The Faction Cap Needs To Be Removed

This guy forgot about people like this guy:

Who PvEs and has the skill points and gold to instanly unlock all the skills.

So, why is it better to unlock every skill instantly with PvE and not PvP?

that guys doesn't know you will have to go to the end of c2 to be able to buy all of the new skills

oh wait and then there is the ones you have to cap to get not buy

There's much different to have a skill unlocked with 20k Xp than 1k faction, what is that? like 3 matches in underworld?

And if that person's got N points in his PvE account, what are the chances for him to jump into PvP anyways.

and that is exactly why you have as much chance of getting that as an UAS/X button.

seriously the main problem is a misapprehension the PVP crowd is laboring under that faction is an *EARNED REWARD FOR PVP*

it is not a reward it is only an alternate tool to PVE unlocking

lets settle it by getting rid of faction and letting everybody do PVE .

then have the choice of spending the gold on PVP items or 15k for example

the PVP reward is rank and fame

the PVE reward is the vanity items like 15k etc

FACTION IS A TOOL (NOT A REWARD) TO UNLOCK IN PVP RATHER THAN PVE TO EARN YOUR PVP REWARD OF FAME/RANK AND NOTHING MORE.

How hard is it to go through PvE in this game? Really easy. Rush through and grab the skills. Except that means that players are forced back into the mundane. Nuke, hack and Heal party coming from and E/Mo

And if you collect all the Non-Elite skills using faction to unlock the Elites is far easier.



!5k faction, not 20K. I see you do not PvE much, or keep up with the updates. Good luck next time.

My faction is capped and my warrior has earned 170 skill points. I never farmed much, but I know that some people have over 100 skill points that are unused. What are the chances? Probably good, lets keep speculating.


Fact: Earning faction takes time. I "earn" faction every battle, but GW does not let me have it.

Fact: By capping faction, A.Net is stating that we want you to grind for the new skills. It would not be grind if there was not cap on faction, because we could save it up at our leisure, but since we have to wait for a certian date and then start collection faction it becomes grind.

Fact: Forcing people to grind ruins the game for people trying to enjoy it. PvPers will rush through Ch2 and make PvEers miserable. PvPers will cap the Elite skill and leave the party and PvEers will complain. The Arenas will fill back up with people entering mission and leaving in the hopes that they can get a little faciton in their free time. GvG will fill with Smurf guilds that will do nothing but gank.

Believe it.

/signed

I don't care really, but if this makes pvp players happy, why not?


But a big /not signed on pve rewards like ectos or fow armor unlockable with faction.
No way.

signed

The first time you play through a game is not supposed to be a "grind" you know. In PvE, we can zip through the campagn if we want because we know all the ins and outs of it. We know where to go, how to kill everything, so on, so forth. We've taken in all the visual consumption and heard the story thoroughly. Chapter 2 will be new. When it comes out, I will actually have to play the game. Imagine that?

Here is the point of denying people what they want: games are ment to tease. The Zelda series (and Metroid series) tease you with entrances and things that look like you could explore, but can't because you don't yet have the right equipment. A lot of games (including Guild Wars) entertain with the tease of more to come. This is the reason for level progression, unlockable skills, etc. At some point, there's just nothing more to tease with. The game is over then. There is a finite amount of stuff the developers can put into a game. Thus they bring out an expansion with more tease.

What you're talking about is finishing the expansion very very rapidly. It's like reading the last few pages of a book before you read the story leading up to it, or having the ending of a movie spoiled to you. And that goes against what the developers are trying to achieve. You can remove the cap and have your sense of accomplishment now (even though you don't even know what skills they're teasing you with yet), and then Chapter 2 will be a waste, with the only accomplishment you get is knowing you paid money to unlock stuff. Or you could start anew in Chapter 2 and actually have a refresh of accomplishments that should acompany a new expansion.

Keep in mind, in PvE the skill points we build up are on a per-character basis. We cannot play an Assassin primary without starting again. Even with an Assassin secondary, we have to actually find the skills first, and that's done through playing the game, not grinding. Our supposed "wealth" of money doesn't change that either (though, just yesterday I had exactly 1 gold piece accross all my characters and storage). So don't argue that PvE gets everything easier.

Undivine, you are right. The first time through should be a fun and new experiance, filled with new adventures and sceanery.

However, this experiance will be destroyed, if PvPers are only able to get the skills through PvE, or farming faction.

My first four times attempting to complete Hell's Precipace were plagued with people capping skills and leaving. Undead Rurik was the last charcter I could kill in the mission with a full team. Chapter 2 will have the same problems as chapter 1 did at the rate that things are likely to turn out.

Additionally, my concerns of GvG smurfs and ganking for extremely fast faction gains, and arena leeching are very real.

The answer to keeping PvE from having these problems is to keep the desire for people to cause these problems out.

Perhaps a unlimited cap is not the answer, but raising the cap to the level that will limit these problems is a very good answer.

