The Haves and the Have Nots...

LoL, that's a good point! Please excuse me for the faux paux

On topic, though, I think ANet is trying to make GW less dependent on the cash economy, and making it easier for new players to get up to speed, in terms of gear and other stuff. This may prove detrimental to existing players who have accrued any sort of wealth, but they need to keep drawing in new players to replenish their player base. So I guess you could say they're trading in-game economics for good real-life economics.

Your point is well taken. In the end, I don't care what Anet does. It was nice have a +5nrg FDS before they became a common item. It was nice to have a 15% FFS, just because I happened to buy one for FoW farming in the Prot Bond days. But that is really all that it was... nice.

this isnt the place to ask for that...

Oh and by teh way, not every person who has fow gets it on ebay, and the reason they dont tell you How did they get their fow is not because they got it in ebay,

Its because quite honestly, people got better things to do then explaining to others how they get their cash when guru and wiki has 100+ ways.

a recent conversation.

unknown user blind PMs me out of nowhere:

unknown user: youre rich

me: that depends on your definition of rich. (my most used comment when prompted with the above)

unknown user: how did you make so much money

me: i was a trader

uknown user: what did you trade

me: various things

unknown user: like what

me: gold items, dyes, runes, mods, etc

unkown user: which ones

me: ...

yeah, as if i remember all of the 1,000+ (guestimation excluding dyes, runes, mats) items that have ever exchanged hands with me.
bascially he was just fishing for a "buy this item and resell it over and over and you will make millions!" type of idiotic answer.

Yea, I'm not very big on items anymore. It is somewhat disheartening to see your items getting nerfed over and over again, though. But I guess it's true what they say, all good things come to an end.

Akhileus anyone who has fow feels your pain, even if they dont know who you are (i dont got not even 20% of the stuff you got) they just PM you and DEMAND you to tell them how to get 10000k in 2 hours and if you dont you're a noob ebayer -_- lol

When I got my first "P" I thought Man I can buy some good armor!
But then I got passed pre and realized man I'll never have enough gold! Until I saw people advertising they would run you for a price and I noticed all the trading going on. It took me what seemed liked weeks to make the first "P" but once you start running ppl for gold and selling your good drops it doesn't take long to make a good amount of gold.

Think about these farming sweat shops where ppl work 10 hours a day to make GW gold to sell it to ebay'ers. If they can farm or make enough gold to keep them in a real world business then it is certianly possible for any person to farm, or run to make enough gold for their armor, dyes and weapons.'

I have been playing just under a year and I have managed my FOW armor already. It all depends on how much time you have, how game smart you are and your level of dedication.

I believe anyone who accomplished FOW armor in under 4 months is a ebay'er. Anyone close to a year could be legit.

Simply ask them for thier /age. Most noobs will be proud to say 4 months thinking they are bragging about their status and skill with thier FOW armor. When all the experienced players realize its just not likely accomplising FOW in such a short time is possible.

i got mine, in under 4 weeks, and i wont touch ebay with a 10 foot pole.
different people make money at different rates. some farmers are more successful than others, some traders are more successful than others, some runners are more successful than others, etc.
while getting FoW legitimatly is commendable as i wont doubt MOST people who have it didnt (and you can tell farily easily...because they tend to be lazy imbicils), i will say this. just because you, or any other person who got it legitimatly couldnt do so in a certain timespan, doesnt mean noone can.

Enough with this kind of bullshit. When I used to run, I made enough for a set of FoW in a weekend. When factions came out, I made enough for 3 sets of Fow in 10-days. So basically what I am saying is, use the mass that is between your ears before you typing rubbish (the rest of your post was decent).

I rest my case.

feel free to ask any of the half dozen people in my guild how well i was doing in trades at that time.
or even better; ask any of the 150 odd traders who know me as a household name and talk to me on a regular basis, as well of the legions of people who dont know me, but certainly know my reputation as a trader.
hell, i still remember the item that made me my first 100k (it was actually 93k, but thats not the point)
if that doesnt satisfy you, simply ask any high-end trader who frequents guru.

i have more than enough references who can tell you about the carreer i held as a very, very successful trader to deter this kind of blatant ignorance. you say you've been playing a year? that means, before you even started playing, i was one of the most well-known traders in the games ring of well-connected wealthy players. back in the day when if you knew the right person you could sell nearly anything, in minutes.

Try legitimately in 10 days. That was how long it took for my first set. Hell, off one legit purchase requiring 60k I could buy 4 sets and that took me all of 5 minutes work. I doubt people can get fow armor as quick as before as everything is worth less though.

