I like killcount. Played well, its a highly mobile dance where teams constantly vie for positioning, worry about ganks and dart in and out for kills.
The big problem with killcount basically amounts to: if one of the teams sucks, the outcome of the match is skewed. Its not fun and a total crapshoot to cam the spawn of a dead team that doesnt have the skills of teh other teams. Then there are smaller problems like leeroy the dead ghostly, but these are minor issues really.
The real problem is broken tower map. Whatever map victory condition broken tower, or the first non 1v1 map takes should it be removed, will essentially define the HA experience for all teams in HA who are not expecting to go on long halls-holding runs, including most fame farmers.
Personally, I like killcount late in the rotation on courtyard, you usually get great matches there... and I would revert broken tower to 1v1 and put the 6v6 version of scarred earth into the rotation... meaning that most matches would be some varient of simple annihilation until the first relic run on the 5th map... This would allow builders and fame farmers maximum flexibility to take any strategy they want, because the maps dont force their hand until the relic run on the fifth map.
Killcount In Ha: "Looking Into Further Changes"? I Think Not
Nekretaal
sweat man
relic run is easy its sacred temples that i hate unless your playing a high skill team then its interesting, gate control can make or break a team. i agree that kill count can be good, but the majority of the time it isnt, problem is on courtyard so many noobs skip to. skips and ganking are the most problamatic thing in halls.
ha def needs new maps
ha def needs new maps
masteroflife
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Originally Posted by Nekretaal
I like killcount. Played well, its a highly mobile dance where teams constantly vie for positioning, worry about ganks and dart in and out for kills.
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Selket
There seems to be less people playing HA than ever before.
I have never gotten more than one nop in a row, yet last night we got 2-3 on every map and broken and courtyard were ALWAYS 1v1s.
I have never gotten more than one nop in a row, yet last night we got 2-3 on every map and broken and courtyard were ALWAYS 1v1s.
Death_From_Above
Its simple, get rid of freeking kill count because that stuff just sucks and as one guy above me said. When 6v6 was here you had a few who liked it but will kill count everyone iv asked its been nope nope nope. Randomway is exactly correct, i believe anet just messed up so badly they dont want to admit it which only makes them further look stupid. Understandable if fixing HA would take a while but the fact is it wouldnt. They have been told over and over how to fix it.
I remember in fact galie going when she mentioned new mechanics would be comming out. ohhhhhhhhhhh you will love it guys. It came we hated it she disapears. It so clearly is anet just does not want to face the music. Then you get all these joeys who need to be locked up saying stupid stuff like oh be patient.
1 Year isnt pacient enough? Why dont you try lending all your money to a friend for an agreed day because you have travled and lets see if when you come back the next day an he hasnt given you your money back and he persists with this for a year. Whether during that period your going to say to yourself, erm just be pacient.
These changes are long over due and its even more insulting at how we have been told nothing and then were treated as if were dumb with properganda statments like. Anet is currently looking into HA. Seriously show me the person looking into these issues and i will show you a computer with no one sitting at it. A meer day of looking at the state of HA and asking around would have made you identify the problem.
I would joke before saying anet have the iqs of fish. But i now am actually starting to believe this sadly enough because fixing HA isnt exactly quantam physics.
Fact of the matter is from what i have seen is that anet are not willing to accept their in the wrong. Think about it, you make changes and change tem back 1 year later, how idiotic would you look. Anet obviously care more about looking good than pleasing their players. Also they are fed up with HA i believe and really arnt doing any work on it. Its more like on the end of a never ending que line. They tried fix it they messed up and made it suck even more. So there like forget it, they realised the damage they have done has already left a scar and all this talk about working on kill count is just to keep players off their backs.
I say this because if they where working on HA what more can they work on. Fix HA and dones correct?
If HA is just put back to normal (what works) which is alter capping and no relic run in halls. I will be content and this whole matter can be dropped because at the moment things are horrendously bad.
Well im not one to jump on the Gaile Bash wagon as well. Infact i dont have any problems with her, as you said shes only a loyal employee, dont shoot the messenger shoot the one who sent the message and yes she is the messenger. My problem comes though when i find the person whos ment to be representing the HA community claims kill count owns in her statements, when everyone in the HA community who shes ment to be relaying information from says kill count stuck. Dear sirs and madams, that is where my problem starts. It then continues when i find the HA community is ignored with no information from Anet for months and the only way to get information from Galie is to go and stand in a pve area hopin she would say something about HA. To be honest, that makes me lose hope in anet and truely disheatens me. Its like when you find your lawyer has done a runner when you need them most because without them you will get 3 life sentences asap.