As many people have previously stated, the NPC's with "Get xyz as your seconday" will probably not show up in the desert, therefore, your logic makes no sense. PvEers will not be able to do any of what you just mentioned without going through the game normally once first.

/signed but to raise it to 60k ish

GAME TYPE REWARD

pvp Rank/fame
Ladder position
Jessica Alba



pve Fissure armour
Rosanne Barr

/not signed

/////NOT signed 5 times

I would actually create the character because I could have all the skills in a week, with ascension. Then I am set for pvp.

/signed

that little bunch of butt spoo is y these topics keep poping up and ppl keep fighting

And what makes you so absolutely sure about this? Did you get this from the dev's mouth? They should certainly be in the desert just like all the others. And I will be a W/A within the day. hehe And rush to Hell to buy all the skills lol. Just teasing you.

Some people just take this "game" just too darn seriously, everyone is afraid that someone else is going to get the upper hand or advantage and you all know when it comes to PVP it's about your OWN SKILLS and OWN INTELLIGENCE and not so much your equpment or skill bar.

/notsigned

I gotta agree with the C2 argument...

Well I guess I cannot wait to see the entire guild wars population playing one of two (?) more professions through the game as soon as Ch2 releases.

I guess we can plan on knowing if there are any Assassin based abusive builds from that fiasco.

Kind of sounds like fun, as I type it.

Play through the game? Are you crazy. People will just take their 20's and FIND where the 2ndary skill can be changed if it's only in CH2 and that will be that as they will just pop from city to city and load up on the buyable skills and then find out where they ALL can be bought and rush to that.

Playing through the content ended about the 1st month of the game. lol Taint much left but rushers anymore. Gotta have it gotta have it NOW don't wanna waste time...MINE MINE MINE! lol roflmao.

I agree, once you hit 10k faction with everything unlocked whats the point? Either increase the cap or remove it, or make a way to sell or give faction to people. That way at least something usefull comes of it. You could give faction to your guildies that need to unlock stuff, or you could sell it off and make some money. Mind you by now with all the people at full faction it'd probably be pretty cheap too.

Giving faction other uses does sound like a good idea. I'd /sign that.

I'd like the cap removed. PvE'ers don't have a cap for skillpoints.

The purpose of the faction system was to provide a method for a PvP ONLY player to unlock skills and mods in a comparable amount of time as a PvE ONLY player. The faction system does this well, it need NOT be changed.

IMO, Anet has shown that they've given thought towards this balance between PvP ONLY players and PvE ONLY players in Chapter 1. I believe they will continue this consideration in Chapter 2, and when Chapter 2 is closer to release (and unlocking skill methods and availability is better known) this balance will be reviewed.

You know what - instead of a hard cap on faction, I'd rather this:

If you have less than 10k faction starting a run in any PvP venue your faction is not capped; you cannot lose out on gained faction while in a run.
If you have 10k+ faction when starting a run you are SOOL. Should have visited the priest. That way at least I'll never be screwed - any set cap you could hit in theory and lose out on faction.

Who cares if you can't spend your faction on anything, all the stupid skills and items I unlock are completely useless because I don't have a pvp only character/open slot and I still play PvP. 15k faction for an ecto is extremely cheap considering how hard it is to get one. I think it's bad enough how easy it is for pvp only characters to get the greatest weapons. I also have to agree that its unfair to unlock everything on the first day chapter 2 comes out. Newer players who aren't loaded with faction will have a big disadvantage in pvp.

Btw pve people dont have a cap for skill points, thats truel, but they still have to play a while to get to the next town that has skills. They also can't by weapons with skill points.

since people have capped out and gotten everything this fast it is clear that they made faction to easy to get.

to get things back into balance so faction keeps its value for newer players how about a cut in half for a trial.?

faction is only a tool it is not a reward.

when the job is finished you put the tool back in the box til it is needed later.

Well, Sniper, bud, I don't want to hear you complain about you not having a PvP only slot. I have deleted two; level 20, completed the game, been to the UW/FoW for lots of skill points, characters. I refuse to delete any more at this point. I have three characters, and one PvP only slot.

And if you cared to scroll up you would see that I have changed my tune.

Anyone else want to explore the possibilities of teams based on the new characters on week one of Chapter 2? (looking for exploitiave builds)

If this release goes anything like the last one, I will wake up at servers open and start blasting through.

Considering we don't even know if faction is going to be used or not in I don't really care I don't want to get on either side because I can see a flame war coming.

Still it just costs well lets see

3000 Faction for elite
+1000 for each skill x7
-1000 for Res sig
9000 faction

for the build of a new character with new skills. I could live with it.

/NOTSIGNED
What if Anet makes the mistake to be able to unlock /weps/skills/armor/dyes/prof with faction? Chap 2 would be boring with 100k+ faction.
KEEP THE FACTION CAP!

Put a cap on exp earned per character. It is quite literally the same thing under the current game options for skills.

The only fine difference between the two is the pve character can get cool looking armor and weapons, while the pvp can choose which rune and weapon upgrade he unlocks. A pve character can also buy said items with gold from another player or rune trader as well. This is ignoring the broken economics that encompass the game of course.

