Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cybah
well not signed. I, rank 0, want fame too :P
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The current state of Heroes Ascent and propsed solutions
BenO_Under
Mysterial
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
Ya, I wouldn't mind that either. Would be nice if their were different 'modes' to HvH or something, instead of only having the one style of map as it is. I see where you're coming on and personally wouldn't mind an arena like that either, but the thing is, it just doesn't belong in HA. I'm guessing you didn't HA much before this update so you don't really see our point of view. For most of us, this new form of HA is horrible in comparison to what it use to be.
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Banger
Even though you were running it a couple nights ago Yunas, I'll still
/sign
I totally agree because only fighting Hero Ways isn't any fun because you know there are no people raging on vent on the other side when you win.
/sign
I totally agree because only fighting Hero Ways isn't any fun because you know there are no people raging on vent on the other side when you win.
tomcruisejr
day after i got NF, i played with Heroway testing different builds. Minion factory, OoV IWAY, thumpway, ranger spike, EoE bomb. quite fun. i may try to run different combo and im getting used/studying hero's ai atm.
i dont care bout the seriousness of HA competition. HA should be fun, for all. even with the "abundance" of hero ways there, there are still 6 human teams. they are still forming. hex, iQ, sierra and his reno guys, etc. with heroes, your team fights 6 man teams and hero way teams (formed to farm fame or just to kill time and have fun). without heroes, your team fights 6 man teams and 6 man crappy teams (formed coz they got no rank / fame to start with).
i think you're all overreacting.
i dont care bout the seriousness of HA competition. HA should be fun, for all. even with the "abundance" of hero ways there, there are still 6 human teams. they are still forming. hex, iQ, sierra and his reno guys, etc. with heroes, your team fights 6 man teams and hero way teams (formed to farm fame or just to kill time and have fun). without heroes, your team fights 6 man teams and 6 man crappy teams (formed coz they got no rank / fame to start with).
i think you're all overreacting.
aeroclown
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tomcruisejr
i think you're all overreacting. |
If its not one thing its the other. To be frank newbies have been excluded for a long time from pvp areas by rank, not by all, but by large not by a minority, and now that they have an avenue to have as much fun as they want to by having access to the "Content they paid for" I do not see a problem. I mean we all "want to have access to the content we have paid for ". . . .
isn't that right, or did I miss something in the other 50 threads about every other feature that has been added over the past year.yes flame bait i'm sure this is what it will be classified, but I thought I'd post it anyway ignore me if you like.
The Silver Star
[QUOTE=aeroclown]If its not one thing its the other. To be frank newbies have been excluded for a long time from pvp areas by rank[QUOTE]
Basically, i started HA a "fresh" on my PvE account from scratch about 4 months ago, i didnt feel excluded because i wasnt rank9 and couldt play in r9 because i wasnt r9 so thats my problem even though i was capable, i played tombs making my own partys in ENGLISH disricts with unranked people and taught them a lot. It took me a week to get r3 with unranked players (mainly the same players) Were the excluded because of rank? no because they had none and neither did i, but do they have a rank now? yes they do and they actually learnt thing about HA even simple things. Playing with heroes these people wouldnt of learnt anything. Newbies are not excluded most are usually PvE people that want there bambi, just want it easy to get fame without going and making there own team and learning new things from speaking and discussing builds with real people. I miss the "glory" days of HA where there were around 15 English/American districts and a lot of unranked pugs forming but rank is needed in most teams as a "basis" for player ability and usually the higher rank the more experience and better player ability, that is why higher rank players are chosen over unranked players. If you were eg rank6 and you were making a group the chances of you taking an unranked newbie you dont know are almost 2% unless your doing it for a joke.
