use your existing chars as heroes?

Ghorta

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Cobras Offer Protection

R/Mo

/not signed

the purpose of templates is so you can use your other character's skills, I see my characters enough, I don't want to see a lot of me running around anyways

besides this would just ruin the concept of AI heroes...they're there so you can control henchmen, not so you can have you running around with you....

Jongo River

Jongo River

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

/signed

Was thinking exactly the same. I don't like the heroes much. The ones I've uncovered, just don't appeal to me. I'd love to control a whole team of my "River Clan".

What's this nonsense about powerlevelling? Oh yes, because it's such a challenge to grind through the game a second/third/fouth time with a different class. What rot! Why shouldn't the second character be easier? Hell, I'd been thinking it would be great if characters could have linked progress (mission completed by one=completed by all), but I guess that would detract from those who are willing to play 12hrs a day/7 days a week/360 days a year...

actionjack

actionjack

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kali

W/E

I have mix opinion about this. It could be done, and would be nice to be done, but seem like it would require few change to many aspect of the game, which might produce uncertain results.

I understand the good of this. But there are two questions/concerns, in that does that mean your other-stand-in character will gain the XP? And what about the gold sharing? But I do agree that the 2nd or 3rd run should be easier, and with a high level pre-train character would help greatly.

But another thing to point out, is that it might create a bigger advantage between the "old" players, who already got line up of lv20 character, and the newly join players. Unless it is as suggested, only the character of that campaign can be use.

My vote would be /sign, but only with furter test and additional modifications and/or restrictions.

countesscorpula

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Gwen Is [EVIL]

N/

well, current heroes have access to all skills you've unlocked on the account, so they already have the advantage over new characters in that they get free elite skills. So Heroes are pretty nifty and helpful already.
Powerleveling shouldn't be anyone's concern, cause guildies and others are always availabel to help you with that anyways.
What would be the ultimate cool about being able to have your own characters as heroes would be that you could take family pictures. =) Have your character's posing over glint's dead body for a screen shot. How spiffy would that be?!
So, i'm all for having Char's as heroes, though I would also be happy to have their addition limited to characters who have either reached Lvl 20 or finished thier campaign.

Linksys

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Hmm I'm not sure about being able to use my other characters as Heros. But it would be cool to completely create a Hero character. Choosing the profession, name face, hair, height, and everything else. Would be cool if Nightfall later let us do that a couple times.

SpeedyKQ

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

As long as the player-hero gets no gold, no XP, and no unlocks, this is a great idea.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

/notsigned

I agree with the powerleveling issue.

You could have a low lvl character at the start of Elona, using a highly lvld and experienced hero (from your other characters) to help them.

Thats why you get heroes of the same lvl as yourself at the start.

Perhaps give access to your characters after you reach lvl20, or a certain questin the game.

But to access a tyrian character you own, you need to travel to Tyria to get them.

To access a cantha character you own, you need to go to Cantha to get them.

Elonian characters you just need to stay there, but still do a quest.

Like a quest to find them somewhere and help them in a fight and then they agree to join you in your quest.

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

The word is 'requirement'.

There could be prerequisites for 'hero characters':
- Make finishing the Nightfall campaing, be ascended or something like that a prerequisite to that character being able to be used as an Hero.
- They must be the same or lower level than the playing character.
- They won't gain exp, they just are there with they primary proffesion to help.
- They can only use their know skill and no PvE only or signets of capture, while Heroes can use ALL your unlocked skills.
- Limit the number of them you can set, with a checkbox near portraits in the character selection skill o something like that, so you can only set 3 of them as heroes and preventing all of themappearing in the list.
- PvP characters can be uses as heroes only be used as heroes by other PvP charaters, and the same for PvE...

In other words, you'll be only using your items and showing your skins and armor of yuor different characters at the same time.

Something like that

Titan Chrae

Titan Chrae

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Frozen Lake

Illustrious Chromatic Enigmas (ICE)

Mo/

I like this idea and it makes my suggestion for the ablility to "jump" into your heros even more attractive.

Here is the thread I started on that.

Enhanced Hero Control. (Ability to jump into your Heroes)

Pkest

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Hooded Reavers of Eternal Life(Ankh)

R/

/signed

As for the power lvl issue: having elites on heroes means you can pretty much power lvl now and frankly with the lvl 20 cap and Factions availablility what possible difference does a few hours to max lvl make?

