Most of the PVE complaints are ridiculous. When some of you are crying about how Soul Reaping is now destroyed for your Rt/N (SR broken for a rit? No kidding?) or how AOE is now useless because killing monsters all at the same time under 5 seconds is pointless because you only get energy from SR once (dead monsters are pointless?) then it clearly says you dont have a clue to what you're talking about.
And Ensign is correct. When was the last time you ever heard a discussion on skill balance by PVE'ers except to complain how weak a skill is? You never complain about overpowered skills because you clearly want everything overpowered. And when something is less than "uber" it's suddenly deemed as "useless" Paragons are useless in PVE? Huh?
And finally, the SR changes arent even in the game yet! You can't possibly know for sure how it works in action. But then again, I doubt that matters. You've already made up your minds to hating the change.
Hell, the AOE change a while back was deemed as "destroying" PVE as well yet we still have just as many PVE players playing today. And complaining. I have played all 3 campaigns with multiple characters and have not once noticed how PVE was destroyed. Adapt or die people.
[Dev Update] Skill Balances for Early April
The Ernada
Keithark
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Master Ketsu
You dont PvP.
Dont make suggestions for PvP. Making it so only 1 class per group was allowed would cause mass cookie cutters. Maybe no more then 5 of the same class per team would be ok, but max of 1 would ruin everything. |
ensoriki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
Most of the PVE complaints are ridiculous. When some of you are crying about how Soul Reaping is now destroyed for your Rt/N (SR broken for a rit? No kidding?) or how AOE is now useless because killing monsters all at the same time under 5 seconds is pointless because you only get energy from SR once (dead monsters are pointless?) then it clearly says you dont have a clue to what you're talking about.
And Ensign is correct. When was the last time you ever heard a discussion on skill balance by PVE'ers except to complain how weak a skill is? You never complain about overpowered skills because you clearly want everything overpowered. And when something is less than "uber" it's suddenly deemed as "useless" Paragons are useless in PVE? Huh? And finally, the SR changes arent even in the game yet! You can't possibly know for sure how it works in action. But then again, I doubt that matters. You've already made up your minds to hating the change. Hell, the AOE change a while back was deemed as "destroying" PVE as well yet we still have just as many PVE players playing today. And complaining. I have played all 3 campaigns with multiple characters and have not once noticed how PVE was destroyed. Adapt or die people. |
MM- Who wants other classes when a MM is equal to damn two, make other classes on equal footing with them, so MM's just provide meat tanks and we can do some real damage.
Something Flames: Nerf that please, the damn boss in Dasha vestuble killed goren lol ^.^.
(This is mostly a joke....but it is kinda annoying in pve)
Meditation of the reaper
Raise Damage up a bit please, make it you have to deal like 200 more damage, punish those who mess wit the reaper.
tomcruisejr
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
.. When was the last time you ever heard a discussion on skill balance by PVE'ers except to complain how weak a skill is? You never complain about overpowered skills because you clearly want everything overpowered. And when something is less than "uber" it's suddenly deemed as "useless"
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In other words, there are no overpowered skills in PvE but only good skills for farming and bad skills for RA.
ensoriki
There are substantially Underpowered skills in pve
There are substantially Over powered builds (mm) Ya they require A death first but the whole train can make an assassin feel unneeded Basically all you need for pve now is just
1 searing flames maybe 2 eles
1 maybe 2 monks
a mm -_- maybe 2 if its a split like eternal grove.
There are substantially Over powered builds (mm) Ya they require A death first but the whole train can make an assassin feel unneeded Basically all you need for pve now is just
1 searing flames maybe 2 eles
1 maybe 2 monks
a mm -_- maybe 2 if its a split like eternal grove.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by tomcruisejr
There are no strong benchmarks that can be used to determine skills are overpowered in PvE, unlike in PvP. You may say the influx of gold in PvE, yea but who cares about gold. Is gold a basis of overpowered-ness? You should ask yourself "Did the PvE AI crash coz skills are overpowered?" or "Did the AI suddenly complained?". Yea, it's exaggeration for the purpose of getting the point.
In other words, there are no overpowered skills in PvE but only good skills for farming and bad skills for RA. |
While monsters use static builds, overpowered skills can still emerge in PvE.
Theres a line between an effective build, and a build that takes little effort to slaughter the whole map.
Praetor
GG all necros.
