i've had 3 dervs.
the first i beat NF with day two of it being out. he had all black ancient, and he was.. meh in pve. i thought maybe i was using bad skills. apparently i was using a darn good build, because its really popular to this day. he was practically dwarfed by all my other characters. i deleted him after realizing i just wouldnt play him at all. i made 2 more since then, one for the 130 build, which couldnt touch my warrior when it came to farming, and the 3rd cause i was bored... all deleted. maybe its not my playing style or something, but this is the major turn off.. enchantments..
can anyone say paladin??
or worse yet.. healing hands wammo??
i remember when nooby dudes playing warrior would have both riposte and healing hands/mending, and people would mock them, but melee really couldnt kill them. now trust me, i know how lame they are, im not defending them, but any good caster can kill a derv, and most good warriors, or a sin that has his upper hand, wins on a derv.
to make a long story short..
i was in ra.. i saw at least 50 dervs there. every team i had had one or two in them, and worse than that, they couldnt deal damage, and healed NON stop. all that is to me is a HHs wannabe paladin wammo. total garbage for the team.
so i wrote the first part of each dervs name down, to keep track of how many i saw/died..
43 dervs died, 39 of which had monks.. pretty good monks. 10 of which had monks/healers that werent so good...
i only played 50 matches..
what does that say for the class?? or at least the community of players? now i know warriors have some nooby dudes playing them, but they've been around since the dawn of gws.. so they kinda have an excuse.
im not bashing dervs.. just wondering how they can get away with nothing but healing, pathetic spiking, moderate pressure that any class could apply, and the occasional luck kill, and not be called a bad class??
this was the breaker for me..
today i was in ra.. two dervs were left, i had died because we had no healer (i was thumping), and our derv and theirs went toe to toe. i thought, "oh cool, maybe i'll get to see some sweet damage, or maybe a spike!"... no..
just the worst, lamest healfight EVER. it went on for about 10 minutes until one of them said.... i still cant get over this... "dervishes are so invincible, we cant even kill each other!!".. WHAT!?!?! and then everyone else agreed minus their monk! so finally, the opposing teams monk says.. "i only stayed to see how pathetic this fight could get. dervishes are garbage." and left.
im sorry dervs. please post some help/tips or SOMETHING as to what makes you a viable class to this community. the builds out right now are too .. well.. they suck. warriors outclass you, antimelee/spells/daze/and enchant removal own you.. where do you shine??? avatars?? rangers/mesmers disrupt them.. then what? im at a loss of words for a class that just isnt as good as all the others imo.
please post your ideas on what maybe i'm seeing, or if you better dervishes know of some secret GOOD dervish only location lol. like i said... i made a very statistical poll.. and they failed bad.. im not trying to be biased either. i did spend my hard earned cash on PvE dervs, and i DO know how to use them, and all the popular builds. im not saying im the best, but i'd love to be convinced that this was just bad fate/luck and maybe im wrong, please help gws community!
i still dont like them..
Mekkakat
Anarion Silverhand
Personally, I play the dervish class because it's different from the other front-line classes.
First we have the ability to hit 3 foes at the same time. To me, little axe hits on 1 foe at a time is never going to match the size of that.
Then we have the moderate tanking ability and the ability to throw out some AoE conditions.
I like the dervish because of its versatility, when I'm tired of running a damage build using attack skills, I can always go mystic sandstorm and party support for some nice AoE damage, along with some decent heals.
First we have the ability to hit 3 foes at the same time. To me, little axe hits on 1 foe at a time is never going to match the size of that.
Then we have the moderate tanking ability and the ability to throw out some AoE conditions.
I like the dervish because of its versatility, when I'm tired of running a damage build using attack skills, I can always go mystic sandstorm and party support for some nice AoE damage, along with some decent heals.
Shuuda
I do like Dervishs and wouldn't delete mine. Even without an IAS my Dervish has always been able to pack a high damage punch. But I'm not a fan of all them Earth healing enchantments (Mys regen etc) Natural Healing normally does the job when I wanna go Scythe spike. I'm also interested in the other things they can do, like Sandstorm spike, and healing support.
LightningHell
Dervishes are very good damage characters (and can tank if necessary, as well). Mystic Regeneration is omg hax in PvE, and you'd be stupid to think a Dervish isn't useful in PvP.
