Ranger weapons that aren't linked to Marksmanship

slingshots with expertise req!

Bows should remain linked to marksmanship, because they are MARKSMAN weapons. Darts, slingshots, ect would not work because they are Marksman weapons. But if you really must have a staff, what sort of mods would go on it? You can already get a staff with +20 energy (15 of that is unconditional), with a 20% mod for all spells or a largely useless 10% mod. Just add a fortitude mod to that and you've got your beastmaster staff. You won't do damage with it, but your BEAST is your weapon.

This makes as much sense as having swords that don't require swordsmanship, axes that don't require axe mastery, hammers that don't require hammer mastery, daggers that don't require dagger mastery, spears that don't require spear mastery, scythes that don't require scythe mastery...

And why not make scythes that require energy storage?

/notsigned

Weapon attributes are for those weapons only.

Hmmmm....Who keeps digging up all these incredibly old threads recently?


/sorta signed for weapons without marksmanship requirements

We could have weapons for beast mastery, but then again, our pet is sorta our weapon for that. We could have a weapon for expertise, but that is sort of like a paragon having a leadership weapon. Wait, do paragons have leadership weapons? If they do, then ignore what I said about paragons. What I mean is it's sort of like Assassins having critical hits requirment weapons. It would be nice, but it doesn't exactly make sense to have.

Fime, bows and marksmanship are linked, just like swords and swordsmanship. That's all good. But what does a bow have to do with controlling a bear?

And you knobs who keep saying "in this case the pet is the weapon"
... does your sword or wand die? Do you have to resurect your hammer or be weaponless? Hellz no. YOur pet is not your weapon... it is your pet.

If anything, it is more like a skill. Charm animal = Illusion of weakness. It goes one and stays on until someone kills it. (not exactly, but you get the point).

THis thread should have died a long time ago when A-net saw the light and implimented a staff for beast masters... oh, we are still waiting for them to wake up and actually read this thread.

In the meantime, I suppose my trapper will continue to use a (insert attribute of caster class here) staff, without meeting the req. I still get the energy/staff head&wrapping mods. NO recharge bonus, but whatever.

Elementalists have energy storage weapons, Necros have soul reaping weapons, Ritualists have spawning weapons, Monks have divine favor weapons, etc.

Warriors have strength shields, (do paragons have leadership shields?)

ANyhoo, you get the idea. Just cause it's your prime attribute, doesn't mean you can't have a weapon for it.

Can someone else come up with a reason why rangers shouldn't have some kind of weapon (other than a bow) that requires one of their other attributes?

Rangers already have several different kinds of bow, each with different ranges, firing arcs, accuracies and DPS ratings. That gives them a lot more realistic weapon choice than other classes, as they don't have to spread points around more than one attribute to be able to use each weapon type. When it comes to pets, they can't make up for being a weapon in my opinion as the AI on them is horrible to say the least. I see pets more as an emergency meatshield than as a weapon.

Though having said that, it might be nice to get a different weapon type for rangers if ANet ever decides that the weapon selection available for rangers isn't enough as it is. [DS2 Rip-off]Perhaps a throwing weapon with a pitiful DPS, a much shorter range and the ability to ricochet to a second nearby target whenever you make a critical hit with it.[/DS2 Rip-off]

/kind of signed

Bows without marksmanship is like fish without water. Then again, it would be interesting to have other kind of weapons available for the ranger, kind of like warrior has a sword, hammer and axe. Bow, slingshot and dagger, maybe? All of them projectile weapons, but with different ranges. Slingshot would go nicely with Wilderness Survival or Beast Mastery I think.

On many occassion I will take my Ranger out as a Beast Master. The damage output from them can be extremely high. If done right you can take out pretty much anything and you stay nice and safe. There have been many times where my pet is in the thick of things and I am sitting at a nice safe distance where I can not get hit and let my pet do all the work.

There is nothing the other professions have that can do the same thing. Now if they ever put into the game the direct ability to control pets then that is going to rock. As is I believed that ANet only implemented DP for PvP and not for PvE, though I know they are going to do it. So the argument that your sword/axe/whatever does not get DP or dies holds a lot of ground then.

