As many people have already stated, Ecto is a rare material, it is not, nor was it ever intended to be used as currency. If you kept a ton of ecto around without ever realizing the price could change dramatically you kinda deserve to lose your money.
There are plenty of other things you could have invested in that wouldn't cause you to lose money (ie. things like lockpicks). But no, you didn't. And, yes it would be a lot more work for you to invest in something other than ectos but hey nobody ever said life was easy.
You chose not to invest safely and securely. You, and only you, risked your money when you didn't immediately sell the ectos as soon as you received them.
Anet has restrictions on the amount of money you can hold on characters, on accounts and for trading purposes. This was no accident. They have done this on purpose because it is how they want their game to be. No harm in asking them to change it, but don't be surprised when they don't.
And finally, want to know why the price is dropping? Obviously people have sold tremendous amounts of ectos back to merchants lately. Don't blame Anet for prices dropping, blame your fellow fat cats for making the bottom drop out of the market. And further blame them for not keeping you in the loop about the sell off.
Ecto price is concerning you too?
Amorfati87
vdz
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
As many people have already stated, Ecto is a rare material, it is not, nor was it ever intended to be used as currency. If you kept a ton of ecto around without ever realizing the price could change dramatically you kinda deserve to lose your money.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
There are plenty of other things you could have invested in that wouldn't cause you to lose money (ie. things like lockpicks). But no, you didn't. And, yes it would be a lot more work for you to invest in something other than ectos but hey nobody ever said life was easy.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
You chose not to invest safely and securely. You, and only you, risked your money when you didn't immediately sell the ectos as soon as you received them.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
Anet has restrictions on the amount of money you can hold on characters, on accounts and for trading purposes. This was no accident. They have done this on purpose because it is how they want their game to be. No harm in asking them to change it, but don't be surprised when they don't.
And finally, want to know why the price is dropping? Obviously people have sold tremendous amounts of ectos back to merchants lately. Don't blame Anet for prices dropping, blame your fellow fat cats for making the bottom drop out of the market. And further blame them for not keeping you in the loop about the sell off. |
The only ppl who made ecto drop are BOT farmers since they invested in ecto to and not yankee 3 who has 2 stacks. GG
Amorfati87
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Originally Posted by vdz
Oh is it not? Then tell why does the RARE material trader sells them and not the material trader? I bet you never farmed uw, 2% change it drops from Aatxe and Smites so yes it is RARE and not COMMEN. Its not Bolth of Cloth. And what do you define as RARE? Since the start of GW it has been used as a currency and denying that would be silly. Saying things like HUH HUH you shouldnt have used it as a currency is just dumb. When ppl ask 100k+ecto for almost everything in the high end area. Should i say to them, urm i have bolth of cloth instead, you accept that?
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Originally Posted by vdz
You started playing GW short after HM?
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Originally Posted by vdz
Urm investing is never save. Investing means taking risk but i guess you already knew that...
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Originally Posted by vdz
with people you aim on those who have more gold than you? Cant stand it?
The only ppl who made ecto drop are BOT farmers since they invested in ecto to and not yankee 3 who has 2 stacks. GG |
Is how much gold I have really important? I think you are trying to say BOT farmers sold off their ecto which made the price drop. I would hazard a guess that the BOT farmers aren't around long enough to store a ton of stuff. Would probably be bad for business if you had a character full on gold AND ectos and for it to be banned. So I'm thinking BOT farmers probably deal strictly in gold, but I'm not a BOT farmer so I really have no clue how it works.
Also if BOT farmers are ruining the price of ectos that just shows how truly dangerous they are, and they should be stopped. Which, btw, ANET is doing.
AxeMe
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
Yes but there are certainly more "safe" ways to invest. Ecto has always fluctuated in price which IMO makes it a bad investment.
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vdz
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
Hence why I called it RARE material. Just because people have used it as currency since the beginning of time doesn't make it currency.
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
Does it really matter when I started? But for the sake of argument, I've been playing the game about 1 year and 10 months. I used "something like lockpicks" because that is something that is already being discussed. You could just as easlily have used a Vial of Ink or Clay Bricks.
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
Yes but there are certainly more "safe" ways to invest. Ecto has always fluctuated in price which IMO makes it a bad investment.