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Powerlevel does not exist here.

This is not an up to lvl99 game.

You can get a lvl20 charecter in a few hours just by doing all Shin Jea quests, or a couple of days days by Istan Quests or a couple of weeks by Tyrian quests.

Level is not really important here. Skills are.

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

/signed

HOWEVER, you should only be able to unlock them after you've gotten your char to level 20. I don't see a problem with them having all the skills that your account has unlocked because they'll be acting just like heroes do.

Alaris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

R/N

Great idea, and I have an idea to deal with exploitation:

Nerf any character that is above your level to the corresponding level that you have. So you get no penalty for playing with lower level chars, and no bonus for playing with higher level chars.

As long as the only real bonus for playing your own chars is the ability to customize (and perhaps level them up too), then this is great !!!

Comments?

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

I think it would be better if the heros gained skillpoints aftre lvl 20 and you could redeem hero skillpoints instead.

KiyaKoreena

KiyaKoreena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Kirins of Holy Light

N/

/signed IF:

1) Upon finishing the game you unlock the ability to bring any of your characters from that campaign as a Hero. >>OR<< When you hit level 20 you can bring any created char on your account.
2) Only the primary character you are controlling gets drops. To stop title farming your alts you bring will not get : XP, skill points, map exploration, Sunspear/LB points, mission/bonus completion. Your alt chars will take their share of loot and throw it into the Void like Heros and Henches.

So for all intents and purposes it is just reskinning a Hero to look like someone else on your account and have that name up instead.

Neriandal Freit

Neriandal Freit

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Spiral of The Red Rose, Kryta (Columbus, IN)

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

E/

Quote:
So for all intents and purposes it is just reskinning a Hero to look like someone else on your account and have that name up instead.
Properly put for this topic.

a_ndy

a_ndy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

Eat Our [Cape]

W/Mo

/signed

I agree with KiyaKoreena,

If the major threat of having your alternate characters act as heroes is powerlevelling, then unlocking them (and not having them gain experience) once you've finished a campaign and/or have achieved level 20 seems like a pretty solid solution.

Getting all my characters together in one party would be a pretty sweet deal.

Alaris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

R/N

We don't need to be afraid of powerlevelling. This is not WoW or Diablo 2. In my mind, this game started after I reached level 20, where the Jade Sea and the Echovald forests opened up. The bulk of the fun is the end-game.

Besides, you can always role-play if you want, even if the option to powerlevel is there. Plus powerlevelling will be there only for those who have levelled their first character high enough to call it powerlevelling.

Alaris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Montreal, Quebec, Canada

R/N

/signed

It's a generally good idea, and if people are afraid of powerlevelling etc, then I'm also good for these chars to work like henchies / heroes (i.e. no drops etc).

I'd also be happy if they did get quest rewards and access to new areas, and experience. No drops & gold though.

I think the requirement of finishing the game is too rough. Instead, I'd go for the much more relaxed requirement that the character is at the same level as you are or lower.

yayrichie

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

/notsigned
Even with the restriction of having to beat a campaign as a requirement for using a character as a hero and for a character to be used as a hero, I still think this feature would cause several imbalances. One of Nightfall's main attractions is being able to use heroes; making all of your other characters available for use in your party after they beat a campaign would make buying Nightfall less appealing, especially to older players who have beaten Prophecies and Factions with several characters. Additionally, adding the alternate-character-as-hero feature would give an advantage to already seasoned characters who have an army of PvE characters available to them, as actionjack said above.

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by yayrichie
/notsigned
Even with the restriction of having to beat a campaign as a requirement for using a character as a hero and for a character to be used as a hero, I still think this feature would cause several imbalances. One of Nightfall's main attractions is being able to use heroes; making all of your other characters available for use in your party after they beat a campaign would make buying Nightfall less appealing, especially to older players who have beaten Prophecies and Factions with several characters. Additionally, adding the alternate-character-as-hero feature would give an advantage to already seasoned characters who have an army of PvE characters available to them, as actionjack said above.
I think the restriction was that you have to finish Nightfall on that character (the one you want to use them with) before you unlock them. Obviously you can only get heroes if you have Nightfall. If I wanted to use my monk as a hero on my necro, my necro would have to finish NF. See?

