Skill Unlocks in the Guild Wars Store!

that is a bad trend...
i also think that the high price for these unlocks could be a bad trend too.
not that i want to buy UAS, but i still cant believe they'd charge this much for these.

This was a great move.

A couple people who were thinking about playing GW to join us in PvP, but didn't want to deal with all the unlocking stuff, are now interested in playing the game.

I don't understand how anyone can say this is a bad trend.

We wanted this; the price is a bit higher than some might like, but say you make eight dollars an hour, and just bought Nightfall. You love it, and want to PvP more, but don't want to spend forever to get there. For forty dollars you can get full core+prophecies unlocks. You don't need to buy prophecies to do this - you don't need to spend the money twice; sure, you don't get to explore Tyria, but you can still buy other chapters to explore, and if you feel like PvEing you can buy Prophecies later anyway. But for 5 hours of work (pay) you have access to your whole set of skills from 6 classes, which would take probably 200+ hours of play to grind out, and the forty dollars to buy the game anyway. For a PvPer entering in Nightfall or Factions that's a sweet deal.

I am glad for it, it sounds pretty good to me - though I'd like it if it came with the rune/item unlocks, as you aren't PvP ready till you have those.

(Note - I actually like my unlocking, and have full unlock from combined PvP/PvE - I enjoy both, so I'm not a PvP-only person making that remark - but I can totally see why people would want this, and it hurts nobody. It is 100% voluntary, gets you nothing you can't get with a few hundred hours work in game, doesn't alter the economy and really doesn't affect anyone except the player. Good move ANet!)

how do i expect him to play. we'll if he really wants to, he can fork out $160 extra bucks for the needed skills. *rollseyes*

...And all you do is bitch about peoples concerns! i say enough

The fact that this thread reached 20 pages in less then 24 hours, and the numerous posts by Gaile Gray justifying the addition, indicate that there is a huge amount of controversy among this issue.
While many may agree that this is a legimate option, many others such as myself beleive that this is a line Anet vowed never to cross.
Realisticly, aquiring skills the regular way is not that hard- players who will buy are the skills are those who are lazy and rich.
On the other hand, those who object to this update are people who earned their skills by being good players.
Anet decision is leading them down a path which the gaming community will consist of more lazy rich people (undoubtfully many of them 'noobs'). Skillfull players who object to this option and earned their skills traditionally will abandon the game and not purchase Nightfall (such as myself, and friends and many of the posters in this thread).
Thus, the GW community will consist of more 'noobs' and less mature players.

Eh, personally why buy a game if you don't intend to play it the way it was meant to be played? Online RPG's have always been grinds. Whether its for xp, gold, items, skills whatever. Dunno I enjoy actually earning the faction or gold to unlock stuff. Makes me feel that my hours of playing aren't completely pointless.

To each there own. I did read some of the reasons people posted for this, and its reasonable. As stated somewhere in this 21 pages, by chapter five there will be over 1000 skill and someone just picking up the game will have a tough time catching up. Or for you pvp only players, meh who needs ya :P j/k

I think this is great for those who don't have time to cap all the skills available out there. But it's like a double-edge sword, the downside is that almost everyone now has a chance to get all the pvp skills.

I think it's a great idea. I've unlocked and capped tons of skills for every profession except for ranger. I think I'll purchase the unlocks for that class. Yeah, sounds good and will save me tons of time for unlocking.

its a double edge sword because it should have been available from the beginning or not at all. your "Casual" pvp players that didnt have the time to aquire full skill unlock now can, but for anyone who wanted to be a casual pvp player in the past year and a half, well heres a shaft for ya.

while after thinking about it and reading some justifiable opinons online and talkign to friends, i do agree with this, just not how it was implimented. and in some ways i can see where it is comparable to buying things from other sites, etc... to try to just "jump" ahead of the curve, but the only difference here is that buy a pvp player buying skills from the online store, it doesnt affect the economy of the game or the state of the game whereas buying gold would. if u think prices are inflated now, imaging what they would be if they allowed you to legally purchase gold...

EXACTLY.

you left off the only other alternative which is spend 200 dollars and the amount of time it takes to unlock the previous 4 chapters as well as the one he got.

do you know anybody who has the time to unlock 5 chapters (my example) worth of skills?

for someone who enters the game a few chapters in the future can you see them buying 4 additional chapters and spending the unlock time on them?

on the other hand they may buy the game and the skill lines they need to add to what they have.

Overall, a good idea and a smart one for Anet.

Straight PvE'ers are unaffected. They enjoy playing to unlock skills and won't buy it.

Straight PvPer's are blessed. They have no desire to grind out all skill unlocks. They choose to buy or not determining whether they can "afford" it.

