[Dev Update] Heroes' Ascent Changes Coming

All that says is that peoploe from [Bite] went into HA and spammed the party search thing. Also all those people should recieve warnings or temporary bans for spamming a very useful feature of the game.

I for one prefer 6v6 and have been trying to make my say to keep it. It is MORE balanced then 8v8 and prevents abuse of stupid builds like IWAY and blood spike. Searing flames is nowhere near as bad as the riddiculous 8v8 builds were, neither is any of the other that are going on. If you dont like 6v6, got do GvG instead.

*Note to Gaile and ANET*

Most of these people begging for 8v8 to come back are people that used to purely play gimmick builds like IWAY / Blood spike / Obi flame spike....

Anyone with a brain and that can be bothered to read skill descriptions and the damage levels can tell that 8v8 was and will still be overpowered in HA due to the abuse of these gimmick builds.

Also, to whoever said get a better infuser... You have most likely never played an infuse monk, and I can tell you the amount skill, reaction time and patience required to play one in 8v8 HA is too much more compared to any other build or character class. 50% of the groups I used to infuse in told me I were fantastic, the other 50% would just spam insults and noob comments at me, not realisng how difficult the build was to play during 8v8.

8v8 was hugely imbalanced, 6v6 is the best way to keep HA. To all the 'leet' ha players that dont like this, stop playing HA, go GvG, and stop being such drama queens over it.

Ok. Reading this post has been extremely infuriating because people are simply being ignorant. Many people talk of rank discrimination and complain about it. IMO you have a very weak arguement because I will not even try to deny that there are bad high ranked players but when was the last time anyone saw a r3 grp hold halls regularly? The point is lower ranked players are almost all not as good as the high ranked ones, now I know many people will say that is not true, but dont bitch about rank discrimination go win halls if you want to prove that you are as good as rank 9s. This game is a competitive role playing game the key word being COMPETITIVE, I am afraid the point is to win hence compeitive. Therefore why should people who have earnt their tigers/phoenixs play with people of a lower skill level that will reduce their chances of winning and as I said earlier if you dont think you are of a lower skill level go prove it by winning halls.
The way I got fame when I was low ranked was to pug and then find some people I got along with and enjoyed playing with and started playing with them regularly and graduallly I built up fame.
I do sympathise with those trying to join ha now, but it is no excuse to complain, HA is not easy, get over it.
The fact that pve ers and low ranks were finding hard to ha is NO excuse for making it 6v6. People who complain about 8v8 are simply people who were not able to beat spike or iway (I hated iway but it is something we all had to deal with).
"i suck becuase i never been here before .. yes in your eyes i do but in my eyes im learning such as you did once when you first entered hoh your self .!!": yeah we all did suck when we first came to hoh ( I have screenshots of myself playing skill bars that make myself laugh), but we all also built up a friends list and built up fame.

No, 6v6 did not ruin HA, it is still just as fun to play now as it ever what.

What 6v6 ruined was IWAY, and spike which require no still whatsoever to play, and now the cry baby 'leet' players that only ever IWAY'd and spiked have had their bottles taken away from them.

GET OVER IT. 6v6 has not ruined aything from a gameplay perspective, it is exactly as much fun to HA now as it ever was.

ANET please stop listening to the whining of these players. You just removed heroes from HA because of their complaing a while back, has that increased the number of players in HA? No it hasnt. In fact people that enjoyed playing hero way like myself are now either playing a lot less or stopped altogether. Bringing back 8v8 will have a similar result, alienating all the people that currently play and are used to 6v6, as they will in turn become fed up of and complain about IWAY and whatever imbalanced spikes are running.

HA used to have 6-8 districts yes, 6-8 districts full of IWAY players lol.