Shuuda
And lets not forget the Avatars which all provide useful in both offence and defence. Melandru and Grenth are know to be useful.
Perfected Shadow
In PVE which is what the campfire is for, Dervishes can be good damage dealers and/or tanks. Not too sure about PVP but you shouldn't generalize and say the class is crap just because Dervishes caused you some headache in RA.
Str0b0
On the rare occasions I RA with my Dervish I never have a problem dominating. Then again my preferred build is basically a blindbot on steroids. Strictly speaking in PvE dervishes take more monitoring and active managment to play than other melee classes and a lot of people find this to be tedious. I personally enjoy juggling my enchantments around and as for a competent caster...Well I can put my enchants back on faster than a caster can strip them. I've run mesmers and necros slap out of energy in RA before while they futilely tried to strip off my enchants. Between the monk desperately trying to keep blind off the warriors and the necro and mesmer trying to keep my enchants off me I had all but the ele shut down through pressure and conditions. Granted this was RA and not the most organized PvP out there but still your experience was in RA so I thought I'd share mine. So if that's useless then there must be some super effective build out there I have yet to see.
nidus
the power/crapness of dervs depends on the person playing them really.
i have a derv, but i dont heal all the time. Obviously i have a few enchants, but 2 of them are healing enchants, the others a energy management. and the rest of my skills a attack skills and a res. damage IMO is quite good.
i agree that a lot of people that play dervs simply take a load of enchants so that that can stay alive but cant do anything else, but on the other hand there are a lot of people who play dervs that know how to use the class properly and can make a significant difference to the outcome of the battle.
Theres my two cents....
i have a derv, but i dont heal all the time. Obviously i have a few enchants, but 2 of them are healing enchants, the others a energy management. and the rest of my skills a attack skills and a res. damage IMO is quite good.
i agree that a lot of people that play dervs simply take a load of enchants so that that can stay alive but cant do anything else, but on the other hand there are a lot of people who play dervs that know how to use the class properly and can make a significant difference to the outcome of the battle.
Theres my two cents....
Mickey
A dervish is just like a sin in how people play them. If you play them correctly, they can be unbelievable, if you don't, then they won't.
Crazyvietguy
I have a dervish and I love it. To me Dervishes seem more effective over longer periods of time.
Dervishes can last in a battle much longer than a Warrior can, if set up correctly. They have (basically) constant regen. They are also the ONLY melee class that can heal effectively and still provide good damage output.
Plus.. Mysticism is one of the better primaries in the game.
Dervishes can last in a battle much longer than a Warrior can, if set up correctly. They have (basically) constant regen. They are also the ONLY melee class that can heal effectively and still provide good damage output.
Plus.. Mysticism is one of the better primaries in the game.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfected Shadow
In PVE which is what the campfire is for, Dervishes can be good damage dealers and/or tanks. Not too sure about PVP but you shouldn't generalize and say the class is crap just because Dervishes caused you some headache in RA.
..i didnt generalize. i told you all i have had 3 pve dervs. i also used to run Grenth in GvG before the nerf. i play this game to learn, be fair, teach, and have fun, i'm sorry if it seems like im trying to bash the class, but i swear im not.
dervishes DO have a MUCH higher survival rate than the other melee class... but so far, they cant survive a team as well as say a warrior. usually when i play warrior in ra/ta/gvg, and have to go toe to toe with a derv, even with his healing, the monks healing him, and his team trying to hurt me, is a really one sided fight, and ends quickly in my favor. maybe they cant handle spikes that well.. any comments on that? are the enchants good, but not great against spikes or something? the heal to damage ratio seems to sluggish, and then to try to attack.. well.. you can see how its looking downhill..
AoE effects with enchants are cool, and sandstorm is too, although i've never liked any of those builds due to the conditional uses of them. the spike seemed nothing more than a slower starburst build, with less consistent damage. one thing i REALLY dont like is the avatars.. nice and all.. but the down time, and general.. meh about them.. for instance.. i play a lot of ranger/mesmer. .. i just interrupt them lol. maybe thats luck, or maybe they just werent expecting it and got too close to activate it in gvg idk.
i do love things like Reapers Sweep, and the more damage based side, paired with the powerful wind prayers, to limit the enchantments to maybe 2-3, and focus on putting the damage on the line.
