The current state of Heroes Ascent and propsed solutions - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

10 Nov 2006 at 12:34 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Playing HA was always possible no matter what rank you are, therefore being accessible to all players. If you couldnt find a real party, it is totally your fault, not the "elitist".

Just needed to highlight that to stress my point. Anyways i have said my piece on the issue and wont press on. Good luck to those who /signed here, only time will tell what will happen next.

Fight the good fight, and for what you believe in. Though not all us may see in the same light.

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

10 Nov 2006 at 12:46 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

Just needed to highlight that to stress my point.

?
Yeah... i'll be sure to pick up an unranked touch ranger next time i need one more for HA. Blaming the fact that you can't find a team on any1 but yourself it total BS...
"I don't get good grades! It's the smart kids' fault!"

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

10 Nov 2006 at 13:32 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

i wont vote to exclude them from HA as they encourage more players to experience HA PvP as quoted from Gaile Chat.

Hahahhaha. Dude, do the math. What Gaile said was totally absurd and counterintuitive. She said that Heroes allow *more* people to play HA, right? But the reality is, for every Heroway match now, there's only one person usually on each team. So there *aren't* more people playing. In fact, there's *less* people playing. Don't buy into what she's said, man.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

10 Nov 2006 at 15:01 - 164

/not signed

well like we Pver's are told, dont like it move on. things are changing time to adapt or go extinct. seems like it makes it easier to get r12 with heroways in there so i dont know why u guys are complaining.

oh and no i dont PvP i cant drink enough to put up with most of the idiots there.

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

10 Nov 2006 at 15:07 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

/not signed

well like we Pver's are told, dont like it move on. things are changing time to adapt or go extinct. seems like it makes it easier to get r12 with heroways in there so i dont know why u guys are complaining.

oh and no i dont PvP i cant drink enough to put up with most of the idiots there.

and i can't drink enough to put up with the idiots that have no idea what they are talking about.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

10 Nov 2006 at 15:19 - 166

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

and i can't drink enough to put up with the idiots that have no idea what they are talking about.

trust me i know what im talking about. but since you seem to have a problem with people posting against this idea, well u can go ahead flash your little wannabe rank-mote all you want.

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

10 Nov 2006 at 15:32 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

trust me i know what im talking about. but since you seem to have a problem with people posting against this idea, well u can go ahead flash your little wannabe rank-mote all you want.

Let me tell you why I think you don't know what you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

things are changing time to adapt or go extinct

None of us are saying beating heroway is hard. On the contrary, it is boring and easy. Adapt to what? rolling heroways. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

seems like it makes it easier to get r12 with heroways in there so i dont know why u guys are complaining

Noone posting against hero-way cares about rank 12. What we do care about is getting the fun factor back in HA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

oh and no i dont PvP

Well then you don't know the "fun" factor that comes from playing against other people, therefore you only have one side of the story.

About my "wannabe rank-mote", i havent flashed that in about 2 months, and I think ranking makes me look like a noob.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

10 Nov 2006 at 15:42 - 168

so fighting AI and gaining fame from AI is worse than IWAYers farming fame off real players? is that the real reason why you are all oppposed to this?

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

10 Nov 2006 at 15:45 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Let me tell you why I think you don't know what you are talking about.

None of us are saying beating heroway is hard. On the contrary, it is boring and easy. Adapt to what? rolling heroways. lol

Noone posting against hero-way cares about rank 12. What we do care about is getting the fun factor back in HA.

Well then you don't know the "fun" factor that comes from playing against other people, therefore you only have one side of the story.

About my "wannabe rank-mote", i havent flashed that in about 2 months, and I think ranking makes me look like a noob.

whether they are real or ai the true fun hasnt changed. granted it easier yes but if you really are in it for the fun then it shouldnt matter if its a real person or ai, and thats why i know what im talking about.

the fun factor comes from just playing. we have things that have taken our so called fun outa PvE. yes lots are complaining about it. but when someone disagrees doesnt mean that they arent allowed there opinions and mine wont change.

glad to know finally a PvPer realizes rank-moting is for noobs. and thats joking around.

and still all heros do for HA is adds a new element to HA. i know changes are scary at first, but im quite confident all of you will see its actually for the best. hell we have to put up with griefer AI now in PvE. least you guys can do is put up with new players using heros.