Your other point is not making much sense to me. Older players do have benefits in relation to new ones. They will always have more benefits - more gold, more characters, more versatility, more experience, more fame, better/rare weapons etc etc. How does that make having more people somehow unfair? If the new people put in the same amount of time to create those characters they'll have their own army. Since you will have to beat the NF campaign just to get them, there'd be no problems with low-level chars getting them, and since it's endgame you'll already have all the other normal heroes at that time anyway. I can see how using PC-heroes would cause problems in PvP, but if so just make them unusable there (normal ones can stay). In the HvH arena it wouldn't matter.

TehGhost

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

Sorry. This is rather irrelevant, but I found no other place to post it. I thought I’d just take a quick moment to express my dislike in the matter of the Hero’s. Normally a game such as this is meant to meet other people and work with them. I absolutely despise the idea that humans are being replaced by APC’s (Hero’s) on some quests it is mandatory you take one with you. This is ridiculous. Recently I was playing with a group of people, and took forever to find these people may I add. We then decide to stick together. However we are then forced to kick one player to make room for an AI. I think this is a horrid idea, and don’t know what they were thinking.

Threepwood

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Belgium

Brave and Honorable [BaH]

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehGhost
Sorry. This is rather irrelevant, but I found no other place to post it. I thought I’d just take a quick moment to express my dislike in the matter of the Hero’s. Normally a game such as this is meant to meet other people and work with them. I absolutely despise the idea that humans are being replaced by APC’s (Hero’s) on some quests it is mandatory you take one with you. This is ridiculous. Recently I was playing with a group of people, and took forever to find these people may I add. We then decide to stick together. However we are then forced to kick one player to make room for an AI. I think this is a horrid idea, and don’t know what they were thinking.
Agreed. But this knife twists on both sides:
On the one side you have people that want to adventure with other people, but can't find anyone because they're with heroes. On the other side you have the people that depend on 'controllable' AI rather than risking people leaving the party during a mission.
And for some missions, a hero is REQUIRED. They could change this so that at least one person in the team has that same profession as the required hero.

In each party there usually is one player with an attitude problem, thinking he's way better than the rest (not to mention the irritating noob-calling if one dares to disagree with this 'fact'). This player a) tends to screw the mission up by not following party policy or b) will leave mid-mission, which is not fun for the other players. This is one of the main reasons why people opt for heroes instead of other people: they're reliable and in some cases much better than humans (e.g. ranger/mesmer interrupters)

However, the game could increase the working together part, like in the Elonian Domains: more human players in your team makes even the masters quest as easy as monkey pie. Those things should be stimulated more, so that heroes are only chosen if one can't find a team.

My three eurocents

TehGhost

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

Your points are well taken and very true. I agree with you. That or I think that where the AI’s are mandatory, they should simply not take up an extra space in your party. Of course, by doing this there is an extra member in your party, which makes things unbalanced, creating another problem. I suppose it’s a touchy situation.

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

I agree. I absolutely despise the required heroes for missions. It made me have to kick someone for no reason (an all-human group). I hate that.

GedLongbow

GedLongbow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

A pinapple under the Jade Sea

R/Mo

So your saying that you would take a level one character from Pre-Searing and take him to Torment and Power Level him so that he's a lvl 20 pwning device in Pre....no, I don't think this would work. This is the exact OPPOSITE of what Heroes were meant for. To SUBSTITUTE players, not BE them.

That's what your doing, right?

roalgumo7

roalgumo7

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

Tijuana, B.C., Mexico.

W/

It could be ok, but scince, like Knightsaber sith said, this would just be easy power lvling, maybe have them be able to act as heroes just if they are lvl 20

But nah.

Beqxter

Beqxter

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Berkeley, CA

My major attraction to this idea is more along the lines of storyline progression than leveling or anything like that. If implemented correctly, I don't really see how this needs to be any different in terms of gameplay from the current setup, but it would allow me to take four characters through the game simultaneously instead of over and over (and over) again in order to get them to such-and-such zone so they can cap, or to get skillpoints, etc. As the chapters keep coming and my stable of characters keeps growing, it's quickly growing unworkable and exceedingly tedious to bring them all through.

With the following limitations, would it be workable?

* You cannot take another character as a hero until you reach the entry point for foreign characters in a chapter (ie Consulate Docks in Nightfall) - to prevent powerleveling.

