No one beleives rits can heal!?
TGgold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toilet Oni
A common technique for killing healers: Attack a rather usless target, make them healers waist their energy and spells on you target, now you run and attack the healer. make sense dosent it?
Edit: spelled sense wrong
Um...don't you think we'd realize that? O_o And also, our recharges are pretty fast on al of our skills. You'd have about a 5 second window from the casting of weapon of warding on the first target to get to me and unleash the spike. Now, assuming i have half a brain and am staying at the edge of my healing range of whoever your warrior was harassing previously, and also that I have a common knowledge of kiting. Tell me how in the world you plan on getting to me with my pants down. =)
Edit: spelled sense wrong
Um...don't you think we'd realize that? O_o And also, our recharges are pretty fast on al of our skills. You'd have about a 5 second window from the casting of weapon of warding on the first target to get to me and unleash the spike. Now, assuming i have half a brain and am staying at the edge of my healing range of whoever your warrior was harassing previously, and also that I have a common knowledge of kiting. Tell me how in the world you plan on getting to me with my pants down. =)
ArKaiN
Quote:
Originally Posted by frojack
RoF negates damage (upto it's heal amount) and heals even without DF. Vengeful only steals life but doesn't negate any damage. this life steal happens 'after' the initial damage. If the initial damage kills you you will lose the opportunity to steal life.
In short, RoF can save you from death. Vengeful can not. RoF is better than Vengeful Weapon. Divine favour or not.
I'm a fan of both but these are the facts... Accordingly to the description, you should be correct.
Only you're not. I'm not sure why, but that's just not how it works. I use a 105 life build on my Rt for farming and if I'm at 1 life and I activate vengeful or VwK the next hit heals me, not kills me. Want a real reason why RoF sometimes outperforms vengeful? You're not always gonna get hit for 60 or so damage.
In short, RoF can save you from death. Vengeful can not. RoF is better than Vengeful Weapon. Divine favour or not.
I'm a fan of both but these are the facts... Accordingly to the description, you should be correct.
Only you're not. I'm not sure why, but that's just not how it works. I use a 105 life build on my Rt for farming and if I'm at 1 life and I activate vengeful or VwK the next hit heals me, not kills me. Want a real reason why RoF sometimes outperforms vengeful? You're not always gonna get hit for 60 or so damage.
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
Accordingly to the description, you should be correct.
Only you're not. I'm not sure why, but that's just not how it works. I use a 105 life build on my Rt for farming and if I'm at 1 life and I activate vengeful or VwK the next hit heals me, not kills me. Want a real reason why RoF sometimes outperforms vengeful? You're not always gonna get hit for 60 or so damage. Hmm... That's peculiar. I've always observed the opposite (I use it quite a lot). I will test your '1 hp' theory. Since your so certain I am probably mistaken and the order is indeed the opposite.
Still, it changes little. Especially with DF...
Only you're not. I'm not sure why, but that's just not how it works. I use a 105 life build on my Rt for farming and if I'm at 1 life and I activate vengeful or VwK the next hit heals me, not kills me. Want a real reason why RoF sometimes outperforms vengeful? You're not always gonna get hit for 60 or so damage. Hmm... That's peculiar. I've always observed the opposite (I use it quite a lot). I will test your '1 hp' theory. Since your so certain I am probably mistaken and the order is indeed the opposite.
Still, it changes little. Especially with DF...
KikiRae
I'll be counting the days when rit's take monks spots in GvG.
'Nuff said.
'Nuff said.
Toilet Oni
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGgold
Um...don't you think we'd realize that? O_o And also, our recharges are pretty fast on al of our skills. You'd have about a 5 second window from the casting of weapon of warding on the first target to get to me and unleash the spike. Now, assuming i have half a brain and am staying at the edge of my healing range of whoever your warrior was harassing previously, and also that I have a common knowledge of kiting. Tell me how in the world you plan on getting to me with my pants down. =)
with KD m8! 
and also, you want to be careful when kiting a shock-axe warrior.
and also, you want to be careful when kiting a shock-axe warrior.
