Petition to kick NPC out of HA - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

30 Oct 2006 at 18:48 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

And Llint, get lost, how about keeping HA fun? How about rewarding originality? How about losing because other players have skills, or winning because you have skills, instead of the AI, wasn't that the whole purpose of this game? Skill wins?

Just FYI, HA never really rewarded originality. HA rewarded a carefully-metagamed build ran by competent players. If anything, current hero-filled HA rewards originality more than ever. The metagame wasn't simply ruined - it was nuked, obliterated and then the rubble was crushed into dust, first with 6v6 and now with heroes. So, now you have your original build that tries to maximize AI's strengths and suppliment their weaknesses with your own character, in other words, individual skill plus originality.

Quote:

Most players have played guild wars at least 500+ hours, and are still not great at PvE, so why should you be great at PvP in under 20 hours or so?

Rank 3 doesn't mean "great at PvP". In some cases, even rank 9 doesn't mean "great at PvP". All my rank 9 means is that I can make a shiny tiger that looks cool and that pugs (if they still exist) would take me because there's a higher probability I know what I'm doing. You can be a good player unranked and you can be terrible at everything because you IWAYed your tiger.

Julen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

II Guild Name II [Tag]

Mo/

30 Oct 2006 at 18:59 - 42

I'm really getting tired of all the people complaining that they cant get in a group due to being unranked. You should play more and complain less!

Back on topic

Heroes in HA are a joke, played a match today and had my Reversal of Fortune interrupted 3 times within a minute by heroes, just rediculous imo.

So i guess i'm in favour of removing them from pvp, they have their own arena, keep em there.

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

30 Oct 2006 at 19:06 - 43

Change that

a) shakes up the static builds
b) allows new players to jump in and try new things without elitism
c) allows experienced players new challenges
d) Heros follow the same rules skills/engery/health/armor as normal characters

/not signed to removing them.

ibex333

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Brooklyn, NY

[EYE]

Rt/A

30 Oct 2006 at 19:08 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by looloo

Hi guys, don't you guys think that HA is getting gayer? OMG...i experienced so many teams with heroes and henchy just team gank on player-team and take advantage of it, especially in scarred earth. This is just ridiculous, how can a serious pvp place like HA allow so many heroes and henchy in battle? You wanna see that in GvG? bet no...Please take consideration into this issue, as HA is just a chaos now!!!!!

/signed

Please, dont be talking about how HA is too serious for heroes when you yourself seem to be having trouble against hero teams.
Besides, who proclaimed HA as a "SERIOUS PVP" place? Was it you? Mabe someone else? It seems, someone here is forgetting that ultimately this is a game made for the player's enjoyment! Anet is trying to make HA more accessable to players who lack the "leetness" of todays prominent Guilds/Teams? - more props to them! Way to go Anet! Mabe now noobs will get a chance at glory, and wont feel so alienated anymore.

You are being selfish, and you do not wish to consider the fact that some people cant get into a team due to lack of rank3, and other causes which I'm sure you know of. If you have no trouble getting into a HA team, that doesnt mean it's the same for everyone else.
Heroes will only make HA and GvG more interesting in the long run. In any case, teams consiting of experienced people will always beat heroes/henchies.

Oh, and here's another thought.... PvE players got hit in the latest patch by getting their farming nerfed. Why shouldnt you get your HA leetness nerfed? :P

/NOT SIGNED

Anet, please dont listen to this man

PS: And yes, I'd like to see heroes in GvG, HA, and everywhere else they can possibly be! This is what I paid my $50 for, and I want to enjoy it.

Dark Angle

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2005

30 Oct 2006 at 19:12 - 45

/signed

Daniel__

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Oct 2006 at 19:15 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyro yamaguchi

/signed

And Llint, get lost, how about keeping HA fun? How about rewarding originality? How about losing because other players have skills, or winning because you have skills, instead of the AI, wasn't that the whole purpose of this game? Skill wins?

Oh and no this is not coming from a r12, top 50 guild player, but from a r1 player, with only a modest, inactive guild.

Yes there is rank elitism. So what? Be patient for a nice cookie cutter PUG, play long enough, become good, and eventually you will hit r3, after which things will speed up.

r3=180 fame, so that's a maximum of 180 wins. Even if you win once every half an hour, it takes you 90 hours to become rank 3.