I remember in fact galie going when she mentioned new mechanics would be comming out. ohhhhhhhhhhh you will love it guys. It came we hated it she disapears. It so clearly is anet just does not want to face the music. Then you get all these joeys who need to be locked up saying stupid stuff like oh be patient.
1 Year isnt pacient enough? Why dont you try lending all your money to a friend for an agreed day because you have travled and lets see if when you come back the next day an he hasnt given you your money back and he persists with this for a year. Whether during that period your going to say to yourself, erm just be pacient.
These changes are long over due and its even more insulting at how we have been told nothing and then were treated as if were dumb with properganda statments like. Anet is currently looking into HA. Seriously show me the person looking into these issues and i will show you a computer with no one sitting at it. A meer day of looking at the state of HA and asking around would have made you identify the problem.
I would joke before saying anet have the iqs of fish. But i now am actually starting to believe this sadly enough because fixing HA isnt exactly quantam physics.
Fact of the matter is from what i have seen is that anet are not willing to accept their in the wrong. Think about it, you make changes and change tem back 1 year later, how idiotic would you look. Anet obviously care more about looking good than pleasing their players. Also they are fed up with HA i believe and really arnt doing any work on it. Its more like on the end of a never ending que line. They tried fix it they messed up and made it suck even more. So there like forget it, they realised the damage they have done has already left a scar and all this talk about working on kill count is just to keep players off their backs.
I say this because if they where working on HA what more can they work on. Fix HA and dones correct?
If HA is just put back to normal (what works) which is alter capping and no relic run in halls. I will be content and this whole matter can be dropped because at the moment things are horrendously bad.
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Originally Posted by Lord Natural
Kill count is better because Gaile thinks it's cool.
It should be clear by now that anet has a gross misconception of player's tastes regarding HA -- and by players I mean people who actually play in HA, not people who 'play' it on forums only. I'm not one to jump on the Gaile bash wagon, after all she's just an employee of a company and as far as I'm concerned does a reasonable job relaying information to the community, all while wading waist-deep through bullshit. |
Nekretaal
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Originally Posted by masteroflife
that's all well and good, but where does that put balanced and pressure builds? should we just completely eliminate them because of kill counts?
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If these happen, then Killcount can play to its strenghts as exciting and very strategic gameplay.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Killcount, strategic? If by that you mean a lot of fire eles and some sins and warriors (which you obviously do) go back to PvE. While I agree courtyard is the most plausible (A.K.A. absolutely ridiculous and worthless) map for killcount as there is the most mobility, it is still just retarded. Killcount encourages cookie cutter builds and massive AoE scrubfests, and forces you to run insanely offensive builds.
Does-it-Matter
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Originally Posted by Snype
Can the company explain what the point of making 90% of HAers miserable is?
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| Play HA, talk to the players, a HUGE majority (well over 75%, wants killcount gone) |
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| Then why aren't they answering us now? Just because they simply say "we are looking into it", we should just leave it alone until they wake up and REALIZE there is a problem? |
(1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum.
(2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet.
(3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned.
(4) Multiply step 2 by step 3.
(5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day.
(6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc.
(7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time."
(8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4.
Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling.
When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day.
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| When they start doing their job then I'll let them continue working |
Snype
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| Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc. |
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| Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please. |
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Do this: (1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum. (2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet. (3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned. (4) Multiply step 2 by step 3. (5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day. (6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc. (7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time." (8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4. Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling. When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day. |
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| They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement. |
Gimme Money Plzkthx
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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter
Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc.
Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please. Do this: (1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum. (2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet. (3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned. (4) Multiply step 2 by step 3. (5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day. (6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc. (7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time." (8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4. Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling. When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day. They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement. |
Does-it-Matter
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Originally Posted by Snype
By your responses I would guess that you hardly ever play Heroes Ascent. Please do not try to refute information you have not even thought about.
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| Psst...90% is "well over 75%" in case your running short on your math skills. |
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| Well go to the Heroes Ascent forum. Look what just about EVERY thread is talking about, then give me a list. Thanks... |
I know I didn't come to the forums until I actually had questions about the game. And it wasn't until much later that I actually began to post my own thoughts.
How many people joined up to complain?
How many people joined up to say they liked how things are going?
How many joined up to help others in the community?
As I said in reference to a question about polls. If you go to a mall and ask persons if they prefer Shopping at Home or Shopping at a Mall, you're going to get a skewed response.
And also with my squeaky wheel comment... those that like it aren't going to complain.
If you can show me hard evidence, I'm more than willing to change my opinion. But until then, I look at it as every other change. Some people like things the way they are, others want them their way. As with any update ANet does, there is a vocal minority that constantly rants about changes. Until you can show me that it's actually the majority and simply not a vocal minority, I will retain my point of view.
