Ranger weapons that aren't linked to Marksmanship - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 05:38 - 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakeman

So why should only RANGERS get special weapons that aren't linked to the combat attribute when other professions don't (besides spellcasters)? Not very fair if you ask me. Why are there no Deadly Arts weapons, for example?

because rangers are very unstable trying to boost all their attributes
if you have marksmanship then you need wilderness survival to do better dmg
and expertise to manage energy
then what if you want a pet
you end up loading tourself with runes the lower all your health
and what about your second profession attrbs

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:05 - 202

You know Heket beast masters use axes, why not have a green axe that's linked to Beast Mastery. It needn't even be max damage to compensate.

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:19 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

You know Heket beast masters use axes, why not have a green axe that's linked to Beast Mastery. It needn't even be max damage to compensate.

because axes are old
think new things
i still want sling shots or even boomerangs would be cool lol

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:22 - 204

So, you want a them to create a whole new weapon (it's clear that a bow without a marksmanship requirement would be dumb) for a class that has been around since the beginning? Excuse me while I laugh at you for even thinking that they would introduce a new weapon without a new profession...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazey vorstagg

You know Heket beast masters use axes, why not have a green axe that's linked to Beast Mastery. It needn't even be max damage to compensate.

*stops laughing* You know, monsters can have secondary professions. Maybe Heket beast masters have 9 Axe mastery.

*continues laughing*

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:28 - 205

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

So, you want a them to create a whole new weapon (it's clear that a bow without a marksmanship requirement would be dumb) for a class that has been around since the beginning? Excuse me while I laugh at you for even thinking that they would introduce a new weapon without a new profession...

*stops laughing* You know, monsters can have secondary professions. Maybe Heket beast masters have 9 Axe mastery.

*continues laughing*

it could happen its just suggesting ideas
if its been around a long time shouldn't they change it to make it funner
and y would they even make a new profession thats just stupid

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:43 - 206

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloody streak

it could happen its just suggesting ideas
if its been around a long time shouldn't they change it to make it funner
and y would they even make a new profession thats just stupid

*stops laughing*

*cough* Assassin *hack* Paragon *cough* Dervish *cough**hack*

*resumes laughing*

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:54 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Wrong.

Your skills in the beastmastery line are your weapons.

Just like an Elementalist that use Fire Magic can have a wand/staff with a requirement in Fire Magic that had bonuses to the Fire Magic attribute line, so should Rangers have weapons that use the other attribute lines as a requirement with bonuses/mods to that attribute line.

but guess what eles get a staff to go along with that yo need to start thinking
and all those people who are saying RANGERS NEED STAFFS its impossible rangers have no magic to use them. wilderness survival expertise and beast mastery arent magic the last time i checked so stop bringing it up

they need somthing like a Walking Stick.... but w8 that wouldnt be ranged (ranger)
like ive said before a sling shot is probly the best bet unless someone has somthing cooler

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 06:56 - 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

*stops laughing*

*cough* Assassin *hack* Paragon *cough* Dervish *cough**hack*

*resumes laughing*

what about them
and y are you laughing so much are you on morphine or somthin

Master Ketsu

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

middle of nowhere

Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy]

R/

07 Apr 2007 at 08:33 - 209

LoL Rangers need more weapons ?

Rangers are fine, we dont need any other weapons. While the Ranger class takes the most planning when it comes to attribute points, it really isnt that difficult when you get it down.

Trick to it is realizing that every 4 points in expertise is like the equivelant of 1 energy regen.

Besides, Expertise plus secondary = another weapon. Theres a reason why Rangers are just as good with a hammer as warriors are.

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

07 Apr 2007 at 11:54 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

LoL Rangers need more weapons ?

Rangers are fine, we dont need any other weapons. While the Ranger class takes the most planning when it comes to attribute points, it really isnt that difficult when you get it down.

Trick to it is realizing that every 4 points in expertise is like the equivelant of 1 energy regen.

Besides, Expertise plus secondary = another weapon. Theres a reason why Rangers are just as good with a hammer as warriors are.

I think you missed the point... infact i don't think you have a clue what the point even was because you were miles off.