Bhavv you posted while I was writing my pervious one. You are the sort of person who does not know what he is talking about: you say go play GvG if u want 8v8 well if you actually knew a flying F**k about GvG you would know how different it is to HA 8v8. Also 6v6 has ruided game play because we now have 9 proffessions in GW and yet now with 6v6 where 2 are bound to be monks you have 4 character slots to chose between 9 proffessions. 8v8 allowed more creative and a wider range of builds (Im not tryin g to deny that there were a lot of gimmick builds too). Also you say "Also, to whoever said get a better infuser... You have most likely never played an infuse monk, and I can tell you the amount skill, reaction time and patience required to play one in 8v8 HA is too much more compared to any other build or character class. 50% of the groups I used to infuse in told me I were fantastic, the other 50% would just spam insults and noob comments at me, not realisng how difficult the build was to play during 8v8.": in saying that you have just addmitted that the level of skill required in HA has been lowered: what is the point in that HA is meant to be hard it is a COMPETITIVE environment

First of all not speaking by myself but just statistics prove that 8vs8 was more fun,
Second there is no skill in HA at the moment, its called "Build" Wars, as in 8vs8 a r9 IWAY team would bash a r3 IWAY build because of skill it used to be 90% players, 10% builds, now its 90% build you using, 10% player.
Third if you want heroes go play hero battles, and how can you talk about pvp skill if you only like to play with heroes which is Ai?
Fourth, you think all HA districts were IWAY? LOL, for someone that likes heroes and 6vs6 i dont know if you played much 8vs8, and besides, even if that statement is true, sure then we had 8 IWAY districts, now we have 2 zergway/jagged bones districts, wahoo! (not).

Ok for the two who actually posted in this thread that know me may wanna grab some popcorn and read this, for everyone else who doesnt.....well you go get some popcorn as well this may take a while. I will ask ahead of time to please forgive me if anything i say may be...well, mean for lack of better wording. I do see very good points from everybody but theres are a few and names will not be called here that have the same general point and all tend to hint towards their vast experience in HA that theyve been here forever theyre r9 etc etc. Buuuuuuuut first things first.

Personally i am very excited about potential changes to HA and skills and even more so excited about actually having a say in it now. I have never posted in Guru forums before except price check....once....*cough* so i think this whole system to be able to communicate to a-net through Gaile and these forums is extremely good and from what I see there aren't too many games that have this sort of developer/gamer communication. At anyrate changes arent necessarily a "nerf" towards one class and a "buff" towards another nor are they to completely low ball everyone who has been playing whatever theyre changing forever or those who are just starting such as HA in question. Everyone should go into the weekend of the 19th-21st with optimism instead of skeptism. Of course some people are gonna suggest certain changes such as the 8v8 coming back (which I will address later) or burial mounds coming back things like that. You cant get all worked up cause maaaybe your not gonna get what you want. These updates and changes are to keep the game new to ALL players whether if they were here since the first beta or just started yesterday. It keeps the game flowing and active and appealing to new and potential gamers.

Rank Descrimination:
Like most social games, events, etc where your going to be interacting with many many people a form of descrimination will always be appearant, thats just one of those things that you must accept when coming into something such as Guild Wars. Now personally i think rank descrimination is total and utter BS and needs to stop NOW. For people who cant show their rank till r3 anyways....now what about those who are r2 and almost r3 such as myself who is r2 with only 50 fame from r3.....are they to be considered one of the r0 "noobs" as we are referred to so often? say your only 100 fame away from r12 but can only emote r9. Now you totally suck cause your not in the "elitist" club of those who are r12. Its not only hard (but not impossible) to find groups but its disheartening because all these people i see that will be spamming "r6 lf r6+ (insert build name here)" etc etc and wont even give you a PM back saying ok i can play this build i play it all the time in RA, TA, GvG, PvE, and whatever else. Why do these do this? because you cant show some form of rank and you will be the downfall of the group. This is basically a bunch of egotisticle people who probably IWAY farmed their faction now think they are the leetsauce cause they have a pretty tiger. I personally worked and grinded and grinded and worked to even get my 130 some odd fame with Pugs, making groups, running with r9 guild groups that luckily for me didnt care i wasnt ranked, and i still have yet to actually get a group that has won halls. I've been to halls on several occasions dont get me wrong and yet my group has always been just a couple seconds off of winning. But i dont get pissed and rage quit from HA forever....i go replace all the people who did ragequit and try try again....but this was before all this rank descrimination started running rampant. I play on American districts and when i go to HA i start there then eventually hop to international. American districts if im lucky there may be 2 or 3 districts hence i hop to intl. where as of lately has been looking the same way, but the hardcore HA'ers are still there spamming their r6/9 groups of uber leetness. In the past maybe....2 months ive seen HA dropped considerably. Sooo Lately while not in the mood to quest or whatever I've been sitting and watching matches on observer mode...to see what i may be able to do to further myself in the HA scene. I've come to the conclusion that theres not a thing myself nor anyone else can do if you can show off your shiney deer or wolfie or tiger or whatever else. I have the builds down and the maps memorized, so please oh friggin please tell me ,those few of you who think that people like me just need to work harder, am gonna find a group when its people like you keeping people like me from ascending any ranks and getting any recognition in HA.