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| Thats why they pay people to communicate with the players and go on these forums. I'm pretty sure they aren't getting payed for "good will". |
She has a specific level of access and way of posting in game for her to do her job.
I no doubt agree that what she does is during work hours and benefits the company, but I doubt they TELL her to go to fan sites and say certain things.
What happens if she doesn't go to all the fan site forums? Does that indicate ANet favors some over others?
What happens if she decides to suddenly no longer go to certain forums in favor of others? Is she putting her job on the line?
I'm doubting it.
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Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
It would take anet very, very little time to remove killcount and other lame win conditions from HA. They have to have the previous version of HA saved somewhere, it wouldn't take much time at all.
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Just because you (and other vocal posters) think it is "lame," perhaps ANet does not, after all, they put thought and design time into implementing it.
After all, the mix-max values of many of the skills most likely boil down to simple value listings (skill_min= value, skill_max = value2), and are there for EASY to CHANGE. How long do skill changes take though?
It isn't just "flip the switch, run the new build." They look at the implications of the change. The big picture, possible repercussions, etc.
You may think its VERY deserving of a change, you may think the repercussions are only beneficial, the developers may not.
They need time to have their meetings and run tests. This takes time, as they have MANY other things to examine and design as well.
Patience, please.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
They have had months to run tests. plus they don't know jack crap about PvP so they really have no authority to know wtf is going on in HA. Also, I would wager that his 90% statistic is incorrect, and it is legitimately closer to 98 or 99%. If you actually played HA, you would know that EVERYONE hates killcount.
Does-it-Matter
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Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
They have had months to run tests. plus they don't know jack crap about PvP so they really have no authority to know wtf is going on in HA.
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I'd really like to know how you rationalize that one.
Bread Fan
Nice move on your part to move this to Riverside but I bet it will still be ignored...
As I predicted months ago Anet would succumb to some of the HA players complaints and make it 8v8 once again. I also mentioned they would leave kill count even though it is blantant that skilled players running shut down pressure builds would suffer. Anyone can run a 3 2 1 but a lot of players enjoy a diverse build where each person has their task (besides button smashing) and kill count eliminates this possibilty.
The most drastic drop in HA was a couple weeks after heroes were introduced. Come on now this is a PvP area and you were playing against NPC's. Puff puff pass. A lot of people lost faith in Anet and my guild folded shortly after.
If their intention was to attract PvE players to HA and kill their loyal fan base they are victorious. Thing is most PvE players get a hard on from getting the l33t armor or weapon and have no desire to make the transformation to PvP. For the few to chose to do so they need to take their lumps and learn the skills as we all did.
To sum it up, what is the reasoning behind destroying something that once worked? Alliance battles was a flop so why bring it to HA? If you are going to have a PvE, PvP game at least have a representative for each community. An ignorant represenative only adds fuel to the fire. Not bashing you Gaile but the company you work for, as they should have hired someone to fill this void.
P.S - Ignorant PvE players are welcome to flame as you have as much right to voice your opinion since you bought the game as do I in the PvE whiney "OMG stop nerfing this skill!" threads.
GL HF!
As I predicted months ago Anet would succumb to some of the HA players complaints and make it 8v8 once again. I also mentioned they would leave kill count even though it is blantant that skilled players running shut down pressure builds would suffer. Anyone can run a 3 2 1 but a lot of players enjoy a diverse build where each person has their task (besides button smashing) and kill count eliminates this possibilty.
The most drastic drop in HA was a couple weeks after heroes were introduced. Come on now this is a PvP area and you were playing against NPC's. Puff puff pass. A lot of people lost faith in Anet and my guild folded shortly after.
If their intention was to attract PvE players to HA and kill their loyal fan base they are victorious. Thing is most PvE players get a hard on from getting the l33t armor or weapon and have no desire to make the transformation to PvP. For the few to chose to do so they need to take their lumps and learn the skills as we all did.
To sum it up, what is the reasoning behind destroying something that once worked? Alliance battles was a flop so why bring it to HA? If you are going to have a PvE, PvP game at least have a representative for each community. An ignorant represenative only adds fuel to the fire. Not bashing you Gaile but the company you work for, as they should have hired someone to fill this void.
P.S - Ignorant PvE players are welcome to flame as you have as much right to voice your opinion since you bought the game as do I in the PvE whiney "OMG stop nerfing this skill!" threads.
GL HF!
Cass
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Originally Posted by sweat man
blabla I am Borat Ownz Yooo /in Electronic Empire [eE] and I got ganked by Mystic, who is nub blabla
also, kill counts, meh, i dont mind them, but i see how they disrupt the game, on the other i think capture points is more of a problem. |
Complaining about Searing Flames teams when you are a eE Rit spiker yourself. LOL. Of course you don't mind kill counts, as your trash spike gimmick thrives on them, just as SF does.
