Dear Anet: Make Razah's PvE aquisition REASONABLE......... - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

raven214

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

R/

15 Jan 2007 at 21:19 - 281

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Part of the problem is once he is attained, there is no point in using him unless you are farming with him or hero battles with your PVE character. He is a trophy right now, and some people would like an actual ritualist hero to play the game through with.
Not everyone has to like ritualists, but it's important to realize that some people like em!

If Razah was the variable profession the manual eluded to, then I'd have no qualms about going through the game and elite zones to get him. Then he'd be worth it.

QFT!

I'm tempted to try to get Razah with my main char, just so I can say I've got them all, but by the time I get through DoA, there really would be next to nothing left to do. I could imagine doing this with one char just to say I did it, but certainly not with every char... especially when I can't get him until I play through the whole game.

mariano

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

16 Jan 2007 at 00:56 - 282

I do not have the time to get it... ingame, not the money to buy it in eBay. I think it is unfair that I have not the ritualist hero for free... as I have the three chapters and ArenaNet has not given any gift to me for this. Well, I do not ask for a gift... I ask, merely, for what, in my humble point of view, is due to anyone which has the three chapters.

I do not, really, need:
extra monk (heroes monks do not play 'bonder'), extra warrior, extra nigro, extra ranger, ... why not puting these as "extra". Why not two mesmers, two assassins, and two ritualists... which are the professions of 3 of my 4 characters!!!

I would like to have a ritualist much more earlier... and a mesmer. I was anxiuous not finding a mesmer in Nightfall -Vabbi is too late, but fun quests, may be the most funfull of all. But: Why having to choose between him and Goren?-. Then, also, I searched and did not find a ritualist anyplace... I though that ArenaNet had been unable to implement the ritualist's Artificial Inteligence, because the item spells... and now... What a displeasure! Now, I think that with including the ritualist hero in Nightfall ArenaNet pursues merely commercial purposes, pretending that it is given "even more" with Nightfall... Well, these are my mere speculations about the reason ArenaNet may have had for doing such annoying move.

Have a good time.

Metasynaptic

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

W/N

16 Jan 2007 at 02:48 - 283

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariano

I do not, really, need:
extra monk (heroes monks do not play 'bonder'), extra warrior, extra nigro, extra ranger, ... why not puting these as "extra". Why not two mesmers, two assassins, and two ritualists... which are the professions of 3 of my 4 characters!!!

Hero monks can bond just fine.

Disable life bond and target and cast it manually. Requires a little bit of micro-management, but a lot less than doing the bonding yourself.

And I assume you mean extra 'necro', unless you mean an extra koss. oO

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

28 Jan 2007 at 16:18 - 284

this thread should not get into oblivion....

/signed

I want my Razahs... now

Torikae

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

UK

Rt/

28 Jan 2007 at 16:39 - 285

I don't think Razah's acquisition should be any easier. I think he should remain a bragging/status hero - If I were one of those players l33t enough to have got Razah myself already, I'd be furious if they made it easy for everyone to get him.
No.
Instead, I think they ought to give as another ritualist hero - one that can be easily acquired (and it would make sense for him to be in Factions, though tbh it doesn't bother me personally).
Let Razah stay as he is, let the people who have managed to acquire him still feel special.
But let us have a rit hero too, please?
So...
/signed in part
Make a ritusalist hero whose PvE acquisition is reasonable.
But leave Razah as is, or some people will be within their rights to get very, very angry about wasting their time and money to get him already ^^'

MegaMouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

south mississippi

Warriors Of Melos WOM

E/N

28 Jan 2007 at 16:46 - 286

/SIGNED For beign able to get Razah easier. I have beaten NightFall with 2out of 14 characters and still dislike the DOA. I realy do not like going in there due to the main requirement of a "cookie-cutter" build. I like to be different but by beign different no-one wants you in their group.
Maybe have 2 ways to get Razah. The DOA way and maybe a multi continent quest for those of us who hate the DOA. Not just one long drawn out quest (i personaly had more than enough of those in Factions), but several quests seeking him, with each part giving clues to where he is. Something along those lines. I would actualy enjoy getting him then. As it is I won't even try for him.
Also grinding for what I am supposed to get is no fun at all. I realy dislike having to go into an area more than once just to get a title that I shouldn't need to continue the game with.

