Is Anet Deterring Players from Playing Many Characters?

Anyway, how's everyone doing on the Challenge Mission Ladder?

Edit:

Think I come off as too much as a jerk here. I just don't appreciate people going out of their way to say someone is whining when trying to discuss something.

This is whining -> "Oh noes I got banned for using a bot! WTF WTF WTF."
This is not -> "It would be nice if we could change our second class without having to map."

Please adjust your whine detectors accordingly.

The prophecies map layout is very convenient. its easy and for the most part, it is fun. But lets face it. Why would you ever do older missions ever after that? It makes the rest of the game just a waste of space.

You say you wanna help your friends with other characters. How could you if you skipped those missions? Skip to the end, and skip all the content.


Getting to the end is not the point. For me, its the journey and not the destination.

Skill points and protector titles.

Wish the earlier missions would give skill points for foreigners, but that is a tangent I guess.

Okay yes so MY BAD for making and wanting to play all the professions and learn their little nuances. However, just because a NEW GAME comes out, it does not mean I lose the ability to play my ESTABLISHED character well. I will say These things once again...

1. THIS IS NOT ABOUT NEW CHARACTERS...this is about established charas for long time players (who are dwindling quickly because of the boring grind (PvE), and the lack of PvP fixes.)

2. Agreed that the characters are different, but I (the player) know the storyline and have been through it a minimum of once. Even IF(and that is a BIG IF) the community was actually RP, I as a person with a memory and somewhat decent grasp on imagination and continuity would be able to blend my established character into ANY outpost or situation in the storyline.

3. NO ONE would be forced to use the unlocked areas. If you wanted to play every mission and quest that would, still be open to you. However, it would give those that didn’t want to do that the OPTION to not do it, once they met the requirements to do so.

4. Opened/unlocked does not mean complete…Missions and quests would not automatically be complete.

Suggestions/Requirments to implement this and reasons it would help.

1. At least one chara has to have completed the campaign.

Now the fun part.

2. As a second chara opens a REPEAT outpost/town it unlocks for charas that meet age/exp requirements. (Repeat being just because I rushed one chara through on primary missions only doesn’t mean I found, Port Sledge. Not unlocked on at least 2 charas NOT open for all.)

Age/Exp Requirements for unlock

(all numbers really just pulled out…but it seems to be a standard time area for chara understanding….LOL, for most.)

Chara must be a minimum of Level 20 and have all of the following

1. 200 Hours Old of PLAY time (yes this can be reached afk, thus the reason for the next requirement)
2. 700,000 Experience Points

Yes People will still find away around them, but at least they would have to work a bit at it, especially with “running” taken out of Factions and Nightfall.


Examples

Illusiona~ Monk [P] (DID all core 2ndry profession quests, had to buy new ones like everyone else[would have preferred a quest])
1,290 Hours Old (21 Months)
4,134,534 experience points

Completed all 3 campaigns…(full storyline including all quests in Proph and Factions, 3 to go in DoT, Leveled all of the Heroes except Razah)
GMC of Tyria
98.4% Canthan
99.6% Elona

291 Elite Skills Capped

Protector of Tyria…blah, blah, blah (various other titles)

Sorcha~Necro [P] (DID all core 2ndry profession quests, had to buy new ones like everyone else[would have preferred a quest])
299 Hours Old (17 months)
1,440,481 Exp

Completed Prophecies and Factions in SunSpear Sanctuary (with LOW LEVEL heroes because I brought her across in the first few days of NF)


Lustra~Dervish [NF]
203 Hours Old (3 Months)
754,093 Exp

Completed NF First (full storyline including all quests), in Augury Rock

Siobhan~Paragon [NF]
12 Hours Old (31 Days) [Level 8]
28,730 Exp

Sitting idle tired of farming for Sunspear Points

Chimera~Sin [F]
28 Hours Old (13 Days)
155,761 Exp

Completed “Noob Island”, Jumped to NF sitting on Docks with Level 15 Heroes.


