THIS NERF IS STUPID!! your bizzy to distroy 1 of the best games! realize that next month you will nerf Elemantalist because they do to much dmg. You can't stay nerfing until there is no dmg any more realise that!!!!.
I didn't bought this game to full nerf it every month!!!
You create the greatest split builds now!!!
Bud GW will not see that.
Good luck whit your next NERF!! FGS
[Dev Update] Skill Balances and Hero Battles
dutch legends
Retribution X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dutch legends
THIS NERF IS STUPID!! your bizzy to distroy 1 of the best games! realize that next month you will nerf Elemantalist because they do to much dmg. You can't stay nerfing until there is no dmg any more realise that!!!!.
I didn't bought this game to full nerf it every month!!! You create the greatest split builds now!!! Bud GW will not see that. Good luck whit your next NERF!! FGS |
Discord, needs like a 1.5 sec cast. or, a slighter longer recharge. one or the other. NOT a 2 sec cast.
Shadow Prison NEEDED a nerf. it was overused. almost every sin and their grandmother inlaw ran it. Also was WAY overpowered. 20 sec recharge, 66% decrease, lasted around 7 seconds, AND had a 5 E cost?
Not overpowered? Um, What game have you been playing? I know I've been playing PvP quite a bit recently, and All my chars would die in 5-7 seconds.
Warriors can't heal, they die even faster. Sins have crap heals, Neccies, LOL. What heals? Mesmer, Too long of a cast. Monk, dead, usually trying to kite away, and they're usually ganked to begin with. Ranger, No heal worth a cows butt. Rit, usually ganked. Paragon, too long cast. Dervish, Maybe if he had enough enchs on themself they could survive. Ele, Unless it's an invinci ele, Dead, because needs to cast in order to heal.
In short, SP/BoA sins were too powerful. SP is still very elite. it's counterpart, dark prison has a 45 sec recharge, 10 E cost, has half the duration, AND only slows by 33%. SP is more than twice as powerful. Still is.
Wastrels, Meh. Never seen it used. Unnatural def needs a kick in the rump...
Rit spike, Def needed. Rit spikers were getting way too frequent. Xinrae's weapon could really counter well though.
noocoo
Now PST 03:30 at March 07 in Wednesday, this update had not been put yet.
So, is it late? or?
So, is it late? or?
Retribution X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by noocoo
Now PST 03:30 at March 07 in Wednesday, this update had not been put yet.
So, is it late? or? |
The Ernada
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dutch legends
THIS NERF IS STUPID!! your bizzy to distroy 1 of the best games! realize that next month you will nerf Elemantalist because they do to much dmg. You can't stay nerfing until there is no dmg any more realise that!!!!.
I didn't bought this game to full nerf it every month!!! You create the greatest split builds now!!! Bud GW will not see that. Good luck whit your next NERF!! FGS |
Shmanka
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Originally Posted by Bastian
So, in your opinion, rit spike does not deserve the nerf because it is a gimmick and not abused? I find that difficult to swallow.
Additionally, SP is an Elite skill. I would be willing to suggest that because it is elite it deserves to be stronger than 90% of the other snares in the game. |
As for SP, even though it is elite it theorhetically had no cost/downside to it. compared to a skill such as Deepfreeze(I know Aoe..) 3 seconds cast time and 15 energy compared to 1/4 second and a very comparable length with only 1-2 points into deadly arts.
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| As for Iway, the pets didn't really make much of a difference. It affected 1 skill on everyone's bar, and could be replicated by having any one of your teammated die. Remember, there were 8 resses in IWAY for a reason. |
You may disagree thats fine, but I still stand by that Discord was overnerfed. I had no problem monking against it, it was definitely difficult to respond to, yet like I said GvG wise; split, gank, and be good are your 3 solutions to anything you cannot defeat 8v8 head on.
KlutzySpy
Oooow damnit not my areaspikerit? :S oh well, only use one of those, but still, im waiting long enough on spiritburn to recharge!
