I recently created a new ranger in PvE, and I decided that I would focus on the attributes Beast Mastery, Expertise and Wilderness Survival. Now, I've been playing Guild Wars for 6 months, and after creating this character, I suddenly realized that I've never seen any weapons that are linked to ranger attributes other than Marksmanship (If there are any, then I must not have been paying very much attention).
I think that this is slightly ridiculous.
So basically, if I want to be able to use a weapon effectively, I can't build this ranger the way that I want. Therefore, I'm putting forth the suggestion that new weapons (or simple variations of existing weapons) be created that are linked to Expertise, Beast Mastery or Wilderness Survival.
Here are a few weapon suggestions:
1.) Bows - Exactly like the bows that already exist, except they would be linked to other attributes
2.) Bows with shorter range
3.) Crossbows
Honestly, I don't care what these weapons would be. I just want to be able to use a weapon effectively, as a pure ranger, without having to sink a lot of points into Marksmanship.
Ranger weapons that aren't linked to Marksmanship
ancient_chozo
The Purple Pants Guy
The bows with shorter range already exist, and yes they're linked to marksmanship.
I think I heard an idea somewhere for a beast mastery whip or something. Maybe a muffin would work for expertise...AHHHHH stupid muffins.
Yeah, weapons for other attributes really would be nice.
/signed
I think I heard an idea somewhere for a beast mastery whip or something. Maybe a muffin would work for expertise...AHHHHH stupid muffins.
Yeah, weapons for other attributes really would be nice.
/signed
Laurelin Goldtree
Really, to effectively use a bow, you need to concentrate on Wilderness Survival AND Marksmanship. I mean, shooting off your bow isn't helpful if you're only doing 10 dmg a hit-you need Nature Rituals and Preparations-which are Wilderness Survival.
It annoys me that when I go into the UW as a trapper, I can only be a trapper because my bow does squat for dmg. So, this suggestion is definitely
/signed
It annoys me that when I go into the UW as a trapper, I can only be a trapper because my bow does squat for dmg. So, this suggestion is definitely
/signed
the drizzle
I'm all for wilderness survival/expertise/beast mastery staffs, but wilderness survival and expertise bows I don't think would work very well. They might be overpowered, if not ridiculous. How can a ranger with no knowledge of marksmanship still accurately fire a bow?
OneArmedScissor
Rangers need to have javelins and pikes and spears, etc.
Tuoba Hturt Eht
Here are my suggestions to contribute to this topic:
(In which definitely have been suggested before by other people)
Expertise
Daggers
Wilderness Survival
Staff
Beast Mastery
Whip
Cheers.
(In which definitely have been suggested before by other people)
Expertise
Daggers
Wilderness Survival
Staff
Beast Mastery
Whip
Cheers.
DeanBB
Yeah, I've gone Ra/Elem and had some fire so as to use either staff or wand/artifact for the energy boost.
A ranger beastmaster staff would be good and keeps with the ranged theme. Also fits for wilderness survival, as would a cane (think walking stick) and claw/paw/idol artifact for the offhand.
Dagger and whip are short range, and I'd prefer to stay out of melee range.
A ranger beastmaster staff would be good and keeps with the ranged theme. Also fits for wilderness survival, as would a cane (think walking stick) and claw/paw/idol artifact for the offhand.
Dagger and whip are short range, and I'd prefer to stay out of melee range.
Vilaptca
<-----REALLY wants a Wilderness Survival staff for trapping.
Como Fort
/not signed
Surely the point of the Ranger is to shoot people? Hence the name Ranger.
To shoot people, you need Marksmanship. Seems fair to me.
Surely the point of the Ranger is to shoot people? Hence the name Ranger.
To shoot people, you need Marksmanship. Seems fair to me.
Fungus Amongus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ancient_chozo
I recently created a new ranger in PvE, and I decided that I would focus on the attributes Beast Mastery
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ancient_chozo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fungus Amongus
In this case your Beast is your weapon.