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Originally Posted by Amorfati87
I really have no idea what you are saying here. Tip: Type a little slower, read back what you type before posting.
Is how much gold I have really important? I think you are trying to say BOT farmers sold off their ecto which made the price drop. I would hazard a guess that the BOT farmers aren't around long enough to store a ton of stuff. Would probably be bad for business if you had a character full on gold AND ectos and for it to be banned. So I'm thinking BOT farmers probably deal strictly in gold, but I'm not a BOT farmer so I really have no clue how it works. Also if BOT farmers are ruining the price of ectos that just shows how truly dangerous they are, and they should be stopped. Which, btw, ANET is doing. |
Yes i was saying that BOT farmers sold a shitload of their ecto after the loot scale nerve. Is it that hard to imagine they invested in ecto when they only have a max amount of 1000k in their storage just like us? Even if they have multiple accounts.....
Stealthc
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Originally Posted by vdz
So when materials fluctuates its a bad investment? I dont think so. You buy them when they are low and sell them when they are up again.... And when they go down you just wait untill they go up again.. But this time it went down duo to another reason then just "economic" trends and im afraid it will never go up again.
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This thread should be closed as it is nothing more than a whiny rant because someone is no longer 200k richer.
Amorfati87
No chance of gain for sure. But there is also no chance for loss.
This is in direct response to people complaining about losing money because the price of ectos went down. Nobody wants to take responsibility for the risk that they took willingly.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That is the nature of investing. So please don't cry every time you lose money.
There's no crying in baseball!
This is in direct response to people complaining about losing money because the price of ectos went down. Nobody wants to take responsibility for the risk that they took willingly.
Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That is the nature of investing. So please don't cry every time you lose money.
There's no crying in baseball!
Jetdoc
I am in the camp that lower ecto prices is a good thing.
I personally am loving the drop, as my upcoming FoW pants/boots just got a whole helluva lot cheaper for my ranger.
GW has never been about investments. If you have excess cash, simply go out and buy something you like. If you can't find anything that you like...why do you have the cash in the first place?
I personally am loving the drop, as my upcoming FoW pants/boots just got a whole helluva lot cheaper for my ranger.
GW has never been about investments. If you have excess cash, simply go out and buy something you like. If you can't find anything that you like...why do you have the cash in the first place?
vdz
You still dont get the point. Its not about me losing money, i couldnt care less.
unbound00
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Originally Posted by vdz
It is used as a currency and its still being used as a currency and it will always be used as a currency. Again, denying this is plain stupid.
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Originally Posted by vdz
So when materials fluctuates its a bad investment? I dont think so. You buy them when they are low and sell them when they are up again.... And when they go down you just wait untill they go up again.. But this time it went down duo to another reason then just "economic" trends and im afraid it will never go up again.
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And also, I thought the whole point was that since the storage cap for money is 1000k than players had to store a valuable item to use as currency when the cap was met (in sotrage or trades), which has nothing to do with investment. You either invest on ectos in a chance that it will turn out profit when price goes up or you store something with a set value that will correspond to money when the cap is met, you can't have both things. So if you know it as an investment you can't complain that prices went down, you knew it was subject to fluctuate as a result on just about any unforeseen circunstance, just because you wished it would go up doesn't mean it couldn't go down. If you thought it was a safe way to make up for the trade/storage cap, think again, it wasn't, and nobody told it was, nobody planned it to be, and players just assumed it would be. Don't blame Anet for you not thinking things through.
Aerian_Skybane
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Originally Posted by vdz
Since the loot scale changes the ecto price has been dropping from 11k --> 6k trader price.
I know that the price of ecto always has fluctuated and especially in the beginning. But since factions it kept a steady lvl between 8-9k, and after NF it went up to 9-11k. Now, i know ANET thinks they did a very good job with their loot scale changes but what i see is total chaos. Since the max amount of gold you can save up is 1000k (dont ask me why) you will need to invest your gold in other things. The 2 most logical choices would be either Black dyes or Ecto. Now i want to ask ANET this... you force ppl to invest in other things cause A : Max amount is 1000k in storage B : cant trade more than 100k over trade. Is it fair that you backstab ppl by changing something in the loot scale that their investments are suddenly worth shit?!? (and no im not a guy who has 50 stacks of ecto and black dye) I think its not and the ecto price is really concerning me. I dont think it will go up anymore to the 8-9k but thats just a rough guess. |
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Originally Posted by vdz
You still dont get the point. Its not about me losing money, i couldnt care less.