* Gold and drop distribution works the same as with heroes and hench - ie, you don't get it if they're along. However, just like heroes get XP from quest rewards and missions, your other characters would as well.

I mean, with those in place, isn't it essentially just a matter of skins in terms of gameplay? And I would only have to do a chapter a couple of times, instead of, oh, TEN.

falling demon

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

dunno

Dawn's Omen {Leader}

W/Mo

ooh can i have 4 warriors all with the same armour/weps, then i can make them all whammos and create myself a whammo party with me and my identical 3 heroes

KiyoshiKyokai

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

Red Versus Blue

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beqxter
My major attraction to this idea is more along the lines of storyline progression than leveling or anything like that. If implemented correctly, I don't really see how this needs to be any different in terms of gameplay from the current setup, but it would allow me to take four characters through the game simultaneously instead of over and over (and over) again in order to get them to such-and-such zone so they can cap, or to get skillpoints, etc. As the chapters keep coming and my stable of characters keeps growing, it's quickly growing unworkable and exceedingly tedious to bring them all through.

With the following limitations, would it be workable?

* You cannot take another character as a hero until you reach the entry point for foreign characters in a chapter (ie Consulate Docks in Nightfall) - to prevent powerleveling.

* Gold and drop distribution works the same as with heroes and hench - ie, you don't get it if they're along. However, just like heroes get XP from quest rewards and missions, your other characters would as well.

I mean, with those in place, isn't it essentially just a matter of skins in terms of gameplay? And I would only have to do a chapter a couple of times, instead of, oh, TEN.
I would agree with beqxter. If you put real restrictions (like getting to the travel cities, though I would say ascention/wuh no seh/sunspear general rather than just reaching cities)., on this, it works pretty well. In addition, those of you griping about powerlevelling characters: if it takes you more than 10-15 hours to get any character to level 20 (especially with the advent of Cantha O_O), you're just not doing something right. The only problem I could see of this is if new players could abuse it to get overpowered at the start of the game, and since they wouldn't have any other level 20 characters on their accounts yet, that's plainly impossible.

But really, once you've been to a place with one character, beaten a mission once, etc. There's not much allure in doing it again and again. I wish protector and explorer titles were account-wide, rather than forcing me to redo everything over and over just to get a certain skill cap or hunt for a certain item. But that's another rant...

Quote:
Originally Posted by falling demon
ooh can i have 4 warriors all with the same armour/weps, then i can make them all whammos and create myself a whammo party with me and my identical 3 heroes
You're already 75% there with you, Koss, and Goren. What's one more really holding you back?

I'm 100% signed. I'd rather have my cool-looking characters that I've been with for 20 levels following me around than some "heroes" that I don't really like/care about.

odly

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

N/

I would set the following limitation : You can add your own characters as heroes only if they are 'protector' of the campaign where you are travelling. It would give an incentive for getting those titles.

/signed.

I like the idea.
After all if you have finished the game you are proclaimed heroes as well, so why not ?

I'd like it if I could do skill capping for multiple characters at once this way. Abuse or not I'd liek it.

V??na R??nd??ttir

V??na R??nd??ttir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

Hong Kong

Astral Travellers[OBE]

R/

I have more than one account and more than one computer so I can already run myself places and even synch dance on my own! But being able to get extra drops with only one account using multiple characters doesn't feel right.
If this idea meant only that I could replace the appearance and name of a hero of a certain profession with a character I'd made of the same profession then I think that would be fun though. My own characters are more appealing to me than the heroes. But when used as heroes I think my characters should behave exactly as heroes would, i.e. no extra drops for them, no extra storage, no use of mini pets, just to keep the balance of the game right and leave the advantage to those with multiple accounts and computers : )

Hamanaqua

Hamanaqua

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

East Coast U.S.

E/Mo

I saw this thread and had to comment because I've thought of it myself. As for the powerleveling; you'll notice that if you bring your Tyrian chars into Nightfall, their base level is adjust accordingly to the level of the character using them. So basically all that would have to happen is a little calculating on the part of the game's mechanicas to adjsust the attrabute points of existing char heroes to coincide with the character you are running.

I think a lot of this would depend on how much character data is saved on the GW servers vs. how much is saved on user PCs. Also, do you just get player-char heroes or do you have to earn them or do a quest to get them?