Mega Mouse

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

28 Jan 2007 at 16:47 - 287

@ Torikae: come one. some people spend 500k in time for a sword with 5 energy....

...sorry but those 2 of 10000 people with razah... hahaha no sorry.

and why should be a ritu a status hero? sense? ritu > all ? lol! no sorry again.

King Kong

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/R

28 Jan 2007 at 17:01 - 288

I think this will be one of them things, that ANET say they will fix but never will!

Like the factions elite missions, 2 months is soon turning into a year

Torikae

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

UK

Rt/

28 Jan 2007 at 17:01 - 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady79

@ Torikae: come one. some people spend 500k in time for a sword with 5 energy....

Only if they want a pretty one.
Which is precisely my point.

Some people spend time and money getting their hands on a crystalline sword (for example), for LOOKS, for STATUS, that is TECHNICALLY no better than a customised collector's weapon with the same mods.
Saying Razah's acquisition should be made easier is like saying crystalline swords should drop 10x more frequently. There'd be outrage amongst those who already paid a lot of money or worked very hard for their own.
(just an example - I don't even like the crystalline skin much myself :P)

If they implemented another, easy-to-acquire ritualist hero:
Some people would spend time and money getting their hands on Razah, for LOOKS, for STATUS, even though he is TECHNICALLY no better than an easier-to-acquire ritualist hero with the same skills.

And just because very few people have got their hands on Razah makes their achievement no less significant, and their opinions (I'm sure they'd hate for us to all be running around with Razah heroes after their hard work!) no less valid.

(Edit: can't spell

)

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

28 Jan 2007 at 17:13 - 290

no torikae. dunno since when you are playing gw but:

a sword with 5 energy was RARE and limited. the so called "hod sword" got removed from the weapon smiths. but you could get it by trading with players. it was not special cause of the skin... the skin was ugly as hell (non-nf-gladius).

some months later anet decided to remove its status by adding +5 energy weapons to factions (and at the beginning prophecies too).

those people who bought the hod sword lost ~400k.

Torikae

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

UK

Rt/

28 Jan 2007 at 17:21 - 291

Yes, but that was in the past and ANet should be learning from such mistakes, and not doing that to players again.
The idea in GW is BALANCE. Everyone has access to everything just by playing through the games - max armour, max weapons, etc.
The stuff that you have to pay more for is supposed to be status only - 15 / Obsidian armour, rare skinned weapons, etc.
So I agree, yes, that we should all have access to a Ritualist hero - I agree that Razah's difficult acquisition goes against this idea of balance.
BUT, just like the scenario you mentioned with the old hod sword, it would be unfair to make Razah's acquisition easier, so causing those who already have him to 'lose' gold and time in the same way.
Other Ritualist hero = generally accessible for purposes of balance.
Razah hero = status symbol, as he requires time, money and effort to acquire.

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

28 Jan 2007 at 17:24 - 292

mistake? that was no mistake. all items/heroes/... should be obtainable for all players. And I think that's anets intention too.

Cherrie

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Echowald

Marked by [Fury]

Me/

28 Jan 2007 at 17:29 - 293

I agree. Torikae, I don't recall an item in GW without a functional counterpart costing more than 50k (i included Vigor Rune

) - you want a sword with +5e? Amulet of the Mists is cheap like bread. Sure, there was a time when it was uber rare and OOAK, just like Rockmolder, but they are thankfully gone. So, so far there was no 'leetness' in GW apart from looks, you could have same functionality w/o the need to spend huge ammounts of time and effort to get them. Nightfall changed that ... unfortunatelly, Razah is one of the examples. Sure, you can play w/o him, but having him/not having him does make a difference, it's just like making some of armor option aviable only on FoW armor would be. And it shouldn't happen. Making his Primary variable would make the matter worse, imho (the difference between having him/not having him would be even greater). I think removing gems from his quest is a good idea - of course some ppl will 'loose' 4 gems this way, but hey, same happed with all those who bought 'hog swords' - things happen. When no gems are required, it's only the skill left.

