Petition to kick NPC out of HA

so you'd rather they get beaten utter crap out of by the top guilds' normal teams? Its like either The Hulk vs bambi? or Godzilla vs bambi?

Yes. Yes I would. I play PvP for the 'vP' portion.

I'd rather not see it replaced with 'vE/P'.

*shrug* Well I personally like it, because then I could test builds from guildwiki and if it works, give it a positive rating. I think a lot of people use it just for testing their build out honestly. If you try and suggest a flavor (new build) in HoH most of the time you cant find anyone to join cause they're all running builds everyone else has run.

I love how the "PvP is PvP because I'm fighting players, not AI" argument fails to mention:

-Ghostly Heroes
-The countless NPCs in Guild Battles
-Those guys who guard the bases in AB
-Pets
-Minions
-Henchmen

You've been fighting AI since square one.

you forgot people with the IQ of a henchie

Yeah, but in the case of HA 6 Players + 1 Ghost is still 6/7 players.

1 Player + 3 Heros + 2 Henches + 1 Ghost is 1/7 Players.

As someone else put it, "Players directed PvP", rather than NPC assisted PvP...

OMG.....now HA is a dead place....hardly ppl shout to recruit...guess u know why ...........Anet please dont ruin the multiplayer environment in HA..it's really sad to see this

tbh with ya...henchy and heroes AI's spike actually works better than players' in most cases...but that's not your team work ..it's all about NPC- assisted killling....which is not fair when some player which have no apparent pvp skills just get free kill. grrr....

/burnpetition

More people wanting to limit gameplay.

If NOTHING else give this time. People are trying out this new feature. Let Nightfall have some time to cool down its still warm from the oven.

I say 2 weeks before a decision should be made on this.

While there are some players who are complaining because they are losing to heroway, I think the vast majority of us dislike Heroes in HA not because we lose to it, because the fun factor is gone. Rolling through NPC teams is no where near as fun as fighting real players.

And honestly you make it seem like if you didn't start HAing at the begining of GW, then you have no chance. Sure, it was easier back then but there are many, many people who started late and still got high rank. And yes, many of them without using fame farming builds either. Everyone had to start somewhere...

Anyways, lets say you farm your way to r3 or higher with heroway? Then what are you going to do? Go back and play with the same people that you are complaining about?

As stale as some of those builds can be, I can tell you I'd rather fight them than NPC bots... (except a running b-spike like O Azn O's that play running game for 20+ mins but thats a whole other story...) and I'm sure most HAers agree with me here.

Reading through the posts might help. Majority of us are complaining not because we lost to Heroway, but because owning NPCs is no where near as fun as fighting real players... The reason this complaint came with NF release is because NF allows you to solo HA. 8v8 HA = need 3 other players to henchway. 6v6 HA = need 1 other player to henchway, henchway started become a bit of a problem here but still not that bad. Release of NF = Anyone can grab 3 heroes and 2 henchies and go, and thats about 75%+ of the teams you fight in HA atm.

You're missing the point. Ghostly hero is only 1 unit in the battle. Heck, if it was like 3 heroes or henchies max on a team, I am sure most of us would be happy. But right now its 1 player and 5 NPCS (+ghostly so 6 NPCs). Its not fun owning AI. What my guildie said sums it up:
Me: I'm gonna go PvE now...
Guildie: Gonna play HA? Or work on your new paragon?

No, its not the same reason. I for one never whined about IWAY, Spirit Spam, etc. In fact I enjoyed thoes builds, especailly IWAY But you see the problem here is not that we (well most of us that are complaining) can't beat Heroway, its that its ****ing boring to own AI. Playing against real players was what made HA fun, to me at least.

While I do see the validity in your point, since you're right the people that are complaining about heroway cuz they lose to it are probably the same ones who compalined about iway, spirit spam, etc. But thats only a small portion of the people complaining. The real complaint is described in the above paragraph.