OH! and i like imbue health healing. this was the only time i had ever used avatars and liked them. Melandru+imbue+dwanyas touch, and general support heals... good freaking heals.. then they nerfed melan. im sure it still works, but i rather play a melee class for some sort of damage :P
please keep explaining more on your damage output and general usage of your dervishes. i might not ever play one in pve, but at least i wont be in an uproar when my guild wants me to play one for gvg/ta/ha
..i didnt generalize. i told you all i have had 3 pve dervs. i also used to run Grenth in GvG before the nerf. i play this game to learn, be fair, teach, and have fun, i'm sorry if it seems like im trying to bash the class, but i swear im not.
dervishes DO have a MUCH higher survival rate than the other melee class... but so far, they cant survive a team as well as say a warrior. usually when i play warrior in ra/ta/gvg, and have to go toe to toe with a derv, even with his healing, the monks healing him, and his team trying to hurt me, is a really one sided fight, and ends quickly in my favor. maybe they cant handle spikes that well.. any comments on that? are the enchants good, but not great against spikes or something? the heal to damage ratio seems to sluggish, and then to try to attack.. well.. you can see how its looking downhill..
AoE effects with enchants are cool, and sandstorm is too, although i've never liked any of those builds due to the conditional uses of them. the spike seemed nothing more than a slower starburst build, with less consistent damage. one thing i REALLY dont like is the avatars.. nice and all.. but the down time, and general.. meh about them.. for instance.. i play a lot of ranger/mesmer. .. i just interrupt them lol. maybe thats luck, or maybe they just werent expecting it and got too close to activate it in gvg idk.
i do love things like Reapers Sweep, and the more damage based side, paired with the powerful wind prayers, to limit the enchantments to maybe 2-3, and focus on putting the damage on the line.
OH! and i like imbue health healing. this was the only time i had ever used avatars and liked them. Melandru+imbue+dwanyas touch, and general support heals... good freaking heals.. then they nerfed melan. im sure it still works, but i rather play a melee class for some sort of damage :P
please keep explaining more on your damage output and general usage of your dervishes. i might not ever play one in pve, but at least i wont be in an uproar when my guild wants me to play one for gvg/ta/ha
Str0b0
Well my particular build, which I use for PvP and PvE because it just works well,utilizes EDA and an ebon scythe. Generally I only use two attack skills, Victorious Sweep and Wild Blow. I always carry wildblow because it's a guranteed critical hit. Sometimes for PvP I'll swap out for Rending Sweep instead of victorious but I always keep wild blow because it's spammable and ends stances in addition to the critical. For spike protection I use watchful intervention in PvP and Faithful in PvE. Watchful in PvP because it's a quicker recast. Basically when I PvP I don't function as a prime damage dealer but I make sure to keep as many melee opponents blind for as long as possible and it keeps the monks busy removing my condition that I applied. With a spammable attack I can reapply blind as fast as Wildblow recharges. I'll use HoF for an IAS and a cover so if it get's stripped anyone near me will regret it when they burn. I also tend to use Aura of Thorns for it's AoE cripple and Bleed. Instead of Mystic Regen I tend to use Vital boon and Either conviction or Signet of pious light in PvP. In PvE it's Mystic Regen all the way. I suppose though my playstyle isn't necessarily the same as yours. Rather than going for huge damage output, I usually hit for about 120-130 on my wildblows in PvP, I prefer to break the opponent and then destroy them. In RA, which I admit is not organized or high end PvP, I can literally shut down the monk, the mesmer and/or necro and the Warrior all by myself. That's potent in and of itself right there. Sure I'm not killing people in two hits, but the conditions and pressure damage and the tendency to make mesmers and necros over extend their energy trying to strip me is just as valuable as straight damage.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
usually when i play warrior in ra/ta/gvg, and have to go toe to toe with a derv, even with his healing, the monks healing him, and his team trying to hurt me, is a really one sided fight, and ends quickly in my favor.
are u serious? honestly, i scrimmaged 3 warriors, 1v1 ofc. now they didn't exactly do much wrong, they all had the same thing in common. riposte (lol). each game went on for around 10-15mins of continuous fighting. and you say that we can't handle the spike dmg? (if you mean that came from your war) i beat all 3 of them hands down, never dropped below 50%... EDA ftw.