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Why should I be disallowed the effective use of a weapon just because I choose to use Expertise, Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival? It doesn't happen for any other combination of attributes.
MSecorsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ancient_chozo
I thought about that before I posted, actually, but then I realized the following: If you focus on Beast Mastery and any other attribute; save for Expertise, Wilderness Survival, Strength and Tactics; you will have your pet and an effective weapon. And Strength and Tactics hardly count since these attributes are tied to shield use.
Why should I be disallowed the effective use of a weapon just because I choose to use Expertise, Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival? It doesn't happen for any other combination of attributes. |
Hey, I'm primarily a ranger and see no problems with things as they are in this regards.
Hannibel
No need for extra weapons
Beast mastery like Fungues Amongus said, your beast is your weapon, no point in beast mastery, the skills cost 5 energy, and there's no casting time on beast mastery attacks, only casting time are on spirits.
You don't have to choose a weapon, you choose to, if your gonna base your skills on Expertise, Beast Mastery, and Wilderness Survival there's not weapon out there that's gonna be effective unless you had an enchament from like an elementalist maybe.
Wilderness survival-the energy for some of these skills cost a good amount, but there's a reason why they have expertise to lower the cost of them, they're not spells there skills.
Beast mastery like Fungues Amongus said, your beast is your weapon, no point in beast mastery, the skills cost 5 energy, and there's no casting time on beast mastery attacks, only casting time are on spirits.
You don't have to choose a weapon, you choose to, if your gonna base your skills on Expertise, Beast Mastery, and Wilderness Survival there's not weapon out there that's gonna be effective unless you had an enchament from like an elementalist maybe.
Wilderness survival-the energy for some of these skills cost a good amount, but there's a reason why they have expertise to lower the cost of them, they're not spells there skills.
Rajamic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ancient_chozo
I thought about that before I posted, actually, but then I realized the following: If you focus on Beast Mastery and any other attribute; save for Expertise, Wilderness Survival, Strength and Tactics; you will have your pet and an effective weapon.
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I see no problem with Wilderness Survival staves and something for beastmastery, but nothing for Expertise. It's already a ridiculously powerful attribute by itself, and giving it a weapon type would make it just silly to use much of anything else. Or just give us a Bow grip with +5 energy, since that's a bigger help to trappers and beastmasters than a wimpy secondary weapon.
reetkever
Actually I don't want Staffs or something, My primairy character is a Ranger, and I would always choose a bow over a Staff or Whip (Bow's are just "linked" to Rangers).
I don't see any logic in how wilderniss survival helps you shoot better with a bow, it would ruin the game (come on, trapping is already very strong, we don't need a max DMG bow with it as well, and Expertise is just something you need or not, it's your decision to throw points in it)
Let's say it like this, when you're a ranger, you can choose for
A: Beast Tamery (Beast Mastery)
B: Shooting Arrows (Markmanship
C: Trapping (Wilderniss Survival)
And Expertise is just there to spend your remaining points in (if you have 20 in 1 of the above, you can get Expertise to 20 as well, and "fight cheap").
Of course, Interrupting doesn't count since it's scattered across all the attributes
I don't see any logic in how wilderniss survival helps you shoot better with a bow, it would ruin the game (come on, trapping is already very strong, we don't need a max DMG bow with it as well, and Expertise is just something you need or not, it's your decision to throw points in it)
Let's say it like this, when you're a ranger, you can choose for
A: Beast Tamery (Beast Mastery)
B: Shooting Arrows (Markmanship
C: Trapping (Wilderniss Survival)
And Expertise is just there to spend your remaining points in (if you have 20 in 1 of the above, you can get Expertise to 20 as well, and "fight cheap").
Of course, Interrupting doesn't count since it's scattered across all the attributes
NatalieD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
Surely the point of the Ranger is to shoot people? Hence the name Ranger.
