is because you can't find enough people who want to play this way (hint, hint), and you don't find it challenging enough playing this way. Rather than go it the hard way and create your own challenge, you want it changed to bring everyone in line with how you think it should be. Here's a news flash - people will just find another way that you may not like. That's why I say to just let people play the way they want, and roll with it. I don't think we're too far off from each other on that, at least.

Quote:

EDIT: I have played and will continue to play the game as is. My request is that the game be adjusted so that the "advanced" levels are at the very least designed to be played as an advanced player.

...in the way that you think that it should be played....

darkdragon99

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

decatur indiana

hell's mercenaries

W/E

30 Nov 2005 at 19:33 - 42

you 2 sound like parrots repeating yourselfs over and over and over it's pointless neither side is gonna give so y are you doing it

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

30 Nov 2005 at 19:51 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

you 2 sound like parrots repeating yourselfs over and over and over it's pointless neither side is gonna give so y are you doing it

because it's a slow day at work, and I have nothing better to do

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 20:01 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

because it's a slow day at work, and I have nothing better to do

/agree

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 20:02 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Well - I don't know about you, but I come here to learn more about the game, get ideas from others, ponder things about the new release. I'm not really here to change the game.

Look...the point of this forum as stated when entering the forum is "For those in the Sanitarium, a fine line seperates genius and madness. Game Suggestions"...

darkdragon99

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

decatur indiana

hell's mercenaries

W/E

30 Nov 2005 at 20:14 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Acolyte

Look...the point of this forum as stated when entering the forum is "For those in the Sanitarium, a fine line seperates genius and madness. Game Suggestions"...

yeah it's too bad i crossed that line afew miles back

i've never even been to these areas your compaining about i haven't even made it to the dessert

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 20:23 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

yeah it's too bad i crossed that line afew miles back

i've never even been to these areas your compaining about i haven't even made it to the dessert

hahahaha....they should just retitle this entire forum the great debate. I think there are a lot of people that enjoy the debate more than the topic...hahaha

You are joking about not getting past the desert, right? (PM me if you need help

) Also, I thought the saying was "there never was a genius without a tincture of madness." So I'm thinking the mention of A "line" was from the insane...hmmm....a whole new thread....

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

30 Nov 2005 at 20:25 - 48

Mobs focusing you because you have the Keg, Lever, Enchanted Torch or whatever is pretty ridiculous - and taking advantage of it is really taking advantage of a dumb AI. The AI most certainly shouldn't be brought to a stage where a level 20 enemy can match a level 20 player BUT they shouldn't be so dense as to attack someone because they are holding an object.

Such a change shouldn't screw anyone over - and if it does screw you over then you need to be not so pathetic to be able to cope with such a minor change. If people were to oppose a change like this it would be as laughable as the people who bitched about the mobs not standing under AoEs anymore because their braindead echo nuking no longer worked

I really couldn't care less if they changed the AI in this case. I would however laugh at people who complained they couldn't control the aggro by "picking up an object" -

Look at Glint, she's so damned easy because you can have one person carry an egg and strafe the whole match.

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

30 Nov 2005 at 20:30 - 49

Well, for the record... Ending the gear/keg/book/staff trick would be fine with me.

I know several warriors that think Gear Tanking is extremely boring. If this makes it more interesting for them, so be it. The Art of Aggroing is a lots art nowadays because of gears.

Just don't nerf necros. I haven't seen anything (yet) that's abusive/exploitative about the new MM/SS builds.

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

30 Nov 2005 at 20:31 - 50

You know, I played as my protection monk for a run through FoW where the group decided to do the book thing. The warrior did all stance skills and had 0 attribute points in any weapon skills. We brought a full team with us.

I was bored. I kept casting my spells, but none of them did any good. Thats because the tank's stances were impecable and non of the enemies would attack anyone but him. I was useless there.

The other monk, the healer, would cast a breeze now and then, but beyond that did absolutely nothing. That's because he wasn't needed either. I was bored. Our other monk was bored. Our blood necro was bored. The only people who actually felt useful on that trip was our eles and the tank (this was before the AI patch). I didn't know when we started the trip that we were going to do that dumb book thing, or I would have brought different spells more from my secondary.