Mekkakat
um.. obviously the warriors werent "spiking" very well using a riposte build bro..
first meet a -good- warrior, then we can talk. not riposting. and a 1v1 match isnt really going to "prove" anything. its a team game, and i dont feel like 1v1 matches will ever show what makes what "good". : / sorry.
first meet a -good- warrior, then we can talk. not riposting. and a 1v1 match isnt really going to "prove" anything. its a team game, and i dont feel like 1v1 matches will ever show what makes what "good". : / sorry.
MBP
Mekkakat - every class has strengths and weaknesses, some more weaknesses than strengths...the Derv is one of those.
in 1v1 DvsW the Dervish will be the underdog mainly because of his armor
I would say the Derv is better at PvE than PvP and is more of a challenge to play.
It's not like you're being forced to play Dervish either...if you don't like that profession then don't play it. Talking about how much dervs stink compared to warriors and giving several reasons why you'll never use one again is kind of insulting to players that like them. The campfire sections are for helping other players use specific professions better and to encourage their usage;not to tell everyone how inferior one class is to another and discourage their use.
That's my two cents and I apologize if I made you upset.
in 1v1 DvsW the Dervish will be the underdog mainly because of his armor
I would say the Derv is better at PvE than PvP and is more of a challenge to play.
It's not like you're being forced to play Dervish either...if you don't like that profession then don't play it. Talking about how much dervs stink compared to warriors and giving several reasons why you'll never use one again is kind of insulting to players that like them. The campfire sections are for helping other players use specific professions better and to encourage their usage;not to tell everyone how inferior one class is to another and discourage their use.
That's my two cents and I apologize if I made you upset.
Anarion Silverhand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
i was in ra.. i saw at least 50 dervs there. every team i had had one or two in them, and worse than that, they couldnt deal damage, and healed NON stop. all that is to me is a HHs wannabe paladin wammo. total garbage for the team.
You can't really judge a class by looking at the RA builds used. The majority of the builds used in RA will always be non-optimal and won't be very good.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
its a team game
yet in your "toe-to-toe" you seem to think the dervish can't handle spike dmg? tbh i would think his team was to blame, if a war can be winning 1v1. even if you go wammo, the healing is not even in the same league. and well... a gd warrior? tell me what any gd warrior can do blinded every 4 secs?
Mekkakat
the ra observations were simply an example. i've beaten all of NF with my derv and had some very popular, and homemade builds. its not like i've never sat down to see the usage of them. im not bashing the class, simply disappointed that its not as good as i wish it could be, or as good as the other professions in my opinion. i know i dont have to play them, im not crazy, but i'd love to know that rerolling a pvp derv wouldnt make me feel bored and useless as it does now. when i play monk, i heal, rit, i support/heal, mesmer, tons of things, warriors kill, rangers thump/intterupt, sins spike, paragons support/spike, necro, support, and eles pressure/kill. when we gvg/ha, dervishes are never a threat, even in the backlines, they almost seem like a joke. like "oh here comes another" HEX, or BLIND. and then they run. where as the same thing would happen to me as a warrior, and i could fight right through it and take that damage/degen or lack of ability to attack with aplomb and start chopping heads after with ease. to me its like this
dervs pve=... you cant pve? who cant pve? lol.. i could probably beat the campaigns with a ele with only firestorm lol.
derv pvp= pressure. they have a good bit, but unless you have fury up, its barely moderate pressure, and unless you have grenth, stances, protective spirit, bond, ect, has you stomped. against melee, you're GOING to kill the sins, thats the least of the problem, but warriors are going to be rough on you. rangers are nasty because we interrupt those lil avatars and enchants till you have no energy. mesmer hex, disenchant, and steal energy making enchanting useless, necros can be a dervs worst nightmare, and eles will snare you or just blind you.
every class has a counter/weakness if not MORE than one, but slow attacking, enchant depending, moderate damage is just too many liabilities for me to get hooked. it seems like every class is a counter for this profession.
dervs pve=... you cant pve? who cant pve? lol.. i could probably beat the campaigns with a ele with only firestorm lol.
derv pvp= pressure. they have a good bit, but unless you have fury up, its barely moderate pressure, and unless you have grenth, stances, protective spirit, bond, ect, has you stomped. against melee, you're GOING to kill the sins, thats the least of the problem, but warriors are going to be rough on you. rangers are nasty because we interrupt those lil avatars and enchants till you have no energy. mesmer hex, disenchant, and steal energy making enchanting useless, necros can be a dervs worst nightmare, and eles will snare you or just blind you.
