I searched, and couldn't believe I couldn't find a suggestion to stop simple bait and switch scams in GW!
The solution is easy: Once both parties submit their offers, they go to a "locked" window where they can either "Agree" or "Cancel" the trade (you cannot modify the trade at this point).
No more bait and switch. Painless and easy.
A Petition to Stop Bait and Switch Scams
Mordakai
striderkaaru
this just adds an extra step and might be more of a hassle for those doing honest trades. really, all people have to do is double check all items and gold/plat amount before hitting accept.
the other person cancelled and/or modified the trade? double check again before hitting accept.
bait and switch scams rely on people being careless.
the other person cancelled and/or modified the trade? double check again before hitting accept.
bait and switch scams rely on people being careless.
Mordakai
The fact is, trade is being slowed down with so many scammers.
This "hassle" (come on, it's one extra mouse click!) will save you time in the long run because it will weed out all the crappy Bait and Switch scammers out there.
Honestly, legitimate traders should welcome this feature, as it will ultimately save them time.
This "hassle" (come on, it's one extra mouse click!) will save you time in the long run because it will weed out all the crappy Bait and Switch scammers out there.
Honestly, legitimate traders should welcome this feature, as it will ultimately save them time.
Gargle Blaster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
The fact is, trade is being slowed down with so many scammers.
This "hassle" (come on, it's one extra mouse click!) will save you time in the long run because it will weed out all the crappy Bait and Switch scammers out there. Honestly, legitimate traders should welcome this feature, as it will ultimately save them time. |
fiery
people scam or try to cant do much.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
NO!!!! your logic is flawed. Bait and switch scams are NOT the norm. More bureaucracy is never the answer... Don't punish everyone b/c you cant take the time to look over your trades.
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That's just silly.
Look, I don't see why people are against this. The only people it hurts are the scammers. Legitimate traders will not be slowed at all by this...
Damon Windwalker
How about a petition to get players to realize that protecting themselves is their own responsibility?
Gargle Blaster
This is very simple really mistakes happen more frequently than scamms...
under your plan you would have to close out of the trade window and re-open a new one, and re-submit your items to be traded for both trading peoples(you ever think about that other person in the trade?).BTW that is more than 1 click
it's like copy protection - people that scam are always going to figure out a way around the system... then you are left with procedures that do nothing but slow down everyone else.
under your plan you would have to close out of the trade window and re-open a new one, and re-submit your items to be traded for both trading peoples(you ever think about that other person in the trade?).BTW that is more than 1 click
it's like copy protection - people that scam are always going to figure out a way around the system... then you are left with procedures that do nothing but slow down everyone else.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker
How about a petition to get players to realize that protecting themselves is their own responsibility?
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Seriously, how would this one extra step harm you?Even if you've never been scammed, I'm sure people have TRIED to scam you. That's wasting your time. This will end the majority of bait and switch scams, and there will be no excuse for people who fall for these scams with this fail-safe in place.
striderkaaru
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
I do look over my trades. But once I see the item is correct, I don't want to have to continually keep looking to make sure it doesn't change!
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and what's to stop the scammers from cancelling out of that trade final trade window, and redoing the whole process until someone gets careless and doesn't check at the final trade window?
1 extra step. problem still not solved.
aron searle
/ signed
if you dont like it at least come up with a good reason to not implement it.
OH NOEZ it will make me spend up to 5 secs more to finalize a trade and stop these scammers END OF TEH WOLRD !!!!!!!!!!
if you dont like it at least come up with a good reason to not implement it.
OH NOEZ it will make me spend up to 5 secs more to finalize a trade and stop these scammers END OF TEH WOLRD !!!!!!!!!!
Yichi
I always make sure that everythings correct. as soon as i see the trade modified i cancel it and reopen. if it was an honest mistake, hell reopen trade. then when everything is correct, they hit accept first, then i do. never been scammed that way 
/signed as i have had people i know get scammed by this
/signed as i have had people i know get scammed by this
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
This is very simple really mistakes happen more frequently than scamms...
under your plan you would have to close out of the trade window and re-open a new one, and re-submit your items to be traded for both trading peoples(you ever think about that other peorson in the trade?).BTW that is more than 1 click it's like copy protection - people that scam are always going to figure out a way around the system... then you are left with procedures that do nothing but slow down everyone else. |
Come on, either people have responsibility for their actions, or they don't!
Don't tell me it's my job to make sure the trade is right (I agree, BTW), but then say the traders aren't responsible for what they are offering!
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? a final trade window where you double check the items?
and what's to stop the scammers from cancelling out of that trade final trade window, and redoing the whole process until someone gets careless and doesn't check at the final trade window? 1 extra step. problem still not solved. |
I want to prevent people from offering one thing, and then switching to another at the last minute to scam people. It's a simple scam, and there's a simple prevention for it.
Gustav Gloomp
leave it the way it is. if u implement this new way its gonna take up the same time as it does now, plus u hav to double check even with this new idea.