- Tight Panties
Basically, i started HA a "fresh" on my PvE account from scratch about 4 months ago, i didnt feel excluded because i wasnt rank9 and couldt play in r9 because i wasnt r9 so thats my problem even though i was capable, i played tombs making my own partys in ENGLISH disricts with unranked people and taught them a lot. It took me a week to get r3 with unranked players (mainly the same players) Were the excluded because of rank? no because they had none and neither did i, but do they have a rank now? yes they do and they actually learnt thing about HA even simple things. Playing with heroes these people wouldnt of learnt anything. Newbies are not excluded most are usually PvE people that want there bambi, just want it easy to get fame without going and making there own team and learning new things from speaking and discussing builds with real people. I miss the "glory" days of HA where there were around 15 English/American districts and a lot of unranked pugs forming but rank is needed in most teams as a "basis" for player ability and usually the higher rank the more experience and better player ability, that is why higher rank players are chosen over unranked players. If you were eg rank6 and you were making a group the chances of you taking an unranked newbie you dont know are almost 2% unless your doing it for a joke.
- Tight Panties
Lykan
Can we take [hex]'s streak last nite as an example of things to come?
Would that have been possible if there were no heroways in HA? I seriously doubt it.
No disrespect to the guys they did a great job but if there were more real teams in HoH last nite i'm sure they would have been kicked out a lot earlier. (actually they only lost because of an err 7
).
Would that have been possible if there were no heroways in HA? I seriously doubt it.
No disrespect to the guys they did a great job but if there were more real teams in HoH last nite i'm sure they would have been kicked out a lot earlier. (actually they only lost because of an err 7
).
Lord Mendes
Sorry for the trolling. At least it got your attention, unlike last thread where everyone simply posted "Noob if you lose to heroway quit PVp!" :P.
Well I think I have already said enough about this subject.
OFFTOPIC: lost to my first heroway last night on UW. Stupid lag...
Well I think I have already said enough about this subject.
OFFTOPIC: lost to my first heroway last night on UW. Stupid lag...
Siren
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Originally Posted by aeroclown
they have an avenue to have as much fun as they want to by having access to the "Content they paid for" I do not see a problem. I mean we all "want to have access to the content we have paid for ". . . .
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The only people who are really clamoring for Heroway are either slightly experienced in PvP, or come straight out of PvE. But judging by the sheer incoherence and blatant misunderstanding demonstrated in the "pro-Hero" arguments, I can only conclude that the vocal supporters of Heroway here are in fact PvErs, because there's no understanding of what PvP actually is.
And as such, when did PvErs start caring about actually playing in HA? Historically, they haven't given two shats about actively participating, only just complaining about how they feel "locked out" from "content they paid for" due to FoW and UW access depending on victories in HA. But now they want to form their own teams with five NPCs and run stupid-simple builds, presumably only for fame-acquisition, rather than, oh, I don't know...maybe what people were recommending they do back last year, like win the halls for favor? Like stop whining and actually do something about it?
So what's the deal here? Why this sudden change? Because of Heroes? That's just a load of horsecrap. These people are attracted to HA because it just became PvE. That's all. It's not because it's "easier to get groups" because it's always been easy to get groups, provided the person isn't completely braindead or totally inept when it comes to networking.
Gargle Blaster
/not signed
more compitition is good... let natural selection deal with your problems...
if people is doing heroway and dieing they will not play as much... or learn and get better --either way it is good.
more compitition is good... let natural selection deal with your problems...
if people is doing heroway and dieing they will not play as much... or learn and get better --either way it is good.
tomcruisejr
and people who are saying that youll learn nothing from heroes dont know what they are talking about .
if youre a warrior with 2 thumper heroes, youll learn how to pressure a team or you can practice pressuring opponents by directing your 2 heroes to different targets of your choice or what not. it's like you calling out "tactics".
obviously, you wont learn nothing from hero way if all you know is playing fire ele searing flame heroway.
if youre a warrior with 2 thumper heroes, youll learn how to pressure a team or you can practice pressuring opponents by directing your 2 heroes to different targets of your choice or what not. it's like you calling out "tactics".
obviously, you wont learn nothing from hero way if all you know is playing fire ele searing flame heroway.
Linksys
I got a bit more fame points in an all gamer team. The leader was nice enough to suggest changes to my build and we did alright. My preference is an all gamer team. But I support the use of Heros in HA. I just noticed that PvP characters have access to unlocked heros, so obviously this was meant for PvP. Now I'll be on the lookout for people sharing their Hero builds, incase I wish to do that sort of thing.
