Update - Friday February 9 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

09 Feb 2007 at 21:17 - 1

Quote:

Temporary Changes for this Weekend’s Testing Event

Heroes’ Ascent

* Increased party size to 8.
* Claim Resource: increased casting time to 3 seconds.

In response to player feedback from last weekend, we are making the following permanent changes:

Permanent Changes

Paragon

* "Stand Your Ground!": decreased recharge time to 30 seconds, decreased duration to 5..20 seconds.
* "They're on Fire!": decreased recharge time to 10 seconds, decreased duration to 10 seconds, decreased damage reduction to 5..35.
* Angelic Bond: increased Energy cost to 10, increased casting time to 2 seconds.
* Slayer's Spear: increased Energy cost to 10, decreased damage to 5..25.
* Vicious Attack: increased recharge time to 8 seconds.
* Cruel Spear: decreased damage to 1..31.
* "Incoming!": decreased duration to 1..3 seconds.

Dervish

* Avatar of Grenth: decreased duration to 10..40 seconds**

**Not exactly thrilled with this one

Shady79

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

HotD

09 Feb 2007 at 21:20 - 2

cruel spear was the last reason to play paragon for me :P

R.I.P.

Seef II

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

US

R/Mo

09 Feb 2007 at 21:22 - 3

Still skirting around the issue of grenth, but at least it's more manageable now.

keli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Budapest

E/

09 Feb 2007 at 21:25 - 4

Okay thats enough for me. Gaile may i have a question to the dev team or something doing the balances??? The paragon. Why do u nerf the paragon much more?? Well now you cant play with command skills (incoming,stand your.., only gfte is good atm), with motivation ( 10energy for 60 partyheal?and recharge time is 20) , and now you cant play with spear because these shit nerf for all attacks and such. Its disgusting. I think i will delete my paragon....

Crystal Of Winter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Mo/W

09 Feb 2007 at 21:27 - 5

o.O I didn't think Paragons needed nerfing, as they don't seem too popular...

and as for AoG - you see, if you cry cry cry Anet will give in

Seraphim of Chaos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Your Personal Savior [gsus]

W/E

09 Feb 2007 at 21:35 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

Okay thats enough for me. Gaile may i have a question to the dev team or something doing the balances??? The paragon. Why do u nerf the paragon much more?? Well now you cant play with command skills (incoming,stand your.., only gfte is good atm), with motivation ( 10energy for 60 partyheal?and recharge time is 20) , and now you cant play with spear because these shit nerf for all attacks and such. Its disgusting. I think i will delete my paragon....

I believe the topic you're looking for is PvP mad libs.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

09 Feb 2007 at 21:36 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal Of Winter

and as for AoG - you see, if you cry cry cry Anet will give in

QFT... But it probably was a good call. I mean look at AoL, no interrupts or enchantment stripping for that form even though it deserved it at much as AoG did.

As for the other changes, it seems like Anet is getting more and more arbitrary and random in how and when they make skill changes and nerfs. It's almost like they throw darts to see what gets nerfed with each up date.

Lets Get to Healing

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

You want see?

True Gods of War [True]

Mo/W

09 Feb 2007 at 21:36 - 8

I hope you can time Incoming's damage reduction. 1...3 is weak.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

09 Feb 2007 at 21:38 - 9

I missed the "player feedback" where people suggested that Paragons be nerfed to the ground for the third freaking time!

And they nerfed ToF, my favorite Paragon skill, to the ground. Was there some super-Paragon build I missed or something?

And the Avatar of Grenth nerf is pointless. With 8v8 HA, it won't matter how long it lasts; it will set up a super-spike. Restoration Ritualists will become quite valuable.

Seraphim of Chaos

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Your Personal Savior [gsus]

W/E

09 Feb 2007 at 21:39 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I missed the "player feedback" where people suggested that Paragons be nerfed to the ground for the third freaking time!

And they nerfed ToF, my favorite Paragon skill, to the ground. Was there some super-Paragon build I missed or something?

And the Avatar of Grenth nerf is pointless. With 8v8 HA, it won't matter how long it lasts; it will set up a super-spike. Restoration Ritualists will become quite valuable.