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prime stinger
Rangers have Bows and Arrows, you guys are just trying to make them like Legolas with daggers and melle weapons, Rangers attack form a Range, HEnce the name, they dont have the defence to be in close combat with a whip for example, i dont think they will make extra weapons for rangers other then bows.
lyra_song
" In general, a ranger is a keeper, guardian, or soldier who ranges over a region to protect the area or enforce the law. The mystique of the ranger has been harnessed for military, sports and governmental uses as well as appearing in fiction: "
Last i checked, the US Army Rangers and Forest Rangers don't have bows and arrows associated with them.
The classic fantasy example of a Ranger was Aragorn/Strider who clearly fights with a sword, as well as a bow and arrow.
In guild wars, i believe the Ranger is keeper of nature and the animals.
I believe that Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival need STAVES. Nothing else.
Why?
Beast Master: The ranger beast master does not hold a master/slave relationship to his pet. It is a symbiosis and mutually beneficial partnership (I prefer animal partner/ally/companion as opposed to "pet"). Therefore, a whip would NOT fit into the role of a mutual partnership because a whip would indicate dominance and control. Hell...a whip would fit MESMERS more. A beast master is one with his animals. He is their friend and ally. Why would he WHIP them?? He can already control and direct them without such a thing. I see a whip more in line with a Stone Summit Giant herder than a Ascalon Beast Master.
So a beastmaster staff would be perfect becauses taves already exist in the game. Less work than making whips or knives. It is a ranged weapon so the "range" in ranger stays true.
As for Wilderness survival, anyone out here who does serious camping or hiking WITHOUT a walking stick/staff??
As for expertise....This is the primary attribute. I believe this attribute refers to how good a ranger is and does not neccessarily require its own weapon.
Last i checked, the US Army Rangers and Forest Rangers don't have bows and arrows associated with them.
The classic fantasy example of a Ranger was Aragorn/Strider who clearly fights with a sword, as well as a bow and arrow.
In guild wars, i believe the Ranger is keeper of nature and the animals.
I believe that Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival need STAVES. Nothing else.
Why?
Beast Master: The ranger beast master does not hold a master/slave relationship to his pet. It is a symbiosis and mutually beneficial partnership (I prefer animal partner/ally/companion as opposed to "pet"). Therefore, a whip would NOT fit into the role of a mutual partnership because a whip would indicate dominance and control. Hell...a whip would fit MESMERS more. A beast master is one with his animals. He is their friend and ally. Why would he WHIP them?? He can already control and direct them without such a thing. I see a whip more in line with a Stone Summit Giant herder than a Ascalon Beast Master.
So a beastmaster staff would be perfect becauses taves already exist in the game. Less work than making whips or knives. It is a ranged weapon so the "range" in ranger stays true.
As for Wilderness survival, anyone out here who does serious camping or hiking WITHOUT a walking stick/staff??
As for expertise....This is the primary attribute. I believe this attribute refers to how good a ranger is and does not neccessarily require its own weapon.
Leonof
Why have a bow that's not linked to marksmanship? Really senseless if you ask me. It's like making a sword that isn't linked to swordsmanship, doesn't make sense at all.
Como Fort
Rangers are already overpowered without having more energy+ staffs to make trapping in tombs hell. Why is no one with a ranger ever happy unless they're getting more and more and more...
Thock
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
Beast Mastery
Whip |
*calls PETA
Cirian
Being a ranger doesn't imply you're an archer. The name is to do with being a keeper of an area of land, and using whatever tools are appropriate for the job - at least that's what a ranger is in the UK.
I'm all for weapons tied to other attributes because I don't use marksmanship much either!
Someone already mentioned something similar to this ->
expertise: hunting knives, possibly thrown or dual wielded (as in the 'whirling defense' icon)
wilderness survival: a druid's staff, just like a caster staff - or as a quarterstaff to be used in melee
beast mastery: whips
(edit: currently as a ranger/necromancer I use a truncheon and idol... eww... nice touch strikes though!)