every class has a counter/weakness if not MORE than one, but slow attacking, enchant depending, moderate damage is just too many liabilities for me to get hooked. it seems like every class is a counter for this profession.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
yet in your "toe-to-toe" you seem to think the dervish can't handle spike dmg? tbh i would think his team was to blame, if a war can be winning 1v1. even if you go wammo, the healing is not even in the same league. and well... a gd warrior? tell me what any gd warrior can do blinded every 4 secs?
why do you keep mentioning "wammos"?? seriously, wherever you're seeing these terrible warriors, stop going there lol.
here's a hypothetical team situation.
both melee are hexed (warrior/derv), they both have faintheartedness on and cover hexes with degen. the dervs attack speed is about 2.45 seconds and the warrior (playing sword or axe) is 1.98, meaning he attacks more, gets more adrenaline, and is still getting pumped. your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.
i want to see a derv with some thought rather than "lets put all these healing spells on so we're INVINCIBLE!!!!!"" and rather.. "lets kill something this time".
you know what build i like? the popular gvg reapers sweep/disrupting dagger build. thats a good fighter. i wish more dervs used reapers sweep in pvp instead of stupid avatar crap. i know a lot do, but its a much better move than those things.
why do you keep mentioning "wammos"?? seriously, wherever you're seeing these terrible warriors, stop going there lol.
here's a hypothetical team situation.
both melee are hexed (warrior/derv), they both have faintheartedness on and cover hexes with degen. the dervs attack speed is about 2.45 seconds and the warrior (playing sword or axe) is 1.98, meaning he attacks more, gets more adrenaline, and is still getting pumped. your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.
i want to see a derv with some thought rather than "lets put all these healing spells on so we're INVINCIBLE!!!!!"" and rather.. "lets kill something this time".
you know what build i like? the popular gvg reapers sweep/disrupting dagger build. thats a good fighter. i wish more dervs used reapers sweep in pvp instead of stupid avatar crap. i know a lot do, but its a much better move than those things.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand
You can't really judge a class by looking at the RA builds used. The majority of the builds used in RA will always be non-optimal and won't be very good.
most or the dervs were all guildwiki cookiecutter builds, like balth, melandru, and dwanyas build. the players obviously had to suck. but the chances of seeing all of those different sucky people was almost sad. it was like watching an entire classes' community be made of simpletons. i've seen one good derv so far. he killed our necromancer in ta the other day, and we totally underestimated him. he was running reapers/natural healing/disrupting dagger, and totally owning up. i even pmed him and told him he rocked. he gave my rit a total run for my money too, i had to kite like crap lol. and again, the RA example was just another test i had done with them to composed viewpoints and see others play. not to stereotype them or something
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.
You seem to be assuming that the dervish will not have team support as well? I blind you, it gets removed, my enchants get stripped. My Monk hooks up protection enchants. Mesmer burns me, remove hex and the initial strip gives me enough energy to apply at least my intervention and a cover.In the meantime I've tied up your mesmer, your necro and your warrior with just little ole me. Sometimes it's not how much damage you do it's how much you can detract from the enemy effectiveness. It's an old tactic in modern warfare. Guerilla fighters would rarely shoot to kill and do you know why? Because if you shoot to kill then they leave the body there, collect the tags and you have eliminated one man. You shoot to wound, now you have eliminated the wounded man and his buddy who now has to help him along. While your monk and mesmer are busy trying to eat me up what do you think my backline is doing? Sitting there with their proverbial thumb shoved up their butt? Of course not. My backline will be gimping your backline and I will still be getting in your way.
Even with protection spells plastered all over you I bet my critical hits, which I can spam, are still going to do triple digit damage easy which you have to rely on a monk to mitigate, thus further tying up your backline just with one character. Sure I can be stripped as a dervish but I can also kite like a fool, pull your backline forward while I reset my enchants, which you as a warrior have a negligible ability to do anything about.