Theres a sayin among the primary PvE characters to those who have FoW armor and green weapons worth 100k+ectos or whatever and just think they are the absolute gods of PvE and will make sure everyone else in the world of Tyria will know this. You were a noob once too. Its pretty simple really. I'm sure someone at some point showed you some compassion once, and it wouldnt kill yall to do the same. I just think that....with HA being not the primary part of the game but rather a decent sized percentage of it, need to chillax and realize...its a game. Let some of the newer ones join your group....teach them the builds. Let them have their chance to show themselves worthy of even being there. If they rage cause yall lost...fine....theres always more players, because again...its a game. So actually its the responsibility of those with the pretty lookin wolves and deer and whatnot to pass some of their skill and knowledge of the game to the newer players. It's not an inconvinience, it may take some time to explain yeah sure....but if you have the time to sit on GW and play for many many hours to accumulate such a rank then you must have more than enough time to explain why a holding build works or who runs the relic and who defends the relic and blah blah blah.

Now imo i think Guild Wars was designed for 50% pvp and 50% pve. They were made to tie together so that you unlock skills in pve and test them out in pve....put together what you feel is your best build and take it to pvp with many other people. I personally think Gaile and the development team does an outstanding job with all these updates and how they listen to the wants of most people. Biased or not theyre made to benefeit everyone. PvP'ers get their double faction double fame weekends and PvE'ers get the holiday festivals. Players from both will get the skill updates to make PvP easier and PvE easier whether its farming or missions or whatever. Just because maaaaaybe they do an update on PvP for this month doesnt mean theyre completely neglecting pve and vice versa. To get the full experience of what Guild Wars has to offer you will have to play both sides and see which one you like. And when everyone started they had their play style of choice so a lot went straight to PvP and a lot went straight to PvE and theres a few who are like myself that hover in between. Not hardcore one or the other but kinda taking in aspects of both. Imo thats what Guild Wars is about.

Sorry if this may be a bit long for everyone to read but after going through all the posts i felt i needed to have my say. If you wanna flame me feel free to im more than willing to back up everything i say including some of the grammar and typo errors. If anyones popcorn is left I'll take any you got ^_^

As a personal note that may not get read, Gaile i think your doing a great job for all the stress that millions of players must put on you keep up the good work and same with the rest of the dev team.

~Assassin

Firstly, I dont play GvG and I dont care about it. All I play is HA.

Secondly, for me HA is still just as enjoyable as it ever was, 6v6 didnt ruin it, heroes didnt ruin it. It is still just as competitive and difficult, and more importantly FUN to play.

And to your reply on the infuse monk part, I did not say the level of skill required has been lowered. I can play every class/ every build in the game with the same level of skill, and I can honestly say playing infuse monk in 8v8 HA was just plain ridiculous compared to EVERY other build I could play. I gave up playing infuse monk after rank 4 or 5 cos I hated it and the response I were getting from idiots in my group that had no clue what playing an infuser is like.

Spike teams wer imo THE problem with 8v8. When done correctly with a perfect spike they are undefeatable, a guild in one of my old alliances used to hold halls with R6+ blood spike for 10-20 consecs at a time, except they wouldnt let me join as I were still rank 4, even though i played blood spike completely fine (**Rank discrimination??**) lol.

Do you have a problem understanding english or are you just daft?

I said I enjoyed playing heroway just as much as with people. And when I played hero way, the team was always 3 heroes and 3 people, and my friends list was filling up faster then it ever did before, shoving that there were plenty of PEOPLE that enjoyed playing the game with me using hero way.