Most players have played guild wars at least 500+ hours, and are still not great at PvE, so why should you be great at PvP in under 20 hours or so?

Fame is farmed, not skill.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

30 Oct 2006 at 19:26 - 47

How about a compromise???

Limit the # of NPCs on a team to 3

That means 3 humans and 3 heros/hench?

sdrawkcab11

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

W/

30 Oct 2006 at 20:02 - 48

Just disable the use of heros in HA, i can live with 3 hench at max but still this is supposed to be pvp, bots ruin everything and they seem overpowerd.
/signed

the_ashii

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

30 Oct 2006 at 20:02 - 49

/signed

Tombs/HA - was an altenrative way for competative pvp then gvg, I myself spent most of my time playing it.

And yes it is frustration to get into groups sometimes, but I think this is the wrong way to deal with the situation. A workaround i've would have suggest is get some friends, play with them and form HA groups with them or create your own.

On most maps theres a hench/hero team, its annoying and has removed alot of the competative play.

.. Reguarding the recent changes:

The map changes was good.

The 6v6 thing was bad.

The hero/hench teams was even worse...

i was never here for the event weekend, i thought it would be a good change but it wasn't. It removed alot of flavor & flexibility in builds. I hope this change isn't _PERMANENT_!..

My personal preference of was a 10min hoh game 5 teams fighting..

I dont know how they got through with the idea to change hoh, so drastricly, but i dont like it and wish all players could vote on it, and we see.

enough of my rant, i'm onto next thread to read : p

Have Faith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

R/Me

30 Oct 2006 at 20:13 - 50

/signed

Keep the 6v6 lose the heros (its becoming a joke).

bigroach

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2005

R/Rt

30 Oct 2006 at 20:25 - 51

so you want to interact with other people..

you have the people on your own team to talk to.

and there has to be at least one real person on the other team.

Vermilion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

NY

30 Oct 2006 at 20:36 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigroach

so you want to interact with other people..

you have the people on your own team to talk to.

and there has to be at least one real person on the other team.

Heroway teams don't provide the same amount of challenge as human teams..Not everyone is there JUST for fame.have you played any FPS against bots? Yeah, its not the same as playing vs. Humans..not at all.

I suppose if HA was 8v8 again and they removed henchies, that would be a start. Imo just instituting fame loss for losses would make everything a lot better..although if you don't have any you won't lose any..so maybe not.

Dougal Kronik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ontario, Canada

Glengarry Fencibles

R/

30 Oct 2006 at 20:36 - 53

/not signed

Maybe now I may try and go into HA. Could never get into a group before (no rank).

viskey

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

england !!!!!!!!!

Run For It [RUN]

Mo/W

30 Oct 2006 at 20:37 - 54

/signed

pfft if they wanna do HA they should be good enough to do it without NPC's

Azadaleou

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

Ohio

A/W

30 Oct 2006 at 21:00 - 55

/signed

Anet should be ashamed for implementing trash like this. Anyone notice the contradicting descriptions of Guild Wars Prophecies and Guild Wars Nightfall in the online store?

Guild Wars Prophecies says:

Craft your hero

Build a personalized character to transverse an epic storyline in a vibrant fantasy setting, compete in head-to-head battles with players from all around the world. And find adventure in missions and quests.

Free online play!

Join the more than a million players worldwide who have become enraptured by the Guild War universe!

Guild Wars Nightfall says:

Heroes at your command

Customizable NPCS that level up with you, take orders in combat, and use skills and equipment at your discretion.

Find power in small numbers

Heroes allow you and/or one or more friends to control a party of champions as you battle across exotic land of mystery and danger.

Choices shape your adventure

The decisions you make along the way determine the path your journey takes. the missions you play. and the heroes you meet.

I don't know about you guys, but they seem like totally different games. The first two Guild Wars do seem like they are meant to be played online with friends. Nightfall however, seems like its a single player game. There is not even a hint of playing with lots of people online in Nightfall, rather they urge you to play with Heroes. Good job ANet, you have successfully turned the game into the total opposite of what it originally was.