Not A Fifty Five
/not signed
the reason Good but no extremely good guilds like hex are winning ASTRONOMICALLY is because the great pvpers of our time are actually PvEing lol. I'm hearing the Spearmen are back in playing and I've seen a few familiar guilds popping up as well.
the reason Good but no extremely good guilds like hex are winning ASTRONOMICALLY is because the great pvpers of our time are actually PvEing lol. I'm hearing the Spearmen are back in playing and I've seen a few familiar guilds popping up as well.
Darkpower Alchemist
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Originally Posted by glountz
Because I don't think Heroes removal is THE solution. (And if you sign, it is for hero removal).
I don't want to keep PVEer "casual PvPer seeking for cool emote" out of HA. The casual PvPer of now might be the future elite of HA. But I understand that HA PVPer want to keep a high quality of PvP play. Correct team matching as it is now in GvG is the correct answer to the problem (IMHO, of course), not pure hero removal. |
Or at least lessen the chance of people fighting heroway teams all the time.
Darkpower Alchemist
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Originally Posted by Siren
The only people who are really clamoring for Heroway are either slightly experienced in PvP, or come straight out of PvE. But judging by the sheer incoherence and blatant misunderstanding demonstrated in the "pro-Hero" arguments, I can only conclude that the vocal supporters of Heroway here are in fact PvErs, because there's no understanding of what PvP actually is.
And as such, when did PvErs start caring about actually playing in HA? Historically, they haven't given two shats about actively participating, only just complaining about how they feel "locked out" from "content they paid for" due to FoW and UW access depending on victories in HA. But now they want to form their own teams with five NPCs and run stupid-simple builds, presumably only for fame-acquisition, rather than, oh, I don't know...maybe what people were recommending they do back last year, like win the halls for favor? Like stop whining and actually do something about it? So what's the deal here? Why this sudden change? Because of Heroes? That's just a load of horsecrap. These people are attracted to HA because it just became PvE. That's all. It's not because it's "easier to get groups" because it's always been easy to get groups, provided the person isn't completely braindead or totally inept when it comes to networking. |
You can't be serious,and if you are, then you are insane!
The elitists made it nearly impossible to get involved in HA, with all the rankism( new phrase, I think
) that radiates from the players who stand around and want to see emotes that represent rank 6+. Your way of thinking is what makes HA undesireable for those that play PvE, but maybe that is where your logic stems from.This attitude you showed in your post is the exact same attitude that kept me from even wanting to be in HA for the first year of GW, and kept me among the PvEers, who play to play. You, my angry illogical friend, and those like you, are the cause of the problem you now face.
Leave the elitism, the rankism, in the past. If you are so "Leet", beat the heroway teams sensless and keep it moving, and stop wasting good memory space on this Hero hating nonsense.
Can we get back to playing the game now? Please?
Akimi Akatsuki
Too bad we'll always have elitists there is no way to get rid of them really. If you want to remove elitists from HA then remove rank. Then they won't have anything to be elite about, but that wouldn't be fair to them would it?
supaet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
This is the elitist ignorance rearing its ugly head. Do you honestly think ever single PvPer playing this game has NEVER attempted to play in HA?
You can't be serious,and if you are, then you are insane! The elitists made it nearly impossible to get involved in HA, with all the rankism( new phrase, I think ) that radiates from the players who stand around and want to see emotes that represent rank 6+. Your way of thinking is what makes HA undesireable for those that play PvE, but maybe that is where your logic stems from.This attitude you showed in your post is the exact same attitude that kept me from even wanting to be in HA for the first year of GW, and kept me among the PvEers, who play to play. You, my angry illogical friend, and those like you, are the cause of the problem you now face. Leave the elitism, the rankism, in the past. If you are so "Leet", beat the heroway teams sensless and keep it moving, and stop wasting good memory space on this Hero hating nonsense. Can we get back to playing the game now? Please? |
Siren
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Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
This is the elitist ignorance rearing its ugly head. Do you honestly think every single PvPer playing this game has NEVER attempted to play in HA?