Mekkakat
this is my opinions based off of my extensive rit play.
the ritualist allows you to micromanage more field control, rather than to base support from an energy pool, whereas a monk simply pumps out health at the constant dangerous cost of his own energy.
a ritualist can be versitile in the sense of what style of healing as well, just like a monk, but with all of the monks attribute lines in one group.
ex.
VwK>SoJ
RoF (personal taste, and i'll tell you why in a second) VW/WoR
Guardian<WoW
SoR<RW (yes, i honestly believe resil is better. its nonelite, and i have more on it)
***this is all based off of my exp in both pvp/pve, no reason to flame if you dont agree
a monk can take a beating, and hopefully can keep that crazed warrior out of his/her face, but lets compair common styles of play/situations
SoR monk getting slammed by that same shock axe. first off, i think this build sucks. SoR is too predictible, and a good ranger/mes/sin will just stop it, second, its such a gimmick off of the already broken GolE. it eats damage with its +40 al, but in the long run, its a monster on energy pool management.
compare this to the rit who knows how to properly use RW. resil gives a mad boost to armor/regen for little cost, and with renewing memories, you can have it on the whole team in seconds if you like. its nonelite, allowing room for great moves like spirit offering, preservation, or WoR.
another ex. imagine a monk relying on RoF. great, classic move.. but does it really deter people from maiming you? monks only use energy in vain when being attacked, because you'd have to be one idiot of a warrior to stop attacking during Guardian, seeing as it last for a measly 5 seconds, wheras WoW.. well.. you get the point. RoF will save you, VW/WoR wont.. or will it?
get a warrior on you, you boost hp with WoR/VW, see how long he'll like losing his hp to your Grenth style healing, and then we'll see where they compare. VW/WoR are commonly thought of as "healing" moves, when in fact, this is the aspect of "smiting" (remember, rits get ALL of the attributes monks do, but in ONE attribute line). VW/WoR/VwK are all basically smiting skills, that you can choose, or choose not to use, because almost all of the resto moves are great.
the healing skills have little downtime, none more than 5 seconds, and you can manage energy to the max extenet with some fun conditional toys, like holding Generous (an AMAZING self heal/emergency tool), and using soothing memories with channeling on. practically a free heal with your energy regen pipping through your cast time.
just my take on it. i like being more versitile, without spending on 4-5 att lines. i.e. divine/heal/prot/ect.
the ritualist allows you to micromanage more field control, rather than to base support from an energy pool, whereas a monk simply pumps out health at the constant dangerous cost of his own energy.
a ritualist can be versitile in the sense of what style of healing as well, just like a monk, but with all of the monks attribute lines in one group.
ex.
VwK>SoJ
RoF (personal taste, and i'll tell you why in a second) VW/WoR
Guardian<WoW
SoR<RW (yes, i honestly believe resil is better. its nonelite, and i have more on it)
***this is all based off of my exp in both pvp/pve, no reason to flame if you dont agree
a monk can take a beating, and hopefully can keep that crazed warrior out of his/her face, but lets compair common styles of play/situations
SoR monk getting slammed by that same shock axe. first off, i think this build sucks. SoR is too predictible, and a good ranger/mes/sin will just stop it, second, its such a gimmick off of the already broken GolE. it eats damage with its +40 al, but in the long run, its a monster on energy pool management.
compare this to the rit who knows how to properly use RW. resil gives a mad boost to armor/regen for little cost, and with renewing memories, you can have it on the whole team in seconds if you like. its nonelite, allowing room for great moves like spirit offering, preservation, or WoR.
another ex. imagine a monk relying on RoF. great, classic move.. but does it really deter people from maiming you? monks only use energy in vain when being attacked, because you'd have to be one idiot of a warrior to stop attacking during Guardian, seeing as it last for a measly 5 seconds, wheras WoW.. well.. you get the point. RoF will save you, VW/WoR wont.. or will it?