Master Ketsu
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Originally Posted by Keithark
No but I play lots of PvE and get affected by stupid "balances" and the broken favor system so I got as much (probably more) right than you to comment on it
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Lets take a look at monster AI:
AI Monks: No understanding of degen, rarely heal when needed. Timing sucks. Will let poisoned foes die if they arent also recieving direct damage. Havew no understanding of hexes other then that its a hex.
AI Melee fighters: Can be constantly pulled around since they prioritize sticking to their pathways. All it takes is some analyzing and you can cause them to run back and forth till they die. A paragon could do it easily, a ranger could do it easily, ANY ranged class can do it easily. Even with the updates its still extremely easy to use AoE to manipulate how they act.
AI Damage spellcasters: No understanding of hexes, their bars always suck and are mostly easily interupted. Useless skills with even more useless timing. Rarely spikes. No understanding of conditions other then that they are conditions.
AI rangers: Can interupt. Cant do anything else. Blind = lol.
AI mesmers/Hex spellcasters: No understanding of hex combos other then 1-2 if thats all they have in their bar. Can interupt. Cant do anything else. Mostly useless bars.
If you cant figure out how to make a good build with a paragon in it after PvP nerfs, thats your problem. Go PvP for 3 moths or so, then you will realize just how easy you have it and pve will feel like childs play no matter what you run.
tomcruisejr
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
If a class can tank end game enemies, go afk, and come back and still be tanking, then you have an overpowered skill.
While monsters use static builds, overpowered skills can still emerge in PvE. Theres a line between an effective build, and a build that takes little effort to slaughter the whole map. |
BenjZee
not bad, decreased hp bonus on avater of malandru is dissapointing though. im pleased about spike trap because ive now made a spike trapper also the good news on minion skills as ive finished making my mm.
I never knew Anthem of Flame/ Theyre on fire affected other things anyway. there my favourite paragon skills ever.
I never knew Anthem of Flame/ Theyre on fire affected other things anyway. there my favourite paragon skills ever.
Zeph
I guess this could actually be the start of hard mode... Nerf so many skills/professions that you get owned in PVE by mantrid hatchlings.
Hence - hard mode.
Here are some of the skill changes we can expect in the new hard mode...
Warrior
Power Attack - For 3....5 seconds, you shake your fist at target enemy and look at them in a aggressive manner. This skill ends if you look a little too aggressive or even think about attacking.
Necro
Suffering - For 2....15 seconds, target foe becomes a bit poorly and feels a little under the weather.
Elementalist
Fireball - You throw a lit match at target foe. If target foe is feeling under the weather, the match lands on his hand and give him a nasty burn of 3...9 damage.
Ranger
Sundering Attack - Flick a elastic band at target foe. If this hits target foe in the eye, target foe is blinded for 2 seconds.
Monk
Mend Ailment - You apply a band-aid to target ally, if target ally is feeling under the weather or suffering from a nasty burn, a band-aid with a cartoon motif is used instead.
Mark my words, it's heading that way.
Hence - hard mode.
Here are some of the skill changes we can expect in the new hard mode...
Warrior
Power Attack - For 3....5 seconds, you shake your fist at target enemy and look at them in a aggressive manner. This skill ends if you look a little too aggressive or even think about attacking.
Necro
Suffering - For 2....15 seconds, target foe becomes a bit poorly and feels a little under the weather.
Elementalist
Fireball - You throw a lit match at target foe. If target foe is feeling under the weather, the match lands on his hand and give him a nasty burn of 3...9 damage.
Ranger
Sundering Attack - Flick a elastic band at target foe. If this hits target foe in the eye, target foe is blinded for 2 seconds.
Monk
Mend Ailment - You apply a band-aid to target ally, if target ally is feeling under the weather or suffering from a nasty burn, a band-aid with a cartoon motif is used instead.
Mark my words, it's heading that way.
vdz
Soul Reaping: functionality changed so that you may only gain Energy from Soul Reaping every 5 seconds.
GG destroying my necro
GG destroying my necro
Helcaraxe
great..... yet another mesmer nerf..... what's next?
Wait, I see it now
Ineptitude: Increased recharge to 30 seconds, Decresed damage to 15...60, Decresed Blind duration to 1...5
Because this skill is so imbalanced every mesmer is using it now because we nerfed every other skill and its the only one left that is actually good. Now our work will be complete with the nerfing of this skill.