Fact of the matter is that Killcount made pure spike (of the 5P/5N/5E flavor) predominant, which is boring. I had hoped it would fade over time, but sadly it is as hard to get anywhere with balanced as it was at the start of KC. The halls environment is possibly worse now than it was when IWAY was omnipresent and the Americans held halls 24/7 with it.
My vote: Just ONE killcount map should be reverted to classic altar holding. In addition, DP should be re-introduced in ALL maps. It's not pre-searing ffs.
uxxmall
The timer reseted 2 times in HOH today , waited 30 minutes to find an opponent, u figure it out how many ppl play HA now and how much ppl luv it now.
Thanks Anet
PS. Kill Count best idea ever (/couch) how much took u to figure it our aaaa 2 sec ?
Thanks Anet
PS. Kill Count best idea ever (/couch) how much took u to figure it our aaaa 2 sec ?
sweat man
relic run is easy its sacred temples that i hate unless your playing a high skill team then its interesting, gate control can make or break a team. i agree that kill count can be good, but the majority of the time it isnt, problem is on courtyard so many noobs skip to. skips and ganking are the most problamatic thing in halls.
ha def needs new maps
ha def needs new maps
Nekretaal
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Originally Posted by uxxmall
The timer reseted 2 times in HOH today , waited 30 minutes to find an opponent, u figure it out how many ppl play HA now and how much ppl luv it now.
Thanks Anet? |
It's also because (and I'm going to get flamed for this) moving to 8v8 from 6v6 decreases the amount of teams by 25%, increases the amount of time to form the team considerably, doesnt make sense on the 6v6 maps, and the initial bump of interest from the switch is over now. I'm of the opinion that 6v6 was better than 8v8 with the new win conditions. The 8v8 fad died quick.
As for killcount. I've had very fun games on killcount, the teams just have to all be good, hence the revert-broken tower to 1v1, bring back scarred earth (with the lever), leave killcount on courtyard, suggestion. Blaming killcount for the fact that the HA metagame will always be stale based on the victory condition of the first 3-team map seems misplaced. Yes, the first three team map shouldnt be killcount, but if its altar capping, or altar holding, or any other map-based victory, the HA metagame will be equally stale.
PS Posters who want to bring back IWAY should not be calling any other builds lame.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Nekretaal
PS Posters who want to bring back IWAY should not be calling any other builds lame.
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It probably won't, though. Because of the power creep we got with Nightfall skills, IWAY isn't viable anymore. Before Factions IWAY was a joke once people learned how to counter it. After Factions, IWAY started running OoA which single-handedly made it into a viable build again, but today we have so many non-enchantment defenses (paragons, rits) that OoA won't break the game.
Inde
Please keep this civil. Any insult to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. Please keep posts on topic and contributing.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter
Ok, just one thing I have to chuckle about, because I know when I design things I have absolutely no clue how it works. Ye-up.
I'd really like to know how you rationalize that one. |
Fact of the matter is, killcount forces certain builds, and even if one map were left killcount, it would still stand a decent chance of killing off more skilled teams trying to run hexes or shutdown. ALL killcount maps need to be removed.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx
Anet really doesn't know anything about PvP, if you did, you would know that they didn't.
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| Fact of the matter is, killcount forces certain builds, and even if one map were left killcount, it would still stand a decent chance of killing off more skilled teams trying to run hexes or shutdown. ALL killcount maps need to be removed. |
Nekretaal
All maps force certain builds... every single one of them.
As long as the first three-team map is a "map based" victory condition the HA metagame for most players will center on the strategy that is best to defeat that condition (except for the those teams confident in their skills to go on long holding runs... who will exclusive metagame for the Hall of Heroes victory conditions).
The numbers bear it out. In pre-update 6v6 (the worst selection of maps ever), the map conditions elimiated more than 95% of teams by the third map... hence the enormous build constraints on team builds to win on the altar in broken tower and get to the lever first (or have enough defense to survive a coordinate gank by two teams at the same time), in scarred earth. This lame pressure on builds, entirely because of the maps, is what doomed 6v6.
Its the pressure on builds caused by a special "map" win condition on broken tower that restricts builds, not killcount per se. If broken tower were alliance battles, or altar capping, or altar holding or relic run... I assure you the metagame would be equally lame.