get a warrior on you, you boost hp with WoR/VW, see how long he'll like losing his hp to your Grenth style healing, and then we'll see where they compare. VW/WoR are commonly thought of as "healing" moves, when in fact, this is the aspect of "smiting" (remember, rits get ALL of the attributes monks do, but in ONE attribute line). VW/WoR/VwK are all basically smiting skills, that you can choose, or choose not to use, because almost all of the resto moves are great.
the healing skills have little downtime, none more than 5 seconds, and you can manage energy to the max extenet with some fun conditional toys, like holding Generous (an AMAZING self heal/emergency tool), and using soothing memories with channeling on. practically a free heal with your energy regen pipping through your cast time.
just my take on it. i like being more versitile, without spending on 4-5 att lines. i.e. divine/heal/prot/ect.
Toilet Oni
Considering that RW is not a elite skill, its a very good skill. But then again, removing the hex'es and conditions is way better than covering em with 24armor and 6regen.
But if you dont have the capacity to remove em all, RW i a good chooise
But if you dont have the capacity to remove em all, RW i a good chooise
LifeInfusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKill97
As much I'd like to say PvE (hard mode) is too easy, it's not like you can beat everything with crappy bars and without dying even once, so there is a difference who's healing and/or protecting my arse.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mekkakat
VwK>SoJ
RoF (personal taste, and i'll tell you why in a second) VW/WoR Guardian<WoW SoR<RW (yes, i honestly believe resil is better. its nonelite, and i have more on it) ***this is all based off of my exp in both pvp/pve, no reason to flame if you dont agree a monk can take a beating, and hopefully can keep that crazed warrior out of his/her face, but lets compair common styles of play/situations SoR monk getting slammed by that same shock axe. first off, i think this build sucks. SoR is too predictible, and a good ranger/mes/sin will just stop it, second, its such a gimmick off of the already broken GolE. it eats damage with its +40 al, but in the long run, its a monster on energy pool management. compare this to the rit who knows how to properly use RW. resil gives a mad boost to armor/regen for little cost, and with renewing memories, you can have it on the whole team in seconds if you like. its nonelite, allowing room for great moves like spirit offering, preservation, or WoR. another ex. imagine a monk relying on RoF. great, classic move.. but does it really deter people from maiming you? monks only use energy in vain when being attacked, because you'd have to be one idiot of a warrior to stop attacking during Guardian, seeing as it last for a measly 5 seconds, wheras WoW.. well.. you get the point. RoF will save you, VW/WoR wont.. or will it? get a warrior on you, you boost hp with WoR/VW, see how long he'll like losing his hp to your Grenth style healing, and then we'll see where they compare. VW/WoR are commonly thought of as "healing" moves, when in fact, this is the aspect of "smiting" (remember, rits get ALL of the attributes monks do, but in ONE attribute line). VW/WoR/VwK are all basically smiting skills, that you can choose, or choose not to use, because almost all of the resto moves are great. the healing skills have little downtime, none more than 5 seconds, and you can manage energy to the max extenet with some fun conditional toys, like holding Generous (an AMAZING self heal/emergency tool), and using soothing memories with channeling on. practically a free heal with your energy regen pipping through your cast time. just my take on it. i like being more versitile, without spending on 4-5 att lines. i.e. divine/heal/prot/ect. Who uses VwK and SoJ outside of farming? 5 regen from Resilient weapon doesn't save you from a sin. sins operate on high +attack damages, which are armor ignoring. Weapon of Warding on the other hand, might save you if they don't use expose defenses. What half decent monk uses Glyph of lesser energy and Shield of Regeneration to tank a warrior? A hammer warrior no less. That's a strawman argument. That's like someone saying using Life + Consume soul instead of heal party. Besides, saying a Ritualist has little downtime is kind of wrong. Monk skills have 3-4 second downtimes which is more or less the same thing as Ritualist skills. The craptastic Glimmer of Light recharges in 2 seconds, Dwayna's Kiss charges in 3. Monks can use channeling too. That is a mesmer skill. What half decent monk uses 4 attribute lines?
frojack
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKaiN
Accordingly to the description, you should be correct.