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

30 Oct 2006 at 21:01 - 56

/notsigned

Personally I think HA is just a joke period. Nobody runs anything interesting. You go to halls and you find a)blood spike b)r-spike c)duals mite etc etc

So what? Heroes making this any worse? not really. All they do is take the place of random noob playing some build someone else made 5 months ago.

looloo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 02:20 - 57

For those who complained can't find group due to low rank, you could still find group with those of same status, but definitely not with some stupid NPC which are overpowered and mindless.

REMEMBER THIS, all veteran in HA went through stage with rank 0 to 2 where it's just hell to get a place in team, but you could always use friend's help and start team. H

HEROES AND NPC IS JUST NOT AN EXCUSE FOR CAN'T GET INTO TEAM!!

Coocks

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Bucharest, Romania

none

Mo/

31 Oct 2006 at 02:34 - 58

I just cant understand how come this thread only came out after NF was released and the NPC's AI was improved. What's going on ? Is the NPC's AI getting better then those iwayed tigers ? Oh noes

If a team has 5 NPC's and a human, that means that human has to control those 5 NPC's in order to make his team win, which isn't that easy. I haven't played HA since the NF release since im more a GvG man, but i still remember those nights when i asked a guildie to leave after zaishen's are dead so i can enter tombs with 5 henches, god those were fun runs, beating up vimway and winning scarred vs starburst teams

Brother Redmund

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Australia

guildless

31 Oct 2006 at 02:35 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y O U Lo Se

/signed

It's called Player vs Player, if you want to play with Heroes go to the Hero Arena.

/signed

The above quote is the fundamental reason why I support this petition. There are for and againsts for both sides, but it effectively boils down to one MAJOR point ^^

looloo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 03:02 - 60

/signed with limit number of heroes and henchies in team

Eilsys

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

United States

Biscuit Of Dewm [MEEP]

Mo/Me

31 Oct 2006 at 03:18 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

How about a compromise???

Limit the # of NPCs on a team to 3

That means 3 humans and 3 heros/hench?

I like that.

I would imagine the reason there were only four henchmen in HA is because Anet wanted groups to be able to fill slots with 'em, but not build teams of henchies.

Henchies had six skills, and no runes and such because they weren't intended to be amazing players, just adequate substitutes. And now with heroes, you don't need real people, which is kind of sad.

An easy solution would be to prevent heroes from leaving Elona or something.

llsektorll

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Canada

R/

31 Oct 2006 at 03:23 - 62

/SIGNED....

stupid heros are ruining PvP.... its not PvP without the "Player"... since HA has been shortened to 6 players it shoudn't be hard to form groups!

DeathandtheHealing

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

In a PVE GUILD YAY! :P

Me/Mo

31 Oct 2006 at 03:23 - 63

Dont be mad cause u suck and get your ass kicked by npcs

watrah

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Dynasty Warrior

N/Me

31 Oct 2006 at 03:41 - 64

dont take it the wrong way but alot of good ppl dont want to join new guilds and if they do they stay only for an hour or two and they leave without saying goodbye even after u ask them for help ether u pay or they with go gay and if u try to ask them why do u leave thet say ur guild is full of noobs dak I know that that why I ask u to help and what ppl say dont use hero yah that a good one

bart

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 04:20 - 65

/notsigned

I'm a PVE player and before Nightfall came out I suddenly had the urge to try PVP. Well lets just say nobody wanted me and i decided to get a droks run for my lvl 5 monk and went to Ascalon Arena to learn and own. That was plenty of fun.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 04:25 - 66

what's the difference between heroes and people who use a skill after 3-2-1 count and c+space?

Elena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Belgium

31 Oct 2006 at 04:33 - 67

how bout this LET ME SHOW MY FRIGGIN RANK 1 TITLE ALREADY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

then i will be happy and wont feel forced to take heroe's + hench into youre sanctuary of only real people called ha

btw

ghostly heroe is ai aswell! omg get him out of ha i want real people lawls!

Kalki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Summoners of Forgotten Gods

W/Mo

31 Oct 2006 at 04:42 - 68

/SIGNED

Anet PLEASE fix this soon before PvPers leave the game. Hero's Ascent, TEAM Arenas, Alliance Battles should be PvP (Player vs. Player!) NOT PvPvH or PvH. At the very least limit it to 1 or 2 Heroes per team in those arenas. If I want to fight with Heroes I'll fight in Hero Battles, but to let Heroes fight elsewhere just waters down and ruins those arenas. It might be a good idea to let Heroes in GvG because I think you need at least half your team as guildmates to start a match.