Sorcha(as well as any other established chara) would have access to the areas in NF because Lustra AND Illusiona have opened them up. Same way Lustra would have access to Prophecies and Factions because Sorcha and Illusiona opened them up before her.

Siobhan and Chimera, WOULD NOT have access as they don’t meet all of the requirements.


Reasons it would help.

1. People could use any of their established charas in any town or mission. No more sorry only my dervish is that far. Which could breathe new life into the comatose PUG.
2. More playablity, for the simple fact as it gives more choices.
3. Would bridge a bit more of the gap felt between PvP and PvE. The rift exsists because they are supposedly 2 different beasts and yet they are not. Both sides think the other side has it easy, therefore getting preference.

*slips on flame resistant armor and stands next to the lake* Let the flames begin, but instead of giving the BS that that is how its supposed to be, or it would just make things too easy, think outside the norm, and try and see where long time players are coming from and sadly going to…give us a reason to want to play, not make us play to get to someplace we’ve been before. You say its easy enough to do with time…just because its easy doesn’t mean we should have to keep doing it over and over and over again.

The PvE vs. PvP argument has never worked, because they are fundamentally different modes of play with fundamentally different requirements and objectives. PvP is about skill-based competition, which requires a level playing field. In fact, I've always thought that the entire concept of unlocking anything for PvP to be misguided. Fighting games don't require their players to 'unlock' special moves. FPS don't require their players to unlock weapons or abilities. RTS don't require their players to unlock units. The entire basis of competition is that all players start every game with identical tools and equal access to additional tools.

PvE in its current form cannot function under the mechanic described above without trivializing itself. If anything I do on one PvE character is automatically transferred to all PvE characters, I only have the incentive to play the game once, no matter how many additional characters I have. We can limit the types of achievements transferred - maybe only towns, or only skill, etc. but this doesn't change the basic argument: PvE is about having things to do, and the more you transfer between characters, the less there is to do, and the shorter PvE becomes.

Not as much, i think *all* 8 of my characters have some Sunspear title. Even my prophecies MM, level 12, has that blasted commander title.

Still, I don't support merging PvE titles. Pointless.

(probably stated already, but I honestly dont want to read through 7 pages...)
If you dont want to take all of your characters through the campaign, dont make so many characters...

If you don't want to read though the discussion then don't reply...same concept as you just threw out about the characters.

Last I checked this was a forum to DISCUSS things, and maybe just maybe come up with something constuctive and helpful.

What is this about merging titles that not what this is about this thread is about nor is it about new chars either. this thread is about grinding through the game with 10 chars and not having to do so. why is it that people are hung up on the new chars and merging titles anyway. please if you have something to contribute to this thread then post but by all means please don't post if you don't have or cant contribute to the thread.

Little harsh. Even though what she said was stated like 46 times. Anyway the title/map system is fine how it is. If you dont want to replay the game, then dont. Focus on 1 charecter thats extremely good. Or PvP.

Then why did Anet give us 4 char slot to begin with then 2 or 3 chars slots with each new chapter.

and also the ability to buy more char slots through the Guild Wars Store.

So that the people who dont mind playing the game can make a few good charecters. I was just suggesting what people who are to lazy to do that game again should do.

The titles deal was in the OP, that I vaguely remember, Phan. There are some that should be account based. The Wisdom title, for example, encourages you to pool all your orange items to one character. Then if you want to expert salvage stuff, you pass that stuff to that character, too.

The game encourages you to ignore the PvE grind after a very short period of time. PvP is where character flexibility exists, and account titles are a permanent thing.

Everyone in this thread has agreed, yes, that the game is currently designed so you won't play more than a couple guys.

The people who think this is a good thing, I (and you, it seems) feel are wrong.

Personally I'd rather hop on a treadmill that goes somewhere.

That they only offered 4 slots was clearly only to help force people into buying the expansions.