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Also, learn to make an argument and NOT sound like you just drank off three absinthes.
This thread really should be closed because it is jut becoming VDZ contradicting himself and delving into stupid-poster world.
Krispy
Quite simply, this doesn't concern me in the least. I've got ~100 ecto, but I don't care what they're worth because I farmed them, rather than bought them. It's all profit for me if I sell them at 6k or 12k.
If anyone purchases ecto as a means to store cash above 1M gold, then they're taking the risk that they will fluctuate in price. That's the joy of investing. There's always a risk involved. Hell, IRL, cash isn't stable, neither is gold. They all fluctuate.
If anything, NOW is the time to buy ecto. As has been noted in other threads, the lowest the ecto price will go is roughly 7k at the trader, so they seem to have hit bottom. Good investors know to buy low/sell high. There's a good chance that a change will be made later that will cause the price to rise back to traditional 8-9k prices. That's good investing.
If anyone purchases ecto as a means to store cash above 1M gold, then they're taking the risk that they will fluctuate in price. That's the joy of investing. There's always a risk involved. Hell, IRL, cash isn't stable, neither is gold. They all fluctuate.
If anything, NOW is the time to buy ecto. As has been noted in other threads, the lowest the ecto price will go is roughly 7k at the trader, so they seem to have hit bottom. Good investors know to buy low/sell high. There's a good chance that a change will be made later that will cause the price to rise back to traditional 8-9k prices. That's good investing.
the_jos
People that have some economy knowledge could have know this would happen sometime.
The infamous 'tulip crash' in the Netherlands is a known historical example.
People that adopt a non-standard currency always face the risk of rappid devaluation.
It's been that way with tulips, sea shells, oil and a lot of other stuff.
There are certain things that do maintain value over time, but not much.
In a controled market, you will see that prices are relatively fixed.
You can see that in the diamond market, where a few companies control the market.
Gold value is relatively stable, since real money is still (partially) backed up by it.
Then there is stuff like oil. There are some parties 'in control of the market', but there are also other influences (weather, war).
Those can be explained by economic rules.
What happened in GW is that the players set the price of ecto.
When they got too expensive, no-one would buy and more would sell, lowering the price. When they got too cheap, people would stock them up.
There was no real demand for ecto's, except as currency and (far less, I think) as crafting material.
You can compare this to the 'dot-com bubble', where stock prices were sky high, but there was no real underlying value in the companies. It was all about expectations.
When things got bad a little, this caused a chain reaction.
With the current ecto crash, you can see the same.
People realise there is value at risk in 'investing' in ectos and move to safer investments (like lockpicks, which have a fixed trader value).
This causes more supply and less demand, hence lower prices.
I think the price will remain unstable for some time, but time learns that investors have a short memory.
Prices will go up again, as long as ectos will remain a form of currency.
But remember, there is no real value in ectos, except as crafting material.
So prices can go down again.
The infamous 'tulip crash' in the Netherlands is a known historical example.
People that adopt a non-standard currency always face the risk of rappid devaluation.
It's been that way with tulips, sea shells, oil and a lot of other stuff.
There are certain things that do maintain value over time, but not much.
In a controled market, you will see that prices are relatively fixed.
You can see that in the diamond market, where a few companies control the market.
Gold value is relatively stable, since real money is still (partially) backed up by it.
Then there is stuff like oil. There are some parties 'in control of the market', but there are also other influences (weather, war).
Those can be explained by economic rules.
What happened in GW is that the players set the price of ecto.
When they got too expensive, no-one would buy and more would sell, lowering the price. When they got too cheap, people would stock them up.
There was no real demand for ecto's, except as currency and (far less, I think) as crafting material.
You can compare this to the 'dot-com bubble', where stock prices were sky high, but there was no real underlying value in the companies. It was all about expectations.
When things got bad a little, this caused a chain reaction.
With the current ecto crash, you can see the same.
