[Dev Update] Razah, Questing, & You
arcanemacabre
Maybe you could give an example of an elite skill that requires hours of farming, or 100+ plat to acquire. Then I'd agree with ya.
Hell Raiser
You have to see the idea of the example. The idea is Move>Talk>Work>Talk>Work>Accept (for Razah it would be to go to GoM, talk to the guy, work for the gems, give the guy the gems, complete the quest, accept reward. For an Elite Skill it would be moving to the area the skill is, working through the area, work to kill the boss, accept reward [cap elite]). People were saying that it should be be Move>Talk>Work>Accept (as in, go to GoM, talk to the guy, complete the quest, accept reward. Skipping some of the work.)
The Ernada
I remember when people gave the same argument about elite skills being for the elite only when certain bosses only spawned randomly and you could only cap their skills when they were still alive making it a MAJOR pain to cap some elites.
If games were made based on what these "elitists" wanted, we'd have to type in a 1400 digit password just to log into the game.
If games were made based on what these "elitists" wanted, we'd have to type in a 1400 digit password just to log into the game.
Exoudeous
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
You have to see the idea of the example. The idea is Move>Talk>Work>Talk>Work>Accept (for Razah it would be to go to GoM, talk to the guy, work for the gems, give the guy the gems, complete the quest, accept reward. For an Elite Skill it would be moving to the area the skill is, working through the area, work to kill the boss, accept reward [cap elite]). People were saying that it should be be Move>Talk>Work>Accept (as in, go to GoM, talk to the guy, complete the quest, accept reward. Skipping some of the work.)
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elite skills, you buy a cap sig, you go and find the boss, kill it, and cap skill.
razah you go through 4 maps hoping the gems will drop, and if not, you have to complete the quest to get a guaranted gem. this taking maybe a week of time unless you only sit at home playing video games, and thats again, if you are lucky, if you are not lucky you have to farm over and over till you can get enough to buy the gems. and then once you have the gems, you still have to clear a map to get to razah. so how is that like getting an elite?
the gems being the whole point. 1 its hard to get a group to go through the areas unless you are in a good guild or get lucky and find a pug that shows some teamwork. if you cnat, you are forced to pay alot of gold to get the gems. not quest in the game requires you to have 80k.
Akshara
Exoudeous... just let it go. Most everyone gets what you're saying. Hell Raiser's fuzzy logic makes about as much sense as my character under the effects of Spiritual Possession. This discussion could keeping circling around for another ten pages, with no resolution.
The bottom line is that Anet recognizes that Razah's acquisition isn't balanced as it stands, and is changing the quest to reflect this.
"Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!"
The bottom line is that Anet recognizes that Razah's acquisition isn't balanced as it stands, and is changing the quest to reflect this.
"Gort! Klaatu barada nikto!"
explodemyheart
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
/sigh... Once again you fail to see that it is an example, not the exact same thing. As I said: A to B (B being the hardest part) talk to C. I fail see how it is "horrible and out of place." when the idea remains the same. Are you just not seeing the idea?
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The point that Exoudeous is trying to make is that elite skills are not hard to obtain. You do not have to pay large sums of money, you do not have to grind for hours. You can achieve them through normal gameplay with very little money spent. You cannot do that for Razah.
Like I said, I understand where you're trying to go with the analogy. You can still achieve a certain goal, such as complete a mission, with a non-elite counterpart for a certain skill just like you can use Olias set as a ritualist instead of having Razah but here is where your analogy fails: if I want an effect like Heal Party or Light of Deliverance, I should be able to have both and choose which to use and when. If I want to be able to have a ritualist hero, I should be able to have Olias and Razah and I should be able to choose which to use. Razah is not special in any way other than he is the only ritualist hero. But so is Norgu as a mesmer and Zenmai as an Assassin and they're both so easily obtainable it's ridiculous. If I want to be able to use Razah as he is a more effective ritualist than Olias, then I should be able to do so without having to either spend 100k or hours upon hours completing quests. If you're going to compare the two, then Razah should be as easily obtained as capping an elite skill.