If they allowed the primary class to be changed, yeah it would make this "whining" moot. It would also be extraordinarily odd and lame - wildly different character graphics and such. Hence all the "outpost unlock" talk, as the least lame way to reconcile this.

Do I ever expect the developers to acknowledge the arcade-y style of the game and implement this option? No. Do I expect a massive reform of the item system and statistics to make them more interesting? No. Do I expect the trade house before the next campaign comes out? Ooooof course not.

All I want is them to know this is how I feel about this game. If they would actually even acknowledge the idea, that might even make me continue being a customer. A guildmate encouraged me to go ahead with the last two campaigns, but I just have a limit to how much redundant banality I can take.

I think it encourages players to spend time and energy on one or two primary characters.

I have one Assassin and a Necromancer that are my "primary" characters... I've explored most of ALL 3 continents with these characters, done almost all of the quests... got hats/minipets/15k for both

Characters are supposed to be separate entities when it comes to titles and what they have access to. Please A-net, keep it this way.

If anything... make it HARDER for people to get to level 20, it's too easy as it is. No one should be running around with 12 characters if you ask me.

If you want a treadmill that goes somewhere, maybe you should go outside and run around, or buy a bike. You don't need a number of bikes. Just one will do, and it will be enjoyable.

Uhhh... I don't PvP and I say you shouldn't make so many characters. Also, PvP players have a large restriction that PvE players don't. PvP only characters are just that. They can only play PvP, which is why they can buy skill packs. PvE players can do both.

I can see why some people want this added. I mean, I wouldn't want to play the game over and over. However, I don't like having more than one or two characters. But I think the idea that all outposts suddenly appear on all your characters' maps once you've finished the campaign is insane. However, maybe instead of making players play through all missions again (in the case of Factions and Nightfall) they maybe should make the continent runable once you've finished it with one character. But to play missions you either have to play from the start or join a group that has played from the start. This would mean that there is still some effort for second or third or fourth etc characters, but it would mean they wouldn't be getting completely bored with the game.

That would be your "improved storage system".

Hah, just like how the party search was our "improved trade system". Nice.

Very true about the storage and party search.

Fixed~~~~ A+++

Though I do like cycling, it's hard to live somewhere that's a safe activity to do. Suicidal in the city streets; dirt roads here have a load of rocks all up in them. Going in a circle at the park is about as much fun as walking around in circles on your property... just not quite as much.

How about that Critical Chop, eh? Coolest form of power creep ever while it was up there, or what?

You need to stop editing quotes like that. It borders on flaming and is rather inapproriate to the discussion.

While Guild Wars is time consuming through quests and mission, other MMOs are time consuming through leveling up.

Those treadmills don't go anywhere. It gives you an illusion of progress.

If a player enjoys leveling up as the majority of their gameplay, instead of actual content, then i guess that works for them. But thats not how Guild Wars works.

If anything. Anet needs to add better incentives to continue playing through the game with more characters. Click clicky.

As others have said, why should you be allowed to go and start off at some highend place and get your max armor and cap skills you shouldnt get until later in the game?


Titles are not suppose to be easy to get they require work and they were put into play so when people have completed everything they can work towards titles. Titles are not suppose to be easy to get, believe it or not they require work!


This is the most bogus idea I have ever seen suggested. I can tell you why they shouldnt allow this, you have one character farming skill points while your new character uses them and buys skills. Each character should have to work on its own not have other characters scratch its back.


In the end what you want is to make this game ultra easy to do basically anything which is really crazy. I cant believe this...

I am 99.999% sure that Axe wasn't offended.

I disagree. The thing is, there's more player choice involved there, and some rewards that you can not get without that level grind, as opposed to the story grind we have here. The level grind in GW is spurious and out of place completely - it means nothing. People who bash the game/the ones that threw it aside years ago, claimed it was to make people think it was an RPG like Diablo or the such from the short trial time they get with it.