As Wilderness Survival goes, it doesnt need a weapon, this stat should either be run with a staff purely for energy or with your bow for the heal/preps.

Beast Mastery really needs a weapon. Nothing that actually has attack skills for it, just something so you can at least hit things for some damage and maybe get some energy without having to use a damn staff all the time.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

07 Apr 2007 at 12:43 - 211

A staff is fine, and who says there's nothing magical about rangers? They somehow tame animals, protect them from harm, heal them over a distance, can bend down and create complex traps out of thin air (in seconds!), can summon spirits to influence the environment...and that's just in the beastmastery attribute!

If that's not magic, what is?

Beastmastery staff makes sense - and for anyone who says "rangers=range" I will have to beat some etymology into your thick skulls - to range is to travel over an area, as forest rangers do for example, and has NOTHING to do with the use of ranged weapons.

chembaron

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

Syracuse, NY

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

E/

07 Apr 2007 at 13:09 - 212

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungus Amongus

In this case your Beast is your weapon.

I need to agree. The pet is your weapon in the beast case. Otherwise, if you want a different weapon r/w or r/d. You really need marksmanship for bows; it just wouldn't make sense if you didn't. I'm not entirely sure why wild. surv. needs a staff. How do you justify it? Simply wanting energy for trapping isn't good enough.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

07 Apr 2007 at 13:56 - 213

The pet isn't your weapon any more than Fireball is the elementalist's weapon. The pet is a damage skill like any other.

Raxxman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

TEOC

W/N

07 Apr 2007 at 15:14 - 214

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I think you missed the point... infact i don't think you have a clue what the point even was because you were miles off.

As Wilderness Survival goes, it doesnt need a weapon, this stat should either be run with a staff purely for energy or with your bow for the heal/preps.

Beast Mastery really needs a weapon. Nothing that actually has attack skills for it, just something so you can at least hit things for some damage and maybe get some energy without having to use a damn staff all the time.

I don't think he missed the point at all.

Someone was complaining that Rangers should be the jack of all trades. Rangers are the jack of all trades (bar spell casting)

Theirs a good argument that Rangers are better at using touch skills over Necros, are just as good if not better thumpers than warriors. Originally they were very powerful spear chuckers, don't know if that's the case anymore.

So rangers aren't limited to bows to deal damage, trappers are insanely powerful just dropping traps, and adding a weapon to the damage would push it well over the edge.

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 16:41 - 215

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

A staff is fine, and who says there's nothing magical about rangers? They somehow tame animals, protect them from harm, heal them over a distance, can bend down and create complex traps out of thin air (in seconds!), can summon spirits to influence the environment...and that's just in the beastmastery attribute!

If that's not magic, what is?

Beastmastery staff makes sense - and for anyone who says "rangers=range" I will have to beat some etymology into your thick skulls - to range is to travel over an area, as forest rangers do for example, and has NOTHING to do with the use of ranged weapons.

lol i think you need to think before you speak rangers have nothing magical about them think about all the people in zoos who tame and "heal" animals
and if you say "WELL THE RANGER DOES IT IN 10 SECONDS" think about it would Anet seriously have the casting time to tame a pet be a week
*starts laughing* and the same goes for traps its not going to be 10 minutes to place a trap

so apparently juging by the ranger itself staffs = no

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 16:44 - 216

ROTFLMAO yes he did miss the point

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

07 Apr 2007 at 17:04 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloody streak

lol i think you need to think before you speak rangers have nothing magical about them think about all the people in zoos who tame and "heal" animals
and if you say "WELL THE RANGER DOES IT IN 10 SECONDS" think about it would Anet seriously have the casting time to tame a pet be a week
*starts laughing* and the same goes for traps its not going to be 10 minutes to place a trap

so apparently juging by the ranger itself staffs = no

So tell me, how do you heal an animal instantly from 100 feet away, protect it from harm by calling out a shout, bring it back to life when it has died, summon spirits to change the environment and all that without magic?

*starts laughing*

I've got to go to more zoos apparently.