Torikae

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

UK

Rt/

28 Jan 2007 at 17:29 - 294

Then why the Obsidian armour? Why the rare skinned weapons?
Everything (including Razah) IS accessible to all players, IF they invest a lot of time and effort into the game.
No, we can't all afford to do that, so they give us alternatives - collector's weapons, easy-to-farm-greens, 1.5k armour, etc.
The only thing that has no casual-play alternative at the moment is a Ritualist Hero, which is why I think one is needed.
The answer is not to make common or easier-to-achieve the rare items / armour / heroes that long-time, hardcore players can achieve, but to provide a cheaper alternative for casual gamers.
Enough argument, anyway. I've made my opinion on the matter clear enough by now

And Cherrie:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherrie

Torikae, I don't recall an item in GW without a functional counterpart costing more than 50k (i included Vigor Rune ) - you want a sword with +5e? Amulet of the Mists is cheap like bread.

That was my point also - I wholly agree. But providing an alternative > devaluing rare items IMHO

Edit: Ah! I see where confusion may have arisen - My fault! I did not mean that it was a 'mistake' to make +5e swords available to all - I meant that it was a mistake to do so in a way that left those who paid a lot of money for them with nothing to show for it.
THAT's why I think Razah should stay as is - so that those who work hard for him do have something to show for it, but that a ritualist hero with all the same functionality should be available to the rest of us.

Orinn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Defiant Dragons

28 Jan 2007 at 18:02 - 295

And still no word from ANet on this. Even a "we don't WANT casual players to get Razah." would be preferable to the silence from them on this.

As for the whole FoW armor debate, FoW armor has a non-elite counterpart. it's not BETTER than drok's armor, it just looks different. Crystalline swords are not inherently better than a sword you buy at any weaponsmith (or from a collector.) They just have a different skin, but they don't have modifiers or abilities that you can't get anywhere else. Razah has NO functional counterpart. You can't get a rit hero anywhere else. This is why he should be taken out of DoA to begin with. The elite areas have always offered things that look good, but never before has it been something that cannot be replicated without going into the elite areas.

Putting something that can't be obtained in any other way into an area that very few people can actually get through was a bad idea. I wish ANet had thought of this before it was implemented, and I wish they would just SAY SOMETHING about it now.

Juicey Shake

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

CA

in it for the trimmmm

R/

28 Jan 2007 at 19:42 - 296

/signed dumb req for getting him atm, trash as it is.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

28 Jan 2007 at 19:51 - 297

Razah is the biggest, most expensive peice of Minotaur crap in existence. The guy can't even manage spirits correctly... and he's a ritualist; the second least used class in the game (arguably the first).

The only thing Razah was good for was further breaking HA and the already screwed Hero Arenas.

chessyang

Not far from Elite

Join Date: Apr 2006

Florida

W/

28 Jan 2007 at 23:16 - 298

/signed (sort of)

sorry to sound bias or lame.. 15+ pages.. and another thread... http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10111637 .. ya i agree w/ the OP's and most people that agree. just want the dumb guy unlocked for me. I run a B/P hero team anyways for just about everything. Can careless about a RT class/hero (sorry never played one or will ever play/create one).

So ya i guess i'll get him after i do the DoA and set aside a weekend/time.

Tachyon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Stoke, England

The Godless [GOD]

W/

28 Jan 2007 at 23:23 - 299

Well I for one am not going to acquire Razah at all. It seems that ANet don't give a crap about us people who have other commitments like a family and work. Not all of us can sit playing games for hours on end all the time.

