Bad Business at Arena Net

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Well I guess A-net didn't listen to my last post warning them about their current and future ideas for Guild Wars.

PvP is the end-game for most repeat buyers. To maintain a large player base, an MMORPG must have quality, well-supported PvE. Blizzard has known this since the beginning and that is why they continue to stomp Guild Wars in the market. Guild Wars was a great opportunity with a bright future. It seems that they have had a change in management.

Arena Net is not encouraging PvE play. They are starting small events such as the Dragon Festival as maintanence for the PvE base. What they should be doing is introducing new content in the form of high level areas or revealing more map.

Instead, they are introducing rehashed/expanded PvP content every 6 months for another $50. This is bad business. If Nightfall does not have quality PvE content when released it will be the last game I purchase from Arena Net.

Monthly costs to play:

World of Warcraft- about 12 dollars a month
Guild Wars- 10 dollars a month

Although Guild Wars is a better value it doesn't come near matching WoW in content. I spend absolutely all my time in Prophecies because it has better PvE and I have absolutely no problem with not buying anything else from Arena Net. I will play Prophecies as long as the servers are running.

On the Reverse side of the coin are PvP players who are mildly enjoying the updates and nerfs. I want to know from true PvPer's though, will you continue buying Guild Wars chapters based on what we know so far. Will you or your parents be willing to shell out $100 a year for content that is half as good as the original product.

I do not think Guild Wars will ever tank. They are making profits. But, I can't fathom why they would alienate their customer base and purposely lose money.

For the last time!

I WILL STAY IN PROPHECIES AND ENJOY MY GUILD WARS EXPERIENCE FOR AS LONG AS THE SERVERS ARE OPEN! UNLESS PVE GAME CONTENT NOTICEABLY IMPROVES, I WILL NOT GIVE ARENA NET ONE MORE DIME!

Kaguya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Moon

Mo/

You don't like it, don't buy it.

There are people who like Factions a ton, so don't generalize

xMikex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

[FTW] For The Winz!

W/Mo

I dont get you man i think factions has good enough pve...

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

I am not sure what the point is. Factions might not suit everyone, but there are few high end areas in Prophecies - basically everything after the desert.

I however agree that Factions could have used more missions and more and larger area, despite the areas being quite packed and dense.

I wonder why GW and WoW get compared. I play GW because I do not have the time for another EQ-derivate. If I would have all the time in the world, I would play EVE, but both EVE and WoW demand too much time if you really want to play them well.

This is why I prefer GW...

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

I was an alcoholic a year ago and this game has kept me sober. It is the only thing I have enjoyed more than the bottle. I am just afraid of what will happen if I get bored with it. This is my personal concern. Please don't flame.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

guild wars was never intended for PvE only ppl, PvE was added to give the PvP ppl some light relief/entertainment when they were not in a GvG/HoH battle

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

I find it funny how people relate the half yearly expansions to monthly fees in Guild Wars. Normal MMORPG's have expansions too and while you pay monthly to play the game, you still have to pay for the expansion. On top of that, expansions give people advantages over others who don't have them. The metagame is still Prophecies only skills when it comes to PvP.

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

it seems that only PvP players are up tonight. That's a shame. I would have liked to seem some ppl agree.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth
it seems that only PvP players are up tonight. That's a shame. I would have liked to seem some ppl agree.
i was a pve only player but my statement was true this game was not ment for pve only

u either have to play pvp or find a new game..im currently looking for a new game

my copy of guildwars/factions was uninstalled last week

cookiemonkie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

Its pretty sad you have to whine about that, after all guild wars is a $50 video game, if the video game causes you that much grief you need to be spending some of that money else where.

For each person that bitches about Guild Wars there is an equal amount that bitches about WoW.

So what WoW has a bigger audience, is this not a surprise since its marketted by Microsoft which can easily buy out online media outlets or fork out bigger marketting dollars.

If you think WoW doesn't have its problems, especially with network reliability etc... brother.

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkira
I find it funny how people relate the half yearly expansions to monthly fees in Guild Wars. Normal MMORPG's have expansions too and while you pay monthly to play the game, you still have to pay for the expansion. On top of that, expansions give people advantages over others who don't have them. The metagame is still Prophecies only skills when it comes to PvP.
It was just a warning to the game designers about losing PvE players like me. I have no problem with PvP. I just want them to provide a quality PvE product along with all the PvP.

Ventius Hozza

Ventius Hozza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

London, UK

Powerpuff Boys [PUFF]

R/

I play PvP regularly, but I have also played PvE extensively. I find that the PvE in Factions is tedious but short. The only reason that I make new characters in Factions is for all the skill points you get in such a quick space of time. (My ele got all the ele elites and had 24 skill points left and reached end game of both P & F within 36 hours, missing out anything before beacons perch).