Personally id be all for a forced exp cap, in addition to more strict wealth caps per character and account as well. Sure stacks of commodities would become more valuable and people could in theory open up extra accounts just to hold junk and money. The stacks of commodities are just commodities and aren't really needed, in addition to being provided from npc venders. Only a couple of them are hard to come by and only used with things that could only be described as luxury items. Extra accounts for mules would merely just add revenue to ANET anyway.

Skill points buy skills, nothing else. Faction buys skills, upgrades, and runes. Even if faction could buy only skills, the cap would only harm you once you had every skill unlocked. So. . .what is the problem? I need no more skill points on my character once he has enough to unlock every skill, same as you need no more faction once you have everything unlocked. So feel free to cap my experience, at enough to give me 450 skill points. Chapter two increases the cap, just as chapter two will give you something to spend your faction on. I cannot spend my skill points on anything after I have unlocked all skills on one character. You cannot spend faction once you have unlocked all skills. Seems fair to me. What do you care if I can continue to gather skill points? It is going to take work (yes, you won't be able to just higher a runner here, sorry) to get the new skills, the new elites, in chapter two. You can jump into competition arenas for an hour and buy an elite.

Something most people could be perfectly happy with. Removes the problem of a cap for those who still need the faction, and has no effect on those who don't need it anymore.

So, what exactly is the problem? You are angry that you cannot save up faction to spend on chapter two items? You think that faction needs more things to spend it on, because you somehow deserve it?

I think not.

Remove the faction cap and we can get all the new skills on C2 on day 1. Why is that bad? id love that.

PvP chars get all skills and can pvp away
PvE people get to play through the new content to unlock skills, have fun and farm.

I dont fancy playing through pve for 2 days just to get all the skills to start playing tombs again, no thx

If they don't cap faction, guild with more faction would abuse early exploits of chapter 2, and anet won't be at time to update exploits.
This way, new skills will be explored with more time required and exploits would be seen more easy.
Anet don't want to reset guild ladder i suppose. And you don't want that also.
Then, for me is ok the cap to faction.

You will still be able to play tombs with one of the existing 6 classes, you don't even need to buy Ch 2 for that!

No pve character earns only exp when farming.

You are taking the two out of context. Think of it this way, after you get all the skills for one profession combination and +10 skill points equivilant in exp, you may no longer earn exp. This is essentially where the faction level is capped.

You wont need a runner if you are efficent yourself. The only way to prevent a secondary profession change within the first few hours it goes live, is if they make it not possible to do so with chapter 1 characters and force everyone to start from scratch in aquiring the new skill sets. Currently you can store alot more than 10 skills worth of exp after you get everything for one character combination. A pvp character can not. Otherwise the pve characters would probably have to get hit with the nerf bat, in order to prevent the pvp character jumpstarts.

It is not a pve versus a pvp argument. It is a prevention from abuse argument, because we both know that exp loaded character is not sitting there just because it was fun to get loads of exp. The only purpose for such a character is to take advantage of when new skills become available and aquiring them almost effortlessly. There are very few things in the pve that actually require other human assistance. Fortunatly this number has grown some since release. Hopefully this trend will continue and help even out the progression in the new chapter keeping a balanced playing field between players instead of the aforementioned "rushers" to bypass the content in order to get to whatever goal sooner.

Will someone please explain the faction cap please? I'm rank 7 and I've never noticed it...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


I guess that is proof that PvE is the fastest way to unlock everything.

Faction is capped at 10K faction. After you fully unlock your account, you quit gaining faction.

I have been stuck at 85,000 faction since I was rank three.

Faction can unlock any skill, be it from your primary profession, your secondary profession, or neither. Therefore, it would be utterly stupid to cap skill points at enough for primary and secondary, no more.

No tombs player earns only faction.

Then don't? I doubt that you avoided tombs until you had every skill unlocked in chapter one. You might be forced to use your head and unlock skills that help your builds, rather than just grab everything. Did I mention the fact that the assassin won't fit in every build?

In fact, many of them did play for *gasp* fun. Experience was the side effect. In either case, how is it abuse? It took effort to get that experience, more than I can say about faction. Not to mention that the skills trainers for PvE will take work to get to, unlike the faction skill trainers who are handed to you without any thought on your part.

You are being sarcastic right? Chapter two is supposed to have close to the same amount of content as chapter one. Show me someone who can clear all 30-40 missions of chapter one in 3 hours, and I will be impressed. Show me someone who can do that when they have never done any of the missions before, and do not know where they are located, and I will be amazed. I do not believe for a second that the desert will have an npc to change you secondary to assassin. I could be wrong, I have been before. But the more likely thing is a different outpost, in a different zone. Nor do I think that the skill trainer in ember light camp will provide all the assassin skills, or even all the new skills for the current professions. With the current system, you will unlock things faster by going into competition arenas then you would by trying to fight your way through the entire content of chapter two.