Dear Anet: Make Razah's PvE aquisition REASONABLE.........
Tarun
Without a challenge, there is no fun. Is it any fun to just be given something out of the blue where you did no work for it? Of course not.
Obey The Cat
But it should be possible to obtain razah with npc/heroes only. Imho. 
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Tarun
Without a challenge, there is no fun. Is it any fun to just be given something out of the blue where you did no work for it? Of course not.
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Rollebeetle races.
A challenge? No.
Fun? Lots.
Dragon Arena.
Hard to enter? Nothing easier.
Fun? Most people will shout: Yes!
Any event. Are they challenges? No, they are not, they never are, some evnt quests ccan be made ith lvl 10 character.
Fun? Hell, yes, all of them where.
The only thing you want it to enter missions showing your Razah.
Well. If you want to amaze people, buy a one Dragon.
Everyone have the right to have all heroes, unless the 'hard one' has something special, and he has not. He's just a Ritualist, THE ritualist.
Everyone who bough Nightfall and Factions should have one.
Tarun
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Fun an be perfectly without challenge.
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Challenge? Yes, getting first place.
Fun? Depends on if you like it.
Dragon Arena:
Challenge? Yes.
Fun? Depends on if you like it.
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Any event. Are they challenges? No, they are not, they never are
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Make sense now?
mqstout
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Originally Posted by Tarun
You're overlooking the challenge level of these games. Obviously the challenge level is low. There is still the challenge as I mentioned above for the examples you provided.
Make sense now? |
L|S >+>+G+<+<
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Originally Posted by Ferret
I think it's more about the TIME to get him. If the DoA missions could be done one at a time and remain marked off once you completed each area, then it would be okay. It's the fact that you HAVE to do them all in one go and if you are not part of some super group (or pro-DoA party) its going to (a) take you ages to get a party (especially for some classes) and (b) take you hours to complete.
A lot of people, especially those of us in full time employment and/or married, just cant commit five straight hours to the game (which seems to be how long it can take for a less experienced group). Quite often we only have a few hours in one go that we can commit to the game and that is the main problem. All it would need is a slight adjustment to either the seperate parts of the DoA main quest remaining as completed after you done each or for the gem requirement to get Razah to be replaced by something else that can be more easily obtained (like 250 margonite masks as i used in my earlier example), everything else can remain as it is. |
Unless I misread what you say, the doa missions do get marked off one by one, there is no need to do the whole lot in one go.
mqstout
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Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<
Unless I misread what you say, the doa missions do get marked off one by one, there is no need to do the whole lot in one go.
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Detraya fullvear
/notsigned.
if i worked my butt off for a hero i dont even use, you can to :P, the requirements arent that hard, just time consuming. if your not willing to put up the time, you shouldn't reap the rewards..
if i worked my butt off for a hero i dont even use, you can to :P, the requirements arent that hard, just time consuming. if your not willing to put up the time, you shouldn't reap the rewards..
Well99
As it has been brought up ..the game is suppose to be about fun.It would of been fun to take a rit hero thru NF at the start.The challege is working thru the bugs in the game.Sorry just ran into another but it is common since it is on guildwiki..)
Back on post:I dont understand why Olias and Sin were changed as far as getting them.Yet they didnt bring in a rit?I have a hard time understanding that.Shoot they dropped PVP cost from 50k to 6 k way back when.Why is the need to make PVE RIT so precious.
Back on post:I dont understand why Olias and Sin were changed as far as getting them.Yet they didnt bring in a rit?I have a hard time understanding that.Shoot they dropped PVP cost from 50k to 6 k way back when.Why is the need to make PVE RIT so precious.
EternalTempest
/signed
I'd even go for a "plain" looking rit that can be recruited easier and leave Razah where he's at.
I'd even go for a "plain" looking rit that can be recruited easier and leave Razah where he's at.
Detraya fullvear
the 50k pvp cost was to avoid him being bought till he was available in pve, it was dropped because most people's faction caps out at 15-20k, and very, veyr, very, very very few people can affoard the 50k.
Well99
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Originally Posted by Detraya fullvear
the 50k pvp cost was to avoid him being bought till he was available in pve, it was dropped because most people's faction caps out at 15-20k, and very, veyr, very, very very few people can affoard the 50k.
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cyberjanet
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Originally Posted by Detraya fullvear
/notsigned.
if i worked my butt off for a hero i dont even use, you can to :P, the requirements arent that hard, just time consuming. if your not willing to put up the time, you shouldn't reap the rewards.. |
Or haven't you made it to the job market yet?