I'm all for weapons tied to other attributes because I don't use marksmanship much either!
Someone already mentioned something similar to this ->
expertise: hunting knives, possibly thrown or dual wielded (as in the 'whirling defense' icon)
wilderness survival: a druid's staff, just like a caster staff - or as a quarterstaff to be used in melee
beast mastery: whips
(edit: currently as a ranger/necromancer I use a truncheon and idol... eww... nice touch strikes though!)
Guardian of the Light
Well Rangers do need another weapon look at my Tally of different attribute offhands and Weaopons for other professions
Ranger Weapons-1
Offhand-0
Warrior Weapons-3
Offhands-2
Monk Weapons-2
offhands-3
Elementist Weapons-4!
Offhands-4!
Nerco Weapons-3
offhands-3
Mesmer Weapons-2
Offhands-3
I didn't add those crazy out of the box collecter items thou.
Seems unfair to me. HOWEVER I think only Beastmastery should be another weapon.
Trappers have a weapon its called TRAPS. There already power. So none for Wilderness Survival or Expertise. Just Beastmasters need them because already there just too weak putting a weapon in for Beastmastery would make them HoH material.
Ranger Weapons-1
Offhand-0
Warrior Weapons-3
Offhands-2
Monk Weapons-2
offhands-3
Elementist Weapons-4!
Offhands-4!
Nerco Weapons-3
offhands-3
Mesmer Weapons-2
Offhands-3
I didn't add those crazy out of the box collecter items thou.
Seems unfair to me. HOWEVER I think only Beastmastery should be another weapon.
Trappers have a weapon its called TRAPS. There already power. So none for Wilderness Survival or Expertise. Just Beastmasters need them because already there just too weak putting a weapon in for Beastmastery would make them HoH material.
Vilaptca
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light
Seems unfair to me. HOWEVER I think only Beastmastery should be another weapon.
Trappers have a weapon its called TRAPS. There already power. So none for Wilderness Survival or Expertise. Just Beastmasters need them because already there just too weak putting a weapon in for Beastmastery would make them HoH material. |
I can understand reasons why Expertise wouldn't have a weapon associated to it, but there is no reason why Wilderness Survival shouldn't have a weapon associated to it. A staff for trappers would NOT make them any more powerful.
TokranePo
I think the better solution might be to just have a staff that gives a ranger bonus. You already have a secondary profession, if you want something that kicks butt to go with your ranger who doesn't shoot bows then you could just get a staff that helps a ranger out. That way you would have to sacrifice attribute points for your staff [say, it is an elementalist staff, so you need to have your air magic up to a certain level or something for it to be completely effective] in order to get all the bonuses that come with it. Balances things out.
No major changes in gameplay.
No major changes in gameplay.
Pagan Greyfeather
Being primarily a ranger throughout the game (and I have finished the game with the other 5 char types as well) I can agree that it would be nice to have some kind of weapon supplement for Beast Masters. I don't see anyway they could ever dominate or become FoTM in halls (believe me, I've looked into that! lol) But for PvE it would really rock. Expertise should NOT have any bonus weapons because some serious abuse could occur there and trappers already use staffs so no need to make them any more powerful. On a side note, although i love LOTR as much as anybody, I have to tell you its a standing rule in my Guild to target rangers named Legolas first. We will ignore monks, mesmers and everything else to take down someone unimaginative (and obviously uninformed since last time I checked Aragorn was the ranger) enough to run a Ranger named Legolas all the while spamming "Legolas must Die!" in chat. Its cost us a couple of wins but nothing replaces the sheer satisfaction of whacking some elf-wannabe in Tombs. -Pagan
Manic Smile
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Como Fort
/not signed
Surely the point of the Ranger is to shoot people? Hence the name Ranger. To shoot people, you need Marksmanship. Seems fair to me. |
Manic Smile
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Actually I don't want Staffs or something, My primairy character is a Ranger, and I would always choose a bow over a Staff or Whip (Bow's are just "linked" to Rangers).
