The Faction Cap Needs To Be Removed

correct.

as stated officially there will be points of mingling between chapter 1 and 2. how much is still not decided

you will not see your first chapter 2 skill/item/upgrade/etc until you are in and playing chapter 2.

to think that any level person could be run to ELC and load up on chapter 2 skills is amusing but..........

Actually I was never complaining about not having a free pvp slot :P. But still if u wanna PvP with one of the new professions you can get your 7 skills and one elite with 10k faction. 10k can also give u a good amount of weapon mods and stuff, u dont need 50k faction to start chapter 2 with.

Right, you believe in the tooth fairy too i suppose. Any character that loaded with exp wasnt doing so just because watching the numbers increase is fun. There was a time when the character existed when everything might have been new and fun, but after amassing the quantities we are both refering to is well beyond that point multiplied by whatever factor you deem is appropriate. Exp gained through pve doesn't take effort, it merely takes time. In all of pvp there are no players that use exactly the same builds in the same way and waiting in the exact same positions every single time. There is the very real possibility that you did not bring the right skill to win or they had a build that countered your team's build well. PvE is more of a given situation as the AI is very predictable. In both cases you tend to bring the best possible build to the table, but that ideal build does not work in every situation. This happens more frequently in pvp than pve. I say that it is abusable in either instance, because the trainers are available to the pvp characters in the pvp areas, just like the pve trainers are easily accessable to an experienced pve player.

It doesn't take much for a level 20 character to run through the ascalon, shiverpeak and kryta missions solo. It takes even less for an experienced team of level 20 characters to perform the same feat. You are assuming alot to think that chapter 2 will be level 20 specific content only, similar to the sorrow's furnace expansion. You are assuming even more that the only way to aquire those skills will only occur through the mission system.


In the most sincere way possible hope that those things do not come to pass. If they do, it just opens the door for even faster progression for a ready and waiting pve character to exploit the new chapter.

Sure, if you never lose and no one ever drops and the faction rewards increase exponentially. It is way faster to go through the pve game and suck up all the normal skills with a pve character than it is to unlock each of them individually at 1k faction each. The elietes are a slightly different story though, due to some of the locations involved. I should know, because the only reason i have as much faction as i do spent, is because i never bothered to play a ranger through pve normally.

I think you would be surprised at how many people did not run a particular class combination till they had absorbed many, if not all of the skills by rushing through pve. The premade pvp templates leave something to be desired in most cases.

Every time you make a new PvE character, you have to aquire your skills and experience all over again. Every time you make a PvP character, your faction, and all the things you unlocked, are still available to you.

Faction can unlock all the best weapons and upgrades. You can get any rune, even the Rune of Superior Vigor or Absorption, far out of reach of most PvE characters.

I think you have a very skewed notion of how "easy" it is to aquire all the skills in the game in PvE. Not to mention that that is just for the one character. If you want a different primary, you start again.

I ask you, if you want to build up enough faction to unlock everything at the start of chapter 2, then why even bother with faciton at all? Perhaps ANet should just remove faction entirely and give PvPers everything right at the start anyway. No progression, just flat-out perfection.

I believe the original purpose of the proposal to remove the faction cap was to give you that sense of reward for winning in PvP. Well just face the facts: You've finished the game! You've unlocked everything in the game and now all you really need is new content. You're just so syked for Chapter 2 that you want it now. Tough ****! The game isn't out yet. Wait, and you can then start earning your Chapter 2 goodies.

Don't give me that crap that PvEers get all this free stuff at the start of Chapter 2, because that's just not the case. Playing through the campagns for the first time takes effort (and luck, in the case of PUGs). Even if it were that easy, people want to be Assassins, not Warrior/Assassins.

I don't understand why they can't increase the faction cap. I've reached 10,000 so many times without realizing. lol 20,000 doesn't sound too bad to me.

I mean you can only buy 3 elites with 10,000. That's not enough space.

Oh well.. it's just a minor suggestion because sometimes when you are on a very good team and you keep winning and your faction is full, you don't want to leave the team, and yet you are not getting faction points. Increasing the Cap may reduce the problem a bit. I've this happened to me sooooooooooo many times. I had to leave the team only because my faction pool is full.

well if your leaving your team just cause you have max faction you should probly find a game you enjoy playing for playing and stop bitching that i can't have this i can't have that

the level 20 content is not an assumption it is stated official fact.

I SAID it's a MINOR suggestion. You are the one bitches here, not me. I am just contributing my ideas and describing what happened to me in the game.

If the cap is bigger, people can STILL enjoy faction points and PvP. I just don't see why 10,000 is the cap and not 20,000 or 50,000?