You can't be serious,and if you are, then you are insane! The elitists made it nearly impossible to get involved in HA, with all the rankism( new phrase, I think ) that radiates from the players who stand around and want to see emotes that represent rank 6+. Your way of thinking is what makes HA undesireable for those that play PvE, but maybe that is where your logic stems from.This attitude you showed in your post is the exact same attitude that kept me from even wanting to be in HA for the first year of GW, and kept me among the PvEers, who play to play. You, my angry illogical friend, and those like you, are the cause of the problem you now face. Leave the elitism, the rankism, in the past. If you are so "Leet", beat the heroway teams sensless and keep it moving, and stop wasting good memory space on this Hero hating nonsense. Can we get back to playing the game now? Please? |
And before you go spouting off at me, telling me I'm looking for rank flashes, you'd best step-off and check yourself, because if you want to get into that kind of pissing contest, I guarantee that you'll lose...considering that I don't give two shats about rank at all, and that my group of HA buds have always been unconcerned about rank. In fact, we boot people from the team who flash us their rank. We laugh when people flash rank after they get a kill. We make fun of people like that. We make fun of people who place such an emphasis on rank. Just like I'd make fun of the people here who do Heroway to get rank.
Do you know why? Because rank is meaningless to those who know what in the hell is going on.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
/sign
Fighting AI is for us PVE'ers. No reason why the people who want to fight other people should be forced into PVE
And to the guy above me...
"Step-off"? "Check yourself"? What era did you crawl out of man? 1995 ended a while ago.
Fighting AI is for us PVE'ers. No reason why the people who want to fight other people should be forced into PVE
And to the guy above me...
"Step-off"? "Check yourself"? What era did you crawl out of man? 1995 ended a while ago.
Lord Mendes
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Originally Posted by Akimi Akatsuki
Too bad we'll always have elitists there is no way to get rid of them really. If you want to remove elitists from HA then remove rank. Then they won't have anything to be elite about, but that wouldn't be fair to them would it?
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Why get rid of them? Without them HA would have been dead while you were still a lvl 8 following Rurik out of Ascalon.
I'm loving this, people that have never or rarely HAed and have no idea how it works are worried about elitists ruining their arena. pffft.
It's like me complaining to Anet that loot is useless in PvE and we should get balthz faction instead. It would ruin the game for many, but it would make me PvE for 2 weeks instead of 1.
I am not a rank elitist and I know that rank is absolute trash, this post really bothered me though. You guys are newbs (newbies, beginners) to HA and you are thinking of ways to kick the older and more experienced players out of HA?
I didn't need heroes to start off in HA, and Anet didnt help me out when my rankless teams were getting beat to the ground by airspike. There wasn't even an observe mode, and the forums were very limited in builds. I played, learnt, got bambis/wolves/tigers flashed in my face. I still kept playing, got my rank, and realized that it is trash.
You are taking the lazy way out, and want to kick the people that actually grind their rank. Even if they did get it from IWAY, they still deserve to be in HA more than you imo.
Flame, troll, call it what you will. Hell, delete this post if you think im being too rude.
Simple truth is that you're not a good gamer, otherwise you would already have your rank.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
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Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
I am not a rank elitist and I know that rank is absolute trash, this post really bothered me though. You guys are newbs (newbies, beginners) to HA and you are thinking of ways to kick the older and more experienced players out of HA?
I played, learnt, got bambis/wolves/tigers flashed in my face. I still kept playing, got my rank, and realized that it is trash. You are taking the lazy way out, and want to kick the people that actually grind their rank. Even if they did get it from IWAY, they still deserve to be in HA more than you imo. Simple truth is that you're not a good gamer, otherwise you would already have your rank. |
For instance the first statement about "You guys are newbs (newbies, beginners)"
Next to the last one.
How would beginners have their rank already? They're beginners. And being beginners does not make them bad players, simply unexperienced.