Altar holding has the advatage that at least the old timers are used to it, but the builds it produces are equally lame. The above poster is worried that hexes cant hack it in killcount, but they cant hack it in 8v8 altar capping either... the only time you ever saw hex based pressure in Heroes ascent was in 6v6. Whats the point of pressure when games dont even start untiul there are 90 seconds or less left? And shutdown, do you really want to return to the days of all monk "spikes" (immune to shutdown becausse of numbers) incapable of killing twice a minute or "holding teams" who sneak a PD mesmer or CG ranger into their build because there is only one way to win 33% of the maps?
Kill counts and different win conditions in Halls are good. The updated victory conditions are good. With Killcount on a late map like courtyard, that ought to at least keep certain builds honest (if a team tries to sneak in dual CG rangers it better be at least able to score kills), ought to provide good gameplay (natural selection weeds out the poor teams before then), and itself wolnt overtly affect team building (because teams game primarily for the victory conditions on the early 3-way maps and game for hall of heroes). Heck with skips, even seeing the non halls late maps isnt a given.
An even though I dont think Killcount should be killed and replaced in one of izzy's untested "harsh nerfs," I do think that its nigh time that anet fixed broken tower map by returning back to 1v1 and getting rid of the three way killcount.
As long as the first three-team map is a "map based" victory condition the HA metagame for most players will center on the strategy that is best to defeat that condition (except for the those teams confident in their skills to go on long holding runs... who will exclusive metagame for the Hall of Heroes victory conditions).
The numbers bear it out. In pre-update 6v6 (the worst selection of maps ever), the map conditions elimiated more than 95% of teams by the third map... hence the enormous build constraints on team builds to win on the altar in broken tower and get to the lever first (or have enough defense to survive a coordinate gank by two teams at the same time), in scarred earth. This lame pressure on builds, entirely because of the maps, is what doomed 6v6.
Its the pressure on builds caused by a special "map" win condition on broken tower that restricts builds, not killcount per se. If broken tower were alliance battles, or altar capping, or altar holding or relic run... I assure you the metagame would be equally lame.
Altar holding has the advatage that at least the old timers are used to it, but the builds it produces are equally lame. The above poster is worried that hexes cant hack it in killcount, but they cant hack it in 8v8 altar capping either... the only time you ever saw hex based pressure in Heroes ascent was in 6v6. Whats the point of pressure when games dont even start untiul there are 90 seconds or less left? And shutdown, do you really want to return to the days of all monk "spikes" (immune to shutdown becausse of numbers) incapable of killing twice a minute or "holding teams" who sneak a PD mesmer or CG ranger into their build because there is only one way to win 33% of the maps?
Kill counts and different win conditions in Halls are good. The updated victory conditions are good. With Killcount on a late map like courtyard, that ought to at least keep certain builds honest (if a team tries to sneak in dual CG rangers it better be at least able to score kills), ought to provide good gameplay (natural selection weeds out the poor teams before then), and itself wolnt overtly affect team building (because teams game primarily for the victory conditions on the early 3-way maps and game for hall of heroes). Heck with skips, even seeing the non halls late maps isnt a given.
An even though I dont think Killcount should be killed and replaced in one of izzy's untested "harsh nerfs," I do think that its nigh time that anet fixed broken tower map by returning back to 1v1 and getting rid of the three way killcount.
allience
kill count needs to be removed. when anet removed it from the hoh map, that was the firse good step to getting better. now we need kill count removed from broken tower and courtyard.
i think every1 can see the pure spike meta. it's getting lame and boring. kill count and mixed winning conditions did worse to heroes ascent than iway/vim/bs alltogether.
HA should be about the ghostly and the altar, it's what made this pvp arena unique and interesting. hopefully Anet will realise that the majority prefer things the old way. they didn't mess up with gvg and winning conditions there. i just don't understand WHY they did this to HA.
(i wouldn't be surprised in a new gvg update: capture points at the flag and both bases, kill count and of course, who can cap most flags...)
i think every1 can see the pure spike meta. it's getting lame and boring. kill count and mixed winning conditions did worse to heroes ascent than iway/vim/bs alltogether.
HA should be about the ghostly and the altar, it's what made this pvp arena unique and interesting. hopefully Anet will realise that the majority prefer things the old way. they didn't mess up with gvg and winning conditions there. i just don't understand WHY they did this to HA.
(i wouldn't be surprised in a new gvg update: capture points at the flag and both bases, kill count and of course, who can cap most flags...)
gasmaskman
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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter
Statistics? And "all the people I asked in the district said so" doesn't really count as I'm sure some remained silent, the time you were on matters, the district and the region, etc.