The fact of the matter is that most normal people are VERY UNWELCOME in DoA, no matter how many hours of Game Play they have behind them. It's not just elitist, it's cliquish. And as lots of people have pointed out, umpteen 4-hour sessions is just not possible if you're living a normal life with work and social obligations. The only reason I want Razah is because he's a Rit. I like the idea of making him a variable profession as the manual describes him, and introducing a plain old Rit hero that's easier to get.
That way those who have suffered through the ignomies of DoA to get him can at least feel vindicated. And the rest of us can get our Rit.
MithranArkanere
The entire game has area changes while having certain quest in the Log.
This is the easiest solution, while having the mission to get razah in the log:
- Make the areas easier, by placing less creatures with normal defense.
- Make the drops like the rest of the torment, so you'll have to abandon the quest or come back once it's finished to get Anguish stuff.
- Make the first gems 'variables in the log' so when you use each chest while in the mission, a quest objective is fulfilled, but you don't get a gem in your inventory, to prevent people abandoning the quest and keeping 'easy to get' gems.
So getting Razah would be a bit tunned down, a part of the game, and getting the other things would stay as elite as elitists want.
This is the easiest solution, while having the mission to get razah in the log:
- Make the areas easier, by placing less creatures with normal defense.
- Make the drops like the rest of the torment, so you'll have to abandon the quest or come back once it's finished to get Anguish stuff.
- Make the first gems 'variables in the log' so when you use each chest while in the mission, a quest objective is fulfilled, but you don't get a gem in your inventory, to prevent people abandoning the quest and keeping 'easy to get' gems.
So getting Razah would be a bit tunned down, a part of the game, and getting the other things would stay as elite as elitists want.
legion_rat
/signed the rit is not that useful over all. You can set Master of secrets or one of the monks up as a pretty good rit healer if you want to, or channeling for that matter. its about having the hero. YOU CAN NOT PUG RAZAH, and none of my allies want to even try for it. Spiders arent hard to get its just time consuming (to the poster mentioning them) I can see the quest for razah being long and difficult but not as bad as it currently is. No hero is worth the price of the four gems.
~the rat~
~the rat~
Mercyful Fate
/not signed
I'm sorry, but it was said somewhere on page 1 that Razah was like the new UW spider. This is true to an extent. A number of people won't go through the hassle or cost to access him, and he's not required.
I personally got my gemstones and Hero/Henched the quest relatively problem free. Aside from showing Razah to a few guildies, his skill bar has never been changed and I don't use him at all.
Some things should be difficult to gain, if other players have done it then we know it can be accomplished. Patience is a virtue.
-MF
I'm sorry, but it was said somewhere on page 1 that Razah was like the new UW spider. This is true to an extent. A number of people won't go through the hassle or cost to access him, and he's not required.
I personally got my gemstones and Hero/Henched the quest relatively problem free. Aside from showing Razah to a few guildies, his skill bar has never been changed and I don't use him at all.
Some things should be difficult to gain, if other players have done it then we know it can be accomplished. Patience is a virtue.
-MF
Orinn
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Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate
/not signed
I'm sorry, but it was said somewhere on page 1 that Razah was like the new UW spider. This is true to an extent. A number of people won't go through the hassle or cost to access him, and he's not required. |
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Originally Posted by mercyful fate
I personally got my gemstones and Hero/Henched the quest relatively problem free. Aside from showing Razah to a few guildies, his skill bar has never been changed and I don't use him at all.
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Originally Posted by mercyful fate
Some things should be difficult to gain, if other players have done it then we know it can be accomplished. Patience is a virtue.
-MF |
RAZAH CANNOT BE REPLICATED. I wonder if all caps will get this point across. He offers an advantage to a player who has him, because Razah offers his owner that much more flexibility in building team builds. The difference between 0 and 1 ritualist on a team is a big difference. He is not simply a vanity item like a chaos axe or a shadow bow, he is something that cannot be obtained in any way (in PvE, which is what this thread was about originally) except for doing the elite area. It's a ridiculously difficult and time-consuming path. The people who have done it, great, but locking out a large percentage of the playerbase from ever obtaining Razah.
dronex
/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. Totaly worth the 100k for gems.
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. Totaly worth the 100k for gems.
The Last Windseeker
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Originally Posted by dronex
/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. totally worth the 100k for gems. |
JoeKnowMo
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Originally Posted by dronex
/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. Totaly worth the 100k for gems. |
So that's a measly 700k to add Razah to all 7 characters on a person's account?
/signed for easier acquisition
As so many others have said, this goes against the core philosophy of GW since it favors grind over skill.