Anyways,
/signed

/signed
Heros PvP should be expanded, but it shouldn't replace HA.

omg!!!! 9 out of 10 team in HA all heroway/henchyway....so much of what was said of IWAY etc, now this heroway is like 100 times worse .....Anet you guys should really look into this man....

/signed

playing against hero isnt fair, they have superb "reflexes" and wont miss an interrupt, neither delay a spike and such

also its much more fun making a humanteam to fight against other humanteams than those NPC parties

Wouldn't the other team being an idiot give you an advantage?

Back on topic: if people would stop excluding because of rank you wouldn't see as much heros. Heros are also used because it is alot easier and faster than forming a group. I see some people complaining about getting ganked by 2 hero teams. What exactly is the difference between them doing that and humans doing that?

Well first of all, GW isn't becoming a SINGLE PLAYER GAME!!...the reason why people prefer heroes is because it's brand new. And brand new things are popular...Wait till it gets old, I bet many people will have less heros than now.

Anyway, back to the HA problem. Yeah I agree that heroes are way over powered in pvp, and I hate when some of them kill me..they are NPC'S!!!!! So yeah I'll

/sign

(so plz keep heroes out of HA and let them fight in heroes battle thank you )

/signed

Well, I don't really have all that much to say that hasn't really been said before tbh. Yunas Ele did a rather thorough job in explaining the various reasons why heroes are extremely detrimental to the quality of the games you will play in HA.

The reason heroes should be removed from HA is not really because they are overpowered but more because they simply arn't an enjoyable opponent to fight against. How often do you hear a hero say "Gl hf" or "gg"? How often do you get the playful comments you hear from actual players appearing in team chat? Or even the irrational messages of hate from a recently defeated opponent, which in my opinion are simply priceless. ;x

Isn't a victory more satisfying when achieved with a group of friends or simply a group of people you have just met? And isn't the victory even more sweet when it's a group of actual people you have outwitted and outplayed rather than an 'upgraded AI'.

This destruction of the 'social' and human aspect of HA is, in my opinion the most damaging effect the introduction of the hero system has had.

Oh and before you all start complaining about how difficult it is for an unranked to find a team who will let them in, I am r4 and it is still difficult for me to find a team. ;D I only began to explore the pvp aspect of GW rather recently and even working my way up to my lowly little r4 was a difficult experience but ultimately a rewarding one, which I achieved while making many new friends at the same time. ^^

/signed

well..obviuosly human won't do that coz not everyone in the team will agree with this noobie, mindless and selfish act im sure...

I pvp to play against other teams of real people. Not Player Vs AI. HA is a joke atm
/signed

HA was always a joke.

Does everyone forget the "r3+ b-spike team forming. Must show title or boot"
messages that flood HA. or how about the "looking for r7+ trappers for IWAY" messages.

So, Heroes let those unranked players make their own team and let them do HA. The HA community has been an "elitist" group as it is ever since IWAY broke the ranking system. New players have alot of trouble breaking into HA because they don't have the title, which you get from doing HA. Perhaps they feel threatened now that anyone can form a team for HA, even if their rank is not high enough.

Then again, if 1 or 2 people with their heroes can micro better than the 6 people on your team, you probably weren't going to cap Halls anyway.

/Not Signed

There is still a player on that other team, and he's owning you. Hence, its PvP.

As for Heroes and henchmen making Guild Wars single-player, it has to do with either:
A. Those who are tired of being ridiculed for being a "noob"
or
B. Those who complain that they are tired of getting in a team of "noobs"

Im guessing half of the people who are in favor of this have never set foot in HA before this update. I'm still seein rediculous arguments bout everything being bspike and iway. FFS people, those builds have been gone for over a month now.

Make a valid comment or make no comment at all. If you cant understand the current state is wrong you lack all forms of common sense imo.

PVP = player vs player, thats all that has to be said

HA is boring going up against heroes every damn match ... needs to go ASAP

/signed

There it is people!! The hidden truth behind all these whiners posts! Friggin humans can't play nearly as good as them (heroes)!! Human vs Human is ok sure, cuz they both suck, but throw in a Hero, BLAM! There goes the FotM, cookie cutter builds, spikes, etc!. Jeez, we can customize heroes? I guess humans can't customize a build, OH WAIT, they use the builds they get off of websites, duh, silly me! They MAY not know what customization is.