Then there's the IWAY comment, next to the Grind comment. As I recall, last year all of the grinders were bitching because IWAY was cheating them out of their fame and rank.
Finally, I dont believe rank and fame were the reasont his argument started. I believe it was that people wanted to play against other players, and heroes were stopping that from happening.
Lord Mendes
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Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
Lets count the conflicting sentences.
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Wanting rank is stupid, but getting it with real players > getting it with heroes.
Hero fame farmers < cookie cutter fame farmers.
(newbs) (old timers)
Simply because they played PvP for their rank, not tomb of primeval kings (PvE part).
I was simply answering the guy that basically claimed he wanted to kick all elitists out of HA
They would already have their rank because most of them claim they couldn't find any parties. If these people wanted 2 get rank (which they clearly do, and are herowaying for it) they could have easily gotten it before all hell broke lose in HA.
IWAYers = the fame grinders, and people were bitching about them because it was an overpowered build that could be succesfully run by any1 with an axe.
I am not contributing to the original purpose of this thread, I have already posted my argument and /signed this.
Arcanis the Omnipotent
And there, sadly, is what they are talking about.
The elitist attitude.
"We've been doing this longer so we're better than you, and the way we do it is better than yours."
The elitist attitude.
"We've been doing this longer so we're better than you, and the way we do it is better than yours."
Siren
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Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
"We've been doing this longer so we're better than you, and the way we do it is better than yours."
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Quote:
| "Step-off"? "Check yourself"? What era did you crawl out of man? 1995 ended a while ago. |
c_ras
/super signed
PvP = Player vs. Player
'nuff said
PvP = Player vs. Player
'nuff said
M3lk0r
I know this has been said before, but I'm just going to repeat it because I can:
Rank, heroes, IWAY etc etc will never get you anywhere. What HA (and GW organised PVP in general) needs is a GUI based party system where people can look for other people with similar interests.
In general, I am in favour of ways of helping newer people with GW PVP as
a) GW PvP can actually be really cool and atm its quite hard on the new person and b) the MONTHS (not days, not weeks, but MONTHS) of torture I had to endure to have FUN in a "game."
Sadly, Heroes dont help the new player at all as.. well.... its just PVE on new maps! Unless the new player in question is exceptionally bright and notices the opponent's (if he is lucky enough to play a "real" opponent) strategies etc.
Rank, heroes, IWAY etc etc will never get you anywhere. What HA (and GW organised PVP in general) needs is a GUI based party system where people can look for other people with similar interests.
In general, I am in favour of ways of helping newer people with GW PVP as
a) GW PvP can actually be really cool and atm its quite hard on the new person and b) the MONTHS (not days, not weeks, but MONTHS) of torture I had to endure to have FUN in a "game."
Sadly, Heroes dont help the new player at all as.. well.... its just PVE on new maps! Unless the new player in question is exceptionally bright and notices the opponent's (if he is lucky enough to play a "real" opponent) strategies etc.
Lord Mendes
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Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent
And there, sadly, is what they are talking about.
The elitist attitude. "We've been doing this longer so we're better than you, and the way we do it is better than yours." |
You gotta keep in mind that i was answering the guy that said that "HA would be so much better without those elitists, they don't accept me into their teams".
I am saying that people that grind fame with IWAY are better because they did kill real players, not some random person and his 5 heroes. I don't consider that PvP.
They have been playing for longer and know more about HA. I would rather those fame farmers be considered HAers, not people that got fame with heroway from killing other heroways.
shardfenix
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
So, anyone whos been to Heroes Ascent knows how disgusting this place has become... The fun factor is gone.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
My propsed solution is to limit it so that no more than 50% (3 players) of the team can be heroes or henchmen. This means you must have at least 3 real players on the team to enter.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
Reason to keep HA as it is #1: The only reason people are complaining about Heroes is because they can't beat Heroes! If you can't beat Heroes you shouldn't play HA...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
HA was for PvP players that liked to fight other real players.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yunas Ele
If you don't like to play with other people you shouldn't be playing HA, maybe not even playing Guild Wars.