Carl Butanananowski

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

Arizona

We Have Big [Meat]

10 Nov 2006 at 15:48 - 170

I totally agree with everything the OP mentioned.

/signed?

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

10 Nov 2006 at 15:59 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

the fun factor comes from just playing. we have things that have taken our so called fun outa PvE. yes lots are complaining about it. but when someone disagrees doesnt mean that they arent allowed there opinions and mine wont change.

glad to know finally a PvPer realizes rank-moting is for noobs. and thats joking around.

Well you see man, that is the problem...
People have different opinions about what the "fun factor" is. For many people including myself, the fun factor is coming up against decent real teams and having good close games, be it against IWAY, spike, or hero-way (though it is extremely unlikely).
What I don't like is that the thing we liked about HA was changed to a point where it can barely be called PvP anymore to accomodate (sp?) newer players, which are less than the older players. That's all.

Another thing, I personally wouldnt go post /unsigned on all the threads to bring back the old AI in PvE, simply because I know many people enjoyed farming.

samcobra

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

USA

Mo/Me

10 Nov 2006 at 17:24 - 172

for me, the fun factor of HA was that you would come up against real people, see them using unique and interesting builds and then come up with your own unique and interesting builds and play against those people. The problem with heroway in the current meta is that it is only well adapted for one thing and thats fireway. Albeit other heroway teams do exist and do well, the sf ele is the most common hero in halls. That being said, I do like heroway because it allows even unranked players to get into ha without having to look for a group. All that matters is your own skill when running heroway.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

10 Nov 2006 at 17:38 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

whether they are real or ai the true fun hasnt changed. granted it easier yes but if you really are in it for the fun then it shouldnt matter if its a real person or ai, and thats why i know what im talking about.

Don't be a troll.

M3lk0r

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

R/Mo

10 Nov 2006 at 20:24 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

whether they are real or ai the true fun hasnt changed. granted it easier yes but if you really are in it for the fun then it shouldnt matter if its a real person or ai, and thats why i know what im talking about. the fun factor comes from just playing.

Why do you think that people make multilayer games at all then? Why are there hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize money in fps & rts tournaments, or millions of people playing on public servers, if we could all play just play with bots with auto-aim? Perfecting your recoil control, micro, build, strats, etc. is one thing, actually playing a real opponent is quite a different matter.

I used to play PvE too (with guild usually) so I can see the fun in that, but you really have to experience organised PvP to know the fun in that. Its called "E-Sports" for a reason.

I can also respect your opinion if you decide NOT to like organised PvP, but then why force PvE onto the people who DO like PvP?
What if this situation was reversed and you have HA guild/teams popping up in PvE areas, or having to fight a top rated "real" team to advance in the storyline? I bet a lot of people who not be very impressed by that either.

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

10 Nov 2006 at 21:14 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3lk0r

I can also respect your opinion if you decide NOT to like organised PvP, but then why force PvE onto the people who DO like PvP?
What if this situation was reversed and you have HA guild/teams popping up in PvE areas, or having to fight a top rated "real" team to advance in the storyline? I bet a lot of people who not be very impressed by that either.

IMHO they should try giving us balthazar faction instead of loot in PvE. Then Gaile could post a poll in the GvG or HA section of this forum. Would be interesting...

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

10 Nov 2006 at 22:04 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

Don't be a troll.

F.Y.I i'm not trolling i stated my opinion and replied to a reply. this isnt an aggre or else thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Well you see man, that is the problem...
People have different opinions about what the "fun factor" is. For many people including myself, the fun factor is coming up against decent real teams and having good close games, be it against IWAY, spike, or hero-way (though it is extremely unlikely).
What I don't like is that the thing we liked about HA was changed to a point where it can barely be called PvP anymore to accomodate (sp?) newer players, which are less than the older players. That's all.

i agree on how everyone has the different opinions on fun factors. and as far as things go for changing to accomodate the new players nothing wrong with that. sorry if you dont like that. theres lots of things i dont like either thats changed, i think Anet disagrees with us about the older players out numbering the newer players. otherwise we wouldnt have had these changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Another thing, I personally wouldnt go post /unsigned on all the threads to bring back the old AI in PvE, simply because I know many people enjoyed farming.

and that means what all i do is post in PvP threads. i dont think so. i believe this is the first one of PvP ive posted in, but if you would like to post in any PvE threads you are more than welcome too. and again im sorry if you dont like me disaggreeing with this thread but that is my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3lkor

Why do you think that people make multilayer games at all then? Why are there hundreds of thousands of dollars of prize money in fps & rts tournaments, or millions of people playing on public servers, if we could all play just play with bots with auto-aim? Perfecting your recoil control, micro, build, strats, etc. is one thing, actually playing a real opponent is quite a different matter.