Lynnrose
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Originally Posted by Sakura Haruno
BoA isnt really overpowered and if it gets nerfed will just switch to another 33% attack speed boost. theres many others\. if experienced the frenzy/dash variant is good.
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sixdartbart
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
Raarghh!! I'm with you!! All deez nerf make guild wars sux becuz I cant killz stuff in PVE no moar!!!!! PVE is noa dead!!! Dare is no damage in PVE so why bother playing?!?!!!!!! No moar nerf plzzz!!!!!
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For you people please go here http://secure.hop.com/
Thanks
Draikin
New update is out and with an undocumented change: hero battles finally have consecutive wins, which is a good thing.
Ecko-
Any build that can roll top 100 guilds in under 10 mintutes with four heros..I would say that is abused.
The Ernada
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Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Anyone else notice what most of the like minded bitching and moaning people here have in common?
For you people please go here http://secure.hop.com/ Thanks |
Damus
gg on the update, much needed. Not perfect, but then what is--the changes address the abuses happening in pvp, so mission accomplished.
Juicey Shake
LOL
moar liek faile gray m i rite or m i rite
more competitive and interesting? uh, no. 1 guy holding center can go run around and hold center + 1 other shrine for the whole game if he feels like, while enemy can send their non-holding 3 to cap 1 while the runner player caps other shrines. gg anet, gg.
8-9 min matches galore. thanks for being too lazy to put in better match objectives and instead just do a lazy fix.
gg anet, gg.
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Originally Posted by Faile Gray
We feel this change will impact movement, tactics, and build creation in a positive manner and will generally make battles more competitive and interesting. With the upcoming Hero Battles ladder on the horizon, we felt a need to improve this format before the ladder is put into place. We will continue to monitor this venue and adjust this mechanic as needed.
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more competitive and interesting? uh, no. 1 guy holding center can go run around and hold center + 1 other shrine for the whole game if he feels like, while enemy can send their non-holding 3 to cap 1 while the runner player caps other shrines. gg anet, gg.
8-9 min matches galore. thanks for being too lazy to put in better match objectives and instead just do a lazy fix.
gg anet, gg.
dgb
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
I've been wondering that too... I can finally play AB without getting raped by a BoA/SP sin! Whoo!
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Divinus Stella
The rit nerf is pretty cool, must hurt to be in PvE right now.
Lord Oranos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
Shadow Prison NEEDED a nerf. it was overused. almost every sin and their grandmother inlaw ran it. Also was WAY overpowered. 20 sec recharge, 66% decrease, lasted around 7 seconds, AND had a 5 E cost? Not overpowered? Um, What game have you been playing? I know I've been playing PvP quite a bit recently, and All my chars would die in 5-7 seconds. Warriors can't heal, they die even faster. Sins have crap heals, Neccies, LOL. What heals? Mesmer, Too long of a cast. Monk, dead, usually trying to kite away, and they're usually ganked to begin with. Ranger, No heal worth a cows butt. Rit, usually ganked. Paragon, too long cast. Dervish, Maybe if he had enough enchs on themself they could survive. Ele, Unless it's an invinci ele, Dead, because needs to cast in order to heal. In short, SP/BoA sins were too powerful. SP is still very elite. it's counterpart, dark prison has a 45 sec recharge, 10 E cost, has half the duration, AND only slows by 33%. SP is more than twice as powerful. Still is. |
Diddy bow
ill try the new hero battles after i sleep XD.
Im all for any rit nerfs, but i still think spirit spam needs tonned down somehow .
Im all for any rit nerfs, but i still think spirit spam needs tonned down somehow .
Hyunsai
If they nerf BoA, Sins will use Flurry. It doesn't affect dagger skill damage, so it works well with this too, it was already tested. Sins use Burst because it's the best option, not the only one.
Zonzai
Welcome to my world. It used to be the elementalist that did all the damage. Then ANet threw down the gauntlet on us. I'm not at all even slighty suprised to see nerfs to the assassin.
The devs want the game to be about pressure builds, not spike builds. They have nerfed many skills, professions and arenas to do away with spike builds.