All I have to say to the PvPers that are outraged by Heroes ruining the games is just wait and give it time. When something is so blatantly broken Anet is usually working on a fix for it. I just hope they fix it soon before people who prefer PvP quit.

Edit: I just wanted to add, that teams full with players and no Heroes should always be the best by design of the game. If teams with Heroes have an advantage over player teams, then there is really need for a change.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

31 Oct 2006 at 04:53 - 69

/NOT signed

It at least makes more variety in the builds instead of the same old ranger/blood spike over and over.

There is a new metagame, adjust.

Spader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

W/Mo

31 Oct 2006 at 05:55 - 70

/not signed

They made it past the ghostes either kill the henchway or get out.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

31 Oct 2006 at 06:13 - 71

Dude, Henchmen have always been allowed in GvG and in HA... its just not many took em cause they sucked. Now that they are quality Player controlled characters, They are actually WORTH taking. and now you PvP people can't handle that some players can effectivily play a 4 character configuration and YOU can't!!! Deal with it, and get Nightfall. Or don't and leave, see if I give a flying fig either way... Adapt or Die.

Its called Hall of Heroes. What better place for heroes is there?

gamecube187

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2006

31 Oct 2006 at 07:38 - 72

/notsigned

It's about time Arena Net did something like this. Now the newer players like me who are in Guilds that don't pvp much can finally do HA. No one wants me to be in their group because I don't have any rank? Well at least now I can finally get in with heros.

Arena Net, please don't remove heros for HA! Newer players deserve a change to get rank too!

looloo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 07:40 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Dude, Henchmen have always been allowed in GvG and in HA... its just not many took em cause they sucked. Now that they are quality Player controlled characters, They are actually WORTH taking. and now you PvP people can't handle that some players can effectivily play a 4 character configuration and YOU can't!!! Deal with it, and get Nightfall. Or don't and leave, see if I give a flying fig either way... Adapt or Die.

Its called Hall of Heroes. What better place for heroes is there?

LOL...as if u control the heroes....that they do is just stick to what u attack, and you just got lucky the AI follow everything you attack while u have no idea whats a real player organised spike is....what a way to cheat out of you so called "control" ability

looloo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 07:43 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamecube187

/notsigned

It's about time Arena Net did something like this. Now the newer players like me who are in Guilds that don't pvp much can finally do HA. No one wants me to be in their group because I don't have any rank? Well at least now I can finally get in with heros.

Arena Net, please don't remove heros for HA! Newer players deserve a change to get rank too!

LOL this is what lazy fellas will say

Before the release of nightfall, do you think high rank players earn rank by doing heroway or henchyway? Do you think everyone start with good rank? The answer is NO!! in fact we work hard to get our rank by forming real team and play patiently, not through some helps from improved AI overpowered heroes....=.=

STop blaming others don't let u in coz u got no rank, instead put in effort at least start forming team with unranked team and start gaining fame slowly. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD!!
If it was you, would you let some PUGs who has no idea whats HA play is into ur team...i doubt it

ValidusMonachus

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

Birmingham, England

Build Wars [gg]

Me/

31 Oct 2006 at 07:49 - 75

/signed.

Vel Satis

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

No guild as yet

31 Oct 2006 at 07:59 - 76

I don't get the rank elitism argument. I've never had a real problem getting into unranked groups. Sometimes i'd be standing around for maybe half an hour lfg but very rarely longer than that and most of the time it only took maybe 5-10 minutes to find a group (less if I bothered to go through my friends list

).

As looloo said, if you don't want to take the time getting into a group, form one yourself. You can get r3 in no time at all anyway.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

31 Oct 2006 at 08:44 - 77

"If u dun changz0r it back me = quit! lol!"
Can't help but laugh at those comments.

It's the same reason why people whined about ViM, Iway, Spirit Spam, Dual Smite, AOE Smite, Healing Ball etc etc. They were beaten by it and as we all know, PVPers are superior human beings which just can't be beaten. Now just imagine the uproar in the minds of our wanna be gods and the few goddesses if something beat them.
Yep, the very reason for these whinethreads. Of course they'd never admit defeat against one of the above.