Oh and thanks for your contribution to this thread "GO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND STOP BITCHING". That's brilliant.

what i said basicly is if faction is the only reason you play you should find a game you enjoy playing for playing you know the gameplay is what should be the center point but it's always the rank or this needs uncapped or this needs nerfed

you know if you don't enjoy just playing the game without worring about these things you should find something less stressful to do

not a flame just a clarification please.

are you saying you left because you were not gaining more faction or were you saying that is the excuse the people who have quit on you leaving the team a person short used?

Dude, which part of "Minor" suggestion you DO NOT understand?

The game is designed to GIVE faction points to PvP characters so they can unlock things. Faction Point IS part of the game. 10,000 CAP seems small because when you are on a very good team, you keep winning but if your faction pool is full, you can't use them until you lose or leave the team. I find it mildly annoying because I don't see the difference between 10,000 cap and 20,000 cap. It's a FREAKING suggestion. It's not BITCHING as you claimed.

PS: You can't buy a lot of things with 10,000. 3 elites max. If you want to buy runes or items, 10,000 is really not that big of a CAP.

And I do enjoy the game, for YOUR information.

You are reading too much.

the game wasn't designed to give faction point.

faction points were placed into the game it used to be if you wanted to unlock anything for pvp you had to do it in pve by geting the skills or runes or items.

how can 10,000 be low it's more than i've ever used but than again i unlocked mos of my stuff the old fashioned way.

i think ppl have forgotten these little facts.

actually i do read a lot.

what i simply wanted to know was if you were complaining about people leaving your group high and dry or if you were the one leaving.

just curious.

peace and goodwill

I'm a genious, I have the answer!!!!

Put a Preist of Balthazar in ALL the PvP areas, specifically the Guild Halls.

Ok, that is an easy suggestion.

Next:

Then put a preist in The HoH, only accessible to the winning team. That way if you are on a hot streak you can spend spend spend.

Works for me. Better yet, eliminate the priest altogether, have it as part of your skills drop-down sheet (or, since runes/items are also on there, a new drop-down sheet, but like skills/inventory it is accessible anywhere). Simply buy them on the fly. It doesn't matter in instances anyway, since you can't switch skill sets. Spend faction wherever you are, anytime at all.

Almost all of the content in ch1 is not based around ascended characters. Dragon's lair to the end of the game is based around level 20 characters. 7 missions, eliete skill capturing, and sorrows furnace does not make the majority of the game. There is alot more content before that point in the game. The game balance is based around level 20 though. Since it is the cap, it is also easy to rate game hours per level as well making level 20 biased. The "end game" does not even encompass a majority of the game world map. I am wondering where you dug up that dusty quote as it would seem to be something published prior to the initial game release.

There is another problem with your level 20 only theory. It is the instance where any character starts over that is not a ch1 character. You are suggesting that a level 1 assasin face off againt level 20 characters (or higher) with no skills or armor. As amusing as of the thought of that is, it would be akin to watching low level henchmen die to the titans over and over again. That is not going to happen though.

I am still wondering though about how optional the chapters actually are. I do not recall if anyone stated that you can skip chapter 1. I can only recall references to skipping later chapters though. Alot of the information is too vauge really, so i imagine the precedent will be set when chapter 2 is released. The only real option i can see them taking without changing some elements of chapter one is making the two completely seperate, forcing everyone to remake into the new chapter. Because, if the new chapter does have new classes and people will make new characters, then there will need to be low level areas for those individuals to exist within. If they are counting on the players going back and re-doing ch1 with these new characters, then it opens the possibility for the existing high end exp count level 20 characters to very rapidly soak up all the skills with a chapter 2 enabled account without stepping out into the chapter 2 content. There is the location based eliete skills issue, but like i did mention before that faction can be a faster approach for things like elietes. Under this style they could aslo teir the skills for chapter 1 progression and chapter 2 progression keeping the existing game model, but spreading out the skills more between the two. This would also imply a sizeable skill set increase for all the existing classes as well, or a ch1 nerf in current skill distribution.

. . .No he isn't. Were did you get the idea that an assassin would not start in pre-searing?

Missions advance your character across the world. Thunderhead keep takes you to ember light camp. In fact, it is the only way to get there. So yes, I think that missions will need to be completed for a player to get all the skills. That team of level 20's you mentioned also happen to know the terrain, the spawns, what the enemies will do, and what there patrol routes are. Not only will no one have that knowledge, but the areas are not likely to be that low-leveled.

Then play tombs.