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Personally I would like to see 8 mean teams in HA again. There is no room for a build in 6 man. The more player slots you take away, the more unbalanced/unfair each team becomes over each other. When you get down to 1v1, it doesn't matter who's better, only the skill bars matter. HA will never be 1v1, but you can see where I'm going with this.
As I already pointed out, enforcing 50% human teams will do absolutely nothing. However, it is called Player vs. Player for a reason, and I think henchies/AI should be banned unless you get disconnected. Same for GvG, although henchies in gvg usually means you lose.
Addressing some of the reasons people would want to keep the current HA, if you don't like the LFG grind, post in Sardelac about making a random HA system...like a random-mini HA that doesn't win favor, but is otherwise the same.
If you hate playing with other players, luckily there is a thing called PvE, where you can beat the game without actually talking to another human being.
Sometimes I wonder what HA would be like if there was no fame reward for winning the lower levels. I think JR posted something like that.
Yunas Ele
Quote:
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Originally Posted by shardfenix
I'm gonna take the high road this time and not say anything about builds people used to play.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by shardfenix
3 humans, 3 heroes, 2 of the humans leave = nothing changed, now they just get a fighter hench instead of a mage.
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Progor - first off, great post. Definately the best post supporting keeping heroes in that I've seen yet. But the thing is, putting the commander against the marines is really not a fair match up. Theres just so much going on in a battle that its really not possible to expect a heroway to put up a good fight against a team of real players. You could be the best commander in the game for all I care, but the fact is theres really just so much going on that you won't be able to compete fairly. That and while the controls we have over the AI are nice, their still not good enough to make them play as well as another player. Things like hotkeying hero skills would make this betters. So basically I think keep the commanders to fight other commanders (Hero vs Hero) and let the marines fight the marines (HA). Its not a fair match up having marines vs commander. Really the only way I have seen the heroway teams stand a chance against an above average HA team is by running overpowered skills like searing flames and rape as one...
Akimi Akatsuki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
Dude, are you serious?
Why get rid of them? Without them HA would have been dead while you were still a lvl 8 following Rurik out of Ascalon. I'm loving this, people that have never or rarely HAed and have no idea how it works are worried about elitists ruining their arena. pffft. It's like me complaining to Anet that loot is useless in PvE and we should get balthz faction instead. It would ruin the game for many, but it would make me PvE for 2 weeks instead of 1. I am not a rank elitist and I know that rank is absolute trash, this post really bothered me though. You guys are newbs (newbies, beginners) to HA and you are thinking of ways to kick the older and more experienced players out of HA? I didn't need heroes to start off in HA, and Anet didnt help me out when my rankless teams were getting beat to the ground by airspike. There wasn't even an observe mode, and the forums were very limited in builds. I played, learnt, got bambis/wolves/tigers flashed in my face. I still kept playing, got my rank, and realized that it is trash. You are taking the lazy way out, and want to kick the people that actually grind their rank. Even if they did get it from IWAY, they still deserve to be in HA more than you imo. Flame, troll, call it what you will. Hell, delete this post if you think im being too rude. Simple truth is that you're not a good gamer, otherwise you would already have your rank. |
DIH49
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
I was simply answering the guy that basically claimed he wanted to kick all elitists out of HA
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Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place.
Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place.
I have never yet met the anti-elitist who could provide an answer to my dilemma.
With that said, I find it rather amusing that people are still arguing the accessibility claim in the face of (what I believe to be) my crippling rebuttal. I think I've shown that the accessibility argument is fundamentally flawed and should be ignored.
************************************************** ********
@Yunas: I think you're giving Progor's analogy too much credit. It's certainly a fantastic analogy with regards to the arious sorts of games that people like to play, but it somewhat misses the important question. Namely, does it and should it apply to GW? I think the answer is clearly not. GW is not a game designed around the idea of commanding forces. That is simply a different sort of game, the RTS or sim genres. GW is a game about team interrelations, or in Progor's terms it's about being a "marine" with your buddies. It may very well be the case that people like the commander aspect too. Hell, I enjoy an RTS myself from time to time. But that's just a separate issue.
