Ranger weapons that aren't linked to Marksmanship

the thing is, why should give u a survivor-req bow any damage? xD you can always use a bow with other attributes... but without damage.

I didn't say you would use 2 handed daggers and a focus, throwing knives are always possible...
Strength/Tactics are like the primary attribute of Warriors. You are completely ignorant in the fact that you've left out expertise...Do you honestly think someone would use the high-cost trapping/BM skills without expertise?
Because you want mods to compliment your Attribute specialty...I don't think you've read any of these posts...

Why do you use a sword/axe/hammer when you go "stance" tank?

Because you still need a weapon!

Even a strictly healing monk has a max damage wand he can use to wand opponents! Not much damage - but it's something in a pinch. And the use is for the mods and requirements of his current build.

Because you always need damage as warrior.

A stance tank without dmg makes no sense at all. Your opponents can 100% ignore a tank without dmg. (Well only some stupid mobs could attack you...)

You gotta be kidding me...Stance tanks dont do damage...it's a PvE build that aggros the mob while casters stay out of his range and do damage/heal...please learn what you are talking about

omg please learn that you could use bows with other reqs in pvp too.

omg please learn that that's not the issue...using a bow with BM wouldnt help in any way
The suggestion is to add "weapons" that aid the use of beastmastery and trapping, these do NOT have to do damage and be at range like bows...

Eh... NO - All melee weapons follow their linked attribute as well, and there is no "staff/wand" reqs in the game.

I see what you're saying but warriors kind of work differently since their two "weapons" come from different attributes IE Shield from Tactics/Strength, Weapon from Mastery
But any caster class has a weapon AND focus that compliments his primary attributes where as warrior has only one for obvious reasons and the ranger has none

Your point being? You think Warriors are actually happy they need to take high strength/tactics! And what about assassins.

The rule IS weapon is linked to weapon attribute, it would make NO sense whatsoever to suddenly change that.

--

Btw. for the most part casters have to use greens/collectors items because most gold items DON'T follow the linked attibutes - you usually get several different attributes on one item making it utter useless.

my argument is:

sword/axe mastery: only sword/axe dmg skills

if you could use survivor req bows you would make dmg AND you would have the chance to use traps, healing, ..........

Assassins use critical to maintain energy, if they didnt have that they would be unable to keep using combos...
So why are wands and staves linked to magic attributes? those aren't "weapon masteries"

For the last time...it doesn't have to be BOWS, that do DAMAGE, they can be staves that simply give RECHARGE, ATTRIBUTE BOOST, or ENERGY...

All I have to say is - WOW!?!?!

Just take a look in the auctions and check out almost any gold casters weapon. The requirement is one of the casters attributes! The way it is for Rangers at this time would be as if a Warrior needed 9 points in Swordsmanship to use a hammer! If you put no points in Swordsmanship - you can still weild the hammer and get any benefits like the Fortitude Grip, or Sundering Hammer Haft (why though because you have no points in Hammer Mastery you are doing minimal damage).

For you, the Rangers have 1 choice! Use your weapon or use your skills!! That is the most misinformed idea I have ever come across. Every other profession can use any of their attributes for their weapons! And use their skills while their weapons do maximum damage.

Why does the Ranger not have something to wield that is based on Wilderness Survival or Beast Mastery?

Why does the Rangers weapons (read bows) not have a mod available for Wilderness Survival or Beast Mastery?

Why can every attribute be pumped up to 17 (20% of the time and not factoring the shrines in Cantha which are dependant on location and Favor of the Gods) except Beast Mastery and Wilderness Survival?

If you can answer that besides just saying "That's the way it is - too bad" or reducing to comparing to some poorly understood items or mechanics within the game - I will listen to you!

U don't get me or?

for healing you have to use tactics as warrior and energy management as elementalist.

as ranger you could use 16 survivor and spend all other points to 2.class attributes.

Cybah, could you give me an example build for a warrior in the PvE environment with an attribute breakdown and skillbar for one of the weapons masteries. This may make it easier for me to understand what you are trying to say.