I am speachless you think anyone who gets fow armor in a month ebayed it. I used to make 100k a day doing drok runs (15-20k a party) so thats 1 million gold in 10 days and fow armor roughly costs that. Even farming at 10k an hour for 5 hours a day pre anti farm code could get you fow armor in 20 days, so thats two sets in a month. If you cant figure out how to get gold quickly and easily then I pity you and your lack of intelligence as making gold is easy. When I dled gw a few days ago I zoned into lions arch bought an item for 25k and its worth 100k in my first few minutes of playing gw in a month.

Personally, I have never been big on FoW armor, well, except for the female Mesmer one, which I'm actually considering getting. But if you can make 400k on a single trade, it shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Again, FoW armor is personal preference, but please don't make personal accusations on EBaying here, this is not the place for that kind of stuff.

I have to agree with you on certain things when I first started way back when the economy was great people where selling things at resonable prices until they came across green items and crafting material for high lvl armor prices went up the roof and over. Things started to sell for 50k-100k and was way to much to a point they forced people like me to create a farming character just to get items for my own purposes instead of paying those crazy prices.

Just like now if Nightfall they have made another price issue with the white dye selling for 10k on up, stolen armor and ancient armor for heroes 20k on up because if you cant find a group which is most of the time it is a pain trying to take along heores and henchs and get to a certain point and die. And now some of the new armor requires some very pricey material like the FoW armor.

This is why gold farmers stay in business because other people make it hard for say a casual player to truely enjoy the perks of a game if prices are way out of the park and your character becomes gimped because of it.

Since I have played almost one year I thought I was taking your side on this but I guess I misunderstood.

3 sets of FOW in 10 days! Including all the material needed?
I find that hard to believe. That would be about 300 ecto, 300 shards and other material. Did you sleep in those 10 days?

Look, I am not saying you are lying. I have never attemtped to accomplish 3 sets in 10 days so I can't say if it is possible or not but, I can't see how it is possible. I consider myself to be fairly game smart. I just can't see how thats possible. To be fair I only play PvE so perhaps I am missing a big part of the game that I can cash in on.

One other point. I take saveral days off from GW sometimes even weeks out of bordem. I guess that can attribute to my thinking that it takes more then 4 months. But, don't get me wrong. I made my statement and I will stand by it I am not back peddling until I am proven wrong and I will at that time admit I was wrong (like a man).


/edit
I have decide to determine if I am wrong or if you are wrong, with simple math. Here is how it breaks down.
This does NOT take into account the third rare crafting material or common material needed.

120 Ecto = 720p (assume you bought at a low price 6k each)
120 Shards = 360p (assume the average rate of 3k each)
Crafing Price =75k (assume full set)

total = 1155p+ (not including common material and 3rd rare material).
1155 * 3 = 3465p+ (needed for 3 sets)

3465 / 10(days) = 346.5p+ ( you need to make more then 346 platinum per day).
346 / 24 (hours) = 14.4p+ (you need to make more the 14 platinum per hour if you played 24 hours straight for 10 days)

Lets assume you play 10 hours per day as 24 hours a day is not likely.
346/10 = 34.6 (if you play 10 hours a day for 10 days you need to make over 34 platinum an hour)

So, I concede. Is it possible? Yes (I will admit that)
Is it likely? No!

Now lets consider the time factor.
Just getting into a group and running to the crafter takes time so if you play 10 hours a day tack on another 3 hours just to go get your armor. 1 hour per set.

I don't have that kind of time and I can't imagine most people spend 10+ hours a day playing unless they have nothing else going on in thier life.

In the end I will concede to your point. I will assume you are an honorable person and you did indeed make enough for 3 sets of armor is 10 days.

Herbalizer claim that he can buy 4 sets in 5 minutes worth of work. Well, I don't believe him and I think he is drinking too much drawven ale!

Oh! how is this for using the mass between my ears? There was no need to insult me.

I dont care if you believe me or not. I paid 60k for a weapon which just over a month ago was offered 500 ecto for. The thread is on guru somewhere which shows the offer. Now the time it took to purchase the weapon and get offers amounted to a matter of minutes. Therefore I could have made 500 ecto for a few minutes work. I doubt I could ever replicate what I did but I did it.. So therefore from one trade I could obtain around 4 sets (I think) of fow armor which according to you is impossible and I must either be lying or an ebayer. I have therefore proven that your statement that anyone who gets fow armor in under a year is an ebayer is wrong.

I have shown how through power trading you could obtain fow armor very quickly. Akhellius did alot of trading but you hinted on him ebaying. Please dont throw around ebay accusations when you cannot work out how to get fow armor quickly and easily. Some traders get very lucky and from just one item could obtain several sets of fow armor. Chaos theory pvp paid I think 400k for a r9 15%-5energy dwarven axe which at one point had 800 ish ecto offers on it. But I guess he ebayed it because noone can make gold that quickly....