Anyway, Gaile has said they're looking into this. So I expect a change in the next year or so :P
MithranArkanere
They should have created one Razah for each class, faking the 'variable' Razah, they would be unloked one by one in the Balthazar priests, and you could only choose one at a time in the Party per character.
So, if you want a Ritualist raza, you select R Razah, and you can't select another one.
And, in the other hand, Prophecies should have a Mesmer and Factions a Ritualist, that way there would be:
2 heroes for each core class.
1 hero for each campaign exclusive class.
1 Razah per class.
All the Razah versions would be onloked at the same time.
Another hero of each class, although not usable at the same time,
So, if you want a Ritualist raza, you select R Razah, and you can't select another one.
And, in the other hand, Prophecies should have a Mesmer and Factions a Ritualist, that way there would be:
2 heroes for each core class.
1 hero for each campaign exclusive class.
1 Razah per class.
All the Razah versions would be onloked at the same time.
Another hero of each class, although not usable at the same time,
Mercyful Fate
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Originally Posted by Orinn
So you got him and don't use him? Wonderful, but some people WILL use him. Just because you don't use him, doesn't make him useless. BTW, since when are henchies available in DoA? Are you saying that you and 3 heroes went through these quests with no other humans present? I'd love to see the amazing team build you worked out for that, because DoA is difficult for even experienced players in an all-human group.
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Secondly, before you start with a sassy attitude regarding my "amazing team build", why not get your facts straight and know where Razah is located. He's NOT in the Domain of Anguish, he's in the Heart of Abaddon. You go through the gate/zone (after paying gatekeeper the gems) in the final mission town, which DOES have Henchies, to go retrieve Razah. You do NOT begin your quest in the Gate of Anguish.
I believe I still have screenshots of the Hero/Hench team I used. The quest is NOT hard if you can be patient and have some determination. And if you can't get the gems, go make the money somewhere to buy them. The quest is not that hard. Getting the gems is harder, and you can side step that part and farm the gold to pay for them.
-MF
nekopowa
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Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate
Two things, Orinn. You're neglecting to state the first obvious thing: ArenaNet didn't release Razah with the rest of the Heroes, so obviously, everyone survived without him. He is not a necessity to beating the campaign. I'm sure it will please you to know that my Razah has the original build on him that he had when I beat the quest and got him. His attribute points are also untouched. However, I was kind enough to get him his Primeval Hero armor to show him off.
Secondly, before you start with a sassy attitude regarding my "amazing team build", why not get your facts straight and know where Razah is located. He's NOT in the Domain of Anguish, he's in the Heart of Abaddon. You go through the gate/zone (after paying gatekeeper the gems) in the final mission town, which DOES have Henchies, to go retrieve Razah. You do NOT begin your quest in the Gate of Anguish. I believe I still have screenshots of the Hero/Hench team I used. The quest is NOT hard if you can be patient and have some determination. And if you can't get the gems, go make the money somewhere to buy them. The quest is not that hard. Getting the gems is harder, and you can side step that part and farm the gold to pay for them. -MF |
Obey The Cat
But he also said, getting the gems is harder. You should not have to grind for gems to get razah. That's no 'whining'.
Why?
That line is so pathetic,"not wanting to work for anything."
DOA is not meant for everyone, but only an elite few. Anet has admitted as much.
DOA has great rewards for people, the weapons are the only golds you can get from a collector, and the skins rock.
Then Mallyx drops weapons, and the gems are valuable, etc, etc, etc.
There are many great rewards to DOA that make hiding the only ritualist hero behind DOA necessary items unecessary.
I do beleive adding another rit hero somewhere is the best idea. And I also believe that when the new chapter comes out it will have skills and such to make DOA easier, just like going back and doing prophecies now with skills from all 3 games is easier than doing it with prophecies only skills, so in time everyone will be able to acquire Razah.
DOA is not meant for everyone, but only an elite few. Anet has admitted as much.
DOA has great rewards for people, the weapons are the only golds you can get from a collector, and the skins rock.
Then Mallyx drops weapons, and the gems are valuable, etc, etc, etc.
There are many great rewards to DOA that make hiding the only ritualist hero behind DOA necessary items unecessary.
I do beleive adding another rit hero somewhere is the best idea. And I also believe that when the new chapter comes out it will have skills and such to make DOA easier, just like going back and doing prophecies now with skills from all 3 games is easier than doing it with prophecies only skills, so in time everyone will be able to acquire Razah.