To put content into a game that people payed good money for and then rule out the possibility of them gaining said content is just wrong.

rong626

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Woot

P/W

29 Jan 2007 at 07:43 - 300

eww rits in pve are kinda useless

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jan 2007 at 09:40 - 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

Come on Anet, make it reasonable to get him, a way that won't require dependancy on others.

That is EXACTLY the point! I get all heroes easy and fast (and ALONE) and now I need make "impossible" teams with real people for farm super-expensive gems for "buy" a plain and simple Ritualist hero? Just ridiculous!

SirShadowrunner

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

at the beach

Gamerzunlimited (GU)

R/

29 Jan 2007 at 14:16 - 302

Completely forgot the hero Rit, and probably won't get him either, completed
the game without him and working on other toonz now.....kind of like Hero
armor, probably won't get any of that stuff either.....

To bad some parts of the game are just not "friendly" to all players, I have
been to DoA a couple of times, was incredibly slow and the drops were junk,
have not been back since, but maybe a special weekend there would
liven the place up some.....

/signed for I guess.....

Geckoo

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Spain

The Keeper Of The Seven Keys [KSK]

Me/

29 Jan 2007 at 14:48 - 303

/Signed

It shouldn't require gems. Consider it a prize for completing the game... but a bit harder than just talking with a guy like the other end-game heroes.

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

29 Jan 2007 at 15:47 - 304

talking is not all geckoo you even have to do a quest :P

mqstout

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Pittsburgh

29 Jan 2007 at 18:24 - 305

Some comments were made in another thread before it was closed and merged with this one. They're available at http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?p=2493410.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

29 Jan 2007 at 18:38 - 306

Quote:

posted by rong626
eww rits in pve are kinda useless

Sorry I normally ignore this kind of tripe talk but Rits are far from useless in PvE. Out of all 10 of my characters my Ritualist is by far my favorite because of the versatility of the class. She does not heal the best she does not nuke the best she does not control Minions the Best but she fills any weak point of any party build I can come up with. Her Spirits are always on hand and do not require bodies to produce. Her weapon spells are never dispelled, and she is graceful to look at during long quests. What else is needed for a good PvE game?

Sofonisba

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tucson, AZ

The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]

29 Jan 2007 at 21:16 - 307

The OP, ever so long ago, suggested that the acquisition of a ritualist hero ought to be reasonable. Operative word? Reasonable.

It astonishes me that some of you, who have the luxury of plenty of time to do the following:

a) experiment, fail, experiment, fail, experiment, succeed in creating a team build for the mission;
b) stand around waiting to make/join a group appropriate for said mission;
c) farm LB points to a “respectable” rank, therefore more likely to get in a group;
d) farm other things for the money to buy the gems…

…conclude that those of us who do not have this luxury, are lazy, stupid, 12 years old, whiney, and suck at the game.

And that those of us who wish to have reasonable acquisition of a ritualist hero also wish to have everything else “handed to us on a silver platter.”

*sigh*

Read this part, because it’s important: I don’t want gems, greens, torment weapons, FoW armor, fancy hero armor, or anything else handed to me. I don’t want anything handed to me. I want to work—err, play—for everything because that’s what a game is about. And I wish to play with a ritualist hero without committing half my life to it.

I'm not whining; at least, I don't think I am.

My life won't end if I don't get a rit hero, I realize that. I just happen to think it's a great idea and I will /sign for a ritualist hero available via other means than DoA. (Doesn’t have to be “Razah” per se.)