I do not see the point of having a Wilderness Survival weapon. Most of the times when someone runs Wilderness Survival they are running a trapping build. Those do a very nice amount of damage already and do not need the little extra damage that a max damage weapon would do.

/sort of signed

I'm still waiting for a Ranger non Marksmanship weapon with a mod for +1 Beast Mastery/Wilderness Survival/ or Expertise.

Why are Rangers the only profession that can only increase one attribute (Marksmanship) over 16 for up to 20% of the time.

just need weapons for beast mastery and wilderness survival, besides if u run high expertise, ull be pretty certain to run another line high up that has weapons..

and crossbow or similer would be cool, and whip (female mesmer with whip anyone? )

/signed

Like I'd noted in another thread, one time I was running an experimental PvP beastmaster build, holding a staff. Had a teammate quit before the match started, saying "touchers are f***ing pathetic." If I'd had an evident ranger-type weapon, maybe I wouldn't be mistaken for a necro-wannabe. (And I'd look a little cooler.)

did you noticed all elementalist , ritualist etc are using the staff most for the bonus and not as primary damage output?

did you notice there are no sword , leadership , critical hit,mysticism weapon?

How about, instead of new weapons for non-markmanship ranger attributes, rangers have the option of adding inscriptions that give +1 wilderness survival or beast mastery, etc. to already existing weapons? Doesn't everyone win that way? A-net doesn't have to go out of their way making a whole new line of weapons, while people still obtain the bonuses they desire.

And I'm glad that people have pointed out quite thoroughly that pets are a weapon in and of themselves. That being said,
1) Pet upgrades/weapon modifiers (evolutions) are not available for PvP use. This is unfair. To show your support for unlockable pet evolutions, you can sign here.
2) Pets, like weapons, have/need modifiers or upgrades. They already have evolution status, which change the damage dealt and total health. This is like a 15%>50 inscription for a sword with a pommel of defense(the extra health acts like armor for you, since the pet can take more damage). However, while evolution status takes care of many potential modifiers, pets do not have even close to:
-the equivalent of a "Master of My Domain (attribute+1)" inscription,
-the equivalent of a hilt or haft or tang or snythe, an upgrade to change the pet's damage type (I know they either deal slashing or piercing, but in addition to that)

So here's what all I think should be added:
-"Master of My Domain" inscription equivalents which add +1 wilderness survival, beast mastery, or expertise and are applicable to all items, like the "measure for measure" and "show me the money" inscriptions (I'll explain why they should be applicable to all items later). These inscriptions would add +1, 20% to specifically wilderness survival, beast mastery, or expertise, as opposed to adding +1, 20% to the item's attribute. On a broader scale, inscriptions like this could be made for all attributes that do not have weapons associated with them, like mysticism or shadow arts. The inscriptions would would be specifically for the attributes they raise, regardless of the item they're applied to. Since these items would be more specific, they would thus harder to find, reflecting the more specific and harder to find build they would most likely be used in coordination with.
As I said earlier, these inscriptions should be applicable to all inscribable items--weapons, arcane and melee, foci, and shields. Unlike "master of my domain" inscriptions, these inscriptions would be not necessarily be used in coordination with the item's actual attribute; for example, a trapper might apply an inscription of wilderness survival +1, 20% to a staff to obtain the wilderness survival bonus and to obtain extra energy. Likewise, an escape ranger using necromancer touch spells might want to carry both a wand and a focus, but also want a bonus for expertise, or may want a bonus for both expertise and blood magic. Also, since you can't apply multiple swordsmanship +1 pommels or items of that nature, the inscription bonuses would be made non-stackable.

-Add inscriptions that are the equivalent of hilts, strings, snythes, tangs, and hafts, minus vampiric, furious, and zealous, for pet damage. The inscriptions would then increase the condition duration/armor penetration of pets' attacks. I think it'd be best for these inscriptions to be green, and thus applicable to all weapons (arcane and martial), so that all classes can control the pet damage, which reflects the potential use of pets throughout all classes.

I'd also like to note that I'm pretty sure this wouldn't really make trapping rangers any more powerful, either. Trappers already carry staves for extra energy and armor; they would just be trading out the extra protection or energy for an occasional boost in power.