All of that aside, most of the complaints I have seen since people first discovered where Razah was, what he was, and how to obtain him have not been "it's too hard" but rather, "it's disproportionate". Disproportionate is entirely correct. If he had been the variable hero, I assure you that you would have seen a lot less complaining because a variable hero is special.
To suggest that the only reason that Anet changed it was because people complained and that if no one had, they would have never changed it, well... I'm not even sure what to say about that.
Hell Raiser
Gotta miss refund points too, huh?
Alright let's let it go, last time I will post here.
Wrong, it's hard to get a group to go through the areas if you don't have time. It requires more time than anything to do DoA, which I agree is terrible. However, you do not need more than 20min a day to make 80k (yeah it may take a week or more, but if you really want him...).
Yeah so let's eliminate the work that the majority doesn't want to do. That's exactly what I was talking about!
Exactly, and since when has the minority not been able to say what they want? I know the change is coming, I know I can't stop it. I am simply stating my opinion (would have stopped with my first post, but I seem to be one hell of an ass hole to attract so much hate toward my opinion)
Alright let's let it go, last time I will post here.
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Originally Posted by Exoudeous
1 its hard to get a group to go through the areas unless you are in a good guild or get lucky and find a pug that shows some teamwork.
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Originally Posted by Exoudeous
The quest is just to get IN to where you do the quest to do razah. you still have a bunch of work to do without getting the gems.
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Originally Posted by Akshara
Those who want the change are in the majority, those who don't are in the minority.
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Hell Raiser
Ok yes I realize I said that my last post would the the last...
I don't believe ArenaNet would have changed it had people not complained. They did not change it solely on the fact that people complained, but rather people complaining showed them that it was flawed (which I agree with, the original design was flawed). I'm fine with knowing the quest is flawed, I just don't like seeing people complaining about it being too hard.
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
To suggest that the only reason that Anet changed it was because people complained and that if no one had, they would have never changed it, well... I'm not even sure what to say about that.
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Exoudeous
so you admit that the quest has a problem, but its not ok for people to complain about it? wow, and you dont get why people dont understand what you are saying
Hell Raiser
The quest has a problem, it is flawed. The flaw is not "too hard"... and I never said it was. I didn't say "I just don't like seeing people complaining." I said "I just don't like seeing people complaining about it being too hard." It is not too hard, the flaw was creating it so that it required money or time (now see imo, money is not hard to get, so it is very different than being too hard.). Yeah I realize what I say probably makes no sense to you.
arcanemacabre
AFAIK, no one was complaining about it just because it was too hard. They were complaining because it was comparitively too hard. As in, it shouldn't have been as hard as it was for just another hero, and one that isn't special or elite, but rather unique.
Hell Raiser
Um sorry, but I have heard many people complaining about it being too hard (ie they don't have enough time or money to complete the quest).
explodemyheart
3 posts after you said you were done and you're still going. I don't know about anybody else, but I'm rather amused.
Anyway, like I said and like arcanemacabre just said with different words... disproportionate. As in disproportionately hard. He is nothing special aside from the fact that he is the only hero of his profession. But again, like I said, so is Norgu and Zenmai and their quests are easily and quickly achievable.
I agree with Exoudeous wholeheartedly. You agree that the way he is achieved is flawed, yet you're annoyed that people complain about it. You make absolutely no sense and personally, I suggest that you quit before you finish digging your hole.
Anyway, like I said and like arcanemacabre just said with different words... disproportionate. As in disproportionately hard. He is nothing special aside from the fact that he is the only hero of his profession. But again, like I said, so is Norgu and Zenmai and their quests are easily and quickly achievable.
I agree with Exoudeous wholeheartedly. You agree that the way he is achieved is flawed, yet you're annoyed that people complain about it. You make absolutely no sense and personally, I suggest that you quit before you finish digging your hole.