The gear/book/etc trick is dumb. Just drop it.

/signed

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

30 Nov 2005 at 20:31 - 51

You know, I played as my protection monk for a run through FoW where the group decided to do the book thing. The warrior did all stance skills and had 0 attribute points in any weapon skills. We brought a full team with us.

I was bored. I kept casting my spells, but none of them did any good. Thats because the tank's stances were impecable and non of the enemies would attack anyone but him. I was useless there.

The other monk, the healer, would cast a breeze now and then, but beyond that did absolutely nothing. That's because he wasn't needed either. I was bored. Our other monk was bored. Our blood necro was bored. The only people who actually felt useful on that trip were our eles and the tank (this was before the AI patch). I didn't know when we started the trip that we were going to do that dumb book thing, or I would have brought different spells more from my secondary... and still probably would have felt like a fifth wheel.

The gear/book/etc trick is dumb. Just drop it.

/signed

Praetor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Somewhere over the rainbow

Devil Me [DEvM]

E/D

30 Nov 2005 at 20:42 - 52

I read about half the posts and ignored the rest. Some ppl write epics, while other ppl write whines.

Anyways, if you plan on nerfing those common builds for farming, fixing the gear/keg/book exploit, and doing whatnot, a.net better equilize it in that they should be expecting 7 or 8 member parties to go in together. Thus, I say (in optimism for those nerf-whiners) that ALL bosses should drop ALL their possible greens, but no single member can obtain more than 1 green from that particular boss at that time. This would also help out the green market, as supply of greens increases, yet demand relatively unchanged or reduced.

Another thing, if brohn stoneheart and bortak bonesmelter spawn "fairly" like the other bosses, maybe we won't see 100k +10 ecto for 1 over-rated brohn's holy rod.

BBoy_Manchild

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2005

dayton ohio

N/Mo

30 Nov 2005 at 20:52 - 53

poor acolyte, with your closed minded way of seeing things. monsters seeing fiends and minions and going right after necro would create a whole new "holding item" trick, instead of keeping the warrior alive, monks would focus on keeping necro alive, granted necros are soft targets, it would almost be just as easy

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

30 Nov 2005 at 20:53 - 54

I feel it's important to plug these sort of exploits. Even if you technically have the choice to not play this way, in reality you often don't.

Some of us happen to rely on PUGs. I don't play often enough to play with a consistent set of friends; they all inevitably pass me. Because I can't play as much as them, I have to play on my own and PUGs are the answer to my woes. But if there is an easy way to play (even if that way of playing will not be fun for you), the PUGs are going to want to do it. If you want to play with a group of people, you have to play their way or you'll have a hard time finding a group.

In fact, why even bring the "non-essential" classes? If you can clear FoW with just a warrior and a couple eles, you don't need to bring anyone else. It's a very easy strategy that does not involve any other classes. Even if they'll need one or two skills from another class, secondary professions can fill that. I think it's in Anet's interest to keep every class useful. That's the whole point of balancing. Not all of us play warriors or eles. I tried playing a warrior and got bored. It just wasn't my kind of class.

You want each class to shine in their own right. You do not want any one class to be so useful that they make other classes obsolete. Plug exploits. Make changes. Go ahead: NERF!

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 20:57 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

poor acolyte, with your closed minded way of seeing things. monsters seeing fiends and minions and going right after necro would create a whole new "holding item" trick, instead of keeping the warrior alive, monks would focus on keeping necro alive, granted necros are soft targets, it would almost be just as easy

careful, I know this thread is becoming lengthy, but I even called this out in my first post. Maybe if you tried reading the entire thread you wouldn't make a comment based on a fallacy?

I've already stated that making adjustments to the MM class in place of just fixing the book trick is not ideal, for that very reason. If the holding the item trick stays and the MM class modified, the holding item trick will just reveal another weakness. I'm relatively ok with the necro class as is without the book trick. I think the journey to SF is MUCH more fun and challenging than actually farming SF.