Illuminator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Elysium of Angels

W/R

07 Apr 2007 at 17:14 - 218

You know that your pet is a "weapon" and one of the ranger strengths is to be able to use two weapons.
Sooooo I suggest if rangers gets another weapon then Paragons should have a new weapon High-pitched opera voice and Dervishes should have skirt-flails and Assassins should have Needles to insert them into your neck and paralyze the victim like in all asian movies..

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 17:22 - 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

So tell me, how do you heal an animal instantly from 100 feet away, protect it from harm by calling out a shout, bring it back to life when it has died, summon spirits to change the environment and all that without magic?

*starts laughing*

I've got to go to more zoos apparently.

you like zoos? im sorry
its just a dam game and people just want a new ranger weapon so calm down
and first of all rangers dont have shouts i think your mixing it up with paragons
second how does anything bring somthing back to life
like a warrior no mgical attrbs and yet it has rez
think about what your saying

Illuminator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Elysium of Angels

W/R

07 Apr 2007 at 17:23 - 220

Rangers got call of protection, call of haste, symbiotic bond etc and those are shouts

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 17:24 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

You know that your pet is a "weapon" and one of the ranger strengths is to be able to use two weapons.
Sooooo I suggest if rangers gets another weapon then Paragons should have a new weapon High-pitched opera voice and Dervishes should have skirt-flails and Assassins should have Needles to insert them into your neck and paralyze the victim like in all asian movies..

ok so if you have a pet what do you do just stand around there and have it attack?
and it doesnt have a problem with a sin para or derv
and if it does y is there no thread

Illuminator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Elysium of Angels

W/R

07 Apr 2007 at 17:28 - 222

You could let it attack or you could make a build that involves both of you fighting.

But I am sorry, since your proffesion is E/mo you are probably just used to 16 fire magic and 13 energy storage instead of spreading your attribute point over 3 or sometimes 4 attributes.

Program Ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Carebear Club [wuv]

R/

07 Apr 2007 at 17:29 - 223

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloody streak

and first of all rangers dont have shouts i think your mixing it up with paragons

Ranger's have had shouts since the game came out~

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloody streak

second how does anything bring somthing back to life
like a warrior no mgical attrbs and yet it has rez

Res Sig?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloody streak

think about what your saying

Speak for yourself..

Thanks,
Pr0gram~

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 17:30 - 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Rangers got call of protection, call of haste, symbiotic bond etc and those are shouts

oh woops lol

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 17:36 - 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

You could let it attack or you could make a build that involves both of you fighting.

But I am sorry, since your proffesion is E/mo you are probably just used to 16 fire magic and 13 energy storage instead of spreading your attribute point over 3 or sometimes 4 attributes.

umm no this guys in pre sear trying to get the title
so theres no other choice to spread ur attrbs out if you want to fill up the skill bar
as you can see by the avatar

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

07 Apr 2007 at 17:38 - 226

Quote:

Originally Posted by Program Ftw

Ranger's have had shouts since the game came out~

Res Sig?

Speak for yourself..

Thanks,
Pr0gram~

i realize that
and of course it would b rez sig wat else wud it b
and everyone has the right to have an opinion
like i respect that illuminator doesnt want new stuff in the game cuz its already fun the way it is

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

07 Apr 2007 at 19:41 - 227

To be perfectly clear:

The pet is not your weapon. If that were the case no caster class should have a staff, since they have spells. Spells are their weapons is the equivalent statement.

The pet is a skill, and one that deals damage. Even maxed it only delivers in the range of 13 DPS, comparable to many skills, and well below what any weapon deals. If a caster can put down spirits and wand, or cast an AoE and wand, or put some degen out and wand a ranger sure as heck deserves the ability to trap and wand (or equivalent) as well as use a pet and wand.

The lore arguments fail, since rangers are clearly at least somewhat magical, summoning spirits would indicate that. The "you have a weapon, the bow" argument is garbage - it'd be like me saying that earth magic doesn't need a staff, you have fire staves. Putting in bows with other requirements would be imbalanced, since you could benefit from arow preparations while dealing full damage, not cool, so it has to be a non-bow.

Staves make sense. Real rangers (e.g. forest rangers) often carry walking sticks/staves, and a mystical ranger could sensibly carry a mystical staff. The damage from staves, at 11-22 per attack with 1.75 attacks per second works out to about 10 DPS, so when combined with a pet's auto attacks you end up with (at 16 Beastmastery) around 23 DPS from the auto attacks.