Wasn't it 90% just a second ago? And again, statistics please. Do this: (1) Look through all the threads in this forum, and every Guild Wars fan forum. (2) Write down the number of threads that want input from ANet. (3) Calculate the amount of time it takes to create, revise and finalize an official answer from all the developers concerned. (4) Multiply step 2 by step 3. (5) Calculate the amount of time the staff has in their work day. (6) Calculate the amount of time it takes to work on events, skill updates, investigating every aspect of the game, designing an expansion, designing a whole new game, meetings, budget reviews, etc. (7) Subtract step 6 from step five, label it "free time." (8) Compare the result of step 7 to the result of step 4. Honestly, every person who has an idea wants an official response from ANet. They think theirs has priority, and they think the majority of the community is behind them because of a non-random sampling. When they get the time, they will get to the fan site threads. If they don't have enough time for you on a particular day, be patient, and perhaps they will find time another day. They've produced three chapters, they are working on an expansion and a new game. That's all that they are "required" to do for their job. Everything else is good will to their customers, which isn't a job requirement. |
This seems like a thread with 2 people:
Group 1: HAers who support the removal of kill count.
Group 2: PvEers who don't HA and tell the HA players to "wait."
I didn't ask for kill count. I asked for 8v8. I never asked for 6v6. I asked for new maps. How about Anet just reverts halls back to altar maps so the mechanic isn't as broken (I never said it wasn't, tyvm) as kill count is.
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| Well the lack of players is probably due to the fact that the "l337 title grinders" (mock them, but Heroes ascent would not exist without them) have been busy doing other things recently. On my friendslist, many very good pvp players on good pvp guilds who preferred to sit afk on nine-rings rather than play the actual game over the weekend. There's also the new titles for hard mode, and whatnot. |
Randomway Ftw
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Originally Posted by Nekretaal
Its the pressure on builds caused by a special "map" win condition on broken tower that restricts builds, not killcount per se. If broken tower were alliance battles, or altar capping, or altar holding or relic run... I assure you the metagame would be equally lame.
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| Altar holding has the advatage that at least the old timers are used to it, but the builds it produces are equally lame. The above poster is worried that hexes cant hack it in killcount, but they cant hack it in 8v8 altar capping either... the only time you ever saw hex based pressure in Heroes ascent was in 6v6. Whats the point of pressure when games dont even start untiul there are 90 seconds or less left? And shutdown, do you really want to return to the days of all monk "spikes" (immune to shutdown becausse of numbers) incapable of killing twice a minute or "holding teams" who sneak a PD mesmer or CG ranger into their build because there is only one way to win 33% of the maps? |
Games don't start until 90 seconds are left? no one forces you to wait, that doesn't matter anyways because 2 teams can pressure out the holding team quickly enough.
The defensive caster spike you are talking about is easily in both 1v1 and 2v1 situation by teams that know what they are doing, its not really an issue.
The Real Roy Keane
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Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw
The defensive caster spike you are talking about is easily in both 1v1 and 2v1 situation by teams that know what they are doing, its not really an issue.
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Nekretaal
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Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw
We had altar holding broken tower, and it was fine..
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Players hated 6v6, and it wasnt just because of team sizes.
Players hated the early 3 way altar map and hated it even more than they hated 6v6. 5/6 teams get one fame or less on a halls run? 23/24 teams get 3 fame or less on a halls run? no thanks. Thats just not a game people want to play.
The supposed golden age of HA that you want to revert to had broken tower as a 1v1 map, so I would think that you ought to be infavor of that.
And whatever problems that you have with killcount I guarantee that they will be 10,000 less pressing when broken tower doesnt force them early.
Swift Thief
ArenaNet only has 140 members so they can't do much. They are currently working on GW2 and testing Eye of the North. They are also doing other stuff but it is hard for them.
Snype
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Originally Posted by Swift Thief
ArenaNet only has 140 members so they can't do much. They are currently working on GW2 and testing Eye of the North. They are also doing other stuff but it is hard for them.
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Yichi
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Originally Posted by Snype
I'm tired of hearing this B.S. Did the Anet employees tell you they were busy? I bet they didn't! Maybe they should stop making new games and new expansions and worry about the first game that is currently broken in many different aspects.
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Series
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
when they have a new game on the way that supposedly will fix all the current bullshit thats going on in the first game, why would they worry about it as a priority?
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Gaile Gray
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Originally Posted by Snype
I'm tired of hearing this B.S. Did the Anet employees tell you they were busy? I bet they didn't! Maybe they should stop making new games and new expansions and worry about the first game that is currently broken in many different aspects.
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There, I've said it.
All kidding aside, I want you to know that we don't--I don't--dismiss your concerns one bit. We have a few designers who are looking at HA as they are able. But there are other assignments that they must also fulfill. Like me, they have more than a single obligation to the company. We're not shuttling HA off to the dark reaches of attention, but it's obviously not at the top of the list. We've done some changes, make some tests, listened to players, and we're listening to them still. But HA is one part of a very large game, and one facet that we've spent quite a bit of time on over the last few months, as I'm sure you'd agree.