Are you seriously that stupid? Are you high?
Go into the HA section, and please tell me who is voting for 6v6 and who is voting against it. If you think Leteci, Bacon, Nurse, Jelly Beans, my entire guild and other various balanced players are voting 8v8 because then we would be able to efficiently run bloodspike/IWAY/oflame spike in and 8v8 environment, then you sir are clueless.
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@ lyra_song:

Of course rank is a direct measure of experience in HA. A rank 0 person will likely not know about different tactics during relics runs, the current metagame and effective counters to it, how to play altar maps in a way that suits your build, bodyblocking relics and ghostlies, when to kill a ghostly or push for a priest, how to split a team on relic runs, when it is safe to let a ghostly die and go for a recap, etc...
All these examples listed above are acquired through extensive play in HA, and the closest indication of the amount of play in HA is rank. Granted some people might pick most these things up very fast, but they are usually the ones that move up the ranks very fast.

Rank is not perfect though, simply because it can be farmed like any other title in guildwars. Even though farmable, you still learn a great bit playing games after game (even if you start off with C+SPACE or 321 spike), and a rank 6 player generally has more fundamental knowledge of HA that a rank 3 player, and a rank 3 more than a rank 1.
Example: You are a very proud rankless IWAY W/R that only knows how to C+SPACE and spam IWAY. You come up against a ranger spie and you get spiked down many times. Eventually you will realize that there are many areas on the map where the terrain can be used to your advantage to prevent being spiked down. Learning to use and counter line of sight spells and attacks on HA maps comes with experience in HA.

This is really what I meant when I was talking about "Last Day Dawns". A lot of first time (i.e. first characters) level 7s and 8s usually want to join our group and claim they are good enough, but they know very little about how the game works. They are usually the ones that will run ahead and start tanking, and they don't bring rezes or any other skills that are somewhat usefull, they don't kite monsters, and don't know what weapons/runs better suit their builds.
The thing is, these players think they are uber and can do much better than anyone else no matter what level they are. Do you see a pattern?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10096953

GWO pretty much the same thing as above.

HA ID1, been there lately?

Anyways Im not going to argue with anyone here about this when its as clearly shown what people want and know it was better .


I love Ensigns signature " Dont argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience", so true.

Ah yeah, ofc, all the balanced players love 6v6 since there is sooooo much balanced builds going around. I mean, you really got space in your builds to really make a balanced builds, you dont need a SoC, ward and extra condition removal on a non-monk, you're totally not being forced into running those primary/secondary professions since you dont require any of the skills I just said, you're totally free to run what you want and own all those gimmick n00bs who do bring that skills while they're useless sh*t.

Dude, 6v6 does not have space to run anything thats called balanced. And fame farming is way EASIER now then it was in 8v8 because every moron can cap an altar with that stupid SoC. You can barely run balanced builds without being outplayed by a build that can combine all the skills you HAVE to take and pure dmg-output *cough*ss-warder*cough*.

This wont change in 8v8, I agree on that, you still have to take that SoC and that ward of stability, but at least you DO have space to take something that DOES make your build unique and balanced.

Most balanced players want 8v8 back, gimmick players LOVE 6v6 because its a gimmick party with easy fame farming pwning people with overpowered builds.

You're making stupid arguments which you can't prove at all.

Don't try to compare the two, in PvE you are pretty much independant of other people (It's true folks, except for 2 missions in Factions, and 2 in Nightfall). You don't need a single person to hit lvl 20, and bam, you are on the same level as anyone else.

PvP is far different, to even get INTO HA you need a team, unranked folk are far too timid (from what I've seen) to speak out and seek others out of their kind due to their wish to go into a ranked team and learn from experience. Course that doesn't happen, and due to the snobby attitude of some of them (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB), they just get disheartened and just leave for RA (In hopes of a gladiator title which is a sign of experience if anything). The really lucky ones are ones that have a friend to help them into a experienced HA guild, or those who played when HA was still tombs.

So don't compare PvE to PvP.

PvE = Independant
PvP = VERY Dependant on players

You are comparing a direct level difference vs something more arbitrary in rank.

Its not the same. Level is a DIRECT indication of what you can do PHYSICALLY with your character. A lvl 7 will not have the same amount of health, attribute points, or energy.

No amount of skill will make up for having a lot less health and attribute points.

Not a valid comparison at all.

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Two Warriors. both lvl 20, both have max armor (or appears to be), one has rank 3, one has no rank.

Which is the better player? Automatically we assume its the rank 3. But this assumption can be very wrong. It can also be right.