As I understand it now: a Warrior can be perfectly setup with Strength (to increase Armor Penetration), Weapon Mastery (say Axe for an Axe Warrior), and Tactics for any skills in your skillbar that require Tactics like Healing Signet.

The most efficient use of Attribute points in this build would be:
11, 10, and 10 with 1 point left over, or
12, 10, and 8 with 1 point left over
not counting any Runes.

A Ranger going Beast Mastery; requires points in Expertise, Beast MAstery (it's the basis of the build), Wilderness Survival for the self healing (Troll Unguent), and Marksmanship (only item that has a Ranger Attribute requirement).

The most efficient use of Attribute points in this build would be:
11, 9, 8, and 8 with 1 point left over, or
12, 8, 8, and 7 with 1 point left over
not counting any Runes.

My Point Always Stays - Remove Weapon Req !!!

I want a whip, yes a whip! linked to beastmastery , it gives +12 energy, like a normal staff, it can have mods, it doesn't deal any dmg to enemy's. But when you target your pet and "attack" it it will come back to you, like a way to control your pet. Now this will help alot and who can argue that this is overpowerd?

diablo 2 anyone?

yeah it would be nice but i dont really mine the marksmenship thing after all most of the bow dmg skill or bow attack skills are all in the marks section.
/ no opnion really..

Well which beast master is using a bow? If you want to deal dmg with bow+pet you have to chose 2 attributes, would be imbalanced with only one requirement (with a beast master bow). Warriors can not deal 2 dmg types with 1 attribute either. Same at other classes.

Survivor req bow: look above.

Expertise req bow: well, there is no energy management req wand/staff right? :P


ps: In most builds I use 0 strength and only 7-8 tactics. So I'm able to put 12 in weapon and 10-11 in a 2.class attribute. When I play a tank, .... well I don't need much stances. they all recharge too slow. I use other great skills instead hehe.


edit: okay but with dmg to your pet and without dmg to mobs/players. xD agree.

Quoted to bring the topic back on target. Emphasis mine. The request is not only for SOMETHING (not necessarily a 15-28 bow) to deal damage in between skill recharges/needing to use skills, but also for things to hold that will give 20% chance of +1 [Survival/Beasts], etc

No one is asking for a bow...you seem to have a serious problem of not reading previous posts...
Staff + Spells, Staff + Rituals, Staff + Minions?
Energy storage wands/staves/focus? Soul Reaping? Inspiration Magic?
Are you playing the same game as I am?

there are energy storage wands/staves? no, only foci or not? same as soul reaping.


okay @mqstout:

casters get energy items

warriors/assassins get dmg items (and shields)


but rangers??? I can't imagine anything which is neither energy item nor weapon (bow).

maybe you guys didn't understand what I mean, I want a whip that has +12 energy, like a normal staff. It doesn't deal dmg to enemy's. But you can recall your pet with it, like you "attack" your pet and it will return to you. Something I always hated about pets is that I can't call them back to me, with a beastmaster's whip you can ( if they create this in the game)

U mean you call your pet instead of an mob and instead of fighting it runs back to you? Hm okay.

Well due to lag my half message (I've edited my text -.-) is not showing up here (the one from yesterday).

Rangers got enough energy due to expertise. And while using a whip you can't call mobs by shooting them (I know call is enough but shooting makes your pet run earlier).

Energy items are linked to casters and dmg/tank items are linked to melee classes.

What we need for beastmaster is something new... or nothing.

yep thats what I meant, one of the main things I hate about being a BM is that I can't call my pet back, and it keeps on running and dies. With a whip you could call it back to you to prevent lure mobs or prevent that it dies

The addition of some sort of linked pet command would be nice.

But the main point is that there has to be something that a Ranger can use that has a requirement from the Ranger primary attribute that is not Marksmanship. And the addition of mods that are not Marksmanship as well.

well on the subjects of new weapons and pets consider the main options u have while there is a pet.
1 - Weapon and a Pet
2 - Worthless Weapon and Buffed Pet
3 - All your own weapon and useless pet.

i just wanted to point that out.