Only you're not. I'm not sure why, but that's just not how it works. I use a 105 life build on my Rt for farming and if I'm at 1 life and I activate vengeful or VwK the next hit heals me, not kills me. Want a real reason why RoF sometimes outperforms vengeful? You're not always gonna get hit for 60 or so damage. You were right! That's fantastic! I never realised it before (I guess being that low and surviving is rare ). So WoR/VW 'does' save you from death. In a similar fashion to RoF. I did the '1 hp' tests.It would appear the damage exchange happens at exactly the same time with no apparent order, and your well-being is determined by the final numbers. I likely attributed damage generally exceeding the healing package of the weapons spells to their seeming inability to save you from death. Where as RoF always seemed to do just that, while in reality it's healing package is just far superior while having almost the same functionality. Very interesting. Really goes to show how strong prot is. RoF negates damage equal to the amount it heals for, then heals on top of that. Never mind the DF bonus. In comparison the weapons are just far worse. The offensive nature of them kinda' makes up for it, but by how much? Not a lot in my opinion. Prot is so over-powered, it's infuriatingly biased design ^_^.
Mekkakat
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Flame djinns in packs of 3-4 in Hard mode.
Who uses VwK and SoJ outside of farming? 5 regen from Resilient weapon doesn't save you from a sin. sins operate on high +attack damages, which are armor ignoring. Weapon of Warding on the other hand, might save you if they don't use expose defenses. What half decent monk uses Glyph of lesser energy and Shield of Regeneration to tank a warrior? A hammer warrior no less. That's a strawman argument. That's like someone saying using Life + Consume soul instead of heal party. Besides, saying a Ritualist has little downtime is kind of wrong. Monk skills have 3-4 second downtimes which is more or less the same thing as Ritualist skills. The craptastic Glimmer of Light recharges in 2 seconds, Dwayna's Kiss charges in 3. Monks can use channeling too. That is a mesmer skill. What half decent monk uses 4 attribute lines? first off, this is the campfire, which is pve, second, i was simply compairing skills to monks skills, not even putting them in situational subjects as far as SoJ to VwK. on top of that, tons of monks use SoR paired with GolE in many situations, so that point is totally invalid. rits have also been said to have bad downtime with heals, which is incorrect, i simply said they have great recharges, can continue healing, and keep good consistency in battle. Glimmer sucks, and dwanyas is a bad example if you say that resil is a bad move. dwanyas is based off of how poorly you let your team do, and to me, sucks. also, im aware channeling is a mesmer move, it simply has much more synergy with resto rits than it does with protters. and finally, what good monk DOESNT use 4 att lines, or at least 3 with a 4 sets skills? Gift-healing divine-obviously prot-main skill set utility-your choice what game do you play?? Toilet Oni
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
RoF will save you, VW/WoR wont.. or will it?
lets take the worst case scenari, you are at 1 hp and a Lightning Orb or is flying towards your face, you use WV, 57-75=-18hp
With RoF it will look like this 76-56=20hp Do you prefer to do 57 lame dmg to your target and die?, or do u prefer to live? ArKaiN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toilet Oni
lets take the worst case scenari, you are at 1 hp and a Lightning Orb or is flying towards your face, you use WV, 57-75=-18hp
With RoF it will look like this 76-56=20hp Do you prefer to do 57 lame dmg to your target and die?, or do u prefer to live? You, my friend, are a Sophist. Lets say you're at 60 life, there's an assassin hitting you and he's at 30 life. What do you prefer, killing him, or living to get hit another time then die? Then he heals, and kills your whole team. There, you not using VW just cost your team the match.
RoadKill97
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Flame djinns in packs of 3-4 in Hard mode.
Flame djinns are warriors.
There are never more than two of Ruby or Immolated djinns in one group, and usually there is only one of those djinns. The groups triggered by touching either of the "Do Not Touch" treasures are an exception. Both Ruby and Immolated djinns are defensively weak, so offensive is your best defensive, not bringing something like Recovery. (Sorry for off-topic.)
LifeInfusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
and finally, what good monk DOESNT use 4 att lines, or at least 3 with a 4 sets skills? Gift-healing divine-obviously prot-main skill set utility-your choice what game do you play?? |
I have never seen SoJ /VwK outside of farm builds. Please enlighten me.
I haven't seen GoLE + SoR used ever since GoLE was moved to Energy storage. But that's just me. More so, I haven't seen people try to tank hammer warriors using Shield of Regen either.
If by great recharges you mean "more or less the same recharge as monk prots"...
Reversal of Fortune =2 --> less than Vengeful Weapon
Guardian =2 --> less than Weapon of Warding's 5secs
Dwayna's Kiss =3 --> same as Mend Body and Soul /Ghost Mirror Light
Light of Deliverance=5 --> way less than Protective was Kaolai
Gift of Health =5 --> more than Spirit Light, same as Soothing Memories
Dismiss Condition =3
Wielder's Boon =4
I really don't know why I even bothered comparing the recharges, as the usage of the skills isn't even the same.
Regarding consistency, of course they are consistent. The heals are more or less fixed except for Spirit Transfer/Spirit Light weapon and Vengeful Weapon/Weapon of Remedy.
Dwayna's reacts to prot. If you stack enchantments it heals for way more. Resilient weapon gives ~6 regen +24 armor for 10 energy and doesn't save someone if they got degen-ed by Corrupt enchantment and the like. Besides, not all hexes are lethal, and those trigger off Dwayna's Kiss as well. I really don't see how it sucks. I never said Resilient Weapon is a bad move, just that it isn't all that energy efficient as it is supposedly cut out to be.
You don't need to pump up 4 attribute lines of the monk, that was my point. In your post you said smiting/prot/divine/healing... Probably a misunderstanding
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RoadKill97
Flame djinns are warriors.
My mistake, I meant the Ruby djinn. Thanks for catching that one.
Toilet Oni
posted in the wrong thread
sorry
shoogi
u guys can spend all day long comparing rt's and monks, they both got their advantages and disadvantages.
I think that rt's are better healers, but their problem is that they rise and fall with their spirits. once u kill the spirits, the ritualist becomes useless (since about 90% of his skillbar will be boosted by a presence of a spirit). A ritualist advantage is that they dont use enchantments. (can also be a disadvantage in rare situations) Another ritualist advantage is spirit light (wupass skill). A monk advantage is hex removal skills which the ritualist lacks (must rely on second proffesion- monks, for example, can be secondary warriors for defense). So, basically, it all sums up to what ur build is. A rt will be ideal in builds like nr/tranq. a monk would be better in enchantment based, spirit-less builds. When it comes to pve, i prefer rt since the mobs aint wise enough to attack the spirits. and, SLW is a 1337 pve skill (tho i dont fancy depending on regen-healing, since it almost always ends up as a waste of energy). anyway, my pve ritualist is doing great in all aspects of pve. one last thing- as a response to what was said here, i think that rof is a very overrated skill. the problem about it is that u cant count on it- who knows if ur gonna catch the 100 dmg eviscerate or the 10 dmg wand? VW always heals its 60~, therefore it is much more reliable. (VW still isnt worth bringing, because of the presence of better weapon spells such as SLW, RW or WoS.)
Mekkakat
all i have to say is this. hardcore monk supporters would never play without a healer and a protter, and the same thing goes for rits. a rits is stupid if he tries to be both the spirit spammer and the healer, so chooe one or the other and synergize. you guys make it sound like the rit is a one man team.
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mekkakat
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by shoogi
once u kill the spirits, the ritualist becomes useless
...is rubbish. My restoration build utilises ONE spirit, Life, and if that isn't up, it's not "game over". I'm not "useless"... Sure you lose a little health with Spirit Light if there isn't a spirit around....but...YOU'RE THE HEALER. Just keep to the back and you'll be fine.