One thing to consider is that a lot of staff has been working on other PvP-related matters, such as the ATS, skill changes, new PvE-only skills (which I hope you understand have a secondary benefit to PvP in that they allow more refined balancing of PvP), Hard Mode, and many other things.
The subject of HA is not closed; the decisions are not final; the configuration is not set in stone. But yes, I'm going to say "Please be patient," because that's what's needed now.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We're busy.
There, I've said it. All kidding aside, I want you to know that we don't--I don't--dismiss your concerns one bit. We have a few designers who are looking at HA as they are able. But there are other assignments that they must also fulfill. Like me, they have more than a single obligation to the company. We're not shuttling HA off to the dark reaches of attention, but it's obviously not at the top of the list. We've done some changes, make some tests, listened to players, and we're listening to them still. But HA is one part of a very large game, and one facet that we've spent quite a bit of time on over the last few months, as I'm sure you'd agree. One thing to consider is that a lot of staff has been working on other PvP-related matters, such as the ATS, skill changes, new PvE-only skills (which I hope you understand have a secondary benefit to PvP in that they allow more refined balancing of PvP), Hard Mode, and many other things. The subject of HA is not closed; the decisions are not final; the configuration is not set in stone. But yes, I'm going to say "Please be patient," because that's what's needed now. |
DarkRaider
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Originally Posted by sweat man
tbh. they should just bring back the old holding in halls, and make the map last 1:30, relic runs etc only matter in the last 30 or so seconds, why have pointless time wasted when everyone is going to moreorless gain nothing over a longer period of time, also, why are noob teams making it to halls? the otehr day i was playing against mystic pwnsyou, he was running SFway...as always, and we were winning in broken around 16-10-3, then when we get to 21, 30 secs or so before the end mystic steals all of our kils ending up 21 21* so that he wins bc he got the last kill, it was gay mystic is a noob and yet he gets to halls because there are more and more noobs comining to halls. tbh they should have a <3 areana where ppl can gain rank and stop this farm of the nabs. im sorry but i mean i go to halls about 90% runs in the last 2 weeks, and then we end up being ganked in every 2nd 3way map. it sucks, why? becuase the recognise the name - Borat Ownz Yooo or Electronic Empire [eE]. ganking is ruining the game and just becuase 1 noob team doesnt know good tacs for capture points they decide hmmm i dont like that guy that has success lets beat on him, and so end up loosing to noobways it sucks, good teams shouldnt have to play against that. u dont have to be ranked to be good, thats understandable and true, but i mean when personel quams come in the way of a good game it just ruins it. sportsmanship should be more common, to often to i see "fu noob scrubs" or w/e before a match, and when they get rolled its "learn to play" n stuff, yet they were pwnt, one of the best matches this week was against a guild group "heroes factory" rank5, while i was running with some guildies, borat, was calling an the match lasted 45mins, it was great, while fustrating and tireing for 8 fame, it was good, there was no flaming or bitching, it was spike vs spike, as always we were runnning rit spike, while they were running paraway, most of the time borat was dead, and blocked sinc they knew he was the caller, so with calling coming from beyond the grave and from party members within the group we managed to outplay them, however only slightly, this match i felt was a good game, while others such as ones in burial which last 1 min ish against some flamers is just terible. player attitude needs to be worked on. i think that halls would be alot better if all maps were either 1 on 1 , 4 way, or like scared eath. remember that map where there was 3 sections, in each section there would be a team fighting and once a party was defeated in that section the door would open into the middle, where other doors were closed until the other teams had stopped fighting, while there were a few problems such as teams taking forever to beat eachother, it stopped the chance for ganking which ruins ha.
ganking needs to be fixed not the skills, lame builds (in my opinion) such as SFway, paraway and iway (new iway) are all very sucky but still they are meta and so must be good as it helps newer players get into groups as not much co-ordination is required, and teams, if they are good should be able to counter the meta always and therefore not complain about looosing to popular build, thats fine, its when 2 noob teams gang up on the good team before /roll 100 or fighting eachother, sucks, while alot of the time i can beat the gankers it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth about HA. it just sucks!!! EDIT the solution. make gaile/members of the GW team come and sit in halls and after the win the winning team should be question as to what they think or...they could send out questionaires? im sure theyed get a clearer responce then... also, kill counts, meh, i dont mind them, but i see how they disrupt the game, on the other i think capture points is more of a problem. |
You've been calling Mystic (R11 guy, ex-[Meow] for those who don't know) a noob, because he snatched the last kills in killcount. However, later in your post you state you don't mind killcount and you dislike capture points. Why's this? Because you're being an egoist. Your ritspike is powerful on killcount so you like it and it is weak at capture points, therefor you dislike it.