I used to play PvE too (with guild usually) so I can see the fun in that, but you really have to experience organised PvP to know the fun in that. Its called "E-Sports" for a reason.

I can also respect your opinion if you decide NOT to like organised PvP, but then why force PvE onto the people who DO like PvP?
What if this situation was reversed and you have HA guild/teams popping up in PvE areas, or having to fight a top rated "real" team to advance in the storyline? I bet a lot of people who not be very impressed by that either.

i am not forcing anything on you, its Anets doing. you can do whatever you would like to do keep playing or take your money else where. that choice is completely yours. and F.Y.I we are having PvP forced on us PvEr's to a degree. been that way along time. sorry to tell you that.

but this thread isnt a PvP vs PvE thread, plzz stay on topic. if you guys would like to discuss it open a discussion thread. even though i doubt the mods would let it last long.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

11 Nov 2006 at 06:27 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

F.Y.I i'm not trolling i stated my opinion and replied to a reply. this isnt an aggre or else thread.

When there's no reasonable point in what you're saying, when what you're saying is absolutely absurd to anyone with any rational thought in their head, and when what you're trying to say has already been previously countered numerous times...you don't have much room to suggest you're positively contributing to the discussion. Hence, trolling.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

11 Nov 2006 at 06:42 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren

When there's no reasonable point in what you're saying, when what you're saying is absolutely absurd to anyone with any rational thought in their head, and when what you're trying to say has already been previously countered numerous times...you don't have much room to suggest you're positively contributing to the discussion. Hence, trolling.

and yet by your own definition you are doing the same thing. and there was a reasonable point in what i said. and exactly how is it being fair to new players coming into the game being countered.

Siren

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

11 Nov 2006 at 07:23 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

and yet by your own definition you are doing the same thing.

Not particularly. None of what I'm saying is totally absurd. None of what I'm saying is ignoring the very fundamentals of the topic at hand. I'm not just randomly chiming in with complete and utter nonsense, because everything I'm saying here has a very specific and relevant point within it.

Quote:

and there was a reasonable point in what i said. and exactly how is it being fair to new players coming into the game being countered.

You did not demonstrate any understanding of why PvPers found HA fun. You did not even begin to recognize the significant differences between fighting humans and fighting AI. You do not recognize the counterproductive nature of including heroes for the "newbies." You do not grasp the idea that including heroes is being more unfair to newbies than anything in the past. There was no reasonable point in what you said, simple as that.

sykoone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mystical Chaos

E/

11 Nov 2006 at 07:44 - 180

I'm not a PvP player, and doubt I ever will be, but I completely agree with the fact that heroes should not be allowed in PvP arenas. It defeats the purpose of PvP entirely. Allowing 1, two at most, in a team might be acceptable over the standard henchmen that were always allowed, but forming an entire team of AI is pointless. PvE should stay in PvE, and PvP should stay in PvP.

/sign

God Apprentice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/N

11 Nov 2006 at 08:46 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

How is this different from IWAY, or VIMWAY, or other WAYs?

Beating a dead horse there, aren't you.

I agree with Yuna. If you notice some teams can hold for hours now, and from what I have faced in HoH 99% of it was Hero teams. Hero teams really need to be reduced because there really is no real competition there anymore. Another thing, even if you did get rank from using Heros you haven't learned how to play as a real team, most you've learned is the maps.

/signed

Satans Dominatrix

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Not sure...?

Super Atomic Dragons From Space [cool]

R/

15 Nov 2006 at 18:41 - 182

/signed

HA has become a joke. The fun is gone. I played HA as often as i could, now I could care less about it. I say we "bring back the rifts" and call it a day.