People realise there is value at risk in 'investing' in ectos and move to safer investments (like lockpicks, which have a fixed trader value).
This causes more supply and less demand, hence lower prices.
I think the price will remain unstable for some time, but time learns that investors have a short memory.
Prices will go up again, as long as ectos will remain a form of currency.
But remember, there is no real value in ectos, except as crafting material.
So prices can go down again.
vdz
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Originally Posted by Aerian_Skybane
Oh ok, then I guess you just like flogging yourself for the exercise then? If you didn't care about money, you wouldn't have posted this inane rant in the first place. I think you can't see a larger picture of potential, and that though it may be tough to change, there is a revolution for more stable currency place holders in the works. You are blaming Anet for economic loss. This thread wouldn't exist if you were making money off of Ectos. Instead, you are losing, and now you are blaming everyone but yourself. You mentioned earlier you understood the "stock" like currency economy of ectos. Then you really can't blame anything on anyone but yourself and the masses who dropped off their ectos at the first sign of change. Last I knew, Anet didn't ban anyone who didn't sell all their ectos with LS was released. Your initial argument is that Anet "nerfed" ectos through LS, of which you use as a stable economic filler. If you want stability, start buying and using lockpicks as money fillers. Ecto is fluctuation. Lockpicks aren't, and they have a high enough value as to not consume storage. If you want risk, go ecto, if you want stable money fillers, go something like lockpicks, or whatever. Thats the short and long of it, period. Thats the way economy works.
Also, learn to make an argument and NOT sound like you just drank off three absinthes. This thread really should be closed because it is jut becoming VDZ contradicting himself and delving into stupid-poster world. |
Dougal Kronik
I couldn't care less if ectos went down to 100g.
I sold the only 4 I've ever had, they were given to me, to get some gold to buy Cap sigs.
Change the player economy to trade in items that have a value that won't change based on supply and demand.
I sold the only 4 I've ever had, they were given to me, to get some gold to buy Cap sigs.
Change the player economy to trade in items that have a value that won't change based on supply and demand.
savage vapor 33
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Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik
I couldn't care less if ectos went down to 100g.
I sold the only 4 I've ever had, they were given to me, to get some gold to buy Cap sigs. Change the player economy to trade in items that have a value that won't change based on supply and demand. |
applejacks
My first instinct is to say: yay price drop, since I am an unlucky player drop-wise. However those rare times I do get a good drop, I would enjoy selling it for a good amount. The first time I got a sup vig rune, I was elated, an easy 30k for my coffers. The second time it was sold at 16k. Still good, but in the end not the best. Same with the one black dye I ever found.
But I do kinda agree with your post. Some things I like to work for, it makes it more satisfying in the end. Same with drops. Even if good drops are rare for me, when I do get them, it is very satisfying.
As for ectos, I understand people use it as a way to save up money, given the max money you can have stored. However, you are in a way playing the market and in this way, nothing is guaranteed. You took a chance because the market was stable at the time. Now it is not. Perhaps with GWEN it will re-stabalise.
But I do kinda agree with your post. Some things I like to work for, it makes it more satisfying in the end. Same with drops. Even if good drops are rare for me, when I do get them, it is very satisfying.
As for ectos, I understand people use it as a way to save up money, given the max money you can have stored. However, you are in a way playing the market and in this way, nothing is guaranteed. You took a chance because the market was stable at the time. Now it is not. Perhaps with GWEN it will re-stabalise.
Chop it Off
if my memory serves me correct, material trader prices fluctuate with supply and demand, correct?
so if prices are low, it means more ectos are coming in, then being sold.
probably due to excessive farming.
i say excessive farming for one reason.
nightfall has been out long enough for people to of gotten all their characters thru all the campaigns.
being bored with nothing to do, the non-pvper's go farming. best place to farm is underworld and fow.
so the only people to blame for ectos dropping in price is the farmers.
loot scaling has nothing to do with it, imho, because drops are still the same down there. hard or normal mode. atleast for me.
i haven't noticed any significant increase if drops since hard mode.
so if prices are low, it means more ectos are coming in, then being sold.
probably due to excessive farming.
i say excessive farming for one reason.
nightfall has been out long enough for people to of gotten all their characters thru all the campaigns.
being bored with nothing to do, the non-pvper's go farming. best place to farm is underworld and fow.
so the only people to blame for ectos dropping in price is the farmers.
loot scaling has nothing to do with it, imho, because drops are still the same down there. hard or normal mode. atleast for me.
i haven't noticed any significant increase if drops since hard mode.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Stealthc
So wait for them to go up again, if they don't go up again, well you made a bad investment then didn't you.