Hell Raiser
Glad I amuse you. I realize I did say I wasn't going to post, however, a few posts sparked my interest. Do you have a problem with that, or are you actually trying to insult me?
There is a difference between being flawed and hard. It should not have required money to complete the quest, however it was not too hard. I saw people complaining about it being too hard, not just being harder. Still don't make sense?
There is a difference between being flawed and hard. It should not have required money to complete the quest, however it was not too hard. I saw people complaining about it being too hard, not just being harder. Still don't make sense?
explodemyheart
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
There is a difference between being flawed and hard. It should not have required money to complete the quest, however it was not too hard.
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
I saw people complaining about it being too hard, not just being harder. Still don't make sense?
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Either way, why in the hell do you even care? If it was flawed in the first place and you agree that it was flawed, arguing that people complaining about an obvious (and admitted) oversight is just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Hell Raiser
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
There isn't always a difference. A flaw can make something hard, it can also make something easier. Hard is also a fairly relative term, so just because you do not think something is hard does not mean that it is not for everybody.
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
Either way, why in the hell do you even care? If it was flawed in the first place and you agree that it was flawed, arguing that people complaining about an obvious (and admitted) oversight is just arguing for the sake of arguing.
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
So I saw people that suggested it was disproportionate, rather than just plain hard. What's your point? That there's two sides to every issue? Congratulations, that's something most people learned about in grade school.
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The Ernada
Just give it up, Hell Raiser. Basically it's just you arguing with everyone else in this thread. No matter what you argue this update won't be changed and most people are happy about that. The fact that you already have Razah and arguing about this borders on trolling.
Angel Netherborn
Yay!!! Now I don't have to go get those gems anymore.
Dmitry
Question: when is this update coming to life?
jbwarrior
is it just me, or what else?
I went back to abbadon's gate ---> NO quest giver when you have completed finding a pupose.... please help me on this one
tnx
I went back to abbadon's gate ---> NO quest giver when you have completed finding a pupose.... please help me on this one
tnx
Exoudeous
they have not updated it yet
jbwarrior
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Originally Posted by Exoudeous
they have not updated it yet
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Do you know when the update will come?
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by jbwarrior
o... that explains a lot
Do you know when the update will come? |
Akshara
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
And, last bit of good news, we believe this update will be live in a couple of weeks. |
MSecorsky
Hell Raiser and Razah, sitting in a tree
K I S S I N G
... Seriously dude, you need to let go. You still will have Razah and can pride in how you got him. Odds are that you'll never be in a pug with me while we're both bringing Razah, so you'll never have to see mine or wonder how I got him. Relax. It affects nothing on your gameplay, and makes mine better. Plus, you get gems back. It's a win/win situation.
Never look a gift horse in the arse. That's where they shoot from.
K I S S I N G
... Seriously dude, you need to let go. You still will have Razah and can pride in how you got him. Odds are that you'll never be in a pug with me while we're both bringing Razah, so you'll never have to see mine or wonder how I got him. Relax. It affects nothing on your gameplay, and makes mine better. Plus, you get gems back. It's a win/win situation.
Never look a gift horse in the arse. That's where they shoot from.
cthulhu reborn
I am very happy with this 
Let's not forget that you still have to finish the game as such before you can even get the quest. So it is still a sign of that, which is saying enough I think. Now instead of getting Razah for 3 of my characters all 12 can go get him
Let's not forget that you still have to finish the game as such before you can even get the quest. So it is still a sign of that, which is saying enough I think. Now instead of getting Razah for 3 of my characters all 12 can go get him
frany-ce
it does'nt work by me.. i try but it does'nt work...
i at the quest.. but when i go to milzesh keeper he asked me for the gems and he do not want let me go in.. to compleet the quest what can i do..
i at the quest.. but when i go to milzesh keeper he asked me for the gems and he do not want let me go in.. to compleet the quest what can i do..