Well99
"We are going to continue to monitor the Domain of Anguish. We want this to be the high-end are of the game, of course, and to retain its specialness and its challenge. It's an Elite area, obviously, and in truth we cannot say that it's intended even for the majority of players. But we certainly intend for it, while challenging, to also be a lot of fun! Please continue to share your thoughts and we'll be reading!"
__________________
Gaile Gray
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10089724
The link is up for the whole thread.
Hmm so Razah wasnt meant for the majority of the players?Too bad because all players should have the chance for him(Guess I should of been more clear).I have Razah and I like using him.It would of been more fun to have a rit from the start.
I could care less about bragging rights.Some folks enjoy playing the game.I am strickly PVE.If PVP or farming is your thing more power to you.Me I just like PVE.I have alot of builds so it would be nice to have a rit.I run different heroes all the time just to see how it works out.It would of been fun to mix a Rit with different combos of other heroes from the start of the game.
As far as some statements about you have to work for him.When you work you get paid.When I pay for a game I do it to have fun.Silly concept I know.
__________________
Gaile Gray
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10089724
The link is up for the whole thread.
Hmm so Razah wasnt meant for the majority of the players?Too bad because all players should have the chance for him(Guess I should of been more clear).I have Razah and I like using him.It would of been more fun to have a rit from the start.
I could care less about bragging rights.Some folks enjoy playing the game.I am strickly PVE.If PVP or farming is your thing more power to you.Me I just like PVE.I have alot of builds so it would be nice to have a rit.I run different heroes all the time just to see how it works out.It would of been fun to mix a Rit with different combos of other heroes from the start of the game.
As far as some statements about you have to work for him.When you work you get paid.When I pay for a game I do it to have fun.Silly concept I know.
MirageMaster
Damn i hate l33t lamers all over this place.Screw you. i want my rit hero.
The Bloodrose
I seriously don't see what the big fuss is. Razah is easy as hell to get. The only thing bad about getting him is the cost(Currently 85-90k). I took myself, 3 heros and 4 henchies in there and got him in 45 min. flat. Next time I went with a guildie, same thing. 45min, no deaths.
As long as one person pays the gems, you can take a full pug/guild group to get him. Only the people who pay the gems can get him though. He is no required, so don't bitch. PvPers may unlock him, but seriously...do you see any groups running with him?
This is just another thing for people to bitch about. It all comes down to this. If you want him bad enough, you'll pay the gems, and go get him and stfu. Simple as that.
As long as one person pays the gems, you can take a full pug/guild group to get him. Only the people who pay the gems can get him though. He is no required, so don't bitch. PvPers may unlock him, but seriously...do you see any groups running with him?
This is just another thing for people to bitch about. It all comes down to this. If you want him bad enough, you'll pay the gems, and go get him and stfu. Simple as that.
Well99
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Originally Posted by The Bloodrose
I seriously don't see what the big fuss is. Razah is easy as hell to get. The only thing bad about getting him is the cost(Currently 85-90k). I took myself, 3 heros and 4 henchies in there and got him in 45 min. flat. Next time I went with a guildie, same thing. 45min, no deaths.
As long as one person pays the gems, you can take a full pug/guild group to get him. Only the people who pay the gems can get him though. He is no required, so don't bitch. PvPers may unlock him, but seriously...do you see any groups running with him? This is just another thing for people to bitch about. It all comes down to this. If you want him bad enough, you'll pay the gems, and go get him and stfu. Simple as that. |
They have changed how you get Olias and the sin so why not for Razah or put a new rit for everyone to get just like the other heroes.
Yanman.be
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Ok then, why is it ok for them to give people the Assassin Hero but NOT a Rt hero, then they finally put one in only to have it in an area where heroes will doom you.
No, if they add a variable primary profession hero, full power to them putting it in there, but NOT a hero with a primary profession that isn't accessable elsewhere. |
Cataclysm
I dont mind that hes so hard to get. I just mind that hes tho ONLY rit hero. Make us another rit hero and keep Rajah as a prestige hero...
Killaya
/sign
I'd like to have a ritualist hero. Having a ritual lord on command would be helpful. But I can NOT find a group that can make it and I am not going to pay 100k for a ritualist. Why do we need another hero anyway if we can only get to DoA after we've beaten nightfall??
I agree with those who said he should be unlockable in factions like the sin was.
The conversion from pvp to pve is a measly 6k faction to an incredible 100k gold. Not exactly even.
I'd like to have a ritualist hero. Having a ritual lord on command would be helpful. But I can NOT find a group that can make it and I am not going to pay 100k for a ritualist. Why do we need another hero anyway if we can only get to DoA after we've beaten nightfall??