Well, the melee weapons are in the 20-24 DPS range. The bows are a bit lower, around 17 for the faster bows - but they can gain preparations to bring them up - and those stats for swords etc don't take up a skill slot - that's base attacks; this minimally takes one (and generally 2 skill slots, since you want to be able to recover your pet if it dies.

Would it be too much power? I doubt it. Right now a ranger of mine is playing around with Communing/Beastmastery and finding it interesting, but despite having a staff doing 11-22 damage and a pet running around I'm no killing machine. It's nice damage, sure, and I don't see it as broken to want to bring a pet+the attribute's auto attack up to the range of a weapon's. Using 2 skill slots to have the attacking power of a regular weapon hardly seems abusive.

So - if BM had a staff you'd get: for 1 or two skill slots, the attack power of a melee weapon when combining your staff and the pet. Doesn't seem absurd to me, if you can't manage 23 DPS with 2 skill slots and a wand using most casters I'd say there's a problem, and a warrior gets that DPS from a weapon alone, with no skills used.

Illuminator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Elysium of Angels

W/R

07 Apr 2007 at 23:10 - 228

only 13 DPS? yeeaaa and the pet attacks arent spammable..

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

08 Apr 2007 at 00:36 - 229

The pet attacks are skills. Skills deal damage. If you think the damage is good off the skills think again - paying 5 energy for 17 or 20 damage isn't really that great. Saying, "yeeaaa and the pet attacks aren't spammable" is ludicrous and misses the point. Sure, you can deal damage by using conditional skills - the condition being that your pet is alive and is able to hit the opponent. At which point you pay pretty expensive costs for the bonus damage - if Fireball did only 29 damage for 10 energy, with bonus 29 damage if the target is below 50% health you wouldn't brag about it being "spammable" - pet attacks do small amounts of damage really compared to other skills.

You have likely never played a BM, and thus have no idea what you are talking about. Every class has skills they can use to up damage. A skill that is useable every 5 seconds to add 30 damage is a 6 DPS skill, and is hardly out of line with other skills, hence the issue comes back to the pet without a weapon being purely inferior to other setups. As it happens, most BMs use a weapon from another attribute, but only because it's the only feasible way really. I wouldn't object to staves/batons for deadly arts either for example - it's possible to make a deadly arts/shadow arts assassin, but they too lack a weapon.

I won't say there aren't advantages to using a pet - you can deal damage from two sources at once, you typically have expertise reductions on costs, and in PvE it can soak some damage for you. But it's ludicrous to state that because the ranger's pet skills deal extra damage that it's all fine - every class can deal damage via skills.

Dougal Kronik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ontario, Canada

Glengarry Fencibles

R/

08 Apr 2007 at 05:10 - 230

This could be a great addition for all professions that use pets, as Primary of Secondary Ranger.

Why would anyone not want to have more options to play any character. The weapons required from other Ranger attribute lines would in no way be unbalancing, or gamebreaking.

Waiting for the day Anet realizes this and gives Rangers more choices.

shirosae

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

UK

Moon Unit Carby

R/Me

08 Apr 2007 at 15:03 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

if Fireball did only 29 damage for 10 energy, with bonus 29 damage if the target is below 50% health you wouldn't brag about it being "spammable" - pet attacks do small amounts of damage really compared to other skills.

Pet attacks are also mostly* not AoE, like Fireball/SF/almosteverythingelseever is. I tend to use the pet more like i play Mesmer, by dealing with a particular dangerous target while the rest of the party is doing whatever.

You win the thread, regardless.

*All but Melandru's Assault, which does +10-58 adjacent, if it hits an enchantment, for 10 energy (5, if you put 12+1 into expertise, leaving you with 3+1 for Marks).

The change to Otyugh's Cry is awesome though. I've never had so much fun with those Nightfall Ranger mobs.

I also think that weapons for BM and WS aren't really out of the question at all. Taste-wise, i think maybe throwing axes for BM (shortbow range), and staves for WS. Stave-like mod slots, HSC/HSR/att+1 etc. Beastmaster focus too?