I thought you made the "super-Paragon build".

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

09 Feb 2007 at 21:39 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal Of Winter

o.O I didn't think Paragons needed nerfing, as they don't seem too popular...

and as for AoG - you see, if you cry cry cry Anet will give in

Do you play GvG or HA? There are a lot of all or 90% paragon teams running around with near godliness. Not to mention the fact that they completely destroy groups with their ridiculour focused pressure/spiking capabilities. IMO, its a shame that ANet created a character that would gel so well by having 75% of that same type of character in their party. These nerfs, while necessary, do hurt the playability of having just 1 paragon in a party.

As for AoG -> completely overpowered and definitely needed something. Although I think the duration is the wrong way to do it. It should have had some sort of conditional aspect when removing enchantments, such as losing energy or health or something. This may discourage a lot of its use. Oh well, I <3 melandru more anyways. Deep wound anyone? Also, WTB - shatter enchantment!

I think my point is, the changes are understandable (maybe not implemented in the best way) - the paragon was a good idea, but impossible to balance because of thy synergy a team has with all shouts and echos.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

I thought you made the "super-Paragon build".

I thought she also quit GW for Wow...

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

09 Feb 2007 at 21:42 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

stuff...
Restoration Ritualists will become quite valuable.

WOOT!

.

I think the player feedback for Paragon nerf was that friend of a friend who has 3 monitors on his desk? Dude! Para is already kinda weak on damage output, and Having seen Angelic Bond in action.... so the original spike target doesn't die, the Para does... perhaps I haven't seen anyone use it that has good team builds yet tho.

keli

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Budapest

E/

09 Feb 2007 at 21:43 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bastian

Do you play GvG or HA? There are a lot of all or 90% paragon teams running around with near godliness. Not to mention the fact that they completely destroy groups with their ridiculour focused pressure/spiking capabilities. IMO, its a shame that ANet created a character that would gel so well by having 75% of that same type of character in their party. These nerfs, while necessary, do hurt the playability of having just 1 paragon in a party.

As for AoG -> completely overpowered and definitely needed something. Although I think the duration is the wrong way to do it. It should have had some sort of conditional aspect when removing enchantments, such as losing energy or health or something. This may discourage a lot of its use. Oh well, I <3 melandru more anyways. Deep wound anyone? Also, WTB - shatter enchantment!

I think my point is, the changes are understandable (maybe not implemented in the best way) - the paragon was a good idea, but impossible to balance because of thy synergy a team has with all shouts and echos.

Now you cant play spike with paragons... great what can u do with them? nothing, nothign at all... And btw one paragon cant do nothing before the nerf, but it seemed that they were very effective in goups of 6-8. Now the way to end this is to nerf all skills to the ground?

bug_out

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

R/E

09 Feb 2007 at 21:45 - 14

I normally don't complain about nerfs, but...

GG Anet. Way to make Paragons even more of a waste of time, effort and bandwidth, etc., etc., etc...

...I feel much better now.

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

09 Feb 2007 at 21:53 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by keli

Now you cant play spike with paragons... great what can u do with them? nothing, nothign at all... And btw one paragon cant do nothing before the nerf, but it seemed that they were very effective in goups of 6-8. Now the way to end this is to nerf all skills to the ground?

Quite honestly, yes. Plus, I can still think of a lot of ways you can spike with paragons still. Keep in mind that HA is 8v8 now instead of 6v6. That leaves room for at least 1 more spiker, if not two. Do you have an orders necro? Nightmare Weapon? How about command shouts? There are lots of buffs for spikes you can use.

Anyways, my post stated that paragons don't provide a whole lot as a single entity in a party anymore; however, they are still more than viable in groups. I plan on using them tonight for 8v8 Halls (although I'm not gonna be running spears ^^).

The point I was trying to make is that its a shame Anet didn't anticipate how well 6-8 paragons in a team would be, both offensively and defensively. Because, that may have made them rethink the profession (or at least a lot of the echos) altogether, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

09 Feb 2007 at 21:55 - 16

Grenths was needed but I don't exactly see that Paragon Nerf (sorry, that is not a balance no matter which way you want to look at it) justified.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

09 Feb 2007 at 21:58 - 17

Observer Mode is quite amusing. BloodSpike is tearing through everything (duh.)