The whole "Rits are rubbish without spirits" debate is a load of nonsense. Rits are good without spirits, but with spirits, they're supreme.
Geishe
Spawning power buff to weapon spells makes Weapon of Warding or Resilient Weapon extremely amazing.
Weapon of Shadow is also viable now. Trylo
well... i dont think it is implemented yet... but ive been goofing with a build in RA and its pretty much the most amazing healer ive seen in a loooong time
15 Spawning (to get 5e spells down to 2e), 13 Restoration, 4 WS [skill]Serpent's Quickness[/skill][skill]Attuned was Songkai[/skill][skill]Soothing Memories[/skill][skill]Wielder's Boon[/skill][skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill][skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill][skill]Resilient Weapon[/skill][skill]Weapon of Shadow[/skill] now weapon of shadow and weapon of warding are kinda redundant together, but its still nice to have both... so basically i can outheal almost anything, give weapon spells to the entire party and spike heal with wielder's... its very good and its a great utility healer. ive only really tested it in RA and TA, but ive been able to heal through anything really... 2 assassins on an ele? np, just use WoS or WoW. they just lost. its amazingly easy and fun. try it. now.  edit: I forgot to mention i was called a 'half-healer' before i even used any skills ... then i was the one keeping the monk alive... who eventually quit the game in denial...
ShadowsRequiem
I love healing with both monk and rit(<3Life), though many rit heals are more conditional then monks, but still both have there great uses.
But I still think that a monk can out heal a rit in a single spell :P
Master Ketsu
Rits are great healers. Weapon of warding is the best non elite block IMO since it cannot be removed, and mbs is non-elite restore condition when used correctly. But monks outdo rits in other forms of healing, so it all depends on your build. personally I Like 2 monks 1 rit, but thats just me. 2 rits one monk can work, 3 monks can work, 3 rits can work, hell you can 8 rit a pve mission if you wanted to. It all depends on your strategy.
Then again, In pve everyone seems to be in this mindset were their can only really be 1~3 differant builds for each class. Which is partially why I quit PvE and moved on to the battle Isles. I got tired of all the cookie-cutter-monkeys saying stupid shit like "ZOMG 2 RANGERS/NECROS/MESMERS/RITS/ASSASSINS IN A GROUP WONT WORK" or "OMG NEED 3 MONKS" and my personal favorite ( Since im a ranger ) "WTF NOOB JUST BE A B/P" ( barrage pet is overrated utter crap compared to a good ranger using a utility build ). Almost any class combination in a team can work if you actually took the time to think of a build AS A TEAM rather then just randomway pugging whatever the current balanceway is like most pve'rs do.
Melody Cross
Its not that rits can't heal; its that most teams would prefer them not to. Commune was given a massive buff in the lastest update, making the skills rits never wanted to play before some of the go to guys in PvP and PvE. they can pump out nearly 100 DPS armor ignoring pressure with just two spirits and a hex while--with item combos--AoE spike targets in the same build. Ot's like having a mini-MM and a weak ele nuker at the same time. There aren't many classes that can boast that kind of versatility in a single build.
But the other attributes are still solid. Commune has Displacment, one of the best team buffs in the game. A bar build to keep that alive is more prot than many NM groups need in most areas. And resto rits are the RC monk from Hell. Mend Body and Soul outstips other condi removals by a fair ammount in terms of healing, and Weapon spell spammers have seen play in top GvG matches as split healers. Weapon of Remedy is Reversal of Fortune with a nasty twist. Less healing, but it removes conditions and adds lifesteal pressure at the same time? yes please If Recovery is finally fixed then it would be overpowered in PvP and a super second Binding Ritual to bring in PvE. The only thing a rit can't do--within its own class--is remove hexes. Thats a turn off for a lot of players. They don't want 9 regen, they want that stuff OFF! Unfortunate for them, many PuG monks don't bring hex removal either. In NM, any monk that can't keep the team up with a rit backing it is cause for concern imo. Its been proven since back in prophecies that you don't even need a monk to do some of the hardest missions in the game. A monk and a rit are all the prot and heal an 8 man team will ever need in NM. In HM, I like a 3 monk backline or a 2-monk and rit. Lots of prot, huge heals and a happy ending for the group.