Arena.net was mostly the team that did Starcraft, GW is definitely soccer in a fantasy battle setting (monk = goalie, lots of high kicking, low scoring action, etc), etc etc etc. There isn't supposed to be a treadmill for the functional power level of a character, yet the primary class is of course a huge deal, attribute line combinations, and all that.

That WoW and the like give you extreme breadth of where you can choose to grind at a particular time is really, really nice. It gives the player a small choice of how to choose to play the game; here we have a linear console-esque experience. Where you must kill every_single_group_of_monsters you come into contact with unless you use a running build.

Even making it so that every single monster in an explorable zone weren't all in cahoots to kill you dead would be an improvement to a degree. I see an NPC outside of a town, and my suspension of disbelief is completely shattered. No way could a puny level 10 farmer survive out there by himself with the skillset he had loaded. No. Way.

Yeah, it was mission based. I would beat a mission, zoomy to the next area. Almost all of the map surface ought to be devoted to missions. Hooray.

The concept sounds like a bunch of extra work for functionally what is extremely close to the same thing as "unlock all outposts/missions" advocate.

Bottom line is There isn't enough to do after beating the game to keep you wanting to stay on the same chara.

AND

There is way too much monotony
(Def:1. wearisome uniformity or lack of variety, as in occupation or scenery.
2. the continuance of an unvarying sound; monotone.
3. sameness of tone or pitch, as in speaking.) to want to play through (pushing it) more than 4 times.

MAYBE in future chapters they will rectify this problem, at least in Prophecies you had different quests to get your skills. WOW, something to change it up a bit.

[QUOTE]and there you have hit the nail dead center smack on the head

this game is meant to be beaten and then do what you want until the next chapter comes out rince and repeat

you *beat/win/FINISH the game and then do whatever you find FUN until either the next chapter comes out

orrrrr............

you do something else that is fun until the next chapter comes out as your vacation is not costing you a penny if you dont play.

Would it be so terrible if we had a choice? Say you create a new character and are asked, would you like to have access to the exisiting map or start new?

Or/else "Would you like to apply the current map to all your characters?" When you finish a chapter.

It would not break the game and the people that enjoy doing it over and over can do so, and those that do not , don't need to.

Fact: If GW/Anet does not focus on ALL players and stops catering to a ceratin percentage, Guild wars will go the way of lineage and lose players and revenue. There are too many choices for games now.

I've beat Prophecies three times, Factions 4-5 and NF 5 times and counting...exactly how am I lazy? I'd rather be able to spend time doing side quests, exploring or mastering different builds but instead I have to keep doing the same missions over and over to unlock towns/outposts so that if I need to take one of my characters to a town I actually can. This isn't about "lazy" this is about having to waste limited game time doing the same crap over and over. And if that kind of thing floats your boat great...I don't want to change anything for you, but quit forcing me to do it your way.

There's no threat to your way of life here so how about you quit objecting to what I want to do?

QFE

/AGREE
/SALUTE

what about all the times you misquoted me?


The level grind in GW is pretty much an illusion too. They want you set up to do quests and missions. Yes its linear.

The RPG in GW is really a more one player-ish feel than anything else. Its not an RPG like Oblivion.You dont get to pick and choose and build your character to your exact image.

The RPG experience of GW is not very deep; Armors are not hard to get and very common; Weapon skins mean nothing; Faces are common; Theres very little to do to distinguish yourself really other than via titles, I still protest the OP's idea since it will continue to erode what little RPG fun there is in the game.

I would rather have Anet work on improving the RPG instead of removing it like the OP's idea presents.

Lol. Well don't you know those guys pay off the monsters? its like the mafia.

It pretty much is.

Yes...instead of just giving it to you, do some quests and earn it.

I do agree that grinding through the games per character is monotonous.I do want alternatives.

But i disagree with giving out instant handouts.

My idea seeks to reconcile the wants and needs of a player with many character by making things easier and perhaps add variety while still maintaining the functionality of an actual RPG.