Well, as you just love to constantly fire at the PVE Crowd with sentences like "Adapt you f**king noob, lol!", here is something for you "Adapt to the change". It'll stay a while, simply because there are currently more than enough more important bugs in the game than the ranting and whining of some disgruntled, self proclaimed PVP Gods.
Maybe in a month or two the heroes will leave HA again. But by then they will have left on their own. They're a hype and every hype fades away sooner or later. In a month from now you'll hardly see hero teams anymore in HA. Unless of course you allowed them to win because you're not good enough to beat them, which encourages them to keep on going.

You want to solve the problem? Beat them.
Show them that Heroes are not good enough for PVP and those "blasted noobs" are out in a matter of days. You can also take the alternative route and whine rivers about it just like this thread here.

It's called patience for a reason. Either they will turn into a major annoyance and will sooner or later be removed from HA or they will fade away. But A-Net never removed something without properly examining it. And that will take some time.

And last but not least:
Adapt.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

31 Oct 2006 at 09:06 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by looloo

Hi guys, don't you guys think that HA is getting gayer? OMG...i experienced so many teams with heroes and henchy just team gank on player-team and take advantage of it, especially in scarred earth. This is just ridiculous, how can a serious pvp place like HA allow so many heroes and henchy in battle? You wanna see that in GvG? bet no...Please take consideration into this issue, as HA is just a chaos now!!!!!

/signed

Since this is a pvp thing I have no idea about it. But for the sheer fact you said "HA is getting gayer?", im going with...

/notsigned!

I may be straight, but that kind of thing annoys me. Watch what language you use.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

31 Oct 2006 at 09:12 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

"If u dun changz0r it back me = quit! lol!"
Can't help but laugh at those comments.

It's the same reason why people whined about ViM, Iway, Spirit Spam, Dual Smite, AOE Smite, Healing Ball etc etc. They were beaten by it and as we all know, PVPers are superior human beings which just can't be beaten. Now just imagine the uproar in the minds of our wanna be gods and the few goddesses if something beat them.
Yep, the very reason for these whinethreads. Of course they'd never admit defeat against one of the above.

Well, as you just love to constantly fire at the PVE Crowd with sentences like "Adapt you f**king noob, lol!", here is something for you "Adapt to the change". It'll stay a while, simply because there are currently more than enough more important bugs in the game than the ranting and whining of some disgruntled, self proclaimed PVP Gods.
Maybe in a month or two the heroes will leave HA again. But by then they will have left on their own. They're a hype and every hype fades away sooner or later. In a month from now you'll hardly see hero teams anymore in HA. Unless of course you allowed them to win because you're not good enough to beat them, which encourages them to keep on going.

You want to solve the problem? Beat them.
Show them that Heroes are not good enough for PVP and those "blasted noobs" are out in a matter of days. You can also take the alternative route and whine rivers about it just like this thread here.

It's called patience for a reason. Either they will turn into a major annoyance and will sooner or later be removed from HA or they will fade away. But A-Net never removed something without properly examining it. And that will take some time.

And last but not least:
Adapt.

we did.

when iway was out we take our losses , adapt and then almost won against them

same of vimway , healingball etc etc.

did those people stopped to play vimway?

no they keep playing that even if its a sucky build.

people wont stop playing heroway just becouse its weak.

The Pointless

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Stuck in the UK

Rage International [RAGE]

W/Me

31 Oct 2006 at 10:56 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by looloo

LOL this is what lazy fellas will say

Before the release of nightfall, do you think high rank players earn rank by doing heroway or henchyway? Do you think everyone start with good rank? The answer is NO!! in fact we work hard to get our rank by forming real team and play patiently, not through some helps from improved AI overpowered heroes....=.=

STop blaming others don't let u in coz u got no rank, instead put in effort at least start forming team with unranked team and start gaining fame slowly. NOTHING IS FREE IN THIS WORLD!!
If it was you, would you let some PUGs who has no idea whats HA play is into ur team...i doubt it

Why the hell should a number determine your skill? The selling point of GW is that Victory is determined by SKILL, not hours played, and if you ask me, that's all Rank is at the moment: HOURS PLAYED.