On the other hand I'm fond of using rending sweep in PvP. All those protection spells keeping you alive from my criticals will be dust in a matter of moments and I'll make sure to burn a nice cover enchant when I use it so you'll be bleeding or burning and stripped of a vital enchant. Then you will have to focus on me instead of my backline because once I get those enchants off you there isn't a tactics or strength skill in the game that will save you from my damage output. Now your backline has to once again focus on me because I'm a threat and by trying to keep you alive they are over extending their energy on protection and heals and on stripping and trying to limit my effectiveness. If I can make your backline over extend by trying to counter just little ole me then we've got you beat it's as simple as that. So far your counters to the dervish in a team scenario seem to rely on your team focusing on the dervish and negating him. That in and of itself makes the dervish worthwhile. You can say they aren't a threat in PvP but if a backline has to focus that much energy and effort on one character then they won't have much left for keeping the team alive.
I've seen it happen a million times. While Dervish is the leet in PvE in PvP they are underestimated but when it comes time to fight and targets are called and a good dervish rolls through and starts laying out conditions and triple digit criticals priorities change and pressure lifts from some of your real damage dealers allowing them to do their job. Dervishes are the Guerilla fighters of PvP. They can unleash some heavy damage but they aren't as well equipped to do it. They instead limit your effectiveness by making you focus resources on them, or rather they can do that. That's my take on them anyway. I'm not in PvP to be the prime damage dealer. It's too boring. I'd much rather be the one running ops on your backline and making your support miserable trying to keep up with me.
Even with protection spells plastered all over you I bet my critical hits, which I can spam, are still going to do triple digit damage easy which you have to rely on a monk to mitigate, thus further tying up your backline just with one character. Sure I can be stripped as a dervish but I can also kite like a fool, pull your backline forward while I reset my enchants, which you as a warrior have a negligible ability to do anything about.
On the other hand I'm fond of using rending sweep in PvP. All those protection spells keeping you alive from my criticals will be dust in a matter of moments and I'll make sure to burn a nice cover enchant when I use it so you'll be bleeding or burning and stripped of a vital enchant. Then you will have to focus on me instead of my backline because once I get those enchants off you there isn't a tactics or strength skill in the game that will save you from my damage output. Now your backline has to once again focus on me because I'm a threat and by trying to keep you alive they are over extending their energy on protection and heals and on stripping and trying to limit my effectiveness. If I can make your backline over extend by trying to counter just little ole me then we've got you beat it's as simple as that. So far your counters to the dervish in a team scenario seem to rely on your team focusing on the dervish and negating him. That in and of itself makes the dervish worthwhile. You can say they aren't a threat in PvP but if a backline has to focus that much energy and effort on one character then they won't have much left for keeping the team alive.
I've seen it happen a million times. While Dervish is the leet in PvE in PvP they are underestimated but when it comes time to fight and targets are called and a good dervish rolls through and starts laying out conditions and triple digit criticals priorities change and pressure lifts from some of your real damage dealers allowing them to do their job. Dervishes are the Guerilla fighters of PvP. They can unleash some heavy damage but they aren't as well equipped to do it. They instead limit your effectiveness by making you focus resources on them, or rather they can do that. That's my take on them anyway. I'm not in PvP to be the prime damage dealer. It's too boring. I'd much rather be the one running ops on your backline and making your support miserable trying to keep up with me.
nidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
i want to see a derv with some thought rather than "lets put all these healing spells on so we're INVINCIBLE!!!!!"" and rather.. "lets kill something this time".
you know what build i like? the popular gvg reapers sweep/disrupting dagger build. thats a good fighter. i wish more dervs used reapers sweep in pvp instead of stupid avatar crap. i know a lot do, but its a much better move than those things. i totally agree with you there. too many dervs are using avatars, simply because they've heard that they're really good. I played avatar of balth for quite a while, then began to notice that when the skill ended an i went back to normal, i saw little or no difference, apart from that i actually dealt more damage without the avatar on.
Reaper's Sweep is a far better elite IMO. And if you think your build through as a derv, you can actually deal some good damage. As for healing enchants....yeah they're good for keeping you alive for longer, but they dont make you invincible, and cant stand up hardly at all against a good spike.
you know what build i like? the popular gvg reapers sweep/disrupting dagger build. thats a good fighter. i wish more dervs used reapers sweep in pvp instead of stupid avatar crap. i know a lot do, but its a much better move than those things. i totally agree with you there. too many dervs are using avatars, simply because they've heard that they're really good. I played avatar of balth for quite a while, then began to notice that when the skill ended an i went back to normal, i saw little or no difference, apart from that i actually dealt more damage without the avatar on.