EDIT: Also, you're idea wouldn't work if my MM adjustment was put in place, because there is NO way a necro would ever be able to get enough minions up that the minions would be able to hold up as a "shield" (and the necro in essence the metaphorical book/keg/gear/rod/etc). When one or MAYBE two bone fiends pop up, the FIRST thing a good group does is find and kill the necro, because good players know too many minions = death.

Sharpe_116

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Adventurers Society

Mo/W

30 Nov 2005 at 22:16 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Acolyte

sorry that this upsets you. I guess what I'm beginning to be very bothered by are the responses stating that they don't like it without actually stating why (????)

My current assumption is because they feel comfortable with the ease of today's setup. Playing the game right now is too easy. There is little challenge outside of running these farming runs so many times in the hopes of getting a green item you're looking for. Those that don't like the idea of revamping the gear/keg/boo/rod/etc trick are most likely the same ones that are exploiting the technique for their own gain.

Come on...I thought the point of this format was to focus on ways to make the game more balanced, more challenging, more fun, and more cooperative. I hardly think that using the gear/book/keg/rod/etc trick promotes this.

Like I said earlier, I KNOW I'm going to get flamed. But come on...at least put up the reasons why you don't like this. Maybe I'm missing the point behind the trick....maybe it's not an exploit...

On the other hand, maybe it is a component of the game that needs to be fixed. Like I said, one of two things needs to be resolved. Either this new fad of minion armies needs to be balanced like the AoE (since it's highly AI stupid to let more than 10 minions pop without a huge level of agro moved to the necro), or the gear/keg/book/rod/etc trick needs to be revamped. I vote the latter, only because fixing the minion master will reveal another class that can exploit the trick.

well im sorry if u missed my point. I included why i dislike the idea. I didnt just post *i dont like it* now did I????

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 22:27 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

well im sorry if u missed my point. I included why i dislike the idea. I didnt just post *i dont like it* now did I????

This is the quote I was referring to:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

ok.. i do not liek this idea... please... but down the oversized nerf bat.... and back away..... i remember the good old days..... why cant they come back... before everythign was nerfed to oblivion.... as someone said. JUST PLAY THE GAME

...no, I don't think this explains why you don't like the idea. Did I miss another post?

Help me understand why the current exploit benefits the game (this is truly not stated sarcasticaly, I am truly all ears when it comes to this). I just have a hard time believing that Anet intended for the item to be used this way. I think it's working as designed, but that doesn't mean that is the way the item was meant to be used.

PLUG: Still calling for someone from Anet to confirm that the way the keg/book/gear/rod/etc items are being used to farm is how they meant them to be used. It would be really nice to have some dialogue with them on this

Sharpe_116

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Adventurers Society

Mo/W

30 Nov 2005 at 22:35 - 58

Why i dislike this idea is. im an oldies guy :P. I really dislike the idea of constintly changing a game??? cant anyone just be happy with what they have???. Countinously changing the game is annoying lots of people, and satisfying lots of people?? now why is a-net narrow minded, and going with the group that enjoys it...granted. that i liked most of the updates... for example. Prot bond, when they nerfed that, i didnt care, made it harder for me *but still possible*. when they added nightmares to uw. GREAT, more challenge. but when the aoe update came............. o god..... they destroyed a portion of the elementilist... think about it... no one will ever use aoe spells again... they just ripped out around 10 spells from the game. not including all the monk smites. they just made the spells useless?? so can we please stop changing the game and enjoy the way it is

.

*sorry if u did not understand my originall post * ill try to be more clear

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

30 Nov 2005 at 23:05 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Acolyte

EDIT: Also, you're idea wouldn't work if my MM adjustment was put in place, because there is NO way a necro would ever be able to get enough minions up that the minions would be able to hold up as a "shield" (and the necro in essence the metaphorical book/keg/gear/rod/etc). When one or MAYBE two bone fiends pop up, the FIRST thing a good group does is find and kill the necro, because good players know too many minions = death.

Now, see, you had to go say "NO way" didn't you?