How about runners. One I know made I think in the region of 250 ecto (or around that) in two days. O but wait, I bet he is lying.....

If you're a runner, that's very possible. At one point, the Forge run was 3k a head, so with 5 other people, that's 15k. Also, you could run all of Southern Shiverpeaks for around 10k a head, which is 70k with 7 other people. Neither one takes more than an hour, if the runner is good.

here's the general rule of thumb: the more money you have, the more money you can make.

for those who have it, money will literally grow on trees. for those who don't, you have to grind a bit to get the money required. having more money will allow you to move more items of larger value. for example, having 60k allowed herbalizer to make 500 ectos. if he didn't have that, he won't have the ectos.

If you can do two forge runs in an hour at 15k per group allowing 5 mins to get the party that is 30k in an hour. So it would take 3 hours and 25 minutes to make 105k. But lets say competition from rival runners, net errors, scammers, failed runs with people leaving makes it 4 hours and 30 minutes. That is still alot of gold in a short time span. So in 10 days thats around 1 million gold. This was exactly how I got my necro fow armor. I had a whole afternoon off every day so spent my time doing drok runs until early evening. Now drok runs suck as everyone thinks they can do it and charge like 1-2k per person which is not exactly worth your time.

I have two sets. The first set took about 1.5 months of UW duo-farming. I sold the drops to merchants, traded the excess ecto for shards, and already had enough gold and mats for the rest (had been playing a year by then). The second set took 1.5 weeks of UW solo-farming, selling various items via Guru trader, and trading excess ecto for shards. Working on a third set now, which is taking longer because of the recent nerf. Once you make your mind up to do what's necessary to get Fissure, it's not that hard. Sadly, there are many people out there who want the reward without doing the work. Sucks to be them.

I already conceded that it is possible. So I am not sure where you are going with this.

DUDE! 500 ecto's! That's insane. Either this is a "I once caught a fish" story or
give me that guys name I have a bridge to sell him!

If you can provide a link to the auction I'd like to see that! That's 3 million gold or 3000 platinum at 6k per ecto (low end) 4500 platinum at 9k per ecto high end.

Thats insane!

applause ***

500 ecto is by far not the most expensive an item can reach.
the fact that that number surprizes you is precicely why you find it hard to believe its legitimate for someone to get FoW in a matter of weeks from starting off with absolutly nothing. i would hazard a guess that capitalist, herbalizer, milias (and i know this goes for myself) will not trade for an item to make a profit off of it, unless the profit is substantial enough to justify the time involved in reselling it. for me, i will not trade for an item, unless i can make at least 100k off of it, passivly selling it, in about a week or less. its just not worth the time or risk otherwise.
in order to meet these requirements, such item would probably have to be worth 500k-1mil. this is just to give you an idea of the kind of profit can be made by exactly the kind of trader you recently accused of ebaying.
i have 7 items worth 500ecto+, 3 of these could reach over 1,000ecto (granted 1 is customized).
the single largest profit i made off any one item was 950 ecto, followed by the 450 ecto profit i made off of a r8 15% stance serpant axe. i knew the guy who wanted it, i knew what he wanted and how much he was willing to pay, and i found someone selling the same thing for far less.
did i make most of my money form a few "lucky" trades? absolutly not (ive had about a dozen lucky trades that led to 50-300% profit margins, but these are few and far between).
the vast of my wealth came from trading large amounts items worth 200-600k, with a 10-30% profit margin. in fact, you'll find, the more a person relies on luck over ability, the more liekly to be less successful they will be.

Yeah, imagine that! Not wanting to work in a game! A game that one spends time playing to have fun! The hubris!

Fissure armor is fine, there's a place for it in the game and certain people like the kind of grind entailed to gain it. I don't have to have Fissure armor to play, I'm happy with 1.5k or 15k armors.

When that high end so-called "economy" starts impinging upon the play of casual players like myself, however, that's where the problems start. Things like black (and now white) dye or superior vigor runes. Some of these things have an impact on the gameplay, some don't, but they're easily available and should be within the price range of any player. The single solitary thing that keeps them from being so is the oversaturation of gold in the market from the super high end rich. There is no valid reason why black dye should cost as much as 10k a vial; only the greed of certain players keeps it so. The fix is really simple too; all ANet needs to do is increase the drops, introduce hard caps and infinite stock in the trader, and viola, problem solved.