The price seems high because they are not shafting those who already own Prophecies and already put the time in to unlock. The newer pure PvP players are still basically paying for Prophecies w/o actually getting the game. Noone feels slighted, and most important, it is OPTIONAL.

Only PvP grind-tards are against it. They do not want to see a level playing field. That would mean skill could actually be the determining factor, a dire prospect for many.

I also think its a measuring tool for Anet on what direction to take this game and future games. If they make a bundle off of this they will assume that PvP is the absolute way to go. If it fails, they might think otherwise. It's a win-win for them as opposed to guage what the masses really want by listening to the rants of the few on a forum that makes them no money.

The bottom line is still, "money talks". They didn't make this game because they know people like to play on-line games.

Think about it and enjoy!

Rich? It's one day's pay at 5 dollars an hour (and some of us make more than that, too...). And if you don't care about PvE, it's the same cost as buying the game, so instead of paying 40 dollars for a game you don't care to play and spending 200 hours getting the skill, spend the money on the unlocks.

Predjudiced much? I'm a good player, and I don't object.

No it won't. "skillful players" won't care - it doesn't affect PvE in the slightest, so PvE players could care less, and skilled PvP players will welcome the influx of players this might bring, and may even opt to save time on chapters themselves. Only those who've somehow convinced themselves that skills are "earned" and value their achievements in game because of the time invested (hello Cognitive Dissonance) will care.

I figure the only people threatened by it are those that derive their idea of self worth from mundane accomplishments like having unlocked skills.
Hehe, I was trying to be polite about it. Yeah, those who can only win because of better gear objected to PvP equipment. Those who can only win because of having elites unlocked railed against unlocking. Those who only won in games like D2 and WoW by having "godly" gear and being max level keep whining about the level cap.

The accessibility of top level play is the principle on which the game was founded. Skill, not hours spent. This is FINALLY being done, and is a good move.

As for those who worry because now others will have unlocks...grow up. Bullying was never cool, and wanting to beat people because you have better skill unlocks is essentially that - it's like the moronic twinking at Ascalon arena. Learn to play the game, enjoy the competition. You'll see better games, with opponents sporting more varied skills possibly - since you can unlock everything you can try everything.

They should just release a "stand alone PvP only edition" of each game, for slightly lower pricer than the regular edition. In other words, it comes with no PvE content at all, just the PvP side of things, fully unlocked.

If that's what this is equivalent to, then it's overpriced (same price as regular edition but without all the PvE content and just paying to skip grind)

If you still need to buy Prophecies as well as the skill pack (not sure if that's the case) then it's even more overpriced.

Personally I'm just waiting to see what starts to get offered up in the store next, if it ends up like Oblivion where things like S.F. and new items/equipment etc. become a thing of the past unless you pay for them.

Why do you need to unlock all the chapters? You can use only 8 skills.

That brings up the question, why was grind introduced in the first place then? If it was truly supposed to be about the skills why was there any need to grind for faction/gold-to-unlock skills? Even more appropriate if the original form of the game had all skills available for PvP to begin with? But was then changed to make the grind happen... and then sell back that original functionality? I guess the question is, if it was really just about the skill/s why weren't all the skills made available to start with, instead of adding the grind element to it, then charging to remove it?

For somebody to come into the world of GW PVP at chapter 5 and be competetive (as is what they're trying to accomplish at with this update), he would have to buy chapter 5 ($40), then purchase the skill unlocks for the core professions (+$40) and of course he can't do without the chapter 2,3 & 4 professions which he doesn't have yet (+$120), oh ya and since he bought the skill unlocks for the core professions he'll be buying the skill unlocks for the 6 new professions he just purchased (+$60), and he's still left with the time to unlock the skills for chapter 5... unless at that time they have available the skill unlocks for chapter 5, then he'll just buy them (+$20).

Now let me reverse that question on you... Do you think that people will actually fork out the money ($280) just to be competetive in a silly game? I'll help you with that... Yes, there will be those people that will.. but i can bet you that the number won't be high. I'll bet it won't even be as high as the number of people there is out that that would rather unlock they're own skills. But... it's up to them.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have this option... but the price is ridiculous.

Upon further reflection, I've decided that it's not a big deal, and it actually furthers the philosophy of GW as being a "no-grind" game, and enhances the commercial viability of the game.