TheClash
Why should A-Net have to take the time and implement an added system when the main problem is stupidity on the part of a player? They only get away with these things because people are moronic at times and don't pay attention. They should accept the fact that they screwed up and get over it and not make the same mistake again.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Gustav Gloomp
leave it the way it is. if u implement this new way its gonna take up the same time as it does now, plus u hav to double check even with this new idea.
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Mordakai
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Originally Posted by TheClash
Why should A-Net have to take the time and implement an added system when the main problem is stupidity on the part of a player? They only get away with these things because people are moronic at times and don't pay attention. They should accept the fact that they screwed up and get over it and not make the same mistake again.
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It will help prevent people from being scammed.
It's good customer service.
striderkaaru
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
If you agree to a LOCKED screen where the items can't change, you have NO EXCUSE for being scammed!
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so this "locked" window prevents any further modification. however, scammers can still do the cancel-reopen trade trick.
the reason why i am not signing it is because i really don't see how it changes anything. when a scammer modifies a trade, you get asked if you want to "accept" again anyway. in the same sense, when a trade is modified and you don't check to see what was changed, you have no excuse for being scammed.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
It will help prevent people from being scammed.
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Juicey Shake
&no sign: should be checking anyway; and I quite like watching idiots scream 'omg someone scammed my _________' in all chat everytime some idiot gets duped, it's nice to remind him to his '__________ IS A SCAMMER' spam is also against the eula.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
under the current system, if you accept a trade and it is modified, your previous acceptance is cancelled and you have the choice of pressing accept again. in this case, it is your responsibility to look over the items once more before clicking "accept" again.
so this "locked" window prevents any further modification. however, scammers can still do the cancel-reopen trade trick. the reason why i am not signing it is because i really don't see how it changes anything. when a scammer modifies a trade, you get asked if you want to "accept" again anyway. in the same sense, when a trade is modified and you don't check to see what was changed, you have no excuse for being scammed. |
Second, there's always a chance (however minute) that someone could change an item right as you click "accept." (This happened to me.)
In this case, you have no recourse.
striderkaaru
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
First, I've heard different accounts of this. Are you POSITIVE that "Accept" resets?
Second, there's always a chance (however minute) that someone could change an item right as you click "accept." (This happened to me.) In this case, you have no recourse. |
and you can't click "accept" (the button is greyed out), when a trade is being modified.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
yes, i'm quite certain the "accept" resets as many people have tried the bait and switch on me.
and you can't click "accept" (the button is greyed out), when a trade is being modified. |
I admit, people will still try it. But with a Lock screen, the amount of people falling for these scams will drop tremendously. It's my belief that the majority of scammers will realize the Bait and Switch tactic is no longer as profitable.
As for your second point, I guess I was just unlucky, and happened to click accept right as he completed the switch.
But if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone...
Gargle Blaster
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
If many people have tried this on you, wouldn't a "lock" screen reduce the number of scammers?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
I admit, people will still try it. But with a Lock screen, the amount of people falling for these scams will drop tremendously. It's my belief that the majority of scammers will realize the Bait and Switch tactic is no longer as profitable.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
As for your second point, I guess I was just unlucky, and happened to click accept right as he completed the switch.
But if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone... |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Come on, either people have responsibility for their actions, or they don't!
Don't tell me it's my job to make sure the trade is right (I agree, BTW), but then say the traders aren't responsible for what they are offering! |
you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it...
Damon Windwalker
Caveat Emptor
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/caveat_emptor.htm
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/caveat_emptor.htm
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
it curently is a lock screen... why would there be any less number of people trying to scam you?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
why would bait and switch not be profitable?
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
you are not a special snowflake... deal with it.
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If anything, it just reinforces my point: I'm not the only one who is effected by scammers! We ALL are, whether we fall for them or not.
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
your point is moot as all people are responsible for their actions.
you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it... |
If people spend a few seconds picking out the items they're going to trade, (which they should be doing anyway) the extra "locked" window will not slow down trades significantly.
Game designers have a responsibilty to make a game as fun to play as possible.
IMO, being scammed is NOT fun.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker
Caveat Emptor
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147). http://www.law.cornell.edu/lexicon/caveat_emptor.htm |
I don't.
darkdragon99
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
it curently is a lock screen... why would there be any less number of people trying to scam you?
why would bait and switch not be profitable? you are not a special snowflake... deal with it. your point is moot as all people are responsible for their actions. you also seem to be droping some of my ideas... like mistakes happen more than scams... or that scams will happen in any system. --your ideas ar not solving any problem they are just making it more difficult to play the game... the game design should try to get out of the way of the players not in it... |
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Originally Posted by Juicey Shake
&no sign: should be checking anyway; and I quite like watching idiots scream 'omg someone scammed my _________' in all chat everytime some idiot gets duped, it's nice to remind him to his '__________ IS A SCAMMER' spam is also against the eula.