On to something more useful. Warriors get knockdown gloves. Necro's Get Corpse Boots. Why not shove "Reduce Time to Set Trap" Gloves for Rangers. It's not a weapon, but do Sword and Axe Warriors use Stonefists? Also Do SS Necro's use Corpse boots, usauly no. Those armour parts are made for certain types of Builds. Why not instead of thinking, What new weapons a Ranger should get, why not Modified Armour.

Overall i think rangers are pretty balanced chars as is. They get thier choice in pet evolution. Useage of Bows. (consider this however, there are bow attacks for expertise, in real life u don't need marksmenship to use a crossbow) They have thier Traps for melee defence. Troll on its own is worth the wilderness atribute. You can deal condtions with a wilderness alone.

Thats what i have to say, im gonna get falmed. XD

No you don't. I recently made my ranger a marksman with 16 marksmanship. I use the read the wind prep, which isn't a wilderness survival prep, and two powerful bow attacks, one being elite(not going to be named, I like my build and I don't want it stolen). My bow isn't doing 10 damage a hit. It does about 60 damage to warriors and 100+ damage to casters(with the special bow attacks). Highest shot I scored off was at 171 on a ranger. Wilderness survival isn't necessary to be an effective ranger.

Now for weapons, I agree that there should be weapons for rangers. Druids staffs would be cool for wilderness survival. I don't agree however that bows should be able to be used by other attributes. After all marksmanship is the use of ranged weapons, not wilderness survival, and as so bows are ranged weapons and should require marksmanship only. You wouldn't find a sword with axe mastery would you?

As for a beast master weapon, I agree with what was said earlier, your pet is your weapon, you don't need one.

Since pets are going to gain DP in PvE - there goes your weapon argument!

No other weapon becomes less efficient - or dies when you are using it.

Yes to staves/wand+focus for BM and/or WS.
No to whips and other new weapons that would change gameplay too much.

Here's a solution that I don't think anyone brought up yet. How about a "flute" like weapon for beast master attrb? It can be made such that you cannot attack with this weapon, but when you target an enemy while weilding a flute, your pet acknowledge the command and attack that enemy.

This way, it will satisfy those who think the pet is already a weapon, while at the same time give better control for the pet (without affecting the balance of the game). Perhaps higher attrib can be designed such that the pet responds faster.

What does everyone think?

Rangers need a 15-22 req 9 Beastmastery/Wilderness Survival/Expertise weapon that can have a pre and post mod added to it.

One or two-handed, doesn't matter. If one-handed they need a focus/offhand item to wield that also has a req Beastmastery.Wilderness Survival/Expertise.

According to the "Pets are your weapon" posters - only Rangers can lose their weapon while in combat and only Rangers "weapons" gain DP now!

Wow, I can't believe i actually took the time to read most of the replies in this thread. Interesting stuff with lots of view points. Here's mine...


For those who say that it's already fair that rangers have the one weapon, c'mon... c'mooon... c'mooooon. Rangers MUST take marksmanship if they want to use a weapon with an att in their main profession. No other core class must do this (Tangent: Dirvishes/Assassins/Paragons have now fallen into this catagory too... so what of them???). A common and efficient skill split is 11/10/10.
---Warriors can do this easily with the one weapon, Str, and Tac. And I suppose the tank could go STR 12, TAC 12, Hamr 3, but it isn't likely. Most will go for an even split, and they can do that with one of three weapon choices.
---All other Casters use staves or wands/rods/whathaveyous. THey don't have an attribute in "Staff Mastery," but for some reason they still seem capable to wield a staff. I see no hame in adding a staff that does 11-22dmg and is linked to WS or BM. Memsers, Eles and Necros don't have wands that link with their special att, so Rangers shouldn't either.
---Daggers: These belong to Assassins. Let the Assassins keep them.
---Whips: If Anet is up to engineering a whole new weapon design unlike any other... still don't like the idea.
---Quarterstaff: I kind of like the idea. but unfortunately, it's a physical damage weapon and all physical damage weapons have a specific attribute, so in those terms, no to the quarter staff.