I'm paraphrasing Smitty a bit here; as we know this game has a few distinct player bases:

PvP-only players
PvE-only players
Hybrid Players

The PvP-only players want to be able to use a particular build out of the gate. The prebuilt PvP characters are of limited use with the builds that are being used today. So, before these "Skill Pack" sales, a PvP-only player was forced to grind through the PvP arenas in order to get enough Balt's Faction to unlock the skills and items that they need to be effective. We all know that regardless of the build you use, you need practice and a thorough understanding of the build to be effective. The skill packs provide the tools, but the player still needs to learn how to use the tools. Impact? Negligable.

The PvE players aren't really impacted, apart from being able to twink a character with a particular build right out of the gate (since the skill vendors make any unlocked basic skill available.) You still have to cap elite skills, which is really where the game is. And personally, if there is a skill quest in Prophesies that allows me to earn a particular skill I want, I'll go do the quest, even if I can just buy it at Drok's, because I want to save the gold. Impact? Negligable.

The hybrid player plays PvE with the intent of capturing skills for PvP. This player is interested in playing both aspects of the game. For the most part, the hybrid player is going to play the game like a PvE player, and cap the skills required for a PvP build. This kind of player has probably been playing for a while, and can already field the build required for a particular PvP engagement, as well as being able to use the build effectively. Impact? Negligable.

We all have to remember that we don't pay a monthly fee to play GW, and I sincerely doubt that just selling periodic expansions is covering the total cost of development. Remember that even in the subscription-based games, you still have to buy the expansion, PLUS the monthly fee. My friend who plays WoW spends over $220/year to play the game on a single account ($12/month, plus about $45 for the base game, $35 for expansions.) We're getting GW for a song, in comparison. The extras that are available in the on-line store are enhancements, but none of them are a REQUIREMENT to continue to play the game. You can just plop down your $45 for one of the chapters, and never spend any money again. You don't NEED the extra music. I bought it anyway, because I happen to like the music written for GW.

So, I've decided that if selling these skill packs allow Anet to continue developing GW, I'm all for it.

-M

[QUOTE]i agree completely on that and will even guess your low figures are optomistic.

as for the price i read a Gaile response that you may need the game to buy the unlocks which would make that price even worse.

last post Gaile said she would check to see if the chapter was needed as well as the unlocks.

that would bring it up to 80-90 dollars a chapter or,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

400-450 dollars

how does that tickle your fancy?

Could all of this have been avoided if they just increased the amount of faction you get in PVP battles...or hell why not just give everyone unlocks on PVP characters? I LIKE FREE!!!! thats why i'm playing Guild Wars in the first place, no monthly FEE, FREE TO PLAY!!!!....MORE FREE PLS!

The hardcore players with more time to play Guild Wars will always be able to get things faster than casual players, why not just speed that process up of acquiring faction and unlocking all skills on your account by double, tripple, quadruple the amount of faction earned in PVP battles...

Scrap the idea exclusive skills for classes in each expansion and start having those new skills up for sale as well on the NPC trainer in towns who sells skills...new elites i don't know how much trouble it would be to add bosses in the original game to acquire these ---> Entice PVP players to buy expansion packs by adding new PVP gametypes like Factions has alliance battles

A.NET had to have known in the future where these exclusive skills for each expansion would lead to new players having a hard time to get involved with PVP...they could have gone the FREE route but I guess everyone just throws its a business excuse and that makes it alright for them to be going this $40.00 unlock route.

New players are STILL going to have to buy the first game, buy factions, buy nightfall AND then buy unlocks for each expansion if they want UAX in PVP to start off with...thats like $150 for all 3 games, $120 for 3 game unlocks...how enticing is that to the new player wanting to get involved in PVP right away?

This is something ive wanted

But im a little bitter that its come so late, and its a high price. Personally im not that against it (other than the cost), but im not buying it because i have something like 95% of non elites unlocked and 30-40% elites unlocked, it wouldnt feel like a sensible spend. If it had come sooner, or id know it was coming id probably not bothered to grind skills (which is how it felt), instead waiting to buy them, but shiz happens.

Personally i dont see it as much as of incentive to new players, everybody(well "them" people) will feel that unlockes really help you be competative, whether you want to argu if thats correct or not dont matter, because thats how they will feel.

Hey buy guild wars, you dont need time just skill

Dont they sell unlockes though?

well yea...

So i can buy the game then spend another x bucks to be competative, ermmm no thanks.

Wrong or right thats how people will think about it, how many and weather it will actually matter one damn i have no idea (neither do you).

Where do people get this idea? I believe that buying the unlocks gives you access to the skills WITHOUT needing to buy the campaign. In other words, you could buy Nightfall as a stand alone; decide that there's plenty to keep you happy in PvE from chapter 3 onward but need some skills for PvP. Then you could spend 40 dollars to unlock all core/prophecies skills, and you are set - grind out some fun skills, collect the chapters as you go. You may opt to buy the Factions game or just the unlock, but from what I've read you get the unlocks without needing the game.