This thread should be closed as it is nothing more than a whiny rant because someone is no longer 200k richer. |
One stack of ecto @ 7k is 1.75 million in GW money.. this was as of 3 days ago. Today one stack of ecto @ 5.5k is 1.375k. There are people in this game that have stacks of ecto.... so yes if you had millions invested into say a stock or a money market account and suddenly lost 21.5% of your investment, youd be asking questions too.
Gun Pierson
We've had some nice theories and opinions so far, but nobody mentioned Anet. They control most of the market imo. They introduced loot scaling because too much new gold was braught in. They could aswell let ecto prices drop over a month or so, so everybody thinks it's supply and demand amongst players.
Gun Pierson
We've had some nice theories and opinions so far, but nobody mentioned Anet. They control most of the market imo. They introduced loot scaling because too much new gold was brought in. They could aswell let ecto prices drop over a month or so, so everybody thinks it's supply and demand amongst players.
WarKaster
this would have never happened if they would have put the platinum coin into the game. 1 plat. coin = 1000 gold whats more stable than that.
As far as ecto's go never really felt an interest to spend money on what is essentially an over price booger. Not to mention the only use for it is FoW Armor again which in my opinion pretty damn ugly.
As far as ecto's go never really felt an interest to spend money on what is essentially an over price booger. Not to mention the only use for it is FoW Armor again which in my opinion pretty damn ugly.
Aerian_Skybane
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
We've had some nice theories and opinions so far, but nobody mentioned Anet. They control most of the market imo. They introduced loot scaling because too much new gold was braught in. They could aswell let ecto prices drop over a month or so, so everybody thinks it's supply and demand amongst players.
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Player controlled economy conspiracies are something we can deal with though, make people aware etc etc. Even if its not a conspiracy letting people (vdz) understand how a society run economy works is ultimately beneficial, no matter how moronic the ignorant are.
w00t!
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Originally Posted by AxeMe
You have it backwards - the fact that it fluctuates in price actually makes it an investment. The whole notion of the stock market, for instance, is based on price fluctuations. Things that do not fluctuate in price are horrible investments since there is no movement in price - so no chance of gain. And that's what makes something an investment.
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Listen to AxeMe. He knows what he's talking about.
Now, since I'm a bit of a blowhard, I'll add my two cents. For background purposes, I have an MBA in Investment Theory and am a licensed Commodities Broker (series 7).
My belief that the reason that ectos have dropped in value is that their supply has remained constant while the supply of cash has dropped. This has also caused general deflation, which really isn't a problem.
Most savvy traders converted their holdings to cash, if they had the space. Being a person without a lot of ectos (I hate solo farming), I began to sell off many of my more valuable items. I expect that the value of most everything will drop as people hoard gold.
I also expect that certain values will rise soon as people start learning more about GWEN.
Guild Wars has a wonderful economy, as evidenced by the fluctuations in market value of items that Anet never intended as commodities.
As Spock would say, "Fascinating".
I Will Heal You Ally
You know... I think Rubies are gonna take over the lead from ectos :P
tyche7
No it isn't concerning to me.
However if it drops below 1k per ecto -- I'll be concerned. Till then..meh.
However if it drops below 1k per ecto -- I'll be concerned. Till then..meh.
Aikawa
Doubt they are going back up again. As someone else already mentioned there wont be any new professions in EotN. Alot of the longer playing people who wanted fow for their characters already have it so having ecto is becoming kinda pointless. Sure its used as a currency but only by the grace of people actually wanting ectos. And that is changing now I think. Individuals cant set prices for items, supply and demand does. Some people want ecto to stay 10k for eternity for convenient piggy banking sake. The merchant however now sells em for 6k. Time for a new piggy?
Aikawa
Aikawa
Sir Skullcrasher
If ectos prices ever went below 1K, than it's time to be concern for me.