The best solution i can see is a simple staff, just like the eles and mesmers and necros and monks. 11-22dmg (earth damage maybe?--- in line with the whole nature thing?) Mods like +1 Attribute 20%, HSR{attribute} 20%, defense, shelter, warding. Maybe instead of energy they could give an armor bonus. Focii give energy focus to casters, shields give armor to warriors, so... it would be a nice comprimise. With the Max armor from a staff being 10 (like energy value). So it still does less damage and gives less protection than any warrior set (no thunder stolen), and it provides some added protection compared with the caster classes to illustrate the "rugedness" of the ranger.

On a roleplaying-conceptual note, there is little reason not to consider rangers as a potential caster class in some degree. Druids are a form of caster, and Rangers have that Druidic armor that grants extra energy.

In summation:
Ranger (Druid Concept)
Weapon:Staff

Suggested Example of Max Staff (Based on current mechanics)

Hale Druidic Staff of Wilderness Survival
Armor +10
Earth Dmg 11-22 (Req 9 Wilderness Survival)
Halves Casting time of WS Skills (20% chance)
Halves Recharge of Skills (20% chance)
Health +30
Wilderness Survival +1 (20% chance)

This is the equivilant to having a green staff of any other kind, or a collector's staff with Hale head and an Attribute wrapping. I sincerely believe that this would not unbalance the game. If you can see how this would unbalance the game, please explain in detail with examples.

Now I can make a lovely Ranger/Memser with 12/12/3, WS/EX/INSP. I don't really see that being an unfair advantage over an Ele with 12/12/3 Fir/ES/Insp.


Just my take.

/signed ---> support for staff with req of BN or WS
/unsigned ---> for a bow with reqs in anything other than Marksmanship

(I've spent too much time in the forum and not enough time playing in the last few hours... see you in town)

Notice this:
There are three main character types, let's call them... for example...
Fighters -> 80 AL
Rogues -> 70AL
Casters ->60AL

ONLY Caster classes have weapons linked to all four attributes. Rogue and Fighter classes don't.

You have to choose. If you want to deal more damage with other skills, you'll have to sacrifice damage deal with your bow.
If you want to deal the full damage with your bow, you'll have to fullfill its 'req'.
There are no hammers with 'Swordmanship' req. So there will never be bows with any req other than Marksmanship.

Do that with rangers and you'll have to do that with Assassins, Paragons and Dervishes.

But some staff/wand/scepter/quarterstaff/sling with 11-22 dmg or something like that for all those non-weapon attributes... well I don't like the idea very much, but I won't say NO if they add something like that.

Just a simple suggestion from a flavor perspective, if not Bows then Slings and Crossbows perhaps?

As far as the Caster vs Archer distinction...

Being friends with a pet doesn't require any sort of Mystical Energy, so I think it should have a ranged physical weapon such as the Sling.

Nature Survival seems more "casterly," being able to channel the energy of Nature. I'm liking the Wind or Earth staff for it. For the staff they would have to balance the energy into the current ranger builds. (Any trappers not use a +5 energy sword + however much energy they give if you don't have the attribute offhand? Trapping is one thing I havn't tried yet, but that seems to make the most sense at any rate. Just tack on the range and damage and mods I guess.)

Expertise is the odd bird, it doesn't seem likely to have anything to do with anything else. One thing it does have is bow attacks, so I suppose the crossbow would work.

/sign for weapons in all the niche areas of classes (ever try a ranged sin build using the sin skills? it's quirky)

/Not signed

That's like asking an axe or sword to have a tactics req. You need a weapon attribute to be able to deal more dmg with that weapon.

No.

Here's why: Dagger Mastery, Scythe Mastery, Spear Mastery, Marksmanship

A whip, A whip, thy kingdom for a Whip.

Please dont quote for me SPCA.

Perhaps a ranger could have a quiver as an offhand. The bow would stay as it is but the quiver could give the wilderness survival boosts etc that you all have mentioned.