Y O U Lo Se

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Wee Free Men[凸〇一〇]

Mo/Me

15 Nov 2006 at 18:47 - 183

/signed

Not gonna write my arguments down again, just read pvp forums etc.

phasola

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

EaT

Mo/

15 Nov 2006 at 19:34 - 184

/signed
Oh yeah, change it back to 8 v 8.
And to people that whine about rank elitistm (PvE crowd of course), as many other people have already stated, what's wrong about it ? We were all unranked, r2, r5, etc. Do you want me to take you into my group when you don't even know the maps ? We all know when that's gonna happen....
I still remember losing constantly to ghosts in renewal days

.

phasola

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

EaT

Mo/

15 Nov 2006 at 19:35 - 185

double post.

Northrog

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Me/

15 Nov 2006 at 19:45 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimi Akatsuki

/signed

Make it PvP again not PvPw/HEROES

/signed

zwitterion

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Iowa. Or South Australia. Depending.

Mo/

15 Nov 2006 at 21:32 - 187

I'ma /sign because i agree with the principles but there's a lot of stuff in the OP that's kinda galling.

I'm pretty new to HA, I have 9 fame and it took me a goddamn while to get there just monking for random pugs, and no most of the groups i'm in CAN'T beat a team of heros - so I hate that "if you can't beat heros / can't get a group you shouldn't be in HA" line, it's so moronic. Of course you should be in HA. As much as possible. To get better.

At the end of the day though I would even rather party with a bunch of PvErs packing mending and firestorm, and get my ass handed to me by a bunch of socially maladjusted 13 yr olds than play with or against heros. Cos it's called a multiplayer game for a reason and that's what I want when i log on.

fearian

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

UK

PxR

R/

15 Nov 2006 at 22:06 - 188

Players > Heros

/signed ...but you still need a solution to elitist or crappy PUGs

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

16 Nov 2006 at 00:06 - 189

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

DIH49

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

16 Nov 2006 at 03:14 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hand Of Death

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

ll Templar ll

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Toronto, Canada

Fish Sphere [pH], Unknown Phenomenon [vK], Arizona Iced Tea [vR]

Rt/A

16 Nov 2006 at 06:11 - 191

/Signed

I agree with yuna i play with on rare occasions . In my experience in Ha, 1/3 teams in the 1st three maps are hero-way, though the name implies Heros Acent

, its just not hte "feel" of pvp and please don't quote on me, but low ranked palyer , or those starting out should keep the heros to a limit of 4 then it decreases as you gain rank. Anyways that is my opinion

Signed Tempie

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

16 Nov 2006 at 08:40 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

This post is probably the best I've ever read on guru. Mind if I quote you everytime someone cries about rank elitism?

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

16 Nov 2006 at 08:56 - 193

/signed. I'm also pretty sure that most Spearmen are opposed to the Hero abuse in tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hand Of Death

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

Elitism isn't an issue, lazy players unwilling to put forth an effort is. PvP is a social thing, it requires time and effort building up a circle of friends, or searching for a successful guild. If you can't put forth the effort to find other unranked players, start your own groups, or find a tombs guild, it's really nobody's fault but your own.

I think a lot of the problem comes from pvers comeing into HA, and expecting to find a group in 5 minutes, or expecting any player they blindly invite to accept them. This seems like a hold-over form their time spent pveing, which is fine in itself. However, new players need to realize that pvp requires a tremendous amount of dedication and effort to be successful at. This all comes down to the fact that if you're unwilling to put forth that effort, you're probably not ready for pvp in the first place.

Furthermore, I know for a fact that the "I can't find a group" bit is bullshit, because I see unranked groups forming every single day. So why is it that unranked players can't get into those groups? Is it because they think they belong in rank 9+ groups? That's like expecting a top 20 GvG guild to accept someone who has never pvped before.

There is also the issue of rank being equal to tombs experience (or time spent in tombs, whichever you prefer), and the obvious gap between rank 0 and r9ish. The times I've attempted to take unranked players they more often then not lack the required skills to fill the slot, or have horrible builds and are unreceptive to advice given to them. Furthermore, when I sign on I want to play - and win - not hold someone's hand through learning the ins and out of pvp in tombs. I'm sorry if you find that selfish or elitist, but I play this game for fun, not to teach every unranked player in the game how to play.

phasola

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

EaT

Mo/

16 Nov 2006 at 09:39 - 194

Quote:

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

Why did iA die ?