Reaper's Sweep is a far better elite IMO. And if you think your build through as a derv, you can actually deal some good damage. As for healing enchants....yeah they're good for keeping you alive for longer, but they dont make you invincible, and cant stand up hardly at all against a good spike.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
both melee are hexed (warrior/derv), they both have faintheartedness on and cover hexes with degen. the dervs attack speed is about 2.45 seconds and the warrior (playing sword or axe) is 1.98, meaning he attacks more, gets more adrenaline, and is still getting pumped. your derv goes to blind him, great, its removed, so is all of your enchantments by our mesmer. you have no energy, because he's burning you, and our sin is spiking your monk now too. the warrior knowing you're gimped, runs away, kills your mesmer, your monks dead, your necro is beginning to get shut down ect. all the derv was was a liability and adrenaline doll. the derv btw also wasted time healing, resetting enchants if he could, and trying to run into his backline that is now nonexistent. this happens all of the time in real play btw and is actually pretty hilarious. gimping the entire class can be done in so many ways, that its not even a challenge to stop them. like shield bashing a bad sin that attacks you head on or something.
Vow Of Silence: For 5...9 seconds, you cannot be the target of Spells, and you cannot cast Spells.
where's your mesmer/necro now? free to blind you every 4 secs, ty, bb
where's your mesmer/necro now? free to blind you every 4 secs, ty, bb
Servant of Kali
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
Let's face it, people using the build doesnt make it good. Actually, when it comes to PvE, the rule of a thumb is - the more popular the build - the worse it is. Except solo farms ofc, since you need specific builds for them.
Quote: but any good caster can kill a derv, and most good warriors, or a sin that has his upper hand, wins on a derv. See, that's the whole point. You had 3 Dervishes, but your overall Dervish playskill is low, and the skills you use are probably pretty bad. Look, let's put it this way, if any warrior can kill your Dervish, you should simply resign the whole profession. I played PvE and tons of RA with my Dervish, and the situations where a warrior kills me is so rare that it's not even worth mentioning. Ironically, even with my D/A daggers build, i kill most assassins in RA before they kill me.
Quote: i was in ra.. i saw at least 50 dervs there. every team i had had one or two in them, and worse than that, they couldnt deal damage, and healed NON stop. all that is to me is a HHs wannabe paladin wammo. total garbage for the team. So, instead of making a thread "hey guys teach me how to play Dervish", you made a thread "i think Dervish is bad", based on your sub-par play experience and knowledge of Dervish class?
I have a break from the game atm so i cant demonstrate how Dervish is played in RA, but i did post my most popular PvE/RA build in this forum, more than once, when someone needed it (D/Mo Juggernaut build). Aside from that, D/A daggers build i use (and which may slightly differ from the one others use) is also very powerful in RA, with insane dmg, if you know how to use it.
None of my Dervish builds invest into Earth prayers (except D/E i use in Fort Aspenwood but that's a specific build), and i do agree with you in your RA estimate. I've seen tons of Earth (and other) Dervishes who had a lot of heals, but couldnt kill anything. The problem exists, but it's RA after all, and there are bad builds in every profession. Just as you can find a pure heal monk (who will die instantly), you can find a WMo with Mending, a Dervish with earth prayers, and minion master necro.
Quote: what does that say for the class?? or at least the community of players? now i know warriors have some nooby dudes playing them, but they've been around since the dawn of gws.. so they kinda have an excuse. Wait, and Dervishes dont? I mean, after all, for most people it's a new class unlike warrior, and Dervish requires 5x more skill to play properly. Warrior has armor, Dervish has better armor and heals *if* one knows how to play.
Let's say you have 2 newbies, 1 D 1 W. W newbie will win. As simple as that. But let's say you have 2 experienced players in RA, 1 W 1 D. I tell you that (along with the randomness of teams in RA) D player will achieve many more victories than W player.
Quote: im not bashing dervs.. just wondering how they can get away with nothing but healing, pathetic spiking, moderate pressure that any class could apply, and the occasional luck kill, and not be called a bad class?? And you're not bashing dervs?
You know what, i've seen zillion of people like you in this forum so far, blaming the class instead of their lack of experience and skill.