Nuclear Eclipse
I dont think ectos could go as low as 1k because then thousands of people would buy FoW, and thus remove hundreds of thousands of ectos from circulation, wich would send demand back up.
Ectos always go up and down, I have no doubt they'll go back up. If they don't, then I'd just get FoW I guess.
Ectos always go up and down, I have no doubt they'll go back up. If they don't, then I'd just get FoW I guess.
Sir Skullcrasher
I wonder why diamonds, rubies and sapphires has been stable in prices?
Psuedo Halgoen
There was a guy a while back who said that he and his guild had been trying to hold the prices of diamonds by, buying and selling them at particular times.
I really wouldn't be surprised if there are several groups in gw doing this to all manner of things.
I really wouldn't be surprised if there are several groups in gw doing this to all manner of things.
Foe
there are no player guilds or groups that effect the price of anything
Sir Skullcrasher
I agree otherwise peoples would find a way to bump ecto's prices back to 11k!
Smile Like Umean It
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Originally Posted by tyche7
No it isn't concerning to me.
However if it drops below 1k per ecto -- I'll be concerned. Till then..meh. |
Batou of Nine
I dont know if it has already been said or not, but:
The main reason ecto prices have been dropping so dramatically is because the bot farming population has moved into UW, big time. Since bots used to rely heavily on the amount of crap drops to sell to the merchent, it is now incredibly unefficient to farm for merchent fodder now adays.
So now the bot population has moved into UW in DROVES. These droves have alternately been selling masses and masses of ecto to the Rare Material Trader. This is what is the bulk of the cause for the massive ecto price drops. I won't call this fact, but i will say this out of long observations, and intelligent thought about the detriments of loot scaling. No doubt, it may very well be fact.
So in the end, if the above is true, Anet has actually hurt their own economy while trying to nerf bot farmers. The GW economy will probably recover somewhat, but for now, BUY THOSE ECTO! lol... investments ftw!
My 2.
cheers.
The main reason ecto prices have been dropping so dramatically is because the bot farming population has moved into UW, big time. Since bots used to rely heavily on the amount of crap drops to sell to the merchent, it is now incredibly unefficient to farm for merchent fodder now adays.
So now the bot population has moved into UW in DROVES. These droves have alternately been selling masses and masses of ecto to the Rare Material Trader. This is what is the bulk of the cause for the massive ecto price drops. I won't call this fact, but i will say this out of long observations, and intelligent thought about the detriments of loot scaling. No doubt, it may very well be fact.
So in the end, if the above is true, Anet has actually hurt their own economy while trying to nerf bot farmers. The GW economy will probably recover somewhat, but for now, BUY THOSE ECTO! lol... investments ftw!
My 2.
cheers.
I MP I
No. Ecto price doesn't concern me. In fact I laugh at the fact it dropped so much. Glad I sold my stock of it before it dropped. In fact after buying everything that exists in this game (aside from tormented weapons) hard gold currency became a must-have for me. Not like it matters at this point really, after all its just a game. Only the company making the game profits.
kooomar
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Originally Posted by Foe
there are no player guilds or groups that effect the price of anything
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Though it may seem like you alone have no impact on the GW economy, if you have a bulk amount of something, you do. Not TOO long ago (before hard mode I believe) The ectos glitched up to 16k to buy form the merch. So, at this high price, you could sell for around 10k, which was around, if not higher, than the average player was paying.
At the time, I had about 400 ectos, and needed some cash, so, I started the process of rapid clicking. Though I am obviously not the only person that did this, I dont think the majority of GW has stacks of ectos to sell. But, sure enough, in a very short amount of time, the ectos had restabilized due to everyone selling theirs to the merchant.
It does seem odd that a guild would undergo the task of moderating a useless commodity's price which would be EXTREMELY hard. But, to each his own.
Thats my 2 cents.
Trylo
as far as i see it... you should not be concerned by ecto prices. they are, after all, an investment. its like stocks, you buy a lot and hope they go up (kind abad example but you get the jist). either buy lockpicks or take some business classes 
elevenfifty5
Chilblains + Dying Nightmare
Neo Nugget
no way im concerned lol. More price drop= faster assassin FoW for me