It's tough losing to a build as Searing Flames and you've been typing you hate being ganked. However from what I understand, you and Mystic were ganking the third team when you ended up losing lol. Maybe try Spirit Rift instead of wielder's strike? xD
To come back about players disliking you, I believe alot of players dislike Souls of Glory [SoG] too, anything you two have in common? You've been calling SF'way, Paraway and the newer iway lame. I guess ritspike doesn't belong between these builds? Guess what, it does. If you don't want to lose halls because people don't like you, go play balanced, rainbow or assasins or something like that.
A few days ago, my guild and I were in halls playing [Meow] and [Cry] in KOTH. Inconveniently, a member of our backline was gone and holding was an impossible task against [Meow]'s paraway and [Cry]'s 2-warrior balanced. What happened? We outspike Meow's backline and help Cry win. Why? Because they played paraway and we dislike that build. Simple as that.
To conclude this, I think you should stop the QQ about paraway, spiritway, SFway and even players' attitudes when you really are no better then they are. You play ritspike. You B-Spiked your way to the top100. You I have never seen playing something else apart from spike. You sir, are lame. And yes, I dislike the same builds you dislike, including your own.
But nothing feels better then beating them and just saying "gg" in all chat, knowing you're the better player.
Stop flaming.
~Balashi, ganker of ritspikes.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
But HA is one part of a very large game, and one facet that we've spent quite a bit of time on over the last few months, as I'm sure you'd agree.
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You broke it and now you're asking the players for whom HA was the whole game, not just one small part, to be patient because fixing what you broke is not on top of your priorities.
Gimme Money Plzkthx
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We're busy.
There, I've said it. All kidding aside, I want you to know that we don't--I don't--dismiss your concerns one bit. We have a few designers who are looking at HA as they are able. But there are other assignments that they must also fulfill. Like me, they have more than a single obligation to the company. We're not shuttling HA off to the dark reaches of attention, but it's obviously not at the top of the list. We've done some changes, make some tests, listened to players, and we're listening to them still. But HA is one part of a very large game, and one facet that we've spent quite a bit of time on over the last few months, as I'm sure you'd agree. One thing to consider is that a lot of staff has been working on other PvP-related matters, such as the ATS, skill changes, new PvE-only skills (which I hope you understand have a secondary benefit to PvP in that they allow more refined balancing of PvP), Hard Mode, and many other things. The subject of HA is not closed; the decisions are not final; the configuration is not set in stone. But yes, I'm going to say "Please be patient," because that's what's needed now. |
Tea Girl
Awww poor HA. Broken and probably not going to get fixed until next year. Ohh baby it's RA time!
I still demand a fds and a shield for my mini Koss. With this much useful updates and non-Ha related updates (PvE mostly) I sure hope the next expansion went well because my 2cents will be going to the mall. ^___~
I still demand a fds and a shield for my mini Koss. With this much useful updates and non-Ha related updates (PvE mostly) I sure hope the next expansion went well because my 2cents will be going to the mall. ^___~
Tea Girl
edit: blah double posted b/c guru is loading so slow :T I can't whine efficiently now.
Snype
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
We're busy.
There, I've said it. All kidding aside, I want you to know that we don't--I don't--dismiss your concerns one bit. We have a few designers who are looking at HA as they are able. But there are other assignments that they must also fulfill. Like me, they have more than a single obligation to the company. We're not shuttling HA off to the dark reaches of attention, but it's obviously not at the top of the list. We've done some changes, make some tests, listened to players, and we're listening to them still. But HA is one part of a very large game, and one facet that we've spent quite a bit of time on over the last few months, as I'm sure you'd agree. One thing to consider is that a lot of staff has been working on other PvP-related matters, such as the ATS, skill changes, new PvE-only skills (which I hope you understand have a secondary benefit to PvP in that they allow more refined balancing of PvP), Hard Mode, and many other things. The subject of HA is not closed; the decisions are not final; the configuration is not set in stone. But yes, I'm going to say "Please be patient," because that's what's needed now. |
Although I understand all of the other obligations that the staff has to deal with, I can't help but wonder what kind of work it will actually take to change this (important) facet of the game. If you look at the forums, the polls, the petitions, you will see the same message; the players want to get rid of kill count, in place with another objective. I really can't see how this will take much time or effort at all from the staff. Even if it was removed and temporarily replaced by something more accepted by the community, at least HA would be somewhat playable. I'm not trying to say that HA is more important then anything else, but why go up a mountain when you can have the same results by going up a hill?