I don't think that PvP has been treated right. All the open and locked ladder, rating farming has really made GvG's boring now, to the extent that I don't want to see another smiter, thumper or just general gimmick build.

No, I don't have a solution, no, I haven't put my thoughts in an orderly manner, but the above is how I feel, how I feel it.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekkira
I find it funny how people relate the half yearly expansions to monthly fees in Guild Wars. Normal MMORPG's have expansions too and while you pay monthly to play the game, you still have to pay for the expansion. On top of that, expansions give people advantages over others who don't have them. The metagame is still Prophecies only skills when it comes to PvP.
Indeed.And it will only change if NightFall releases some pretty good skills...Unlike Factions did for the Mesmer.

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiemonkie
Its pretty sad you have to whine about that, after all guild wars is a $50 video game, if the video game causes you that much grief you need to be spending some of that money else where.

For each person that bitches about Guild Wars there is an equal amount that bitches about WoW.

So what WoW has a bigger audience, is this not a surprise since its marketted by Microsoft which can easily buy out online media outlets or fork out bigger marketting dollars.

If you think WoW doesn't have its problems, especially with network reliability etc... brother.

Once again I am misquoted. I said that I enjoy Guild Wars Prophecies. It was just a warning to game designers that they won't make any more money off of players like me unless they create a product worth buying by players like me. If you enjoy the new chapters then that's great. But they could please a lot more ppl if they tried just a tad harder.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

MMO's are an asian dominated market...aslong as the asians are happy Anet will keep things ase they are (my veiw)

Kaguya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Moon

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth
Once again I am misquoted. I said that I enjoy Guild Wars Prophecies. It was just a warning to game designers that they won't make any more money off of players like me unless they create a product worth buying by players like me. If you enjoy the new chapters then that's great. But they could please a lot more ppl if they tried just a tad harder.
So you think ANet is intentionally publishing "bad expansions"? They have published only one expansion so far, which was received pretty well in the end.

GW model of PvE isn't really that long lasting, you can beat the PvE story in under a week if you play ~actively, and they really can't prolong it all that much so it doesn't come very repetitive. They can't please everyone, if you don't enjoy the way things are done, there are other games which do things differently, simple as that.

What are you suggesting they improve anyways? What there should be in Nightfall to make you buy and play it?

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
MMO's are an asian dominated market...aslong as the asians are happy Anet will keep things ase they are (my veiw)
I never thought of that.

*Crys because I'm not asian and have no say in the future of Guild Wars*

Snowman

Snowman

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Wales, UK

Devils Scorpions

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth
PvP is the end-game for most repeat buyers. To maintain a large player base, an MMORPG must have quality, well-supported PvE.
How many times must people be told?.. Guildwars is NOT an MMORPG. Its a CORPG as stated on their website.

So it wont and never will follow the structures of other MMO's.

And if your concerned that ANET are not listening to you, try emailing them.

Ventius Hozza

Ventius Hozza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

London, UK

Powerpuff Boys [PUFF]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowman
try emailing them.
many, many times over.

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaguya
What are you suggesting they improve anyways? What there should be in Nightfall to make you buy and play it?
New and evolving high level areas like FoW and UW. Something new every couple of months. Dragon Festivals don't cut it. Plus, these areas must be available to all player regardless of the chapter they own.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth
New and evolving high level areas like FoW and UW. Something new every couple of months. Dragon Festivals don't cut it. Plus, these areas must be available to all player regardless of the chapter they own.
these areas must be available to all player regardless of the chapter they own. <~~this wont happen, Anet is a business and they need to sell units to make profit, to introduce areas open to everyone no matter what chapter they own would be a disaster..u have to factor in the variant of skills available to the individual players.

chap1 players wont have the skills that Nightfall players would this then puts the chap1 players at a big disadvantage

Aisius

Aisius

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Melbourne , Australia

Crazy Clan[CRAZ]

W/

I wouldn't compare GW's to WOW.

WoW is a time sinc and requires grinding in just about all forms of the game and you have to do this to maintain access to content at a competitive lvl.

-GW's you don't need 40 or 20 players to do a raid/Mission. You don't need 6-10 hrs to complete the raid/Mission. You don't need gold to repair items, buy pots, upgrade equipement, shell out on arrows, consumables for raids/playing. I'm trying to stick to the pve side but again you can't even compete in wow for pvp unless you are 1/ Playing end game PvE or 2/are willing to grind PvP endlessly.