The rankless player could be a rank 2, only a few fights away from rank 3. But he cant show it and he could be lying.

But, if the rank 2 player is indeed just as good as the rank 3 player, his skill will make up for the lack of having a /bambi

Well, if the the 1 warrior is rank 2 and a bit away from r3 I don't see a problem anyway, just fight through that last few fame as allmost EVERYONE did when gaining their ranks.

However, if the difference in fame is bigger, then there's a BIGGER chance that the r3 warriors better knows what he's doing. Same counts for all ranks, when picking a r9 over a r6 then you have a bigger chance that that person knows what he's doing. And that's what it's all about. If I know that the rank 6 is a better player then the rank 9 then I would take the r6 ofcourse, but you do not know this in advance. And since people don't have time to test everyone on their skills they'll pick the r9.

I was simply comparing the experience required to complete a high level mission or quest in PvE to the experience required to join a decent team and have a succesful run in HA. If you don't have the experience, the experienced players simply won't take you because you NEED the experience in order to perform well as a team and reach your ultimate goal. You are at a disadvantage if you have people that do not perform as well due to their lack of experience, bringing the general team performance down, causing extreme frustration to teams striving to reach a goal in a competitive environment.
The people posting here are obviously a PvE crowd (not bashing) and I was simply making a comparison in order to relate to them.

That statement really shows exactly how much experience you have and how well you play and understand this game. Stating that you can play each and every profession and build in this game with the same level of skill is such a arrogant, deluded and downright amusing claim. Mayhap you do not know the difference between playing a class/build and playing it competitively, in which case that sheds even further light on how good you are.
As for the infusing, stopping spikes is a TEAM effort and it relies on each and every member of your team doing their part to slow down, interupt or prevent parts of the spike from going through. It is NOT simply a matter of hitting infuse at the right time.

I think even Kurt The Behemoth has a better understanding of HA, the metagame and the effects of the party size change. If you think FOTM was rampant and a problem back then, I suggest you do a little experiment... Make a team with 2 necro/monk and no jagged bones or spirits in it, and go in. You will find that 8/10 games your healers will function perfectly fine just making use of the dying things provided by the enemy.

Kurt > bhavv @ PvP

Assasin you say somone had to show us compassion and thats how we learnt and now its our duty to do the same. Well thats not true when I was rank 2 no rank 6 s came and showed me the ropes, I developed a friends list and played with the same people all the time and taugh oursleves, thats how it is meant to be done you are not meant to be spoon fed by higher ranks.

Also bhavv I am sure that you do enjoy 6v6 more than you enjoyed 8v8 but the reality is most players enjoyed 8v8 more and people only prefer 6v6 because they have found it easier.

This is where you are wrong. I don't know anyone that judges player skill based on rank, and those that do are generally retarded.
However, if you were to ask "Which is most likely to perform better in HA?" then the answer will most probably be the rank 3 player. I am sorry but 9 out of 10 times the higher ranked player knows more about HA than the lower ranked one (though it does reach a certain point where you can only know so much :P). I am saying this from experience in HA, and not pulling it out of my ass.

Ok well then since no one did anything for you then why not do it for someone else? at least 1 person. thats all im sayin. It would do more good then bad and you never know you may even stuble across someone with a knack for builds or a talent to it. Dont be afraid to experiemtn with players as much as you would with builds.

"Ah yeah, ofc, all the balanced players love 6v6 since there is sooooo much balanced builds going around. I mean, you really got space in your builds to really make a balanced builds, you dont need a SoC, ward and extra condition removal on a non-monk, you're totally not being forced into running those primary/secondary professions since you dont require any of the skills I just said, you're totally free to run what you want and own all those gimmick n00bs who do bring that skills while they're useless sh*t. " WELL SAID!

No one can ever argue that 6v6 has brough more creativity or originallity. Id rather go back to days of iway infested ha than be stuck with such limited scope for builds

The problem with trying to get a PvEr to relate is theres nothing in PvE that can show you have skill, except your performance in a mission.

PvP has gladiator, champion and hero titles. However in some form or another, all of these titles can be farmed, resulting in dilution of its meaning.

Also, stop assuming people here are of the PvE crowd. Its rather condescending. Assumption is the mother of all mistakes.


i would agree with you there, regardless of wether you pulled it our your ass or not. However we are still making assumptions.