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

09 Feb 2007 at 22:06 - 18

YAPN!

(yet another paragon nerf)

Although in this case, it was more of an "Anet giveth, and Anet taketh away" situation.

I think we need an anti-paragon for PvE use:

Lonership (primary attribute): For each point in Lonership, the anti-paragon gains 1 point of energy when using a chant or shout. This value is reduced by 1 for each party member affected by the shout.

broodijzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

void

Mo/

09 Feb 2007 at 22:07 - 19

Damn it, this paragon nerf sucks. If only the pvpérs would stop abusing skills

King's Spectre

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Syracuse, NY, USA

The Amazon Basin (AB)

W/

09 Feb 2007 at 22:11 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

Damn it, this paragon nerf sucks. If only the pvpérs would stop abusing skills

Woah! No abuse.. I think Bastian's nailed it with his comments. Stinks for PvE fans, but certianly not PvP fans' fault.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

09 Feb 2007 at 22:28 - 21

sigh, they failed at designing Para, now they fail at balancing him.

They wanted to remove full para teams, but that is now only thing that works for paragons because their skills are not hot at all when they are only ones in team.

sigh

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

09 Feb 2007 at 22:40 - 22

Surely the best way to stop these OP team builds is to limit the max number of a class you can take in a team in PvP.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

09 Feb 2007 at 22:43 - 23

It's a real F%$&ing good thing I already got my Paragon through Nightfall.

As for Avatar of Grenth...Meh.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

09 Feb 2007 at 22:48 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by King's Spectre

Woah! No abuse.. I think Bastian's nailed it with his comments. Stinks for PvE fans, but certianly not PvP fans' fault.

All these nerfs are related to PvP. In this case not even GvG, but the utterly boring HALLS. As if GW would only be about the Hall of Heroes, I give nothing about HoH, nothing.

Halls are unpopular, got made even more unpopular and now they are back in a way in the IWAY age again. Wonder how they want to attract new players to HoH this way.

Back to Paragons:
1 Paragon is no danger. A huge PvP group has power and very good synergy. But so are and were the easy to defeat IWAY Warriors, actually. As if spears could not be evaded by simple side stepping, as slow as they fly.

Strong Healing, Strong Spear Attacks... did PvPer ever bother to adapt and use some anti-shout skills, bring a Necro for this and not only for abusing the already totally nerfed Jagged Bones?

PvE Parties do not have more than 3 (Paragon Player + Morgahn), usually only 2 Paragons, and one of them is the Henchie Sogolon.

The nerfs to HoH Paragons again affected PvE Paragons as well and hit them hard. If not even harder.

MegaMouse

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

south mississippi

Warriors Of Melos WOM

E/N

09 Feb 2007 at 22:57 - 25

Looks like the nerf bat has hit a new target. Truthfully I think that the game should ahve all teh skills rolled back to what they were originaly. Just fix the skills that are truly broken and leave the rest alone. Several classes are dying now due to that stupid bat and there will be no resurection of thm until NC-Soft relizes they have made a mistake and need to undo all the unneeded nerfing of skills that were working as the dev's planned.

Mega Mouse

Count to Potato

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Imagination Land

I Swear She Was Eighteen [Gwen]

W/

09 Feb 2007 at 23:03 - 26

I remember when Incoming was really long comparatively tho..

grottoftl

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

09 Feb 2007 at 23:07 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaMouse

Looks like the nerf bat has hit a new target. Truthfully I think that the game should ahve all teh skills rolled back to what they were originaly. Just fix the skills that are truly broken and leave the rest alone. Several classes are dying now due to that stupid bat and there will be no resurection of thm until NC-Soft relizes they have made a mistake and need to undo all the unneeded nerfing of skills that were working as the dev's planned.