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

29 Jan 2007 at 21:20 - 308

they could just make Razah available to all characters on your account for 15k faction or more... Or for Balth flames, or through the online store, hell, i'd pay £2 or £3 if it meant all my characters had him available

Cataclysm2000

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/Mo

29 Jan 2007 at 21:23 - 309

/signed
At first, when he was a variable profession hero I would have said tough cookies, get over it. But since they made him a regular old ritualist and it seems excessive for a hero that has nothing special about him

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torikae

I don't think Razah's acquisition should be any easier. I think he should remain a bragging/status hero - If I were one of those players l33t enough to have got Razah myself already, I'd be furious if they made it easy for everyone to get him.
No.
Instead, I think they ought to give as another ritualist hero - one that can be easily acquired (and it would make sense for him to be in Factions, though tbh it doesn't bother me personally).
Let Razah stay as he is, let the people who have managed to acquire him still feel special.
But let us have a rit hero too, please?
So...
/signed in part
Make a ritusalist hero whose PvE acquisition is reasonable.
But leave Razah as is, or some people will be within their rights to get very, very angry about wasting their time and money to get him already ^^'

Or this. This I like more

stuntharley

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Critical Chop [cC]

W/

29 Jan 2007 at 21:26 - 310

/not signed

stupid idea, he is made hard to get so noobs cant have him =)

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

29 Jan 2007 at 23:32 - 311

hahahahaha ***** like you should get banned from anet.

Quote:

Yes Doa Quest are indeed doable, but are also very time consuming. for non hardcore player gettin into party and doin the quests takes well over 2hours if not 3.

You forgot to say that you need 3 hours for EVERY character. I would have no problem with razah now if you could use it on every char after you did the quests ONE time.

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Jan 2007 at 02:59 - 312

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

/not signed

stupid idea, he is made hard to get so noobs cant have him =)

You have Razah, no? so .... you are a pro? hahahaha!

Maybe we need a title that say I have Razah!, that way everybody know you are a pro? hahahaha

Now, seriously, it's true, if you have Razah in PvE, at least you have patience

Seef II

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

US

R/Mo

30 Jan 2007 at 09:29 - 313

Another quest in factions would be nice. How about Chiyo, after beating that campaign? Hmm, incentive...

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Jan 2007 at 14:06 - 314

I think they must change Razah, for that MULTI-profession in the manual; That way there are not problem if he is hard to get.

At the same time, add a normal Ritualist hero (a new one, not Razah) in a Factions new (easy) quest.

Note: A quest for get a Ritualist in Nightfall, make no sense for me at all BTW. People without Factions will have a Ritualist hero with a very limited skills list? Mmm, maybe they think, being Razah hard to get, people will buy Factions for make Razah useful? Wow, if they think that way, they are good in marketing.

zeldahwk

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Jan 2007 at 14:52 - 315

/signed

Like the majority of people have said, Razah is only a simple ritualist hero, so it has nothing to do with the elite mission of DOA, it does not make sense.

Zedd Kun

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Bretheren Of Chaos [Dark]

Rt/

30 Jan 2007 at 15:17 - 316

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

We'll I actually made an suggestion about heroes, and stated my opinion about this somewhere else, but...

#1 If you don't own factions Razah is useless.

*Factions should give the ritualist.

Now that wouldn't make sense. If you want Razah to be in Factions, people that don't have Factions will see him as useless anyway!

BTW, a variable hero would be WAAAY too overpowered.
Imagine how easy it would have been, and people here complain about game is beeing to easy, and PUG's are gone? Come on, you got to be kidding me.

/NOT SIGNED AT ALL!

Kid Divinity

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Zydian Coven

Rt/E

30 Jan 2007 at 15:41 - 317

"eww rits in pve are kinda useless "

Take 2 rits and camp the King in Thunderhead Keep.

You will change your tune.

Corinthian

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

30 Jan 2007 at 15:58 - 318

Nobody needs a rit hero. If it you really really really want it for whatever reason, you must work for it.

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

30 Jan 2007 at 16:13 - 319

so for the most useless hero you need to work hardest? hahaha! please think about before posting next time corinthian. ty.

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

30 Jan 2007 at 16:38 - 320

Do you realize if Anet make the aquisition of Razah as easy as Olias for example, people will complain there is no reward for completeing the quests in Torment? And if Anet introduces another rit hero, they will complain that the reward for slaying things in Torment is worthless since they already have a rit hero?