I agree with those who said he should be unlockable in factions like the sin was.
The conversion from pvp to pve is a measly 6k faction to an incredible 100k gold. Not exactly even.
MrTumnus
/signed.
I don't like having 2 warriors, a dervish, 2 monks, a mesmer, a paragon, 2 elementalists, 2 rangers, 2 necromancers, and a sin, but no ritualist. I'd gladly trade Goren for a ritualist hero. It doesn't have to be Razah.
Make Razah variable primary for those "leet" players who play the game for hours on end and regularly have funds well above 100k + e to spend. And put another Rit Primary in the regular story. Make it someone like Togo's last student, or a djinn...
I don't like having 2 warriors, a dervish, 2 monks, a mesmer, a paragon, 2 elementalists, 2 rangers, 2 necromancers, and a sin, but no ritualist. I'd gladly trade Goren for a ritualist hero. It doesn't have to be Razah.
Make Razah variable primary for those "leet" players who play the game for hours on end and regularly have funds well above 100k + e to spend. And put another Rit Primary in the regular story. Make it someone like Togo's last student, or a djinn...
Anna Ryan
Well... A gemset nowadays costs between 70-75k and prices still drop.
That being said, I do say that having to pay this for my 10 next chars is madness.
So I'll sign for having to pay only once for gems.
And really guys, WTH do you do with the money you earn ? A normal new char in Elona earns 60 to 80k, having reduced the costs of buying armor and weapons. It's just picking up every item and selling though
Anyways, saving ain't that hard now is it ? 1k at a time, you want Razah you go for it. You want to buy a game IRL you save for it, you're not going to complain to the game maker in saying 'I want to play the game, make it cheaper' no, you save or you just wait untill it's 2 months old and gets lower in price.
Which is exactly what is happening now in GW if you pay attention Titan gem went from 100k + xx ecto's to now today 49k for 1. By the time A-net has a solution, the gems are as cheap as an ecto
That being said, I do say that having to pay this for my 10 next chars is madness.
So I'll sign for having to pay only once for gems.
And really guys, WTH do you do with the money you earn ? A normal new char in Elona earns 60 to 80k, having reduced the costs of buying armor and weapons. It's just picking up every item and selling though
Anyways, saving ain't that hard now is it ? 1k at a time, you want Razah you go for it. You want to buy a game IRL you save for it, you're not going to complain to the game maker in saying 'I want to play the game, make it cheaper' no, you save or you just wait untill it's 2 months old and gets lower in price.
Which is exactly what is happening now in GW if you pay attention
Titan gem went from 100k + xx ecto's to now today 49k for 1. By the time A-net has a solution, the gems are as cheap as an ecto
Tarun
If they make one change to this, I'd like to take hench with me for the quest for the gems.
Edit: Or better yet, all my heroes.
Edit: Or better yet, all my heroes.
mqstout
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Originally Posted by Anna Ryan
So I'll sign for having to pay only once for gems.
And really guys, WTH do you do with the money you earn ? A normal new char in Elona earns 60 to 80k, having reduced the costs of buying armor and weapons. It's just picking up every item and selling though |
Undivine
I only have 1 character who has even the slightest hope of getting Razah, and that's my monk. My other characters: Ranger, Mesmer, and Ritualist. Those 3 characters will never, ever get a group in DoA. Everyone wants Monk, Monk, Monk, Ele, Ele, Ele, Warrior, Necro.
And it is very unlikely my monk will ever play DoA either. It's 6 straight hours that I don't have in any one day, unless I lose sleep and go to work tired. Not only that, it's 6 hours of repetitive boredom. Let's face it, DoA is not fun. It's freaken boring! They may as well have never added Razah to the game at all.
And it is very unlikely my monk will ever play DoA either. It's 6 straight hours that I don't have in any one day, unless I lose sleep and go to work tired. Not only that, it's 6 hours of repetitive boredom. Let's face it, DoA is not fun. It's freaken boring! They may as well have never added Razah to the game at all.
Kai Nui
When I took a break for about 3 months this thread had already been a couple months old I believe. We're still discussing this? I think it's time to pack it up and say good bye to any reasonable Razah aquisition.
Well99
If you want to go ahead.I hope Anet gets the message that this isnt some spur of the moment whim.People are still interesting in haveing a rit to use thru the game.
Master Sword Keeper
Okay ANET doesnt test their areas....Nor do they test PvE...They are PvP'ers. They are far too busy to test the PvE DOA area. They just build it...so as far as they know there's nothing wrong with it.