This isn't the first time it has happened and it won't be the last time either.
Just don't tell ANet that if they didn't like spike damage they probably shouldn't have made an assassin to begin with.
The devs want the game to be about pressure builds, not spike builds. They have nerfed many skills, professions and arenas to do away with spike builds.
This isn't the first time it has happened and it won't be the last time either.
Just don't tell ANet that if they didn't like spike damage they probably shouldn't have made an assassin to begin with.
Randomway Ftw
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Originally Posted by Hyunsai
If they nerf BoA, Sins will use Flurry. It doesn't affect dagger skill damage, so it works well with this too, it was already tested. Sins use Burst because it's the best option, not the only one.
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Other options include frenzy which is suicidal on a sin, and you need a cancel stance, I'm pretty sure Brehon ran a frezny sin way back though.
Flail may work because your target is already snared from shadow prison.
TF is ok but has a slower speed.
Tiger stance has a longer recharge (but matches prison), and only lasts 4 seconds, blocks or misses screw with the chain anyway, and boa sins usual have expose defenses helping to negate the drawback of this skill.
Out of those choices I would take flail or TF, maybe even Tiger Stance
Hyunsai
Flail is not an option because of the 4 adrenaline.
Tiger Fury is 10 energy, so you need 30 base energy to start the chain, not that great for 25% IAS.
That's true, I forgot Tiger's stance. 4 seconds is enough for the combo.
So after BoA, we will have to adress Tiger's Stance, heeh.
Tiger Fury is 10 energy, so you need 30 base energy to start the chain, not that great for 25% IAS.
That's true, I forgot Tiger's stance. 4 seconds is enough for the combo.
So after BoA, we will have to adress Tiger's Stance, heeh.
bryann380
I could care less about PvP but looking at this from my PvE channeling rit's point of view, I'll comment on it. I didn't really notice the changes to Gaze From Beyond and Spirit Rift until like 30 minutes after the update. I was still kicking butt at Boreas Seabed. =)
I have 16 Channeling and my Spirit Rift does 142 damage. But to do 420, by my calculations, that would result in the boss having a Channeling level of around 55-56. Anet, you keep talking about making balances but when will they ever apply to monster bosses?? I strongly agree at least some of them in all 3 campaigns are indeed very overpowered. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's THEM.
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
looks at the Heket Rit Boss in Vabbi with the 420 dmg (!) Spirit Rift spam
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Kakumei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bryann380
I have 16 Channeling and my Spirit Rift does 142 damage. But to do 420, by my calculations, that would result in the boss having a Channeling level of around 55-56. Anet, you keep talking about making balances but when will they ever apply to monster bosses?? I strongly agree at least some of them in all 3 campaigns are indeed very overpowered. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's THEM.
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unmatchedfury
Hero areanas hasn't been helped that much. Holding builds are still going to be plenty effective. with 3 holding the shrine and one running around capping (note: the capper is fast and usually has a run skill, simply put if you come for him he runs before you can get in range. no confrontation for you t o win. so you can sit there and cap the shrine if you like, the solo capper is doing his busness on other shrines while his team has 2 pips of regen.
point being i don't think spirits are gonna disapear anytime soon from HvH.
point being i don't think spirits are gonna disapear anytime soon from HvH.
explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bryann380
I have 16 Channeling and my Spirit Rift does 142 damage. But to do 420, by my calculations, that would result in the boss having a Channeling level of around 55-56. Anet, you keep talking about making balances but when will they ever apply to monster bosses?? I strongly agree at least some of them in all 3 campaigns are indeed very overpowered. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's THEM.
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It shouldn't be a problem because humans can learn and adapt whereas the game AI cannot.
Redfeather1975
*famous sayings police appear*
It's 'I couldn't care less'.
Sorry, it's just that there was a topic somewhere about all that, and I actually kept saying it wrong before reading that topic. It's time to spread the word so we all do it justice.
/me strikes a pose and runs off a cliff
'Weeeeeeeeeeeeee'
It's 'I couldn't care less'.