On the elitism issue, the only people complaining are r2 people that want to go into r10 groups. We've all been there, get over it.

Cass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

16 Nov 2006 at 13:58 - 195

/signed

Played some HA yesterday, if just to get some faction, and it was another disgusting charade of fighting one bot-team after the other.

Not to mention how teamplay is more rock-paper-scissors than ever with just 6 people in a team, or how the altar & "improved" scarred earth maps lead to random ganking all the time. Bleh.

The Bloodrose

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

CA

Dark Order of Innoruuk [DOI]

R/Rt

16 Nov 2006 at 14:33 - 196

/notsigned

I think it's funny that a large % of the people that tell the PvE-ers to adapt, to quit bitching about the pre-NF nerf are PvPers. So I got a few words of advice to all those that bitch to us. Adapt, quit bitching, get some skill. Gaile has said multiple times 6v6 is here to stay, and guess what. If they haven't dealth with the heros in HA by now, they probably wont. Most of the people bitching aren't a high rank either, because higher ranks would be able to counter heroway, just as they did Iway, vimway, etc.

But it would also be interesting to see what problem Anet addresses first. PvP or PvE.

B Ephekt

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Team Crystalline [TC]

Mo/

16 Nov 2006 at 14:45 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloodrose

/notsigned

I think it's funny that a large % of the people that tell the PvE-ers to adapt, to quit bitching about the pre-NF nerf are PvPers. So I got a few words of advice to all those that bitch to us. Adapt, quit bitching, get some skill. Gaile has said multiple times 6v6 is here to stay, and guess what. If they haven't dealth with the heros in HA by now, they probably wont. Most of the people bitching aren't a high rank either, because higher ranks would be able to counter heroway, just as they did Iway, vimway, etc.

But it would also be interesting to see what problem Anet addresses first. PvP or PvE.

That's cute that you really have no point except some misplaced anger towards "those pvpers" in general. Grow up, please.

Also, had you actually bothered reading the thread, you'd see that we're not complaining about heros being "uncounterable;" in fact, they're not very hard for any organized group to beat at all. This entire issue is about people exploiting heros to turn pvp (player versus player) into 1 guy and 5 NPCs, which is a total joke.

And aside from the fact that I know for certain a good bit of the people in this thread are rank 9, 10 and 11+, what the hell does rank have to do with anything? This is an issue that effects anyone who enjoys the HA arena...

The Bloodrose

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

CA

Dark Order of Innoruuk [DOI]

R/Rt

16 Nov 2006 at 14:57 - 198

Thats my opinion. And you are welcome to disagree.

Oh and I've gotten a few groups together to do HA lately, won and lost a few times. Had fun regardless. IMO I just think people are pissy about losing to AI. *giggle*

Snirp

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

Group Therapy

W/E

16 Nov 2006 at 15:12 - 199

/Signed

Well beating up bots that dont even last 2 minutes is getting quite boring, like, it looks like i'm farming my way into hall of heroes...

hyro yamaguchi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Netherlands

Mo/Me

16 Nov 2006 at 15:16 - 200

I was thinking about the rank stuf: it's like a single percent getting to HoH, so of each 100 teams that join, 99 don't get to make it to halls, of that 1% only 33% can hold.

Anyway, hall holds isn't a good measure for for skill: you could have played the previous maps a 1000 times w/o holding halls once.

But fame isn't a good skill measure either, farming the first 2 maps over and over again doesn't make you skilled.

Now if SF would be nerfed, and hero size limited, how far would you think a
n00b team will get? UW, scarred earth? What we need to do is determine that. And make it so that those maps don't give fame anymore, to prevent grinding.

Furthermore: Iway, SF etc. have caused huge rank inflation...right? And new players can't get accepted into HA right? And good players can get fame easily with their friend list and guild right? So...why not reset all fame? If we do everything we say, rank farmers will quit, skilled players will continue, because they probably don't care about fame anyway, new players will get a chanche and after a few weeks or months HA will be stable again, with
skilledplayers being ranked, and unranked PUG's forming again, because any Iwayed/ebayed/SF'd fame will no longer be around.

The guild ladder is reset after each season right? I assume that is to stop certain guilds to gain a headstart at new guilds, while they aren't the most skilled guild. Now why not reset the fame to make certain players get a headstart w/o having to be the most skilled?