MSecorsky
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Originally Posted by frany-ce
it does'nt work by me.. i try but it does'nt work...
i at the quest.. but when i go to milzesh keeper he asked me for the gems and he do not want let me go in.. to compleet the quest what can i do.. |
warpedheat101
um...i'd say wait for the update before tryin to do it
Lorden
that would help control the gem prices, and now have razah cost 75k in gems to get.
good idea
good idea
Udky
Great. A briliant idea.
Although for be geting Razah is just to be there, to have all heroes. With all the nerfs, hes practically useless in a team. Wery similar with the Assasin. Also the Dervirs is not so brilliant, especially with all the enchantment strips.
Now, adding the fact that a max 3 heroes could a player have at the time, 1 place is normally taken by the Mo (if not the hench will do or another player if available). The 2nd place, if not a MM yourself, in 90% of the time will be a MM. The remaining slot, will be either a Ranger or Warrior.
So, the Rit, is just a fancy add w/o any real added value. Sometimes Para helps, but that was nerfed also, so not too much help.
Now, EOTN will bring 10 new heros. So what? You'll still have only three slots available. In fact, only one considering that mainly you keep the MM and Mo with you most of the times. What news stuff can bring one of the new heros to make them find a place in the party I wonder. But this is another story.
Regarding Razah, is a good idea to implement this system. I will take it and I doubt that I would ever use it, with any of my characters.
Although for be geting Razah is just to be there, to have all heroes. With all the nerfs, hes practically useless in a team. Wery similar with the Assasin. Also the Dervirs is not so brilliant, especially with all the enchantment strips.
Now, adding the fact that a max 3 heroes could a player have at the time, 1 place is normally taken by the Mo (if not the hench will do or another player if available). The 2nd place, if not a MM yourself, in 90% of the time will be a MM. The remaining slot, will be either a Ranger or Warrior.
So, the Rit, is just a fancy add w/o any real added value. Sometimes Para helps, but that was nerfed also, so not too much help.
Now, EOTN will bring 10 new heros. So what? You'll still have only three slots available. In fact, only one considering that mainly you keep the MM and Mo with you most of the times. What news stuff can bring one of the new heros to make them find a place in the party I wonder. But this is another story.
Regarding Razah, is a good idea to implement this system. I will take it and I doubt that I would ever use it, with any of my characters.
Exoudeous
if you think rits are usless then you need to try more builds. I got razah set up so he is better at healing then mo heros.
elsalamandra
Excellent
I got Razah for my necro after doing some farming in stygian and foundry and getting the gems.
This is a very nice gesture from ANET.
Thanks
I got Razah for my necro after doing some farming in stygian and foundry and getting the gems.
This is a very nice gesture from ANET.
Thanks
nbajammer
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Originally Posted by Udky
Although for be geting Razah is just to be there, to have all heroes. With all the nerfs, hes practically useless in a team. Wery similar with the Assasin.
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NekoZ
*sigh* Lame..
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by NekoZ
*sigh* Lame..
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XvArchonvX
I like the fact that Gaile actually takes the time to write about upcoming updates here and all, but I'm still waiting for the update on bow skills and pet controls that was announced a long time ago. =/
jbwarrior
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Originally Posted by Udky
Great. A briliant idea.
Now, EOTN will bring 10 new heros. So what? You'll still have only three slots available. In fact, only one considering that mainly you keep the MM and Mo with you most of the times. What news stuff can bring one of the new heros to make them find a place in the party I wonder. But this is another story. |
What also is said in the interview (in the BNL version), heroes and hench are not that good as real players (the player has to choose what they want), so... I still prefer real players.
minex
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Originally Posted by Exoudeous
if you think rits are usless then you need to try more builds. I got razah set up so he is better at healing then mo heros.
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Mitchel
Yay just like when they told acces to Factions Elite Areas would be improved! We can get Razah on weekend events for free!