Mega Mouse

NCSoft has nothing to do with skill changes and updates it's all ArenaNet

Grolubao

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Almada, Portugal

Silêncio Nocturno

Mo/A

09 Feb 2007 at 23:13 - 28

Paragon we will miss u someday...

Lonesamurai

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Cheltenham, Glos, UK

Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS]

R/A

09 Feb 2007 at 23:16 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by grottoftl

NCSoft has nothing to do with skill changes and updates it's all ArenaNet

theres no point, he doesn't listen

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

09 Feb 2007 at 23:20 - 30

Difficult for ANet. PvP required these nerfs I presume. For me, well I could still cobble some para build for PvE I guess, but it is not worth it.

I agree with Mega Mouse. Let's roll all the skills back to what they were originally. And balance PvP some other way. Penalty for more than one of each class on a team, that sort of thing.

Trying to cure PvP abuses with a nerf bat is self-defeating, because the abuse now focuses on another class, nerf that, rinse and repeat. A small core of players remain. The masses drift away.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

09 Feb 2007 at 23:22 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I missed the "player feedback" where people suggested that Paragons be nerfed to the ground for the third freaking time!

And they nerfed ToF, my favorite Paragon skill, to the ground. Was there some super-Paragon build I missed or something?

And the Avatar of Grenth nerf is pointless. With 8v8 HA, it won't matter how long it lasts; it will set up a super-spike. Restoration Ritualists will become quite valuable.

I wouldn't say Resto Rit maybe Communing but not Resto.I am quite astonished about what was left in and what was left out as there has been no official announcement made about the skill balances.I would still like to see SoA get less casting time.

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

09 Feb 2007 at 23:24 - 32

Doesn't matter much to me, I erased my paragon long ago. Even without this nerf they still suck. LMAO

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

09 Feb 2007 at 23:32 - 33

Wow, loads of districts, IWAY, bspike and a lot of spike teams.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

09 Feb 2007 at 23:36 - 34

Paragon Nerf again?!

Sorry this is a big joke, already motivation has been made almost useless in PvE, now they nerf the spear skills.

I’d like to know what player feedback they are reading.

How about strengthening the Paragon skills not used like "The Power is Yours!” How about keeping the paragon skills as they were when released. Other classes such as Rangers and Warriors have over 125 skills to select from. Paragon’s and Dervish have much less. The fact that other classes have more diversity should give them the power they need to defeat paragons in Groups.

As for AoG I think it was fine as it was. Honestly do PvP'rs not use block skills like Riposte and Deadly Riposte?

How about the feedback for the Bloodsong move will they listen to that player feedback as well?

This is not a rant against PvP I play it; but seriously appears that PvP balance is killing the PvE experience, and it does not need to.

How about moveing all skills back to thier original state and see what happens.

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

09 Feb 2007 at 23:41 - 35

Poor Paragon, they're now as useless as Assassins or Mending Wammos!

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

09 Feb 2007 at 23:43 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Will they listen to player feedback?

Listen, yes. Acting would require a recognition by the developers that they may have made a mistake or two.

I think this update was a resounding response to that.

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

09 Feb 2007 at 23:44 - 37

god damn it.........more paragon nerfs? f'ing s't........just after I get my paragon fissure armor, they totally wimpify them.......

zinger, you called it........anerf asks for player feedback, then they totally do something different

more reason they need to delay Ch4 (see relevent thread)........they have a lot of unf'ing to do the way things are now

Blackhearted

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Ohio, usa

none

Mo/

09 Feb 2007 at 23:51 - 38

lawl. So anet finally gave in (to mass whineing) and nerfed grenth i see. They shouldn't have done that though. Cause now the community wont have anything to whine about.

Reks

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/P

09 Feb 2007 at 23:51 - 39

... Well there goes any fading hope for my Paragon heroes in PvE. Sorry Morgahn, but ANet hates you. I bet in the next update they'll get nerfed again. xD Gotta keep the theme going, you know?

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

09 Feb 2007 at 23:52 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Surely the best way to stop these OP team builds is to limit the max number of a class you can take in a team in PvP.

seconded. No reason to have more than 3 of ANY class. The exception is MAYBE elementalists, assuming they run different elements.