Sorry if any of this has already been suggested somewhere throughout this post, but there are nine pages in this thread and I didn't feel like reading through all of them. I looked through the Index of Ideas and used the search feature and didn't find any threads suggesting what I just suggested.

WHOO*breath of relief*. Now that I've written all of that, I'm considering making it into its own thread. What do you all think?

Um, since you're only putting points in Exp/BM/WS, why would you WANT a bow anyways? You'll do like.. 2 damage with it. O_o what is the purpose of this thread? Giving Beastmasters whips? Oh, I can already imagine all the female rangers in presearing dancing naked and shouting '100GOLD FOR ME TO WHIP YOU, IM HAWT LAWLZ' in trade. No thanks ;.;

Does your sword deal 40+ damage? Can it inflict poison, bleeding, crippled, dazed, interupt, attack 25% faster for 30 seconds AND cause knockdown with only swordsmanship skills? Didn't think so.

If your pet dies too easily, try thinking and use the some of the BEAST MASTERY skills like Call of Protection, Otyugh's Cry, or Symbiotic Bond, all of which are non elites.

Because a ranger doesn't have any other atributes. Don't expect them to add another atribute to a core class just because a few people want to use a sling on their ranger.

Furthermore, marksmanship isn't a ranger's primary atribute, expertise is. In fact, NONE of the physical damage weapons require a primary atribute.

Also, you're getting spell-casters (Necro, Monk, Elementalist, Mesmer, Ritualist) mixed up with physical damage dealers (Warrior, Ranger, Assassin, Paragon, Dervish), please stop.

Ok the problem here is that ragners need a weaopn linked to their other atributes(BM and WS). Bows are for marksmanship, trappers already use staffs, since they would not have marksmanship why give them a bow? it sounds like asking for hammer skills to work with an axe. Anet needs just to create BM/WS staffs and the problem would be solved.

Basicaly you're asking for an advantage that the other classes dont get. You have a limited number of attribute points to spend but want more.

You have a choice to max out beast mastery or marksmanship, or put most of your points in those two at the exclusion of expertise and wilderness survival. Wars have to chose between strength, tactics and there weapon. Yes they have both strength and tactic shields, but that still forces them to chose between the offencive bost of strength skills or the defencive tactics. They cant have both without spending fewer point in there weapon.


With a maxed out pet and a maxed out weapon the ranger can deal a substantial amount of pain out, but you also want to gain the advantage of reduced skill cost of expertise and the healing/traping of wilderness??

This is what we call unbalanced.


There is one thing I would support that make much more sence than a new weapon....Add +10 energy mods for bows, scythes and hammers to equal the energy bost of staffs. After all they are all two handed weapons and should beable to gain +10 rather than just +5 of a one handed weapon.

While not the perfect solusion this seams more viable and practical!

I've read most of the posts here and I don't think many of the posters have read past the first comment because it all has to do with "NO BOWS FOR NON-MARKSMANSHIP ATTRIBUTES." I think we've established that.

Staffs and their two-piece counterparts, as much as some arguers have been denouncing, wouldn't have the same setup as in casters. In the case of a beast master, the weapon would be sort of a filler, a simple staff with weak attack that might add energy and skill recharge for BM. It wouldn't be any substantial damage-dealing weapon, just as a caster's staff isn't their main attack. I personally think that, with a BM staff on and a pet with them, a beast master's default attack would be that of their pet, or as many have said "their main weapon." This would allow better control of the pet which would logically have a bond of some type with its ranger anyway. The only thing required would be that they stay within a certain range to use their skills. Their default attack could still go on (ex. the ranger took a hit from Deep Freeze and his pet can still attack but won't use attack skills until his master is within range.

Secondly, for a WS ranger the staff would be something even more defensive like a staff with a small AR. Throw that idea out if you like, but I could see a warrior/ranger using wilderness survival to cure himself of negative conditions and heal his friends with Healing Spring - barring the easy interrupt of course. It wouldn't be so cut and dry with w/mo's that way.