So you don't pay twice for it - you pay once, just that one way you get all the skills with no content, the other way you get all the content, and access to all the skill s if you grind like mad.

After reading the entire thread. I think the complants boil down to only a few things.

1. Soon they are gonna be selling FoW armor in the store!!

Graile has already said that PVE items will NOT be available in the online store. Also heres the thing, when you make a PvP charcter you automaticly get Max armor and weapons! So theres really no point! The only thing you would be buying would be a more 'better-looking' armor. And seriously I don't think many hard-core PvPers care too much about cosmetic apperances.

FOW Armor is never NESSASARY. You can play the game just fine without it. But playing without good skills can be quite a problem.

2. I've worked hard for these skills! Now any old somebody can buy them!

Please, you haven't "worked' you've played a VIDEO GAME. Your acting like it's some sort of job to unlock skills. It's not, your supposed to be having fun.

3. This is gonna unbalance things!!!

Funny thing is, plenty of people currently have UAX, but there has never been any unbalance due to people having more skills than another. Once again just because you have the tools, it doesn't mean you can play the game right. I mean do you honestly believe that a Guild of people that have paid for all their skills are gonna jump in and take over PVP?

4. It's way too expensive!!!

A person on current US MINIMUM wage($5.15/hour) can make enough to pay for it in about 8 hours. Also for $40 you get 450 skills.

Thats about 9 cents per skill.

Also remeber people that this is not manditory, so if you don't feel like buying it. Then don't, no one is gonna force you.

Ok I'm finished Hopefully everyone considers what I've said here and rethinks this decison.

Gaile has said in a few of her posts that the chapter must be purchased. If you buy the unlocks without owning the chapter, you don't get access to them. This is my major point of contention with the system. That and they aren't going to be offering the unlocks until several months after each chapter is released. No noob is going to pick up Prophecies for a $90 price tag just to have those skills unlocked in PvP.

I might buy some pvp skills tonight.. and while i'm at it! Buy some new slots for my PvP characters!

Its a bad trend because soon enough you wont have to play the game to earn anything.

And I wish that people would get off of the Generalization Train. The same thing is done with criticisms and so called "whiners". Who the hell is "We"? Unless you were talking about hardcore PvPers.

NO

i read her posts (unless updated 15 minutes ago) and what she said was that she would check to see which it was.

until there is an official announcement that is still unknown

Some things i want to say:

1
If you dont PvP. This does not affect you. Please stop complaining.

2
You know what the collector's edition is right? You pay a little more money and you get a really cool emote.

You know the Korean Coke point items? Buy coke, collect points and redeem it for a code that gives you a customized weapon with a new skin.

What about the pet Kuunavangs? The upcoming Nightfalls Pre-release retail pack?

You notice a trend right??

For some money, you get a little cool extra, but it doesnt really make you a better player....Its just cool.

This has been part of Arenanet's business model. The store is just a continuation of it.

3
Even if you UAS via $$$, you still will be raped by much better players.

4
Final Reiteration: They said before that UAS would never return. But here it is.

It's a company changing its mind and listening to its customer base, because the customer base was right.

And you call them hypocrites?

5
It is too expensive. meh.

Nice post....that’s exactly the way I think. I actually thought of adding other points but I think you get it all covered ^^

And for the ones that still don’t get it, this is a GAME and “working hard to get stuff” DOES NOT EXIST HERE!!! Everything you do online should be fun, if its not stop playing! As for the PVP unlocks itself, it’s something that wont break the game since its 100% optional, you can still get the SAME skills by just playing the game!

The unlocks are not made for people that own both games and simply just don’t want to “grind” for skills (thought I see some benefits even for those people), they are actually done for people that don’t care about PVE, SO they wont be buying every single expansion that comes out the oven, but still they can be as competitive using ALL the skills available. OOO yes, and I am not stating that you cant be competitive only with core + factions OR core + prophecies skills, but having the ability to unlock all the variety of skills is a HUGE benefit and a WHOLE LOT of people will enjoy it, and if you don’t, as I said before, its not necessary to buy the unlocks. You can still get them without paying if you own the games, so this won’t affect you whatsoever.

Really, it’s quite hard for me to see how so much people can not like this…and btw, until now I haven’t found ONE SINGLE valid argument to disqualify the PVP unlocks, all I rear is rant after rant of people that can’t even tell clearly WHY they don’t like this update in particular.

Latter.

I think this defeats the entire object of the game.. selling skills for real money.. how long before they're selling gold in the "guild wars store".. like on ebay?