-GW's factions from my perspective includes many advances in the PvE component in comparison to Prophercies. Ones I found were
- Merchants inside of zones/area's and quite frequently available to players at the beginning of the map.
-Henchman are all lvl 20 once you pass the newbie area's.
- Missions include a map and pointer type system and the objectives for each mission are easier to track.
-Emphesis on less time sync to complete missions for a master reward.

Unfortunatly I have all the time in the world and at this point in my life can't do alot about it. I suffer from mental illness's and while I enjoy playing games MORPG's , MMO's and RPG I hate investing time in something that brings little reward.

For me after quitting wow which I played for 2.5 years from release, then starting GW's factions and eventually getting the prophercies counterpart. GW's is still better in comparison.

-- To sum up my post(footnotes) GW's obtainable content >wow timesinc.

forelli3600

forelli3600

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Me/

I play GW for pvp and i will keep buying the expansions. Ok they obligate me to buy the expansions because I need the new skills and professions. But I really don't care. I don't see it as buying a bad pve game. I see it as around 90$ a year for a full year of constant pvp action. I play gw for pvp only and to play with my guildmates.
GW has a great pvp communtiy with lots of great guilds and players. Its the best PvP rpg in the world for me and I will keep playing it as long as it has good communtiy and it has and will always have i think.

Big_Iron

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

I always wonder why people who claim to have quit and/or uninstalled the game still troll here. When the day comes that I'm done with GW, I'll be done here as well.

I also think it's funny how some PvPers (not all) think this game is made with PvPers in mind exclusvely. I have nothing against PvP or the people who play it, but I've never played PvP and have no interest in it. I've been playing GW for over a year and have been perfectly satisfied with PvE. So it makes me wonder why someone would make a statement like,

Quote:
PvE was added to give the PvP ppl some light relief/entertainment when they were not in a GvG/HoH battle
This is highly inaccurate. Anet puts a lot of work and effort into PvE. This statement is so far off, I'm beginning to think the poster must have been joking. It was never meant to be a distraction for PvPers.

Sorry for straying off topic, but I had to get that off my chest first. Now to be on topic.

I sense frustration in the OP's post, but I can't entirely disagree with it. I've enjoyed Factions and finished it three times now. But when I created a new character last week, I made it in Prophecies. To me, it feels like more of a complete game than Factions did. I know Anet sold Factions as a full, stand alone game, but I thought it felt more like a fairly sizable expansion.

Now that I've had a taste of Anet's model with Factions, I wont be the first in line to buy Nightfall this time. I'm going to have a wait and see attitude. If people love it, I'll buy it. Otherwise, I'll be happily playing back in Tyria.

KurtTheBehemoth

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

tubbyville

Kurt's Royal Guardians

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
these areas must be available to all player regardless of the chapter they own. <~~this wont happen, Anet is a business and they need to sell units to make profit, to introduce areas open to everyone no matter what chapter they own would be a disaster..u have to factor in the variant of skills available to the individual players.

chap1 players wont have the skills that Nightfall players would this then puts the chap1 players at a big disadvantage
You are absolutely correct. They should be available to individual chapters. That was my mistake. But the content doesn't exist in the first place. That is what my major problem is.

Aisius

Aisius

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Melbourne , Australia

Crazy Clan[CRAZ]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtTheBehemoth
But the content doesn't exist in the first place. That is what my major problem is.
The content is in Prophercies. PvP is a staple for most of these types of games and imo a selling point. I enjoy pvp and I enjoy it more in GW's than any other game I know of. I enjoy pve too and still have alot left in prophercies and the faction elites. I think another thing to consider is that from my experience GW's has allowed me to explore every profession in greater detail, other games I've played have not.

IAmAI

IAmAI

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

UK

Oasis Avengers

N/

I am a PvE only player and I agree with KurtTheBehemoth in part, to the extent that I prefer Prophecies PvE to what I have played of Factions so far. However, I have not lost faith in ANet because I appreciate the fact we all differing tastes and that you and I simply dislike Factions as opposed to there being something inherently poor about Factions. This is evident by the number of players that have expressed that they like Factions. There is no evidence of an unanimous dislike or outcry towards the quality of Factions.

I hope, therefore, you will realise that ANet are not at fault - it is impossible to please everyone and unfortunately for us, we have the short straw this time. Yes, by all means it is possible that ANet may make Nightfall against your taste, however, unless they make an unanimous poor PvE in Nightfall (which I seriously doubt), it would be your own fault - ANet can't control your tastes nor can they cater for your exact taste - ANet can only suit the majority. Therefore, it is good to express your tastes so they can get an idea of what their audience likes, as you have done, however to blame them for not making the game to your exact taste or accuse them of bad business, as you have also done, is unfair.