If any of this seems unusual and absurd, just think of a druid. I don't think that if I asked all my nerd friends to describe a druid that many if any of them would have the word "bow" in that description. Druids in guild wars would definitely fall under the ranger class but their use always depends on a hybrid with the monk or ritualist classes.

Finally, the idea of survival knives isn't too bad but would have to be looked at long and hard so as not to make it like the assassin's daggers. Regardless, however, it would have to be low damage but would obviously benefit from skills like Apply Poison. It's controlling attribute would definitely be WS, but that is simply my view.

Agreed there.

The only other thing I would see as viable is small, one handed crossbows (still tied to Marksmanship, less damage, slower attack rate) and the addition of Expertise/BM ranger off-hands.

I'm going to disagree with adding more weapons to a ranger's aresenal. As it is, paragons, assassins, and dervishs are also required to put points into a weapon-only skill line in order to fight.

Why not add a few staffs etc. for those classes too? I wouldn't expect to see every paragon with a spear, every assassin with a dagger, every dervish with a scythe. Is there only one weapon that youcan lead with? Only one weapon you can assassinate with? Only one you can spin with? (Cyclone Axe?) And the Mysticism Healers Probably wouldn't want a scythe, so why make their weapon focus on healing or protection? I could even see a monk with a Heavenly weapon of Balthazar.

Use a hammer or use a spear if you don't like bows.

Expertise is the most powerful attribute of a ranger, not marksmanship.

Rangers don't need another weapon because they already have an excellent ability to wield weapons of OTHER classes very effectively.

A lot of rangers use staffs for trapping because of the energy etc, so making a staff for expertise/wilderness survival would be pretty sweet, then you could pour attribute points into either of those, rather than marksmanship all the time

It would be nice but I think it would offset the ability of the other characters, gw has been keeping character specific to certain attributes in order to maintain and fair gaming environment and in order to do that you cant really give too much variation to all the classes.

I think that +10 energy weapons are a stretch from what a ranger is supposed to be because ranger do combine that extra energy with expertise and more energy when you using less than everyone else is a major advantage.

I do however agree with assigning another similar weapons (whip was cool) to another attributes in the rangers arsenal. I think every class should have at least 2 weapon choice they should be able to use without having to be a a different secondary.

I had to sleep on this one, there are some good points on both sides.

1: Pets are a beastmaster's weapon only as much as spells are an elementalist or mesmer's weapon. It takes a constant energy output to use them, between call of protection (admittedly a long-lasting buff) and the attack skills. I don't see why adding a weapon for beastmastery would be unbalancing, although not a bow, and probably the same damage as a caster staff.

2: Traps are similar to spells in the same way. Most trappers use +energy staves to begin with, speccing just enough into a secondary not to use that secondary, but to get the benefit of a staff. The marksmanship requirement on all bows would be closest to having all elementalist weapons have a water magic requirement for the energy bonus: It forces people to spec into something that's irrelevant to their build, just to get any benefit from the weapons they can use.

I don't know about Wilderness survival. I like the idea of adding new staves for them, but not +energy inherent ones. The +armor inherent mods someone mentioned a few pages back seem like a good compromise. A trapper can use a WS staff just to have a staff that doesn't require an attribute line they don't want or need, although I'm certain some will still spec into a secondary line just to get +energy from one.

Most of the peope here are not asking for bows linked to beastmastery or WS. Bows are for marksmanship, like swords are for swordsmanship, and people keep missing or ignoring that point. What the people signing this want are weapons, probably similar to caster staves/wands/offhands, that can actually improve BM and WS skills, with the half recharge, +1 attribute, or maybe even new mods.

/signed for staves, wands, and offhands for WS and BM. Same mechanics as caster weapons, with linked attribute bonuses.

Paragons, Dervishes, assassins all have the same problem, true, but they're different classes. I can't see an assassin ignoring dagger/crit for shadow or deadly arts entirely, but I have seen dervishes and paragons with no weapon skills, concentration on motivation, command, or earth/wind prayers. Each class should really get its own thread, since each class is different.

Rangers, Assasins and Dervishes, the three 'rogue' classes:

They are martial weapon users.
They have all a basic armor 70.
They all use two handed weapons.
They do not have any weapon or offhand item for the other attributes.
All have attack skills that use always energy, never adrenaline.