KlutzySpy
i would like to point out that a Rt is better at staying alive.. they have the Ghost Forge Armor +15 (while affected by a Weapon Spell) and Mystic's Armor +15 (while activating skills) insignia's that are really really good, while the monks have.. well.. crap like
Armor +10 (vs. elemental damage) Armor +15 (while affected by a Condition) Armor +5 (while recharging 1-3-5 or more Skills)
Shadowmere
Lots of good points here, figure I'll add my experience. So the story is, I get into a PUG on Boreas Seabed, there's a shortage of healers, so I pick up the slack and switch to a full set of resto skills (usually I run the default minion bomber stuff) about halfway through our 1 and only monk quits out, but we trudge on none the less, we get through it all, not a single death and masters time, with 1 (novice) rit healing. I think actions speak louder than words in this sutuation.
fripple
Quote:
Originally Posted by KlutzySpy
i would like to point out that a Rt is better at staying alive.. they have the Ghost Forge Armor +15 (while affected by a Weapon Spell) and Mystic's Armor +15 (while activating skills) insignia's that are really really good, while the monks have.. well.. crap like
Armor +10 (vs. elemental damage) Armor +15 (while affected by a Condition) Armor +5 (while recharging 1-3-5 or more Skills) More importantly, the rit can also turn all their healing on themselves when they need to. It's very difficult to kill a healing rit in pve without either killing off the rest of his team or hitting him with one of those random spikes you get in Factions. Ritualists are also a lot less likely to engage in lame-ass monk behavior, like leaving at the first sign of trouble or taking a build packed with 15-point spells and getting bitchy when someone asks if that's a good idea. Personally, I prioritize available ritualists over monks whenever possible; they're less headache.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by fripple
Ritualists are also a lot less likely to engage in lame-ass monk behavior, like leaving at the first sign of trouble or taking a build packed with 15-point spells and getting bitchy when someone asks if that's a good idea. Personally, I prioritize available ritualists over monks whenever possible; they're less headache.
This debate almost feels like it's deteriorated into something similar to luxons vs kurzicks.
ArKaiN
Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
This debate almost feels like it's deteriorated into something similar to luxons vs kurzicks.
/agree
its time to move on.
KlutzySpy
yeah i think ill switch from mystics to ghost forge, seeing at weaponspells just got a buff..
[skill]Vital Weapon[/skill] lasts like 1½ minute now, with real fast recharge.. its like a constant +75 armor :P
zling
for everyone who worries about rits and their immobile spirits take a look at Anet's solution: Summon Spirits
now you can easily move your spirits around and are as mobile as a monk with good healing/hybrid protection, union, shelter and stuff being the prot side in the hybrid version, works very nicely... and if you're unsatisfied with the rit's condition+hex removal you can always go mesmer/monk secondary to fix that
Master Ketsu
hehe ya, spawning power buff made vital weapon ftw.
fleshvirus
I Heal with my Ritu just fine. But the real problem with ritualists is that they are way too Unique. They Lack some Major Healing skills wich makes a monk dominate.
If GW:EN introduces us to some great healing spells for a ritualist, then there may be hope for them.
Marverick
Shame Ghost Forge's Insignia is +15 armor while affected by a chant for some reason...
chikorita23
Don't worry Trylo,
Of course Rt can heal! Rt is my 3rd favour class beside Mes and Ele. So I know every Rt builds. However, u can't expect every PuGs understand GW or study GW. Afterall general PuGs probably only accept Warrior, Fire Ele (and yes they don't prefer any other elements), Healing Monk and Necro MM or SS (and yes... that's the only 2 pugs are into!) I normally avoid PuGs... and I'm a lot happier playing with experiences guildies or simply just Hero+ henches! (heros with right skills and armor are so much reliable then pugs!) van
I have a monk which is my favorite chracter one of my most played characters so I tried decided to do something a little diffrent and made a Rt. I have been playing my Rt for 6-8 months and tried doing alot of channeling, and tried summoning spirits (kind of hard when you dont access to the better elites) But until recently I started going in restoration with weapon spells etc. I learned that the Rt is a better healer and somewhat better protector with the weapon spells.