I hate to burst your bubble here, but faction does not exactly take skill to get either. I would have thought you knew about all the people who use the same builds the same way in PvP, but I guess you have never seen an iway group. As to the amount I am refering to, I don't care if it is 3 skill points or 300. Either one appears to be the same to you, so does the actual number matter? All I see is someone who is angry that PvE characters have something that his PvP character does not, the ability to build up a store of skill points. Lets ignore the fact that you are handed the skill trainers, while a PvE character will have to go find them.

That area is called pre-searing.

i will have to try to find that (not today)

possibly run them through a Assassin skill quested chapter 1?

very good point because every official statement i have seen refers to the new chapters saying all NEW chapters are optional.

sure gives a good marketing promotion chance though.

BUY CHAPTER 2 GET CHAPTER 1 AT:

HALF PRICE
or
75% OFF
or
FREE

2 GAMES FOR THE PRICE OF ONE

Yup, I like this idea! I mean you can't change skills during matches anyway but you can at least use up the faction points before it reaches that small 10,000 cap.

the way i understand it is the NEW chapters will add new things to the game some you can still have without the NEW chapters and others like the new classes that you can only play as with the NEW chapters

so if you only have chapter 1 you will see assasin running around you just can't use them

Here is the answer:

I don't see why the cap is at 10,000 which is not even a big cap at all. Most stuff you can buy cost at least 1000 and elites cost 3000 and I think superior runes cost more than 1000 as well. But like I've said, it's just a minor suggestion to either increase the cap or as one of the posts suggested, get rid of the cap all together and allow people to buy stuff during matches, since you can't change skill sets anyway.

I am not a faction freak and that's why I DON'T check them every single time before I play PvP. There are several times when I am on a very good team and my faction pool is full. Sometimes I would let my teammates know that I want to use the faction points so I'll leave the next game and allow them to gain one new player to replace me. I won't just leave the game during matches. Sometimes my team goes for 20+ consecutives and the points really add up. You want to be on the team and see how many W you can get, but you also want to spend the points. Not like I would leave the team to save the points but as a MINOR suggestion, maybe they can increase the cap a bit so there's more room.

It's really not a huge problem but since somebody made a thread about it, I am sure I am NOT the only one who feels this way.

PS: As for quiters, there are plenty of "reasons" or "excuses" to leave the game. Everybody hates quiters but that's the nature of online games. You can't force somebody to stay in the game unless they give penalty which I believe will cause more problems. Not sure what's the best way to counter quiters. Diablo 2's monster lvl scales with number of players in the game, so quiters doesn't seem like a huge problem in D2. In fact, having more players is more of a problem in D2 if they don't have good builds to help the team or they are simply not helping out (like using 8 player game to do item runs).

In the same instant that chapter 2 content wouldnt be handed to existing chapter 1 characters or continue the trend of the rushing through the game to skip to the exact point in it where people want to be.

I did not fail a mission until bloodstone fen the first time i played through the game not knowing all the game mechanics. After knowing the mechanics and skills its rare when i find myself unable to do something. This does persist into the new content already. Compotent people and teams had little to no issues clearing the titan quests and sorrows furnace content.

Thats right, everyone wins every time in pvp. There are no losers ever in pvp, especially in tombs. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

Even people who use flavor of the month builds still perform differently or try different things occasionally. That is why people can identify with skilled or sucessful groups versus unsucessful groups.

This is the mother of all assumptions actually. In all honesty i have played both pve and pvp alot and i am merely pointing out the existing flaws in the system. I have a pve that could exploit it, if given the ability to do so. Its not a matter of who has what, its a matter of people merely leap frogging through the game rather than taking their time and going through all of it, like the did the first time they played.

Yep, because everyone levels up to 20, does the 2 15 attribute point quests, gets droknars equivilant armor, and max collector weapons and mods in pre-searing. Thank you for sharing this tidbit of mis-information with me.
The point i was trying to make was that most games with expansion material require the base game in order to play the game. With the way this game is designed, i do not see the need for that to occur. It could be two essentially stand alone games that work with each other. When the new chapter has been repeatedly quoted with a similar volume of material that chapter 1 presented, i thought it would be rather easy for them to make something like that to happen. It is not required of course for it to be sucessful, but as i said a possibility.

Well I didn't realize it was that inconvenient to spend the faction points. In that case, they should definately make factions spendable anytime. Or stick a priest in every PvP area. Why didn't they do that in the first place I wonder?

/not-signed

"Massive Rift?"... HUH?

Oh, then I guess all skills, runes and items should be relocked periodically to put all players on an equal footing with total beginners...

The above absurdity is brought to you courtesy of your own weak reasoning.