LoStLaNdS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Akimi Akatsuki
Too bad we'll always have elitists there is no way to get rid of them really. If you want to remove elitists from HA then remove rank. Then they won't have anything to be elite about, but that wouldn't be fair to them would it?
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Which, in a way is true. Those with higher rank, more experienced, and those who have Heroes.
Higher rank would look down on newcomers and Those who control have Heroes, would only look for those who have Heroes and experience.
I think its just a comment of that the only way for Elitist to be entirely removed is to remove any competitive ranking systems.
So that is where the last question would come in. It would be unfair for those who are already of that statue. Hence, its contradicting his thoughts rendering it meaningless.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
Dude, are you serious?
Why get rid of them? Without them HA would have been dead while you were still a lvl 8 following Rurik out of Ascalon. I'm loving this, people that have never or rarely HAed and have no idea how it works are worried about elitists ruining their arena. pffft. It's like me complaining to Anet that loot is useless in PvE and we should get balthz faction instead. It would ruin the game for many, but it would make me PvE for 2 weeks instead of 1. I am not a rank elitist and I know that rank is absolute trash, this post really bothered me though. You guys are newbs (newbies, beginners) to HA and you are thinking of ways to kick the older and more experienced players out of HA? I didn't need heroes to start off in HA, and Anet didnt help me out when my rankless teams were getting beat to the ground by airspike. There wasn't even an observe mode, and the forums were very limited in builds. I played, learnt, got bambis/wolves/tigers flashed in my face. I still kept playing, got my rank, and realized that it is trash. You are taking the lazy way out, and want to kick the people that actually grind their rank. Even if they did get it from IWAY, they still deserve to be in HA more than you imo. Flame, troll, call it what you will. Hell, delete this post if you think im being too rude. Simple truth is that you're not a good gamer, otherwise you would already have your rank. |
Sorry, but since Akimi is a friend of mines, I would have to say that your opposing arguments are nothing then fighting your own thoughts. The purpose of Akimi's post was nothing but just thoughts and ideas of "what ifs". There was no reason to "smash and bash" on his words.
LoStLaNdS
Interesting fact that my friend, Akimi Akatsuki, and I have found that would put an end to this on-going debate on Heroes in PvP.
Source: http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/synopsis/
The Third Paragraph down.
The Original foundation which this game is build on is stated in the following quote.
It mentions about PvPing and specifically says "Player-versus-Player".
The context means, this game is mainly for player skills and teamwork in PvPing and to not spend as much time PvEing to complete your build/character.
Mainly, it states overall that this game is more a PvPing game. Personal Nightfall Heroes is an idea that contradicts their original foundation. It added an extra E to PvPing, in which that E seems to be out of place. Hence, it should be removed.
*Before any opposing arguments arise that consist of things similar to "Stop whining", "Its part of the game". Heroes were not part of the game in the first place, stated in this argument. Heroes contradict their originally ideas for this game. This is Fact, and if you have no evidence that supports your rebuttal, then it is wise not to say anything at all.
Source: http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/synopsis/
The Third Paragraph down.
The Original foundation which this game is build on is stated in the following quote.
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Built for Competition If you like Player-versus-Player competition, Guild Wars was made for you. In addition to building up a character by undergoing missions and quests, you can choose to create a character specifically for head-to-head PvP competition or guild warfare. The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete. The game includes integrated support for guilds and guild alliances, with the ability to create unique guild emblems, to acquire guild halls, and to keep in touch through in-game guild messaging. Guilds can challenge other guilds to battle, compete for control of key parts of the world in alliance battles, and be ranked on a worldwide ladder. |
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| The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete. |
Mainly, it states overall that this game is more a PvPing game. Personal Nightfall Heroes is an idea that contradicts their original foundation. It added an extra E to PvPing, in which that E seems to be out of place. Hence, it should be removed.
*Before any opposing arguments arise that consist of things similar to "Stop whining", "Its part of the game". Heroes were not part of the game in the first place, stated in this argument. Heroes contradict their originally ideas for this game. This is Fact, and if you have no evidence that supports your rebuttal, then it is wise not to say anything at all.