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and finaly if you don't want scammed don't trade with other ppl simple as that
Medion
Quote:
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I mean if the choice is:
balancing / make sure I can't be scammed
I would surely chose balancing.
being scammed is only because you don't check the items you buy. And I have never been scammed to be honest, it's not like 10% of the GW people are scammers.
You say you don't want to check every time he changes his offer? Sorry but I think then it is your mistake when you are scammed. (not saying that scamming is good)
And if, as i hear in this thread, people keep switching their offers more often, doesn't something pop-up into your head that it might be a scam?
One switch can happen, two switches, although rarely, happen but not if it's like 4 times.
Or is it that this problem only occurs in America/Korea? Cause I haven't met any scammer in Europe so far.
xxhell
i dont evan consider bait and switch scaming(but i still dont do it) anyone dumb enough to fall for it should be scammed.. im not flaming your thread im just saying instead of having some extra step why dont you just worry about yourself and ill worry about myself.. of course the bait and switch in diablo 2 is what got me to scamming in that game.. i ended up hacking acounts.. bait and switching.. every scam in diablo 2 i knew i made so much *real* money off it.. all because someone scamed me for the first soj i found.. and i wanted it back but realy i got it back times 10k lol..most scammers start scamming because they got scammed its a on going circle
/not signed
/not signed
capblueberry
I have a nice little method i use to make sure i dont get scammed, its quite simple, pay attention to wth ur doing
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by capblueberry
I have a nice little method i use to make sure i dont get scammed, its quite simple, pay attention to wth ur doing
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Javinator
Really, unless you are one of these bait and switchers, I don't understand why you'd be so adamantly against this one extra locked screen just to make sure that everything is as it should be. Having to constantly recheck that you're getting the right item, although your responsibility, is not the point of trading.
Trading wasn't made as a test to get people scammed since they're not paying attention, so why are so many people fighting this one extra screen where the items are locked? Personally, I think these bait and switchers should be forced to put as much time into the game as the rest of us to make their money and, unless you're REALLY stupid (I mean like beyond dumb), there would be absolutely no more scamming.
Someone said that this would not stop bait and switchers since they'd merely click decline and try it on someone else, but they'd probably give up as the bait and switch would not work 99.9% of the time and the scam would become a thing of the past.
/signed
Javinator
Trading wasn't made as a test to get people scammed since they're not paying attention, so why are so many people fighting this one extra screen where the items are locked? Personally, I think these bait and switchers should be forced to put as much time into the game as the rest of us to make their money and, unless you're REALLY stupid (I mean like beyond dumb), there would be absolutely no more scamming.
Someone said that this would not stop bait and switchers since they'd merely click decline and try it on someone else, but they'd probably give up as the bait and switch would not work 99.9% of the time and the scam would become a thing of the past.
/signed
Javinator
actionjack
why not
but I would just wait for the Auction house...
but I would just wait for the Auction house...
Damon Windwalker
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
If that's the kind of world you want to live in, fine.
I don't. |
Carinae
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Originally Posted by striderkaaru
under the current system, if you accept a trade and it is modified, your previous acceptance is cancelled and you have the choice of pressing accept again. in this case, it is your responsibility to look over the items once more before clicking "accept" again.
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If 'Accept' is not being cleared out on a modify, then we have a HUGE security issue! If it is, then I agree that a mouseover before accepting is expected behavior.
But it was my understanding that Accept was NOT being cleared. And that's very bad.
I didn't have time to check the trade screens last night, I got sidetracked by naked necros.
Damon Windwalker
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Hmmm, wonder why not signed? (coughcoughscammercoughcough)
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1. Get scammed because you aren't paying attention.
2. Start a campaign spamming this into every thread you can imagine.
3. Deny any personal responsibility.
4. Call anyone who disagrees with you a scammer.
Xenrath
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Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood
Everything hangs on this. If 'Accept' is behaving as it should, scamming is going to be minimized. But that is the 64,000 platinum question now isn't it?
If 'Accept' is not being cleared out on a modify, then we have a HUGE security issue! If it is, then I agree that a mouseover before accepting is expected behavior. But it was my understanding that Accept was NOT being cleared. And that's very bad. I didn't have time to check the trade screens last night, I got sidetracked by naked necros. |
jammr_m32
/not signed
If a person isn't paying close enough attention to realize an offer has been modified and accepts the new offer, I doubt they would be paying any more attention if there was another window. This wouldn't help at all, in my opinion. As it stands now, if an offer is modified you have to accept the new offer. If you've accepted an offer once and are prompted to accept again and foolishly click the accept button again, you're just asking to get scammed.
If a person isn't paying close enough attention to realize an offer has been modified and accepts the new offer, I doubt they would be paying any more attention if there was another window. This wouldn't help at all, in my opinion. As it stands now, if an offer is modified you have to accept the new offer. If you've accepted an offer once and are prompted to accept again and foolishly click the accept button again, you're just asking to get scammed.
Damon Windwalker
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Originally Posted by Xenrath
I just checked and it appears to be working correctly.
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