Just so you know, Dervish, along with Monk and a Ritualist, is an overpowered profession in RA. If, if, you know how to play.
One of the last RA battles before i took a break from the game (studying heh), put me in a situation where all my teammates were dead, and 3 enemies alive. I managed to kill one of em (forgot what he was), then killed 2nd (he was mesmer) and then i was about to kill 3rd (who was, btw, a Dervish), but he saw he'd lose so he simply quit. That was their 9th game, they demanded i resign and that im noob because im not resigning. I told em, why should i resign, since i can kill all 3 of you. Which i did.
When you say that D has nothing but healing, moderate presure, bad spiking - you are correct. A Newbie Dervish indeed has those. Experienced Dervish in RA has good healing, good presure, good spiking. All of those.
Quote: i DO know how to use them And you base this on what? After reading your post, im not convinced you know how to use them.
Quote: but i'd love to be convinced I met tons of people who "like to be convinced", especially when one is talking about theology. Quite interesting was the fact that none of them actually want to be convinced, regardless of arguments/facts/statistics. They all want others to say "you're right".
In short, im not going to type any build or any tips for you, because you're not yet at the point where you could make any use of them. Or know how to appreciate those. As far as im concerned, go play RA with your thumper or your bad Dervish builds. Easy glad points for me.
Quote: maybe they cant handle spikes that well.. any comments on that? are the enchants good, but not great against spikes or something? the heal to damage ratio seems to sluggish, and then to try to attack.. well.. you can see how its looking downhill.. No i cant see how it's looking downhill at all.
1) Yes there are a good enchants against spiking, awesome ones actually.
2) Yes there are Dervishes who dont use enough enchants, or proper enchants, or dont use them at the right time.
Quote: one thing i REALLY dont like is the avatars.. nice and all.. but the down time, and general.. meh That's because you lack experience and skill. Avatar of Dwayna is overpowered in PvE and RA. Avatar of Lyssa is extremely strong in RA.
If you're not skilled, you can always blame it on Avatar duration and interrupts, or a Dervish profession as a whole.
Quote: i play a lot of ranger/mesmer. .. i just interrupt them lol. And? This isnt GvG thread so let's say you're in RA. If you start using your Avatar once you get in front of the ranger, then does that make Avatar bad? No, the player is bad. If you're Rt spirit spammer and start spamming first spirit once a warrior is on you already, or a ranger, does that mean spirit spamming sucks big time? No, it's a very strong build, but not every grandma can play it.
Quote: i do love things like Reapers Sweep That's cool, because i said that you're inexperienced, and since i think Reapers Sweep is one of the worse Dervish elites, it just proves my point. Then again, a lot of people in the forum dont agree with me on Reapers, but not that i care.
Quote: Melandru+imbue+dwanyas touch Dwaynas Touch is a very bad skill on a Dervish, and if you "grokked" Dervish class, and became one with it, you'd know why, and wouldnt use it.
Quote: but at least i wont be in an uproar when my guild wants me to play one for gvg/ta/ha GvG and HA builds are team-specific, so im afraid this forum cant help you much. Especially this board which is PvE/RA section, definitely not GvG HA.
Quote: um.. obviously the warriors werent "spiking" very well using a riposte build bro.. first meet a -good- warrior, then we can talk I have yet to see a good warrior who will spike a good Dervish.
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Irrelevant. The downtime of a skill is no indication of how good the skill is. |
every class has a counter/weakness if not MORE than one, but slow attacking
Slow attacking? As i said, learn how to play. Dervishes has the best IAS in the game. Quote:
Yeah, and Dervishes are fenomenal in PvE.
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Then again, i dont have a problem with anything in RA when im using my best build there, not even necro hexers or mesmers. The main problem is usually Rt who spammed everything around himself.. and then careful play is needed. Quote:
You know, for argumentum ad hominem not to be pointless, you actually have to prove your opponent wrong, which you havent so far. You just keep proving that some people can only post rants and complaints and flames and critic, but in the end, no one remembers them. Those who are remembered and those who gave a constructive feedback/input.
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its a touch skill, good self heal, and is the self heal for wind prayer users dude. what class are you playing????
It's a very bad skill. And i repeat, if you knew how to play Dervish, you'd know why it's a bad skill. Quote:
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