Stances, Aegis, Wards, etc. Suddenly N/W is popular. Targeting the MM would just replace the gear tank, and you could probably still raise a significant army. You could DEFINATELY raise an army between battles and that would work just as well. As long as you can get a Verata's Sacrifice off (that's the most important one) you'll be ok.

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

30 Nov 2005 at 23:11 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

but when the aoe update came............. o god..... they destroyed a portion of the elementilist... think about it... no one will ever use aoe spells again... they just ripped out around 10 spells from the game. not including all the monk smites. they just made the spells useless??

Players still use AoEs just as effectively as before, and actually I find you can exploit them just as much as before. Now you drop a snare on a group of enemies as the AoEs come, and instead of continuing to attack your meatshield they attempt to run away. However, it's that kind of of strategy that gearholders will never develop.

Not to sound like a very arrogant player, but do you abuse the holding item trick? It would so deliciously prove my point.

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

30 Nov 2005 at 23:57 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

Now, see, you had to go say "NO way" didn't you?

Stances, Aegis, Wards, etc. Suddenly N/W is popular. Targeting the MM would just replace the gear tank, and you could probably still raise a significant army. You could DEFINATELY raise an army between battles and that would work just as well. As long as you can get a Verata's Sacrifice off (that's the most important one) you'll be ok.

DOH...caught on that one. I owe an apology and correction. "No way" in the way that there is "no way" that mobs will stand under an AoE after the AoE patch.

Thanks for the correction...there should be ways to overcome this via intelligent thinking and playing

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

01 Dec 2005 at 00:04 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

Why i dislike this idea is. im an oldies guy :P. I really dislike the idea of constintly changing a game??? cant anyone just be happy with what they have???. Countinously changing the game is annoying lots of people, and satisfying lots of people?? now why is a-net narrow minded, and going with the group that enjoys it...granted. that i liked most of the updates... for example. Prot bond, when they nerfed that, i didnt care, made it harder for me *but still possible*. when they added nightmares to uw. GREAT, more challenge. but when the aoe update came............. o god..... they destroyed a portion of the elementilist... think about it... no one will ever use aoe spells again... they just ripped out around 10 spells from the game. not including all the monk smites. they just made the spells useless?? so can we please stop changing the game and enjoy the way it is

.

*sorry if u did not understand my originall post * ill try to be more clear

No worries, thanks for clarifying. This is similar to Damon's argument though, that the game shouldn't change (aka evolve) because people point out these "tricks" (aka exploits). That's what this forum is for.

Just curious, in what way does this exploit benefit the GW community, outside of creating a mindless way to farm SF or FoW?

Lord Oranos

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fort Aspenwood

01 Dec 2005 at 00:46 - 63

Ah screw it, dont feel like arguing.
I agree with removing the bug, but something else will replace it. Sad but true.

General Surena

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Germany

None

W/

01 Dec 2005 at 01:32 - 64

/signed

That "trick" is more than retarded and doesn't really contribute to skillful playing rather than turning it into some slot-machine orgy.

- your friendly Wammo

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

01 Dec 2005 at 14:35 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Surena

/signed

That "trick" is more than retarded and doesn't really contribute to skillful playing rather than turning it into some slot-machine orgy.

- your friendly Wammo

lmao...yeah, good point. The most difficult part about these runs is getting enough "luck" to get the item you're hoping for...

Sharpe_116

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

The Adventurers Society

Mo/W

01 Dec 2005 at 18:15 - 66

i agree with the point that the exploit makes it easy for people to numbly farm sf infinitly, without any skill... but what can you do?? if thats the way they do it, then let them make the money and boost it into the economy

striderkaaru

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer

W/

01 Dec 2005 at 20:32 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpe_116

i agree with the point that the exploit makes it easy for people to numbly farm sf infinitly, without any skill... but what can you do?? if thats the way they do it, then let them make the money and boost it into the economy

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Damon Windwalker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

The Wandering Gits

01 Dec 2005 at 20:58 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Converseley though - I've seen plenty of people screw up UW and FoW rund because of other moments of stupidity as well....