I'm thinking that the BM setup could be a bit more like Paragon is now, in that you'd have a weapon+shield combo. The shield would help offset the ridiculous lack of space for self-defensive skills in an outright BM build, and having no throwing-axe skills would prevent the axe from being a damage issue (but it could have a zealous mod!).

My mind keeps going back to Bows being so slow compared to Spears, and i feel like adding weapons like this might bring that into focus. I digress.

What kind of damage should these weapons do though? Physical could be boosted with Orders, Elemental could trigger all number of Ele hexes. I don't think this is exploitable enough to worry about?

I also think it'd be nice if Sins and Dervishes got weapons for Deadly Arts and Wind Prayers, purely so that running those lines was more feasible. Half-range Throwing daggers sounds about right.

Illuminator

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2007

Elysium of Angels

W/R

08 Apr 2007 at 15:40 - 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

The pet attacks are skills. Skills deal damage. If you think the damage is good off the skills think again - paying 5 energy for 17 or 20 damage isn't really that great. Saying, "yeeaaa and the pet attacks aren't spammable" is ludicrous and misses the point. Sure, you can deal damage by using conditional skills - the condition being that your pet is alive and is able to hit the opponent. At which point you pay pretty expensive costs for the bonus damage - if Fireball did only 29 damage for 10 energy, with bonus 29 damage if the target is below 50% health you wouldn't brag about it being "spammable" - pet attacks do small amounts of damage really compared to other skills.

You have likely never played a BM, and thus have no idea what you are talking about. Every class has skills they can use to up damage. A skill that is useable every 5 seconds to add 30 damage is a 6 DPS skill, and is hardly out of line with other skills, hence the issue comes back to the pet without a weapon being purely inferior to other setups. As it happens, most BMs use a weapon from another attribute, but only because it's the only feasible way really. I wouldn't object to staves/batons for deadly arts either for example - it's possible to make a deadly arts/shadow arts assassin, but they too lack a weapon.

I won't say there aren't advantages to using a pet - you can deal damage from two sources at once, you typically have expertise reductions on costs, and in PvE it can soak some damage for you. But it's ludicrous to state that because the ranger's pet skills deal extra damage that it's all fine - every class can deal damage via skills.

I play BM on my ranger and everything is just fine as it is.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

08 Apr 2007 at 16:12 - 233

I happen to play BM myself as well (shocking, I know), and object to being forced to carry a weapon from another profession/attribute, when pretty much anyone else gets a weapon/offhand linked to their attribute. Most BM users end up with a weapon since they shoot their damage output otherwise, so you see thumpers, packhunters, bunny reapers and so on - all using either a bow or the weapon from another class. Why should they be forced to do this?

Anyway, there is plenty of support for the idea, and ANet can figure out balance issues if they feel there are problems. I still like the idea of a hybrid shield/focus as a totem - an offhand with +8 AL and +6 energy as its base.

Hobbs

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Organised Spam [OS]

W/

08 Apr 2007 at 16:29 - 234

For WS, what ranger doesn't use a staff while trapping anyway? Making them able to do max damage wouldn't unbalance the game. Making BM have a melee weapon also wouldn't make them overpowered, we have thumpers don't we. As previously mention expertise is fine as it already has an inherent bonus.

My $0.02

Scown-dog

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada-nuff said

Peace Machine Grrr [DiE]-with Kanwulf until I feel the boot

W/N

08 Apr 2007 at 16:56 - 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor

Rangers need to have javelins and pikes and spears, etc.

And how bout instead of rangers we call them amazons!

Crazyvietguy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

[Njk]

Rt/

08 Apr 2007 at 17:09 - 236

I definently agree that rangers should have some sort of "other weapon". I like the idea of a walking staff that follows the Wilderness Survival line. While I understand that WS and BM should be used in conjunction with Marksmanship there are many WS skills that dont have much to do with arrows (traps).

Assassins should get throwing knives too

And.. Dervishes get staves?

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

08 Apr 2007 at 22:53 - 237

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

To be perfectly clear:

The pet is not your weapon. If that were the case no caster class should have a staff, since they have spells. Spells are their weapons is the equivalent statement.