Sorry, it's just that there was a topic somewhere about all that, and I actually kept saying it wrong before reading that topic. It's time to spread the word so we all do it justice.
/me strikes a pose and runs off a cliff
'Weeeeeeeeeeeeee'
Buzzer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bryann380
I have 16 Channeling and my Spirit Rift does 142 damage. But to do 420, by my calculations, that would result in the boss having a Channeling level of around 55-56. Anet, you keep talking about making balances but when will they ever apply to monster bosses?? I strongly agree at least some of them in all 3 campaigns are indeed very overpowered. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's THEM. |
Just move out of the way of Spirit Rift, or use prots like the other guy said.
Bosses should never be nerfed. PvE isnt hard.
Bastian
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Originally Posted by Hyunsai
Flail is not an option because of the 4 adrenaline.
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Carl Butanananowski
10 energy shadow prison will screw over many assassin builds. D:
SerenityAlum
A question/observation from a PvE player: The replies appear to be from PvP players - is this correct? If this is correct then the PvE metagame impact is not being addressed; so is one to assume that PvP trials will continue to dominate skill nerfs/buffs and the PvE impacts will be ignored?
Razz L Dazzle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SerenityAlum
A question/observation from a PvE player: The replies appear to be from PvP players - is this correct? If this is correct then the PvE metagame impact is not being addressed; so is one to assume that PvP trials will continue to dominate skill nerfs/buffs and the PvE impacts will be ignored?
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VitisVinifera
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SerenityAlum
A question/observation from a PvE player: The replies appear to be from PvP players - is this correct? If this is correct then the PvE metagame impact is not being addressed; so is one to assume that PvP trials will continue to dominate skill nerfs/buffs and the PvE impacts will be ignored?
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kvndoom
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SerenityAlum
A question/observation from a PvE player: The replies appear to be from PvP players - is this correct? If this is correct then the PvE metagame impact is not being addressed; so is one to assume that PvP trials will continue to dominate skill nerfs/buffs and the PvE impacts will be ignored?
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I play both types of the game, and you have to understand that PVE is too static to have most balances revolve around it. The same monsters with the same skills in the same locations every time. You can't really revolve the game around that.
If you don't PVP then you can't appreciate why changes like this are important. But I've put in probably 3000 or more hours in PVE over the past 2 years, so I know also that anything can be overcome in that type of play either through build or attrition. I'm not here to encourage anyone to play the game differently than they like; but you have to understand that sometimes a skill you don't see as overpowered or broken in PVE is actually game-breaking on the other side of the fence. Heck, that even goes for different subsets of PVP; Lamentation is something you'd almost never see in RA or TA because coming from just one Rit it's not that big a deal, considering its recharge. But when you get to 6v6 or 8v8 and have multiple copies of 100+ armor-ignoring damage pounding the same target in a 1/4 second window, then it's a whole different perspective.
Guildmaster Cain
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Originally Posted by Buzzer
They have attributes at 16 like you but because their level is higher than yours, they do more damage. On top of that, the damage is doubled because of their boss status.
Just move out of the way of Spirit Rift, or use prots like the other guy said. Bosses should never be nerfed. PvE isnt hard. |
Personally, I retired my Ritualist as a Spirit Spammer, after I finished Factions, because of the nerf. It has been a mule for my other characters ever since. When I discovered the new Channeling powers NF brought him, I decided to take the mule-chains off of him. But sadly I am being forced again to chain him once more.
The only reason to play Ritualist now is, that they still have overpowered, cheap healing skills (260 health for 5 ene, every 4-5 secs). But PLEASE nobody tell anet this, or they will nerf Ritualists beyond redemption.
And to come back at the spiritrifting boss: I don't mind strong bosses, but taking some down with heroes is just impossible or u have to cheat it (wont explain how, try urself). The problem with henchies is, that THEY STAY ADJECANT to you! And if you run away from spirit rift, they will respond too late. PLZ anet, make a SCATTER button for us, or some party formation button or whatever. Or make it possible to flag ALL henchies, not just 3 + whole party.