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

01 Dec 2005 at 21:16 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

Or won't play without it. It's hard for me to get a group that isn't going to do that stuff, which is a shame since that trick makes it boring.

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

01 Dec 2005 at 21:21 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Converseley though - I've seen plenty of people screw up UW and FoW rund because of other moments of stupidity as well....

hahaha....so true. Hell, you have to have a halfway decent group just to GET to the book in FoW, and many days that's tough enough (unfortunately).

Gotta agree though, it would be nice to have it be a regular occurance to get passed that point because everyone is used to questing/farming in FoW without the book. But getting rid of book trick definitely won't eliminate stupidity...

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

01 Dec 2005 at 21:24 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

well, if that's all that they do, then fine. the problem is when people who are too reliant on this "trick" want to do uw or fow and screw the team over because they can't play well without it.

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undivine

Or won't play without it. It's hard for me to get a group that isn't going to do that stuff, which is a shame since that trick makes it boring.

Yup, as stated before the problem here is that people will only farm with book. I JUST tried to find a group of people who would be willing to farm SF without the keg/gear for 2 hours, and guess what?? I found ONE person who was patient enough to wait for 45 minutes before saying he was sorry, but he still wanted to at the very least farm SF.

As a caveat, after 2 hours I went into SF and farmed it with the trick (of course), so I most definitely have NOT stopped playing in the meantime. Oh, and picked up another Gorrels staff ----it! Why can't I get Grognars sword?!

Edit: spelled "grognars" sword correctly (instead of "grodnars")...should spell check before I hit submit...

jesh

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

San Diego, CA

Penguin Village

Mo/

01 Dec 2005 at 22:01 - 72

/signed

The more skill the game requires, the better, I say. Right now you could teach a three year old how to tank sf.

Symeon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

02 Dec 2005 at 15:44 - 73

Well I'm not very enthusiastic as regards to SF and farming there since I haven't done much myself, but I know what you're talking about here and agree that changes to AI aggro there are needed.

vvh

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

02 Dec 2005 at 22:07 - 74

Geez, if you are bored with certain stragety or tired of seeing it, why don't you create a new one yourself and do it with your guilldmates. I'm telling you this, people don't like change and it's no point to make them change coz " YOU" are bored. People farm for different reason, some for gold, some for items and some for the challege. If "YOUUUUUUUU" want challenge, go and farm with just necro and mesmer henchie, that should be challenging enough. Everything gets boring and becomes easy if you do it everyday. That's called learning curve. I will say it again, just because "YOU" are bored, there is no need to ruin the fun of others who are in farming for a different reason. You like challenge, it's admirable. But the world certainly do not revolve around you. (quoted from Mhenlo)

The Acolyte

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seekers of Justice ~ SoJ

03 Dec 2005 at 04:25 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvh

Geez, if you are bored with certain stragety or tired of seeing it, why don't you create a new one yourself and do it with your guilldmates. I'm telling you this, people don't like change and it's no point to make them change coz " YOU" are bored. People farm for different reason, some for gold, some for items and some for the challege. If "YOUUUUUUUU" want challenge, go and farm with just necro and mesmer henchie, that should be challenging enough. Everything gets boring and becomes easy if you do it everyday. That's called learning curve. I will say it again, just because "YOU" are bored, there is no need to ruin the fun of others who are in farming for a different reason. You like challenge, it's admirable. But the world certainly do not revolve around you. (quoted from Mhenlo)

Read posts above...this point is thoroughly discussed. To be a parrot, SF was designed to be for advanced players. There is nothing skillful or advanced about the holding item trick. If you don't have skill and need an item to farm, go farm sanctum cay, or better yet, LEARN. It's not about what "I" want, it's about enhancing the game in a way that promotes intelligent and skillful playing. And if you haven't developed the skill to move on, then you don't deserve to move on. All of the missions are setup this way, so if you don't learn how to work as a team and you don't learn how to leverage your build in a way that benefits the team (henchies or PCs), then you are stopped from continuing. Why should there be an exception to this rule in an advanced zone rewarding players with (for the most part) GREAT items. This recommendation is just one more step along the lines of game evolution. My recommendation is to fix this issue to spur creativeity and intelligence; your's is to continue with the same brainless approach to farming SF and FoW.