I've thought about this some too but the only conclusion I can come up with is wait longer between releases. I still have characters that weren't through prophecies when nightfall came out. I would love to beat all of the content of all of the campaigns with all of my characters but it takes so long I just can't. I have to pick and choose almost.

I agree some titles must be account based, specially: Wisdom and Treasure Hunter. (They can do it just converting the highest you have in the account based, or combine all character points in one, or whatever idea they could have)

Also: Why is Lucky/Unlucky account based? (I like it that way, but why is account based?)

I think this has to be one of the most ludicrous ideas I have read to date on this blasted forum. To facilitate this would singlehandley destroy PVE, I mean come on PVE is easy enough as it is, the average player could probably sail through PVE quite easily. People would just simply jump to high level areas, obtain all elites skills, armor and items before they had even started the game.

The idea you are propagating was one of the main problems in Prophecies, people would just "run" through the game literally and have all items,armor,weps,skills unlocked before they had even reached level 10.

This was one of the main reasons why A-net actually put a stop to it in factions by only allowing players to move around successfully once they had completed the missions or primary quests.

Here's a better idea, which I think everyone will agree with once they read it

I feel Guild Wars should take a Deus Ex type approach to their storyline having many paths that can be taken which could inevitably end in the same linear storyline that way there is the illusion that the player is experiencing something different from the game though inevitably ending in the same way.

That way the players have a motivation to actually play through the game again and take the other path and see how that fares.

So for example, in Prophecies Rurik kicks the bucket say there is an alternative storyline where you can save rurik and he decides to lead the rufugee camp to another part of the tyrain continent where you get to see different locations,different monsters and maybe even collect an item or two. Ultimately he dies some how anyway and you have to fight him at the end then face off with the Lich Lord on that volcano island place.

Something like that would be much more better and wouldn't actually harm the balance of PVE but rather adding more content to an existing part of the game.

Obviously you guys could fill in the plot holes I have left but you more or less get the picture

What do you guys think of that eh? Pretty good huh?

^^ Draws a sense of accomplishment from his titles..

Wisdom and Treasure Hunter at the very least should be merged to an account title. I felt the same way when I saw the "luck" titles - a goldsink title that matters? Extremely out of character for the game...

Facts to be considered.

1) This thread, either pro or con has drawn attention and will no doubt be discussed at Anet.

2) If they see a financial return (more sales etc) in doing this (as evidenced by the upcoming 'Hard" mode. See the expanation text when you see where you are with POT, POC, POE. re: guardian of..) . They will do it, and no amount of whining or flaming, tantrums or name calling will alter that fact.

3) Gw/Anet and other games online have ingnored their entire player base and favored a select few for too long, and are now they are regretting it.

The only ones that oppose letting people decide to either play through again or choose to have the same map opened for all their characters are very self centered and only care about themselves and what they want.

As much as I agree with some of the arguments presented here, I am really getting tired of people bitching and complaining about how they are too lazy to just play through the campaigns. I don't think that once you've been somewhere that you should be able to get there with ALL of the characters on your account because that doesn't make sense. If a family member of yours goes on a trip across seas, that doesn't make it your personal experience too, you just know about it by proxy. The same goes for titles. If you know so much about one thing, your best friend isn't automatically going to know the same things. It's going to take them as long as it took you to learn everything. All of you people with over 2k hours of play have no life to speak of so I don't get why you're complaining. If you have problems with it, go play some other game. There are tons of free online games out there and most, if not all, of them are worse than GW, so count your blessings and just accept what won't be changed.

Gw is a modular game. It gives the options to buy what you want and don't want.

Those that feel they need to "have it all" and the hard core players are going to have to keep up on every game and are going to "feel" this squeeze. Any of these types of players that pick up GW latter... will feel even worse.