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

Also, if I might add, if levels were not an issue in standard MMORPGs, the game would be just as short if not shorter than Factions. Most of the MMORPG PvE content is just full of grind, there really isn't that much content when you look at it, just grind.

Arenanet created the game to be grind free (for the most part) so people could focus on their skill and the end game of PvP. How do you make a game with this in mind longer? More development time imo.

gojensen

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

GrNO

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
guild wars was never intended for PvE only ppl, PvE was added to give the PvP ppl some light relief/entertainment when they were not in a GvG/HoH battle
I thought that was the other way around... GW was a PVE game where they added PvP to give players more to do when they had finished the "story".

So far I much prefer Prophecies. I loathed being "forced" to play with another party in Vizunah. I loathed the idea of being "tricked" into PvPing with the Fort Aspenwood "quest". If stuff like this continues in Chapter 3, that's atleast US$70 less for Arenanet (as I would've gotten the Collector's Edition).

Thing is... I believe that most PvE'rs just play the game, they don't frequent boards to get the perfect builds and what not... so I'm tempted to think that a majority of the "fans" on these communities are PvPers. While I don't think that's true in reality.

At least, jumping around on the PvE map and then going to the PvP map I don't see lots of more players there. Actually I would say I see less players in the PvP players.

Maybe that's just Europe perhaps...

shardfenix

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

Guild wars is a pvp game. If you don't like guild wars pve, play WoW.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by gojensen
I thought that was the other way around... GW was a PVE game where they added PvP to give players more to do when they had finished the "story".

...
that is true.

JEFF STRAIN stated that in an interview very clearly.

pvp was added to be the logical result of finishing the PVE

EDIT

Quote:
Guild Wars started life as a role-playing game, and we continue to support that very strongly. Our goal was always for the PvP aspect to be played after you’ve built up your character and played through the role-playing content

sinican

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

SAW

D/

why do ppl still continue to try and compare a $50 free online play game with a pay per month online game...

its a choice to spend $50 every 6 months on the next chapter its not required...

compare GW to games like D2 is more realistic...

when you start demanding more content then you need to expect monthly fees...

there are players that paid $50 for a single chapter and still play after a year plus...

I am completely content with a game like this... i dont pay a monthly fee so there isnt that demand on me to play because i dont feel that im wasting mony maintaining a pay per month game to keep my account.. i simply bought a game that i can play online whenever i like i can take a month break come back and i havent wasted any money...

forelli3600

forelli3600

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

Me/

Quote:
uote:
Originally Posted by gojensen
I thought that was the other way around... GW was a PVE game where they added PvP to give players more to do when they had finished the "story".

...



that is true.

JEFF STRAIN stated that in an interview very clearly.

pvp was added to be the logical result of finishing the PVE

Doesnt matter what is was ment to be. Fact is that you can find better pve content in other games and that you can't find better pvp content on other games.

Poison Ivy

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

I so want to abuse the OP...

Marketing ruins quality

So keep it shut.

Satai Katalya

Satai Katalya

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

anywhere in GW

ONL Our Name is Legion

Mo/Me

Personally I start all my characters as pve and develop them so they can be highly effective in pvp. I highly enjoy the pvp variations GW has introduced with factions and find the chance to vary what I do in GW to be refreshing.

milias

milias

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defected back to America

Me/E

I hope this isn't going to turn into another PvE vs. PvP thread. Anyhow, I play PvE mostly, but I dabble in PvP time from time. I especially liked the Alliance Battles, I think it was a good attempt to mesh PvE and PvP; however, I think I may be in the minority on this.

Sarevok Thordin

Sarevok Thordin

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Scotland

W/N

Anet has made GWs exactly the kind of online game I want


- No pressure to play (No monthly fee)
- International PvP
- Highly Balanced PvP
- Some PvE
- Instanced Areas (No morons coming to grief you)

the list goes on, but GWs manages to remain fun and complex.

Not like the other game out there that is just too darn easy but so darn grindey.

Count to Potato

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

I expect the content in Nightfall to be more prophecies like, especially with the repeating story of the Elonians guildwars can expand the maps and increase the higehr level areas

Sekkira

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar
that is true.

JEFF STRAIN stated that in an interview very clearly.

pvp was added to be the logical result of finishing the PVE
To be more precise, The game was created originally to take PvE characters into PvP. Of course that ruins the whole concept of skill over time played and the PvP creation screen was added on one of the beta weekends.

Silent Kitty

Silent Kitty

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Netherlands

[TYW] "The Young World"

A/Me

I like Nightfall to have more pve content and storyline, and preferable lower lvl monsters. The opposite will prolly happen