And then in the same update we will probably see an Ele buff.
Flare: Increased damage to 60...160
Eles needed a better spammable damage skill, yes the eles are hurting really bad right now.
/sarcasm
Wait, I see it now
Ineptitude: Increased recharge to 30 seconds, Decresed damage to 15...60, Decresed Blind duration to 1...5
Because this skill is so imbalanced every mesmer is using it now because we nerfed every other skill and its the only one left that is actually good. Now our work will be complete with the nerfing of this skill.
And then in the same update we will probably see an Ele buff.
Flare: Increased damage to 60...160
Eles needed a better spammable damage skill, yes the eles are hurting really bad right now.
/sarcasm
DvM
imo the mesmer aint nerfed that hard...its only more difficult to play
ontopic, nice update, nice features, 2 bad there is error 40 now like..forever...
ontopic, nice update, nice features, 2 bad there is error 40 now like..forever...
BassVII
Too...much...complaining...
Seriously, why can't there be a topic here where nobody whines?
I for one am happy for the SR nerf
My necro is by far my favorite character, but it ends up eventually becoming a bore of spamming skills with unlimited energy...at least to me. Now, it actually takes skill to play a necro right, look forward to this, it is much harder to play a necro now, therefore it is more of a challenge, which for me equals more fun.
Anyone know what the tournament NPC in the gh's are for? *probably missed it on the updates page*
Seriously, why can't there be a topic here where nobody whines?
I for one am happy for the SR nerf
My necro is by far my favorite character, but it ends up eventually becoming a bore of spamming skills with unlimited energy...at least to me. Now, it actually takes skill to play a necro right, look forward to this, it is much harder to play a necro now, therefore it is more of a challenge, which for me equals more fun.
Anyone know what the tournament NPC in the gh's are for? *probably missed it on the updates page*
Tristan Dark
Being a rather avid Paragon fan, I am considerably disappointed that they castrated the profession again.
There was a particular combination I liked to use with Shields Up and now that that has been nerfed (for the totally wrong reason), it's going to make them even less usable than before.
Paragons need a re-buff. Stand Your Ground shouldn't cost 15 energy. Have the shouts work on non-spirit allies if the spirit attacks are the problem. Or just get PvE and PvP versions of the skills, separate it for good, and end the needs to nerf PvE skills for PvP reasons.
There was a particular combination I liked to use with Shields Up and now that that has been nerfed (for the totally wrong reason), it's going to make them even less usable than before.
Paragons need a re-buff. Stand Your Ground shouldn't cost 15 energy. Have the shouts work on non-spirit allies if the spirit attacks are the problem. Or just get PvE and PvP versions of the skills, separate it for good, and end the needs to nerf PvE skills for PvP reasons.
Lonk
One question, will Soul Reaping trigger off of it's own nerf death?
Just joking, but seriously that doesn't sound too bad, and the decreased energy for horrors is great, now I'll actually consider using vamp horrors in my build.
Just joking, but seriously that doesn't sound too bad, and the decreased energy for horrors is great, now I'll actually consider using vamp horrors in my build.
FeroxC
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMm
As a pve paragon i loaded up GW and watched it downloading the update i thought ATLAST they must of buffed my useless character so he can atleast pull his weight in groups.
But no, slapped with even more nerfs ! i seriously i cant believe it. I wish anet would stop observing pvp and look what theyve done to paragon in PVE for 5 minutes.
As a pve paragon i loaded up GW and watched it downloading the update i thought ATLAST they must of buffed my useless character so he can atleast pull his weight in groups.
But no, slapped with even more nerfs ! i seriously i cant believe it. I wish anet would stop observing pvp and look what theyve done to paragon in PVE for 5 minutes.
Azaril000
To be honest, They should of just done the soul reaping nerf, with energy every 5 seconds, but increased the net energy gained of a player death, like 25%-50% base increase WITH the current SR level, so 10SR would gain 12ish energy (base increase of 25%) or 15 energy (base increase of 50%), I would settle quite happily with the latter tbh 
. Everyones happy
. Everyones happy
Legendary Shiz
I like the soul reaping nerf. I would have liked it much more if it would have just not be affected by spirits, but I don't think that this nerf is going to be the "be all end all" for necros. The nerfs on price was unneeded though, same with spirit.
And everybody says that mesmers get shafted every time, though I do think they get the worse end of the stick a lot of times they don't get ruined every update. Last update they buffed MoR, which is why they had to nerf skills now. Diversion is still very usable, it just takes an ounce of skill now.