The pet is a skill, and one that deals damage. Even maxed it only delivers in the range of 13 DPS, comparable to many skills, and well below what any weapon deals. If a caster can put down spirits and wand, or cast an AoE and wand, or put some degen out and wand a ranger sure as heck deserves the ability to trap and wand (or equivalent) as well as use a pet and wand.

The lore arguments fail, since rangers are clearly at least somewhat magical, summoning spirits would indicate that. The "you have a weapon, the bow" argument is garbage - it'd be like me saying that earth magic doesn't need a staff, you have fire staves. Putting in bows with other requirements would be imbalanced, since you could benefit from arow preparations while dealing full damage, not cool, so it has to be a non-bow.

Staves make sense. Real rangers (e.g. forest rangers) often carry walking sticks/staves, and a mystical ranger could sensibly carry a mystical staff. The damage from staves, at 11-22 per attack with 1.75 attacks per second works out to about 10 DPS, so when combined with a pet's auto attacks you end up with (at 16 Beastmastery) around 23 DPS from the auto attacks.

Well, the melee weapons are in the 20-24 DPS range. The bows are a bit lower, around 17 for the faster bows - but they can gain preparations to bring them up - and those stats for swords etc don't take up a skill slot - that's base attacks; this minimally takes one (and generally 2 skill slots, since you want to be able to recover your pet if it dies.

Would it be too much power? I doubt it. Right now a ranger of mine is playing around with Communing/Beastmastery and finding it interesting, but despite having a staff doing 11-22 damage and a pet running around I'm no killing machine. It's nice damage, sure, and I don't see it as broken to want to bring a pet+the attribute's auto attack up to the range of a weapon's. Using 2 skill slots to have the attacking power of a regular weapon hardly seems abusive.

So - if BM had a staff you'd get: for 1 or two skill slots, the attack power of a melee weapon when combining your staff and the pet. Doesn't seem absurd to me, if you can't manage 23 DPS with 2 skill slots and a wand using most casters I'd say there's a problem, and a warrior gets that DPS from a weapon alone, with no skills used.

ugh finnally someone understands what the problem is

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

08 Apr 2007 at 22:58 - 238

assassins = throwning knives, needles, ninja stars ,etc. (deadly arts)
rangers = walking stick for WS, maybe somthing else for BM
dervish = has a scythe that does slashing dmg right well they should have those sticks with a point on them (like a spear except you dont throw it you just stab them with it [peircing dmg])

Lydz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Cape Town, South Africa

The Crazy Dragons [TCD]

E/Mo

08 Apr 2007 at 23:05 - 239

I don't think rangers should have other weapons/weapons linked to other attributes. If you choose marksmanship, good for you! You can use your weapon as the primary source of damage. If you choose beastmaster, the pet IS your weapon. If you get bored "standing around" apparently doing nothing then you shouldn't be playing a beastmaster in the first place. I personally don't think you stand around doing nothing on top of it...you choose when the pet uses the skills.

Yes, elementalists' primary source of damage is spells, and they do have weapons linked to their attributes, but those weapons aren't of much use to them. I certainly am not going to kill a ranger with my staff and no spells, because I don't have any skills that relate to my staff (minus the Conjure X spells).

Rangers are fine as they are...and can deal good damage

bloody streak

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

SB

slayers players

E/Mo

08 Apr 2007 at 23:54 - 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

I don't think rangers should have other weapons/weapons linked to other attributes. If you choose marksmanship, good for you! You can use your weapon as the primary source of damage. If you choose beastmaster, the pet IS your weapon. If you get bored "standing around" apparently doing nothing then you shouldn't be playing a beastmaster in the first place. I personally don't think you stand around doing nothing on top of it...you choose when the pet uses the skills.

Yes, elementalists' primary source of damage is spells, and they do have weapons linked to their attributes, but those weapons aren't of much use to them. I certainly am not going to kill a ranger with my staff and no spells, because I don't have any skills that relate to my staff (minus the Conjure X spells).

Rangers are fine as they are...and can deal good damage

the pet isnt your weapon its a spell
(a weapon i GW is somthing you weild