Ankkasika
Ritualist:
+great red-bars-go-up healing +needs only one attribute to heal +some protective skills in the same attribute +no energy problems -weaker protective skills than a monk has -weaker removal -balanced by time (healing resources: energy, recharge, time) Monk: +decent to great red-bars-go-up +zero to great protection +can do both effectively at the same time +fast casting times -devoted to heal/prot -balanced by energy The main thing that keeps a ritualist worse in healing than a devoted healing monk is time. Easy-to-fulfill conditions which yet take time to fulfill and slower casting times in general. A monk needs his secondary for energy management to reach a ritualist, but a ritualist simply can't change the speed of his skills and instead would need his secondary for hex removal, still being unable to reach the monk. Not to mention that in 8v8 PvP, because of spikes, a monk will always be the better healer. But when you look at a different perspective, using only half of your skillbar for healing, taking one of those awesome ritualist res skills and some offensive utility, suddenly you reach the point where a monk is not strictly better than you, because you go out of the monk's territory. You still heal well and have a maxed healing attribute, but you help your team in other ways too. Ritualists are jacks of all trades like rangers, devoting yourself to the territories of other professions is foolish when you can never reach them in those. But take jobs of 2-3 professions that you can do well and run them at half their effectiveness, and suddenly you become useful as a midline charecter. (of course, devoting yourself to nothing and going too jack-of-all-trades destroys any hopes of effectiveness) Would you take a disease necro and an interrupt mesmer or a ranger that can do both decently at the same time? I would take the ranger in most cases. At the same time, would you take an elementalist or a pure channeling ritu? The ritu simply can't compete with the ele in pure damage-dealing. So yes, ritualists are powerful healers, but if you're looking for a pure healer, a monk is better. A ritualist is useful when the party is thinking something like "hm, we lack enchant removal but we also need more healing, should we take a monk or a mesmer?" If an Rt/Me can do both jobs well, why not take him instead?
Xeeron
If you are worried about Rts spike healing capability, take a look at [skill]Spirit Transfer[/skill]. Granted you need spirits, but that is usually fullfilled with Rts.
- Xeeron
Nightmare Venom
I know first hand that Ritualists can heal. I have been in a couple of teams with a Rt. on restoration, and they did a fantastic job at keep everyone alive. I have got a Rt myself and have thought about trying to heal with my Rt. I have sometimes went for nothing but spirits that protect to help out, and they certainly do help out.
Rt's can also use weapon spells on allies, Vital Weapon being one of my faves to use as it gives health, but add spirits that can heal the whole team: Life and Recuperation being two. A Rt can do just a good a job at healing as any monk Martyr of Divinity
I have around 7 mil xp on my monk, it was my first char ever created back in mid 2005. 1 mil xp on rit just recently created.
No. Chance. In. Hell. I could outheal my rit with my monk. Not even the slightest chance. Out prot, yes, by a good bit. Out red-bar-go-up? Not happening. I'm biased in favor of my monk cause he's kinda my baby, but a fact's a fact I'd just like to add that for a PuG I'd prefer a monk as a main healer still, due to the fact that they've been around since the start, they're easy to play, unconditional heals, and pretty basic/straight forward. Rit is a lot more involved and thus I would rather have a newb monk healing me than a newb rit.
Tab
Rits can heal alot better than monks. Keyword heal. However any decent monk will be protting, which rits cant do anywhere near as well.
However that's slightly irrelevant, as the average PUG won't even know what prot is and demand healing. As for why they want heal monks not rits? PUGs just ask for what they've heard of, not what works best. |