There is not item to acompay a hammer, because they are two handed.

They are supposed to use only that weapon. If you want to change that, you'll have to change the secondary and use a weapon for a secondary.
Two Handed Martial weapons have no offhand.
Martial weapon usesr use only martial weapons.

/signed /signed

/signed if it is balanced, unique, and appropriate for each attribue: e.g., 3 different reagent types (these would not be used up one by one; you would just get a reagent and it would stay there forever, like a weapon) for expertise that you can assign to your weapon slot that positively affect 1) skill effect lengths, 2) skill energy costs, and 3) skill recharge times respectively; horns that you put in your weapon slot with various calls for wilderness survival (but the calls should sound different from the defaut horn sound that accompanies many existing skills) that substantially boost certain skill types used during the duration of the calls' effects (only one effect at a time) for example a trap horn call that you bring into effect by selecting yourself and using the attack command and an enemy attraction call that you use by targeting an enemy outside your normal range and using the attack command that attracts only that enemy's group all the way from the edge of your compass to your position making the pull ranger function more effective; and charm artifacts that go in the weapon slot for beast mastery that you can use to temporarily cause monster conditions (1 at a time per the type of charm you have equiped) like sleep, berserk, devolution (when this is in effect, the target enemy cannot use skills) and so forth by selecting a foe and using the attack command. These ideas would be time-consuming for ArenaNet to put into practice because they would have to balance them all.
Best regards,
Chris. Dratz

/NOT signed, no need for them, bestmasters need their pet and pet only, you could spec in beast/marks/and expertise is you really want to shoot them

Wrong.

Your skills in the beastmastery line are your weapons.

Just like an Elementalist that use Fire Magic can have a wand/staff with a requirement in Fire Magic that had bonuses to the Fire Magic attribute line, so should Rangers have weapons that use the other attribute lines as a requirement with bonuses/mods to that attribute line.

This is a great idea, however I would like to see that Rangers still keep Bows as weapons, the are a RANGER, They could just make the Wilderness Survival bows give more energy than damage for traps, or Maybe a whip for Beast Mastery wouldnt be so bad, I dont think a expertise req weapon is a good idea cause youll get even more brainless people scrambling to look on wiki for the latest touch ranger build, cause they cant think of their own build, or if you start doing daggers for an attribute as someone mentioned youll start to wander away from what a ranger is meant for.

/signed in moderation

You can't really whack someone over the head with a trap when they're beating you up. Self-defense is important. I don't really trap much with my ranger for this reason. I carry a bow because that's all there is.

And when you have a pet with you, it's kinda silly that you can't do any damage in the battle as well. Why have two bodies then? May as well leave the pet behind and do some real damage yourself.

So I would like to see weapons linked to other attributes, especially expertise. I usually max my primary and it's great if you can have one weapon no matter which build you're going for.

Of course they can. Just choose Dervish or Paragon as your second prof. Then again, you knew that. Didn't you?

Ranger weapons not bound to Marksmanship is a good idea from the get-go. How about an Indiana Jones style whip for those who like master traps?

WS and BM staves, no whips. You are friends with your pet. Would you beat the crap out of your best friend?

/signed for alternate weapons

~the rat~

One thing must be stated.

If more weapons are given to Rangers, they must bbe added to assasins and dervishes, and for Leadership attribute too (like shields).

Won't be fair adding them to Rangers, but no to other classes.

rangers cant have staffs because they're for spell casters

walking sticks would be cool though


WILDERNESS SURVIVAL
walking stick

BEAST MASTERY
sling shot


both two handed

Sling Shot
Blunt Dmg 5-15 (req 8)
Dmg +15% (while health is above 50%)

Walking Stick
Blunt Dmg 10-18 (req 8)
Dmg +15% (while health is above 50%)

all you people who are suggesting crossbows this is like medieval times
and crossbows are sooo..... ordinary

think of somthing outside the box like what i put above: a sling shot and walking stick

So why should only RANGERS get special weapons that aren't linked to the combat attribute when other professions don't (besides spellcasters)? Not very fair if you ask me. Why are there no Deadly Arts weapons, for example?