You know, one thing i've seen hardly any, if any at all of, is any of the GOOD Heroe's Ascent players. I have yet to see one in here whining and complaining about this change. They obviously know how to adapt. Thats me talking in all seriousness. If you don't know how to adapt to the situation, you obviously don't know what you are doing. You couldn't even do it right with heroes yourself. You suck. terribly.

If your telling me that you got to your rank 12 with hard work, then what's stopping you from showing us henchways, your worthiness of that phoenix or tiger, or deer or frog or walrus! Show us that some NPC's aren't gonna stop you from getting to your next emote, show it off! Cuz that's all that HA really means to you...unfortunately.

I'm reminded of something that happened to the PvEr's awhile back, oh wait, this happened about...a week ago! We were believing that the enemy AI was bugged and felt that they were fleeing as soon as they got hit once, kiting is what you call it. PvPers were going into that thread posting "HAha freaking noobs, adapt or die!", "bring a crippling skills, a hex!" Guess what, I did. I adapted, and now those freaking AVICARA are getting they're asses handed to them!

Anyways enough with my ranting. And yes save the bambis, they are becoming extinct! Keep Heroe's in forever!

/Not Signed x2

If this (PVP = player vs player, thats all that has to be said) is the best argument YOU have, then your argument is no more valid than what everyone else in favor of this is for. You are still playing vs other humans. It's just not a full team of humans. BUT it's still humans on that team. You know what makes that team better than a full NPC group like the zaishen you go up against? It's because that sole human in that group is gonna let the rest of the group know that their enemies are near, and they will attack before you have time to set up whatever it is your gonna set up to kill them. They are smarter than full human teams, and smarter than full NPC teams. And those getting their asses handed because of this can't stand it.

First of all people with your attitude do not even deserve a computer imho.

Secondly, Computer AI in this day and age is still stupid. Koss is a moron because he can't follow Sever Artery with Gash

Thirdly, GW is ANet's game. Whinge all you want, but at the end of the day it's up to them what they do with the game.

first.

Ignore those 2-3 people who say

"OMG hero kick my ass kick them out"

begin to list all the other who say

"OMG HA is worse then ever"

Need some cheese with that whine?

/not signed.

This gives the lower ranks a chance to play now. Which is what it should do.
Learn another build other than IWAY.

AI isn't as great as you make it out to be, I'm guessing you're exaggerating to hide your shortcomings.

/Not Signed

People complain its not PVP if its Heros but dont forget the Heros are "An Extension of your character -Anet" their skills, attributes and armour are all determined by players. Not all people have the time to spend hours to find a good team that works well together. And us in small guilds cant always call upon reliable friends to join us for a bit of PVP fun. Why should we be practically left out of the HA circle and given no hope in hell of ever gaining Fame just because larger guilds and/or more PVP orientated players don’t like fighting too hard or too easy fights against other players and there heros.

/signed

Apart from the obvious flaws of the AI such as spazzing out when taking AoE damage, they can only be as boring as the build they're given..

Also i agree with Sophitia, it's down to player skill and knowledge to make the hero's useful.. I did HA yesterday for the first time in weeks with hero's and i got 6 wins in a row and made it to halls (and lost to a dual smite xD), I only made it there because i picked my targets properly and my team build was decent.

/notsigned

yeah its pretty annoying that people will consider someone with rank 0 to be a noob. if someone uses heroes and attains rank 3 quickly than he obviously has some talent. There's no way that a noob will attain rank 3 with heroes because you have to control 4 characters at once and have 2 shitty henchies. Its not easy. This is giving people a chance to show that yes they're rank 0, but they're batter in fact than some really stupid fame farming rank 9s.

If "Nonskilled" 10 year olds are kicking YOUR can with hench, then maybe you should look upon yourself whos nonskilled.
/not signed

And the higher-ranks playing heroway? Explain that one.