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Shwitz
Give me staves that are Beast Mastery or Wildernes Survival-linked!
fallot
Staves would be a good idea, a melee staff linked to wilderness survival that doesnt give a large bonus to energy (and has different upgrades than caster staves) would be a good idea. I'd like to see a little more variety in bows too, since its the only weapon rangers have at the moment.
Laurelin Goldtree
Quote:
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Originally Posted by prime stinger
Rangers have Bows and Arrows, you guys are just trying to make them like Legolas with daggers and melle weapons, Rangers attack form a Range, HEnce the name, they dont have the defence to be in close combat with a whip for example, i dont think they will make extra weapons for rangers other then bows.
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And if we don't have the defense for melee, then the responsibility to stay alive would rest on us. I mean, Rangers have much higher elemental protection than warriors do and MANY evasive stances. So, yes, you may do more damage to a ranger when you hit him....IF you can hit him, so really, it balances out.
To whoever suggested melee staves: I LOVE the idea of seeing my Laurelin kick butt with a quarterstaff. The female's 15k Druid's wouldn't look so out-of-place then (though I can hardly say I'd condone the look any more than I do now but that's an entirely different thread right there). I wouldn't necessarily suggest having it like a caster staff, but rather like a hammer linked to Wildnerness Survival: 2 handed, high-damage, slow attack speed, etc.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht
Here are my suggestions to contribute to this topic:
(In which definitely have been suggested before by other people) Expertise Daggers Wilderness Survival Staff Beast Mastery Whip Cheers. |
Edit: Sorry it came out as 2 posts guys-I was hoping it'd shrink into 1...
Edit: Merged into one post. -PieXags
Silas Verdeii
I really like the idea of having beastmaster or wilderness survival weapons. I agree with some of the previous posters that having a bow would be slightly silly. all the other weapon classes(daggers, swords, axes, hammers) have their own attribute, so marksmanship should stay with bows.
however, having a staff or rod/focus would be really neat. it would acknowledge that the ranger class is a crossover between combat(archery) and spellcasting(traps,spirits,pets) classes.
In order to keep things balanced these weapons would have to have a relatively low damage output which would transform the ranger into more of a support or caster role rather than damage dealer of a archer.
I know that staves and so on are available for other classes and we can always use those, but it seems silly to have to use up 6-9attributes into a skills set that you don't want to focus on in order to be able to use a weapon as well as skills effectively.
I also really like the idea of Laurelin posted above that the staves would be short range. quarterstaves are by far my favourite combat weapon and it would be awesome to have it in the game, and then the ranger class would be even cooler(and it would justify us having such strong armor)
however, having a staff or rod/focus would be really neat. it would acknowledge that the ranger class is a crossover between combat(archery) and spellcasting(traps,spirits,pets) classes.
In order to keep things balanced these weapons would have to have a relatively low damage output which would transform the ranger into more of a support or caster role rather than damage dealer of a archer.
I know that staves and so on are available for other classes and we can always use those, but it seems silly to have to use up 6-9attributes into a skills set that you don't want to focus on in order to be able to use a weapon as well as skills effectively.
I also really like the idea of Laurelin posted above that the staves would be short range. quarterstaves are by far my favourite combat weapon and it would be awesome to have it in the game, and then the ranger class would be even cooler(and it would justify us having such strong armor)
Dougal Kronik
/signed
I think that a quarterstaff would fit well with the entire image of what a Ranger comprises. Two Handed weapon that can be either Beast Mastery or Wilderness Survival.
The only negative, I've collected quite a few bows for different applications - now I would have even less storage trying to manage quarterstaves!
I think that a quarterstaff would fit well with the entire image of what a Ranger comprises. Two Handed weapon that can be either Beast Mastery or Wilderness Survival.
The only negative, I've collected quite a few bows for different applications - now I would have even less storage trying to manage quarterstaves!