And everybody says that mesmers get shafted every time, though I do think they get the worse end of the stick a lot of times they don't get ruined every update. Last update they buffed MoR, which is why they had to nerf skills now. Diversion is still very usable, it just takes an ounce of skill now.
Katrina Sandstorm
Wow nice skill updates, they have really made mesmers more effective in PvE!
Good job! Keep up the good work!
Good job! Keep up the good work!
lacasner
I wish they did a little bit more skill updating imo, like that one week where Anet did a bunch of changes, they are archived here on guru.
Evilsod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
If a class can tank end game enemies, go afk, and come back and still be tanking, then you have an overpowered skill.
While monsters use static builds, overpowered skills can still emerge in PvE. Theres a line between an effective build, and a build that takes little effort to slaughter the whole map. |
For the record, End-game enemies means jack shit, the damage is the same to prot spirit. You suggesting we nerf that? Or perhaps Spellbreaker?
Start thinking before you try to make a point like that.
Messner
Forgot one update note:
Heroes' Ascent
-You can't load teh Underworlds without crashing!!! LOLPWNT
Heroes' Ascent
-You can't load teh Underworlds without crashing!!! LOLPWNT
lacasner
I think its not enough just to modify a few problem skills or such, counter balances and fixes must be made for the effects to be noticable i think.
Kaida the Heartless
EvilSod: He's talking about a character tanking these things solo. The end game enemies arn't strong enough (or lack enough variety) to be able to stop these builds from occuring. From another point of view, the character's skills are so strong that it makes the enemies seem weak. Follow?
Now that Soul Reaping has been a lil balanced, wtb Jagged Bones @ 5 seconds again
Then again... Animate Bone Fiend @ 15 energy would be great as well...
Who cares if it's broken? Hehe.
I'm just going to miss the double gain when a Shambling dies in a capped army :/
Now that Soul Reaping has been a lil balanced, wtb Jagged Bones @ 5 seconds again
Then again... Animate Bone Fiend @ 15 energy would be great as well...
Who cares if it's broken? Hehe.
I'm just going to miss the double gain when a Shambling dies in a capped army :/
berlioz7
Well I just tried out my Olias MM hero and hes basically crippled. He was always out of energy and could only keep a few minions alive at a time.
Raxxman
anyone else getting a lot of crashing?
and why nerf Quivering Blade? it was already the runt of faction sword elites
and why nerf Quivering Blade? it was already the runt of faction sword elites
Grammar
Echo-SS with Awaken the Blood and Reckless Haste (also nerfed) is pretty much dead in the water at this point, even with Sig of Lost Souls. 
This nerf hurts PvE SS necros more than anything else. It actually damn near kills them all together.
EDIT: While I'm here, my take on the ZB nerf....
They nerfed the wrong aspect of ZB. If anything made it overpowered, it's the self-targeting ability. Changing it to "target other ally" would be the correct nerf.
The funny thing is, I may just want to keep my mouth shut on this, because I think my ZB monk might prefer the current incorrect nerf to the correct one...
This nerf hurts PvE SS necros more than anything else. It actually damn near kills them all together.
EDIT: While I'm here, my take on the ZB nerf....
They nerfed the wrong aspect of ZB. If anything made it overpowered, it's the self-targeting ability. Changing it to "target other ally" would be the correct nerf.
The funny thing is, I may just want to keep my mouth shut on this, because I think my ZB monk might prefer the current incorrect nerf to the correct one...
Elena
you set youre MoW wrong then
i'm taking advantage of the lowering off Animate Bone Horor and Animate Vampiric Horror to sustain my army with the strong backbone off Shambling Horrors i do good and my army marches forever forward into the setting sun!
also signet of uhh forgot what but it gives energy when enemy is under 50% health helps
i'm taking advantage of the lowering off Animate Bone Horor and Animate Vampiric Horror to sustain my army with the strong backbone off Shambling Horrors i do good and my army marches forever forward into the setting sun!
also signet of uhh forgot what but it gives energy when enemy is under 50% health helps
berlioz7
Why should I have to change my build and put in rinky dink minions now? I have a build I like with bone fiends and thats what Im going to stay with.
derainault
Nice to see the durations raised for the avatars. Being the core of many dervish builds, the previously lowered durations didn't seem nearly long enough to carry the build through its motions, especially with a 2 minute cycle between uses.