Edit: In regards to the PvE-use-topic, asked above, I also use a Hero Channeling Spike team to kill creatures in Torment. Spike is the ONLY responsable way to combat Torment Creatures (AoE nuke is STOOOPID, suicidal and makes them spam Call of Torment and before you know, you have half a million Torment Creatures swarming around you).
Deleet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kvndoom
Haha, you said "PVE metagame." THAT is hilarious.
I play both types of the game, and you have to understand that PVE is too static to have most balances revolve around it. The same monsters with the same skills in the same locations every time. You can't really revolve the game around that. If you don't PVP then you can't appreciate why changes like this are important. But I've put in probably 3000 or more hours in PVE over the past 2 years, so I know also that anything can be overcome in that type of play either through build or attrition. I'm not here to encourage anyone to play the game differently than they like; but you have to understand that sometimes a skill you don't see as overpowered or broken in PVE is actually game-breaking on the other side of the fence. Heck, that even goes for different subsets of PVP; Lamentation is something you'd almost never see in RA or TA because coming from just one Rit it's not that big a deal, considering its recharge. But when you get to 6v6 or 8v8 and have multiple copies of 100+ armor-ignoring damage pounding the same target in a 1/4 second window, then it's a whole different perspective. |
This is why, there are no overpowered skills in PvE.(from combatants point of view.)
If skill A is too powerful, ie. it's easier to beat the game, than originally planned by the devs, then it needs to be reduced. But in PvE the difficulty is low, compared to higher PvP, that it is nearly impossible for a single skill to be overpowerred, it would just be good.
There would quickly be developed builds for the good skills, and these builds be spread. In the end, everyone ends up with a good build, but not overpowered, because the computer does not complain, it simply loses.
The computer does not care, whether it was a fair battle or not, it has no emotions what so ever. I'll illustrate:
Player A uses skill X to beat player B.
A feels superior to player B, even though he may have been using a skills, that was too powerful compared to how easy it is to use, ie. Rit spikes.
Player A is happy.
B feels that skill X is overpowered, because he feels, that he put more effort into playing, than player A and should therefore have won. He may conclude that player A is lame, because he uses a broken or overpowered skill.
Player B is unhappy.
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Player A uses skill X to beat computer B.
Player A feels superior to computer B. Player A is happy.
Computer B feels nothing, and does not change or complain.
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I hope that my illustration helped to show that, the player's emotions are the problem here. There needs to be a certain balance between effort and effect.
If effort is too low compared to effect, then problems in ill. A will arise quickly. But sinse no computer complains, the only place where the changes would be needed, are in PvP.
-Deleet, I hope I made some sense.
Sagius Truthbarron
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
And to come back at the spiritrifting boss: I don't mind strong bosses, but taking some down with heroes is just impossible or u have to cheat it (wont explain how, try urself). The problem with henchies is, that THEY STAY ADJECANT to you! And if you run away from spirit rift, they will respond too late. PLZ anet, make a SCATTER button for us, or some party formation button or whatever. Or make it possible to flag ALL henchies, not just 3 + whole party.
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Deleet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
Try the green flag next to the one. It flags all.
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1. All hench.
2. 1st hero.
3. 2nd hero.
4. 3rd hero.
Some random spreading might appear due to range of weapons and casting range.
Guildmaster Cain,
You completely forgot normal pressure damage. You can't spike torment creatures, too much health for any spike that I know of. Besides, playing pressure in PvE is the easiest thing.
Guildmaster Cain
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron
Try the green flag next to the one. It flags all.
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HolyHawk
We faced a eurospike after these changes, and honestelly, saw no change at all. We were running an agressive split, 4/4 teams, focusing mobility, so no things like infuse. Guess which map they chose. Seriouslly, remove jade isle. Burning is acceptable, jade is idiotic. At first I thought Wastrel's demise was unnecessary, but seeing how people just use it for spike, I would even vote for a 2 seconds activation.