Maria The Princess
i think that we should have a Trapper weapon. not that i'm not happy with my bows, but there is too many builds based on trapping, and oviously we are using stuffs... but how about a weapon req wilderness survival, with something like: halves preparation time on skills 10% chance, or halves skill recharge on Traps 20% chance.
lol the only way i imagine a beast masterer weapon is a whipe....
lol the only way i imagine a beast masterer weapon is a whipe....
draxynnic
One discussion I've had while discussing this idea with a guildie resulted in the idea that crossbows would probably be best for Wilderness Survival - that way, you're still firing something arrow-like enough for preparations to still work 
. On the flipside, however, the crossbows should have less DPS than a bow of the same type for balance, and a smaller selection of types (I would defenitely expect to see an equivalent of the horn bow, but not of the shortbow, for instance). Another balancing element is that it wouldn't have the bonus to energy of a staff, so the trapper wouldn't be getting both a big boost to energy and an effective weapon off the same attribute.
For beastmastery, just to be different, we came up with a sling - nice simple weapon using basic materials, with the same general rules as a crossbow (except with different types available - I wouldn't expect a horn bow sling, but I would expect a shortbow or flatbow sling...)
Also, one thing to consider on extra weapons for rangers - It also helps ranger secondaries, especially W/Rs, by giving them a ranged weapon without having to make a large expenditure in Marksmanship. The ability to pull out a ranged weapon when fighting at melee isn't advisable for one reason or another is something I really missed when I experimented with Gwenyth as a W/R.
. On the flipside, however, the crossbows should have less DPS than a bow of the same type for balance, and a smaller selection of types (I would defenitely expect to see an equivalent of the horn bow, but not of the shortbow, for instance). Another balancing element is that it wouldn't have the bonus to energy of a staff, so the trapper wouldn't be getting both a big boost to energy and an effective weapon off the same attribute.For beastmastery, just to be different, we came up with a sling - nice simple weapon using basic materials, with the same general rules as a crossbow (except with different types available - I wouldn't expect a horn bow sling, but I would expect a shortbow or flatbow sling...)
Also, one thing to consider on extra weapons for rangers - It also helps ranger secondaries, especially W/Rs, by giving them a ranged weapon without having to make a large expenditure in Marksmanship. The ability to pull out a ranged weapon when fighting at melee isn't advisable for one reason or another is something I really missed when I experimented with Gwenyth as a W/R.
BakedMonkey
hmm...beast mastery..give the ranger claws! haha
COOL TROLL JOHN
Every profession has one main weapon that they put thier attribute points in. You have chosen beast mastery so your beast is your weapon. At this point your bow becomes secondary basically a pulling weapon. No profession gets two weapons to use at the same time, which is basically what you are asking for.Why should a ranger or any other profession for that matter have two high damage dealing items that can be used at the same time. The ranger is already one of the best professions in the game. I believe you need to use your beast skills better because what you are asking for here will never happen the way you want. If a warrior is a sword warrior his points go into swordsmanship if axe they go to axe mastery and so on. Think about what you are asking for and understand that that your pet IS A WEAPON. By the way my favorite profession is the ranger i just believe what you are asking would throw it out of balance. Maybe give your pet a weapon claws perhaps.
DeathDealer
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Last i checked, the US Army Rangers and Forest Rangers don't have bows and arrows associated with them.
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Rangers in GW use bows..warriors use swords...so on and so forth. The only thing that would be neat would be the addition of crossbows (that would be kinda cool)..
Isis Mordecai
something like sling's(firing stones) or using Blow Darts(would mostly be condition inflincting rather than pure dmg) could be dependant on expertise/wilderness survival.
SpeedyKQ
I like the staff idea. Give rangers a basic weapon if they aren't into marksmanship.
But ranger staves shouldn't give an energy bonus like the caster staves. That would be unbalanced.
But ranger staves shouldn't give an energy bonus like the caster staves. That would be unbalanced.