Daddy likes...nice work, ANet
Daddy likes...nice work, ANet
Oggy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by berlioz7
Well I just tried out my Olias MM hero and hes basically crippled. He was always out of energy and could only keep a few minions alive at a time.
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Edit: Anyone else reminded of the first AoE nerf with all the fire eles saying that they'll never be useful again?
fripple
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Oggy
Dunno what you're doing then. Mine was fine.
Edit: Anyone else reminded of the first AoE nerf with all the fire eles saying that they'll never be useful again? |
Moebius Blossom assassins ftw.
seut
Now that a PRIMARY attribute got sacrificed on the altar of pvp balance, can we get our old Verrata's Sacrifice back and maybe remove the minion cap?
A primary attribute is supposed to be the backbone of a profession. You broke it because of exploiting gimmicks. Necros roll around in wheelchairs through pve now. (yes this is e-drama, but apparently Anet needs another "vocal minority" incident to wake up. Thus: ANET you <insert insult that put you in jail, if you say it to a police officer>)
A primary attribute is supposed to be the backbone of a profession. You broke it because of exploiting gimmicks. Necros roll around in wheelchairs through pve now. (yes this is e-drama, but apparently Anet needs another "vocal minority" incident to wake up. Thus: ANET you <insert insult that put you in jail, if you say it to a police officer>)
Kali Magdalene
I posted more details in other threads, but basically:
I found that Master of Whispers, with no Signet of Lost Souls, running Bone Fiend, Shambling Horror, and Bone Golem, was able to raise and maintain a full army with little difficulty. I was using one of my pre-nerf hero MM builds.
Also, my SS build worked fine.
I found that Master of Whispers, with no Signet of Lost Souls, running Bone Fiend, Shambling Horror, and Bone Golem, was able to raise and maintain a full army with little difficulty. I was using one of my pre-nerf hero MM builds.
Also, my SS build worked fine.
Kali Magdalene
I posted more details in other threads, but basically:
I found that Master of Whispers, with no Signet of Lost Souls, running Bone Fiend, Shambling Horror, and Bone Golem, was able to raise and maintain a full army with little difficulty. I was using one of my pre-nerf hero MM builds.
Also, my SS build worked fine.
I found that Master of Whispers, with no Signet of Lost Souls, running Bone Fiend, Shambling Horror, and Bone Golem, was able to raise and maintain a full army with little difficulty. I was using one of my pre-nerf hero MM builds.
Also, my SS build worked fine.
Mari Wolfe
Played my nec a bit after the changes went in. For MM my old builds are just a bit slower getting a full army up due to energy constraints. But with modification and replacing my utility skill with sig of lost souls it is actualy more powerfull as vamp horrors are now viable.
A lot of people have been commenting about paragons have kept getting nerfed and are unplayable in PvE. I;ve found with decent skill selection they are still very usefull.
Regards to W I am abit upset about Sheilds Up but the other changes more than compensate for it in such a way I would have droped Sheilds Up from my standard PvE buil weather it was nerfed or not. LOL I am realy loving crip slash now.
A lot of people have been commenting about paragons have kept getting nerfed and are unplayable in PvE. I;ve found with decent skill selection they are still very usefull.
Regards to W I am abit upset about Sheilds Up but the other changes more than compensate for it in such a way I would have droped Sheilds Up from my standard PvE buil weather it was nerfed or not. LOL I am realy loving crip slash now.
X Salvation X
Soul reapings been nerfed? Not the best news I've heard but I guess it could be worse. At least they lowered the animation energy costs.
Nadia Roark
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Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz
I like the soul reaping nerf. I would have liked it much more if it would have just not be affected by spirits, but I don't think that this nerf is going to be the "be all end all" for necros. The nerfs on price was unneeded though, same with spirit.
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I honestly cannot understand why ANet refuses to end SR on spirits. This would preserve the PvE MM functionality and would end the ridiculous (PvP) SR abuse that we've seen in one fell swoop.
Evidently, there must be a missing variable. I refuse to believe that ending SR on spirits hasn't crossed their minds--since it's the easiest and most straightforward fix to a broken PvP mechanic that still keeps PvE MM builds viable. The SR "fix" as it appears right now seems a bit heavy-handed for PvE; and may or may not fix necro healers in HA. I guess I'm about to find out.