Another problem with the idea is it nerfs the whole community aspect of GW which I'm sure NCSoft is unwilling to do.

scott_wollman

scott_wollman

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

Death Serpents of Hell [DSoH]

R/Mo

I have to say, I LOVE the idea of using your current characters as heroes. I, personally have learned a LOT about how my heroes use thier skills and have come up with some amazing hero builds (eg. olias uses death nova a LOT). Being able to use a character you have already bought 15k armor for would be sweet. They would FAR out do current heroes. I would like to see the hero system incorporate something like this for characters who have reached L20 or have some monetary restriction like a trader. Keep in mind heroes can ALREADY run you places. Koss and goren for example, each using "charge" to move you faster to the next zone.

The big thing I would like to see is system where all heroes an a single account are SHARED. Meaning a heroes level, all armor and weapons assigned to one hero are assigned to ALL heroes of the same name on your account. I have 8 charcters currently and having to buy weapons for each one's 15 diffrent heroes is expensive. and each new expansion will have more classes right? having to level up THOSE new heroes in the current environment with each of my new characters as well as the old ones will causes a LOT of time-mangament problems. eventually, I would not be able to play thru all the campaings as each character. If Arenanet wishes to implement theses changes they could un-equip all the heroes and give players the runes, insignias, weapons ect in an 'unlcaimed items' window. A message informing the player that the heroes have been merged and the highest level of each individual hero of the same name has been assigned to the new shared hero would be helpful. For example, I have 8 characters and one has a level 20 goren. The rest of my characters have him at his default level. Now that he is shared, only the strongest of them all would remain (L20).

I believe a hero control flag for your pet would be nice too, eg. if charm animal is equipped, a control for attack or do not attack (like the heroes) would help for pulling. Or maybe a hero flag for your pet? I have other pet ideas but as they do not concern the hero system I'll post them elswhere.

Thanks for reading this!

Cherrie

Cherrie

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Echowald

Marked by [Fury]

Me/

I don't see a problem with powerleveling:
-annother 'you' added to party would have to be level 20; quest that would make it possible to add your other chars to party would be obtainable only after beating a game somewhere (Tyria, Cantha, Elona, whatever - preferably not Tyria, it's possible to beat it with low lvl). There are many other things to make it work ^^

-farming: no problem either; your chars would act just like other heroes and you wouldnt get drops for them.

It's an interesting idea, but would have to be implemented with care. But I like it!

/signed

@odly: I think protector would be too high requirement, would leave too many people/chars out.

daraaksii

daraaksii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

/signed if you can pick only lvl20s.

Just_ A_Nightmare

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

D/

not signed if there were tons of me
a it would be creepy
b theyd take all the bagels

Silas Verdeii

Silas Verdeii

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Vancouver, Canada

Warrior Druids of Silvari

since all the skills on your characters are available to heroes and your weapons are transferable those two issues wouldn't be changed by this. that being said, the concern over powerleveling is alot more genuine. therefore i would propose this alternative:
when you start a new character and get past the first tutorial(to the point where henchmen/pugs etc are available to you) you can unlock(either free or for gold...whatever) a lvl 5 version of your other characters. the skins would be the same as the character that it's representing however everything else would be at newbie level(attribute points, runes, lvl, etc) then it couldn't be used as powerleveling but once you get them up to lvl 20 you have another group of heros(who fit into the storyline as well as you do) to play around with in missions etc and it'll make it easier to personalize your heroes skin wise(which is always fun imo) and vary the combinations of your 3 hero team(though i think it would be awesome if they could be henchmen too but i know that would be alot harder and therefore less likely to happen)

The Silver Star

The Silver Star

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

UK, Scotland

Il Guild Name Il

W/

/unsigned

Stop making this game a 100% RPG, it was supposed to be a MMORPG....

If you want an RPG go buy one dont try and change a game into something its not.

Thanks.

Samuel Dravis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Silver Star
/unsigned

Stop making this game a 100% RPG, it was supposed to be a MMORPG....
Eh, it wasn't and isn't a MMORPG.

Quote:
If you want an RPG go buy one dont try and change a game into something its not.
It's already an RPG. There's such a thing as PvE and storyline, remember? Why would they bother with that if you're character is not supposed to be roleplayed? If you've got a good reason why this shouldn't be allowed, then let's hear it. Until then, you're just coming across as some sort of reactionary.