Because they couldn't find six guildies for a team right then? I should think that would be obvious. The only time I'd ever consider a PUG over the AI is when I know some of the people in the PUG.

Tis a very good reason

All you people cannot understand that by playing with Hero/Hench you are actually not learning ANYTHING. You are also having NONE of the FUN of a PVP game.

A PVP game is NOT about "fame." period.
A PVP game is about communication with your team members, calling adren spikes, positioning, bodyblocking, telling your team how you made the monk raqequit after p draining his orison 3rd time in a row. C+Space and a "Victory" sign dont even come close.

Winning Halls with heroway in 30mins maybe nice, but I would much rather prefer a proper match for 30mins if it was in the underworld and EVEN if we lost.

Halls was a joke before, now its just sad.

Ok then, all I'm saying is the arguement that "Only n00bz R going 2 bring heroz anywayz! LAWLZ!" is about stupid.

Noobs are using Heros
Vets are using Heros
Unskilled players are using Heros
Skilled players are using Heros
EVERYONE'S using Heros.

Some heroways are winnging - some are are losing.

So, IMHO, "But only _X_ is going to use Heroway - anyway!" is a moot point.

"But Heroway sucks anyway!", also moot.

The only arguement that really means anything here is:

"Is PvP with a few NPCs to create match conditions (Ghostly Hero, Guild Lord - etc) that same thing as a 99% AI team simply led by a Player (Heroway)?"

I say no. I'm guessing most other people will say no, too.

Which brings the question up - "Do you care? Does it matter to you if you're playing PvP or PvE masquerading as PvP?"

And I do.

If I choose to play PvP - I don't want someone who feels like bringing Heroway to be able to nullify my choice to play PvP.

Everytime I face a heroway team I feel like someone's going "Thought you were gonna PvP?? THINK AGAIN, NOOB!!! LAWLZ!"

And I don't like it.

This is rediculous, all you ppl who are saying its great that we can take heroes because we wouldn't get a team any other way - why are you even wanting to do HA?

I hope you guys understand this... the only difference between 3 heroes and a real player and 3 henchies and a real player is that heroes DON'T suck.

When HA became 6v6, any 2 players could make their own team. Now, 2 can make their own hero team and 1 can make a hero/hench team. So instead of fighting 2 people, you are fighting possibly one. Oh noes!!!!

Isn't PvP about skill? What takes more skill- grabbing a build off of guildwiki and hitting the 1 key, or micromanaging several heroes in unison with your teammate to win. You say "Well rl ppl wont obey this noob heroes do!" If he's such a noob and his strategies kick your ass, maybe that's a sign that your cookie cutter build just isn't good enough. Maybe when you get beat by that "unranked noob", it isn't because he has heroes- it's because his heroes actually take him seriously and maybe the kid isn't as bad as you think he is just because he hasn't farmed for fame with IWAY.

Maybe because they bought the game too and want to enjoy it? The HA community is just a bunch of elitists, it's nearly impossible for a new player to join the FUN. I guess you can't have fun unless you're a rank 7? Even if you're just as good as them? Maybe they didn't spend $300 on an account off of ebay? Is that a requirement for fun? I think not.

Really Skuld, is it too much to ask that the people want to have FUN on Guild Wars? If you can't beat a hero team, it's because your team simply wasn't prepared or wasn't good enough. Heroes don't get extra armor, they don't get extra health, they don't attack twice as fast. The only advantages to heroes are faster reaction time and the fact that ANYBODY can make a group. The disadvantages of using heroes are that it takes great skill and heroes can't think for themselves like real people can. If you get beat by a hero group or a real group, you got beat, gg. If you beat a real group or a hero group, then congrats.

8 districts reduced to 2 and everything being heroway, fun? I'm a lowly 300-and-something fame, and me and a friend play together on-and-off. This is a lot more fun than commanding a bunch of bots. The claim of not getting a group is BS, what am I doing with pugs that others are not? Looking/trying? -_-