Sujoy
/sign
its PvP not PvPw/AI
please keep it clean and fun.
what more do we have to say?
its PvP not PvPw/AI
please keep it clean and fun.
what more do we have to say?
DIH49
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Originally Posted by LoStLaNdS
Interesting fact that my friend, Akimi Akatsuki, and I have found that would put an end to this on-going debate on Heroes in PvP.
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aeroclown
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Originally Posted by Siren
The only time I've heard such an argument is when PvErs were fighting against HA's influence, when they were arguing against an emphasis on PvP. Now I'm seeing the same reasoning arguing for PvP? Or for access to HA? I'm sorry, but none of this is making any sense.
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Originally Posted by DIH49
There's nothing new or surprising about this information. The idea that heroes miss the point of PvP has been brought up several times. I myself went through a significant analysis of it a few pages back. It didn't seem to end the debate then, and I rather doubt it will now. The primary argument of the pro-hero crowd is for accessibility over purity. That is, that it's fine to dilute the nature of the arena if by doing so you make it more available to the general populace.
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LoStLaNdS
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Originally Posted by DIH49
There's nothing new or surprising about this information. The idea that heroes miss the point of PvP has been brought up several times. I myself went through a significant analysis of it a few pages back. It didn't seem to end the debate then, and I rather doubt it will now. The primary argument of the pro-hero crowd is for accessibility over purity. That is, that it's fine to dilute the nature of the arena if by doing so you make it more available to the general populace.
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DIH49
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Originally Posted by aeroclown
That to me would sound like the most logical explanation for the allowance of heroes and henchmen in PVP arenas, which was in essence the point of my post so very long ago. My assumption would be that explicitly because of the rank exclusion that has occurred in these arena over the past year, would be in effect the partial reason for the above. I think the second half of this problem is escalated by the fact that players have been asking for change in those area, not all but enough to warrant a change to allow new users the opportunity to experience PVP without the henderance of rank exclusion.
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The rank hinderance problem is an artifical one created by the players who feel hindered. That can easily be drawn from my elitism dilemma that I posted above. The "problem" nature is shown to be a direct result of misguided notions on behalf of the lower ranked person. As such, it is not a valid basis for changes to be made.
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Originally Posted by LoStLaNdS
But truly, this debate should have ended a while back. If only people did not continue to fuel their side with arguments that include non-sense and their personal greed for rank and fame...
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LoStLaNdS
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Originally Posted by DIH49
The arguments make sense somewhat, they are simply predicated on misguided notions. However these notions do not appear misguided on the face of it, so there is no particular shame in missing this aspect of them. I somewhat further feel that heroes are merely a scapegoat for ranting about the larger problems of the HA arena. In that sense the complaints aren't really about heroes at all in the first place so much as they merely include hereos incidentally.
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So are the main points of this debate more-so Elitism, ranking and accessibility issues rather than Heroes?
Thinking in another perspective, I believe that these are the problems before the introduction of Heroes.
But because of the introduction of Heroes, a new issue has surface and it has became a huge issue now, involving AI(E) in PvP.
So in addition to the problem earlier of Elitism, ranking and accessibility, this problem has now grown to be a bigger problem then before.
DIH49, I need some clarification.
If you say that Heroes is a scapegoat for ranting on bigger issues. What issues would that be? and for what side?.
Heroes currently are affecting those who used to be Elitist, ranked and those who do not possess a copy of NightFall. Those people are making all the accusations (That may also include me
). Yet, I do not see a problem, other then Heroes, for those kind of people.
DIH49
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Originally Posted by LoStLaNdS
So are the main points of this debate more-so Elitism, ranking and accessibility issues rather than Heroes?
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I think that the people arguing for heroes are not arguing for heroes so much as they are in general arguing for accessibility.
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| Thinking in another perspective, I believe that these are the problems before the introduction of Heroes. |
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| If you say that Heroes is a scapegoat for ranting on bigger issues. What issues would that be? and for what side?. |