I find this incredible and I mean they must be seriously strapped for cash if they're doing this. RPG's are about building your character up yourself through the game and having some sense of achievement.. now all you have to do is pay for it.

Speaking of a gross generalization, I don't see how PvP only players paying for skill unlocks to save grind equals "soon enough you won't have to play the game to earn anything."

There's a HUGE difference between PvE and PvP in terms of goals, what constitutes "fun", and what rewards you get.

As long as Anet doesn't sell PvE gold, items, etc., I can't why anybody would have a problem. I honestly don't have a problem with people buying gold with cash, but I know many people do, so I doubt it will ever be offered.

I can see PvP ONLY item unlocks, much like skills. It just makes sense. Again, it doesn't effect PvE, and your precious status symbols, so don't worry about it.

Again, please note the difference between creating a "Role-Playing Character" and a "PvP Only" character.

Guild Wars has always appealed to two different groups of players, and really, this has no effect on the PvE side.

[QUOTE]since this is for PVP only please tell me how it has any effect on your PVE (RP) character in any way at all

or did you think your PVE (RP) character could get the skills as well?

Wow. I wasted so much time catching up and reading the posts from where I left off. It's all become a huge cycle. I was going to sum it up but it seems manaleak34 has already done that so I'm off the hook.

The only reason there is still anger and opposition popping up out of no where is because people keep coming in out of the blue without reading any of the previous posts and repeating the same bland unoriginal complaint, such as the post three above me, alongside all of the other newcomers to this thread that show up once or twice per new page.

All arguements for and against this have been presented. All I saw when reading up was a repetition of all the arguements that had already been presented before I went to bed last night.

Can we give it a rest and just close it?

Thats a great suggestion Moses, lets close this thread

um...........

This isnt for the RPG.

This is for the PvP.

I think we should remember why it is that this policy is being implemented. Gaile said in a post yesterday that this will help out players who only bought later Guild Wars Games but not the earlier ones. Imagine you are a brand new player who picks up Nightfall. You enjoy it and decide to try pvp. However, there is a problem. You don't have any of the skills from the previous two titles. Now you could probably get by with what you have and be a really good pvp player, but more skills would offer you more options. Before skill packs, what you would have to do is go buy the earlier games and then play until you unlocked the skills. With this new system you can just buy the skills.

In conclusion, if the skill unlocks work as I described them than this policy is primarily a way for new players who want to pvp to catch up and be competetive.

Edit: I would like to thank you all for making my first thread ever such a huge success

Man, Anet can let players buy anything they want for pvp-only players. Doesn't bother me a bit, and I think it's great that they have responded to the people for whom that is a big concern. Good job!

Now for the rest of us... please don't let this mean that your future expansion packs are going to be centered around pvp like Factions has been. Please don't let the fact that people can just buy game features instead of playing for them give you license to make the game less detailed, less story, have less quests, etc. (And if you can refrain from burdening small guilds and alliances with missions reqiring a large number of players and specific classes/builds, that would be nice too)

I'm glad the PvP folks are getting what they've asked for. Just don't forget the other half of the game, eh?

do they unlock the weapon upgrades/runes also? O_o


9 cents for otyugh's cry? what a rip off.

Good grief!!!

I can't believe the controversy this has kicked up. Imho, it boils down to this:-

1) Anet is not a charity, they are a business. Nowhere in the EULA does it promise they will forevermore pander to anyone's prejudices/preconceptions/unreasonable expectations of how their business model will continue.

2) They give you a choice. Unless they have developed some fancy new sort of cyber-extortion, it's entirely up to individual purchasers to make a decision as to whether or not they make use of the store options.

3) I feel that some of the posters would rather have a situation where in a year or two's time they could reminisce about "that really good GW game - played it for a few months until the servers were shut down due to lack of money"

In summary, stop whining. GW is giving you a CHOICE. Use it or don't use it - it's up to you.

Pace

No they don't unlock the weapon and rune upgrades that would be asking for way to much.

I agree with you on all points. And I also agree with the view on fow armor, because it's availbale in the game. You know where you can craft it and what you need. The materials needed are also available, from farming or buying from players or the material traders.

Rare perfect skin items are something else though, especially caster stuff. You can't go visit a crafter and say ok craft me this gold crystalline sword for 200 rubies and 200 sapphires +100k for example. The only thing you can hope for is that you accidentally find one or that one comes up on the market and that you win the auction. So I wouldn't mind a vanity online shop, why not? Why would it affect the economy so much like some say? Millions of gold is sold via ebay, you are still playing and the economy is still standing.

EDIT: Those items could even be precustomised for your character only, just like fow armor.