Capitalism doesn't work in the game because the environment is too small and insular and the commodities are too limited.

dang thats expensive items.

btw i once worked out the cost of fow armour for a friend, and how much it would cost on ze ebay gold. (to buy all the materials, crafting cost etc) think it was £30-40 (50-70ish dollars). so even if you go the ebay gold route, its alot of (real) money, much more than most would spend/invest.

ebay gold has mostly effected item costs, if you just used ebay gold say for crafting armour (u already had material) then it doesnt effect the economy. the purchasing of weapons and mini pets, thats where its effected the economy, and to a certain extent why some are so rich (even if they dont ebay), as the funds are avalible for higher prices, it creates a visious circle...

tbh we needs a modifcations trader. that would help stabilze the market alot.

Look, I am not saying anyone is lying but I have to see a link to one of the auctions myself. You are right it surprises me. I can't believe someone will shell out 1000 ectos. Thats just stupidity on thier part. Until I see a link I just wrap my mind around and can't believe it.

In fact I am so convinced that no one can prove this I am almost tempted to pony up 100 ecto to first person who provides a link proving someone paid 500 ecto's. ALMOST but not yet willing.

To spydergst1:

Although you have played for a year, it appears you don't know anything about buying and selling items, and definitely don't know any of the famous traders on this site. I'm telling you that they aren't lying and that you shouldn't post any more idiotic accusations of ebaying about people whom you don't even know. Basically, using no knowledge of rich people, I could say... hmm... I have no idea how they got rich... they must... use hacks! Yes that must be it! *goes off to post total BS that I just came up with*

If you have any other arguments about how "hard" it is to get rich, I suggest you work hard at any of the several methods that have been suggested (yes it still takes *gasp* time, it's not just free money) and then see just how rich you can get.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10054638
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10049559
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10063296
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...47#post2115047
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post1853766
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...t=89574&page=2


i currently own the 14% no condition serpent axe mentioned in some of the above threads.

i could provide probably over 100 other links if i had to dig for them, these are just the oens that are still on my favs list from when i was interested in bidding on them.

You've taken my quote out of context. I'm referring to the people who EBay their Fissure rather than working for it (read: earn it). For the record, I enjoy playing the game, but I also enjoy the challenge of getting the goods together for the Fissure. Why? Because my toons deserve it after countless hours spent helping friends/guildies do the same missions over and over. Talk about work.

If it takes anyone 4 months to earn enough money for fow armor they are doing something wrong.

An acomplished trader can make millions in a single trade like Akh stated..

I think the question some people need to stop and ask themselves is "Why am I buying this?" Don't expect to have much prestige from FoW armor (again, the eBayers are ruining it) or your perfect Sundering Fellblades of Fotitude, because items are completely dissassociated from skill in Guild Wars, not to mention that in many cases (Sundering, for example) the majority of players are ignorant of the actual workings of the game and promote inferior items for a non-existant "prestige" factor.

Good grief, man. I went through all of those. All I can say is I'm not worthy. I consider myself a decent trader and have accumulated a decent number of perfect items that I like and use in pvp but the items I've obtained simply don't compare to those ones. That serpent axe is pretty sweet, btw. I just hope Anet doesn't decide to go through and nerf all of the unconditionals. Hell, they've already done it to rockmolders, HoD swords (both of which I owned), 15 ffs, 55 axe, and have screwed over collectors in various ways by increasing the drop frequency of perfect items.

Lets hope that Anet decides to keep a few things in the game that are cool and rare.

Lol yeah Akh has some nice stuff.

I don't think ANet is in the business of changing gold (random) items, for whatever reason. They haven't done so in the past, and I have no reason to believe they'll start doing so in the future.

So what you are telling us is that traders are legit because they only make their money selling things to ebayers, they are not ebaying themselves?

If you think about it from ArenaNet's perspective, there's not much point in them tracking down every single "unconditional" gold drop. Getting rid of the greens and collectors items is easy because they're all the same, but the individual golds would be a pain to track down and are rare enough that they don't create very much imbalance.

Where did Akh say that? Just because people pay full price for an item dont necessarily make them an ebayer. Today I spent 400k on an item I am after as I havnt got the time to sit around waiting for weeks on end to get it for say 300k. There are plenty of non power traders with millions of gold who pay full price for stuff.

Could be a problem if the owners are in the top PvP guilds. Then they'd hold an unfair advantage over other players in more important matches.

Merchants needn't feel guilty about other people ebaying. They're smart for taking advantage of the ignorant, which sounds extreme but it isn't.

Genuine Farmer: Takes 2-4 weeks of hard work to earn a million and, therefore, values his/her gold greatly.

Ebayer: Takes a few minutes for someone to hand over a million in exchange for his pocket money and is more careless with his cash. "I can always buy a million next week when daddy gives me money."

Besides, not all wealthy people Ebay. Most people like Akhilleus deal with those top high-end trades such as crystallines and dwarvens whereas other people are efficient farmers or profiteer from lower-end trading (such as buying sword pommels +30 for 40k and selling for 60k). Also, like The Herbalizer, running was once a big money maker.