It's funny, because this is just a statement that we "shouldn't change the game" because it "works." AKA, it's easy to farm and get green items/shards/xp by holding an item rather than using skill. These are supposed to be ADVANCED areas for ADVANCED players...a frigging retard (using the term literally and scientifically) could use the keg trick to farm SF. That's just absolutely idiotic from a game programming and design standpoint, as well as a player development standpoint.

EDIT: I didn't ask for AoE's to be changed, but I was sure as hell glad they did. This is just one more change Anet will need to make (yes, in my opinion) to make the game more interesting for advanced players, in Anet's self quoted advanced zones.

Linsys

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Afk Mac N Cheeze Dun [LOOL]

Mo/N

02 Jan 2006 at 19:59 - 76

I read most of the posts, so here is my 2 cents.

I have been running FoW and UW long before SF ever came out..

Anyway, as far as the keg and book "trick" goes, I hear and eve agree with some of the posts that warriors need to learn how to tank properly, however I don't put 100% of the responsibility on the warrior, there is a thing and its called the AGRO CIRCLE which most people have No clue how to use and always break agro, there is a way to allow the wariror to maintain full agro in SF, FoW and UW (there is no book or keg in UW but.. yea) without a book or keg or anything like it.

My problem is if I run with my guild we could clear FoW without the book, but if I want a pickup group in ToA you better belive we are going to use the book trick because its nearly impossible to get a group to even make it to the book let along complete a mission, this is HIGHLY frustrating to me.

I even like to organize groups on TS and help new people learn the FoW and SF ropes but there is ALWAY someone in the group who is like "Why are we waiting I just want to attack something" and goes and over agros... unfortunatly the book and the keg happen to be the solution to this issue.

If it wasn't for the book or the keg I would NEVER do FoW or SF with a pickup group because it would take group after group to find people who know what they are doing.

Now before you say the keg and the book create this problem, I think that is an incorrect preception as well, the book for me was like my training whells for FoW, I got the chance to learn all the quests with my warrior and have sucessfully taugh others using the book trick. All of us now are able to run FoW with NO book at all.

Thanks for reading.

Undivine

of Brackenwood

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ontario, Canada

02 Jan 2006 at 20:36 - 77

You couldn't fully read 3 pages?

Sure, the book trick might be good for training for a warrior (that can be debated), but what about the rest of us? I am not a ****ing warrior!

Rafe

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

California

W/

02 Jan 2006 at 22:29 - 78

I have not even seen this point brought up, but these tricks drive prices way down. The mesmer bosses inside Sorrows Furnace are so overfarmed that if you get a mesmer boss spawn, most groups don't even bother killing the boss. At one point even greens from bosses outside of SF were worth 10K. Now I have to give them away at prices like 1k.
/Signed

Eder

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

02 Jan 2006 at 23:06 - 79

/signed

I agree that the AI should be changed to act smarter in regards to gear-carrying-warriors and MMs... I expect ANet to update this in the future since the so-called AoE nerf was also an update that aimed to make the AI act smarter. It is therefore my understanding that ANet believes a smarter AI is a positive addition to the game.

If ANet wanted to side with the "shut up, adapt, and play the game" crowd, all of us numbskulls would still be LF Echo Nukers!!!!, dying to NR teams, chasing after invinci-monk griefers in the random arenas and/or spamming signet of capture at random times in hopes of capturing a boss's elite stance.

Legendary Necromancer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

N/Me

03 Jan 2006 at 01:39 - 80

I don't get it, nerf the blasted book/gear/rod trick. It's an exploit, and it won't kill us all when it's gone.

I know we shouldn't swing the nerf bat so recklessly, but if your saying we should just sit around and let these problems pass. I honestly don't see the problem with nerfing it.

Also, my comments to the MM aggro thing: Some creatures in Tyria aren't very intelligent (ettins for example), so maybe we should implant this AI in smarter creatures, like centaurs and dwarves.