From the way Gw was sold to me, I knew it was going to be a modular game with new content coming out in a frequent basis. That's why I have a specific character that's about as 100% (all town mapped, all skills per chapter) and the rest are not so much like that.

Lyra has asked over and over for explanations. I think I start to see the problem - and it's one of perception:

I think most people would say this isn't an RPG at all. I get to choose a character name and a character class, but where are my RP choices? Let's get down to brass tacks. This is a simple hack and slash game. It's essentially, in fact a PvP game - Guild Wars, let us not lose focus here GvG is what it's all about.

Note: I'm a commited PvE player so don't flame me

It's not an RPG. If it was an RPG I could take my character along different storylines with different consequences. Choose to be Evil and support Varesh, talk to NPC's whose reactions to my choices affect the game world. There are none of these things. Forget Role Play, it simply doesn't exist in this game. The focus of the game is PvP. ANet have no mandate to create a complex RP environment. If that is what you seek, go play D&D online instead.

There are, I know, a few committed RPers in the game. That's fine, go ahead guys, have fun.

The game itself does not well cater for them.

PvP has a meta game. From the early days of IWAY, through Bunny Thumper and whatever is currently fashionable, the designers of team builds have had as much influence over PvP success as the skill of the actual players executing the tournaments. For this to work, complete skill sets must be available.

Similarly and I think this is often missed, PvE has a meta game. People are coming up with clever builds for FoW, UW, Deep, Mallyx etc. Again, complete skill sets must be available. This means if I cap a skill in Ring of Fire, then get another different character to DoA, I don't want to run that character all through Tyria because I need that already unlocked cap. All the non-elite skills are available, why should I have to waste my precious time chasing elites.

Lyra will say this is because they are different characters, why should one character know what another doesn't?

In an RPG I would tend to agree, but again, this isn't an RPG. It's not the love and care for two very different personalities making long standing RP life choices. It's just me, killing a few mobs and hitting CapSig.

I really don't care if outposts and maps are unlocked or not, but I care deeply about the Elite Skills.

I can envisage an issue of play balance. Newbie areas are not designed for Elite Skills to be flying around. On the other hand, given that we all want our "main title collection" toon to be getting another protector and given we want to help guildies, chances are we're running level 20 skilled up to the max dudes around noob island anyway - so play balance really is neither here nor there.

Having said that, something that must be achieved (let's use Ascension {or equivalent} seeing as it's the unlock for the FoW and UW) before accessing all unlocked elites would also seem like a compromise.

No, it's nice to have a sense of achievement with a new character, if everything was on a plate it would be too easy. Again I say, just let us at our unlocked elites and I'll be happy.

On the other hand if the maps get unlocked that won't make me unhappy.

Again and again - It's NOT an RPG. It's a massively multiplayer online game, with no built in role play of any kind at all.

i really think Anet should bring back skills as quest reward. The original GW is still my fav and out of the 3 chapters it's the one i have played through with the majority of my characters.

I did this simply because it was worth it, i have completed NF twice and frankly i got bored. My poor dev is still stuck on newb island

Roll on chapter 4!

The fact that you are trying to appear clever by using my own words against me is weak, I am presenting what I feel is a valid and much better idea than what the inital poster presented us with.

Just like I took the time to set my stall out to present my views an opinions as to why the opening posters ideas wouldn't work. I also presented a positive and I feel constructive feedback as to what could be better.

Instead of trying to engage me in a constructive debate you have instead decided to take the lazy way out and gain a pyrrhic victory over me with your lazy and inadequate response.

Which just seems to me that you are either trying to trivialise the whole thread or you are simply not up to par to deal with me and said views.

If you want to accomplish something, be a leader in your community, a mentor to someone, teach, build, volunteer, etc.. They are accomplishments. This is just a game that is fun (or was) to use, and a revenue stream for GW. Don't make it out to be anything else. It's nothing more than a passtime. If it seems more important to you then that, perhaps you need to stop playing so much and get out in the real world. We'd love to see you and won't bite