There is a big difference between raising the faction cap to say 50-100k and allowing old players to somehow dominate new players when the expansion arrives. I average 10k faction PER DAY and did 15k yesterday. My account is not totally unlocked, so am still able to spend it, but would be annoyed if it were accumulating worthlessly.

So... having a 50k cap would put me, what, 4 days ahead of a total newbie?

I fail to see where all the chicken littles in this thread are coming from about some perceived advantage those with faction will have on release. Whatever the cap is, it's a matter of a couple days "advantage" if any, and what type of advantage are we talking about exactly? Domination in Tombs/GvG? Weren't the hardcore good players (the ones who dont need more faction to do it) doing this anyway?

Someone above said that faction was a sort of "gift" to the pvp players as if there were some sort of competition going on between pve and pvp players...
HUH?? Where do I sign up? What do I win? Can I get a frameable certificate?

Am I missing something?

Wouldn't the goal be to allow as much faction to be carried over as possible to encourage people to BUY the expansion pack and SPEND the faction?

i think that the argument against unlocking skills immediately C2 is released with faction is BULL!!! pve chars run or get runned to places(now just tele to rof) to unlock skills with skill points.

the game foremost premotes skill>grind, which hasn't seem to be upheld.
most people enticed to buy the game for the pvp aspect were dissapointed b/c they weren't able to use all the skills, and i saw the faction system as more grind. when i found out about fame that was understandable, but it forced many people to grind for fame to get into a good group.

i thought the idea for unlocking fow armor and dye with faction was awesome. maybe even throw in different skins for weps...lol..na..that would ruin worth even more but just make it increasing from unlocking bad skins to the best. i only have bout 200k faction unlocked so it would take a while.

THIS IS THE BIG POINT. If the cap is not removed. all the pvper's would just make a pve char with the new profs and grind to get all the skills. We want to enjoy the game not to grind shit out so we can enjoy it.

I recall a thread discussing grind and that is people grind to b/c they feel like they can only really enjoy the game with all the stuff unlocked and feeling all powerful, but only to find that the game wasn't all that great.

If your not a pvper i dont see the point in u arguing b/c it doesn't affect u.

If u haven't figured it out. /SIGNED

Just remove the cap =)

What's so unfair about that? Everybody has that equal opportunity, so I dont understand your logic.

You know that this tread is 9 months old <3

Pff, i just unlock EVERYTHING through PvE... even weapon upgrades (Balth faction ratio has been maxed at 10k for 12 months now)
And i already have all warrior, monk, mesmer and assassin skills unlocked... just lack a few skills from the other professions (but nobody needs certain ritualist spells in PvP, nor do i think people wish for Dark Fury on a necro any time soon)

I just unlock everything through PvE so i can find new combinations for each and every skill with a certain profession... i've done WoH with the Assassin skill Return in GvG's, not knowing the higher rated guilds also did this (with Blessed Light instead, but still)...
Do it yourself if needed, it's not hard to get 1k... then just go to a skll trainer with a random profession combo and try to think up some new ideas before you buy... you're the one who decides what you need/want after all...

I could care less if the cap is removed, but atleast let us use our faction once we are UAX for like stupid things like Rice Wine or something.

We can exchange Kurzick and Luxon Faction for Amber and Jade, why not allow us to do the same with Balt Faction.

I can not stand to see me being UAX and not being able to keep getting faction.

Give us titles for amount of Faction Earned.

I agree if the cap was removed people would stock pile the faction for expansions, that is why I say keep the cap but give us a way of spending the faction.

/signed Don't remove it, raise it to say 40k.

The Faction cap on Luxon and Kurzick faction is there for a reason. It prevents continuous farming. Otherwise you can just keep faction farming until you feel like stopping, making for really frequent faction gains.

However, the Balthazar faction cap has been there since it was introduced. At least now you know what the maximum is.
The idea is probably to prevent very long winning streaks being productive. I personally always keep my faction below 3000 when I enter RA, to enable some room for a long winning streak.

I am opposed to raising the cap, because it was probably put there for a good reason.

hurray, i'd get a bot to fort aspendwood for me and 1 day i can save up infinite factions and become friend of luxon/kurzick

/sacasm

the cap is there i think is to prevent people from exploit them....

edit: agrees with curse you above

10X more leechers that way.

I say get rid of cap, i see no point to it.

Has this system deadened everyone to reason so much ? Very long winning streaks should not be productive ???

Haha, I take it that people have started saving faction to be able to unlock everything the second nightfall is released.

Anyway...

/unsigned.

I never reach 10k anyway, I get around 7k faction then just buy runes/weapons you never know when I might need a sup deadly arts rune......

/signed

Cap serves no purpose - especially with the PUP's coming out!