Mesmer and SR changes June 7th update. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 00:12 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Energy every 5 seconds is NOT acceptable.
Energy 3 times every 15 seconds is NOT acceptable.
Energy from creatures dying, with no time restriction, but none from spirits and half from your own minions IS acceptable.

Make SR work the way it should work, not the way that PvP'ers want it to work. Are they purposely trying to kill Necromancers?

For the life of me I can't understand how any PvE Necro would have any energy problems whatsoever.

Before the nerf I was swimming in energy and never had to look at my bar. After the nerf the only time I have to look at my bar is when I'm playing a MM, and that's only to time my spellcasting. No more spamming 25 point spells I guess. Boo hoo.

Selena_Lionheart

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2005

Nova Alliance [Nova]

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:15 - 42

Ok, yea, leave soul reaping the way it bloody is... I'd rather have energy every five seconds then energy three times every 15...

I mean, come on, go in a party with a nuker and get three things dieing at once, bam, no energy for 15 seconds. Yea, thats so much better. It's like they are trying to piss us off, I actually checked to be sure today wasen't April first >.<

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:16 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

For the life of me I can't understand how any PvE Necro would have any energy problems whatsoever.

Before the nerf I was swimming in energy and never had to look at my bar. After the nerf the only time I have to look at my bar is when I'm playing a MM, and that's only to time my spellcasting. No more spamming 25 point spells I guess. Boo hoo.

Thats besides the point, no more minion masters now, espically in Ab.

KebabVan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 00:20 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

the people who see one thing that seems slightly overpowered and immediately demand a nerf before looking into it.
PvPers, but not all PvPers.

Ummm how about there was a gimmick of 5/6 n/rts, 1 ranger spirit spammer and a n/mo or two that dominated GvG for a month or more. 7 necros running off an army of spirits and minions dying meant infinate energy for them. Wash machine was the most infamous guild who reached r5 i think until the SR nerf when they had to change builds and promptly dropped out of the GvG scene altogether.

If you dont know anything about PvP then don't comment on it.

IMMORTAlMITCH

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Straight Outta Kamadan [KMD]

Me/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:21 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Who, among the player base, asked for SR to be changed in the first place?

SR was retarded, it shouldn't work on spirits period and only on minions you control.

People ran 8 necros with icy veins as their only necro skill and a million of spirits and had infinite energy from spirits dying..

Miss Persephone

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 00:24 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

Before the nerf I was swimming in energy and never had to look at my bar. After the nerf the only time I have to look at my bar is when I'm playing a MM, and that's only to time my spellcasting. No more spamming 25 point spells I guess. Boo hoo.

I think most people are less upset about the energy nerf, and more upset about the way they implemented it, i.e. stupid timer. I quote myself, from another thread:

Quote:

I also remember seeing the timer described by some ANet peep as less than elegant, so I am completley baffled as to why they left it in. VERY unimpressed that it took this long to implement this 'fix', and actually I think they just left the timer in so it doesn't look like they royally messed up the last SR update. I havn't seen one good reason to keep the timer. Trash it, now.

Regarding the mesmer changes, the ones I have seen so far are less than impressive. Seems very odd that the reduction rate for spells and signets is different under fast casting, and I don't see how the changes to far will help PvE mesmers.

Don't know about SR changes, but I tested activation times of signets and they have been decreased. Just compare the casting animations of a 1 second or 2 second skill with the casting animation of a 1 second or 2 second signet. Skills are unnaffected by FC, so you can easily see the difference.

Epinephrine

Master of Beasts

Join Date: Mar 2005

Ottawa, Canada

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

08 Jun 2007 at 00:29 - 47

SR was overpowered in PvE and in PvP. The fix was dumb. A better fix is needed, sure.

KebabVan

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 00:29 - 48

On another note, although practically all PvPers wanted an SR nerf, the most commonly requested one was that they dont recieve energy from spirits. The recieving it only every 5s came out of nowhere. Them changing it to three times every 15s is probably because in PvE usually big groups die all in quick succession so this will help the energy management in most cases.

I cant understand anyone who complains about SR every 5s anyway. I MM and SS all the time without any difficulty at all. Just dont spam all your spells expecting to have infinate energy.

On the mesmer update, looks very good. Sure it wont affect PvE but then mesmers have always been the worst profession in PvE - It is a PvP update. Will have to wait to see just how much it affects the effectiveness of paragons in pvp, but it will certainly counter them. M/P with signet of return going to be popular too.

Quantum Duck

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Err7

Me/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:32 - 49

Interesting stuff. Text and small changes from upcoming updates have leaked into earlier updates before, so I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of this is coming soon. Sounds like good stuff in general, though it's hard to say without seeing a full list and seeing it in action.

Series

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 00:32 - 50

This. Is. Ridiculous.

This is the worst thing Anet has ever done.

I don't think a single person can support this "fix" to soul reaping. This is just retarded. Did Izzy just learn his multiplication tables or something? Bah. Words can't express how disappointed I am. Hopefully Anet will NOT let this go live.

Does-it-Matter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:33 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Make SR work the way it should work, not the way that PvP'ers want it to work. Are they purposely trying to kill Necromancers?

Nice little nerf for the challenge missions too, there goes the LB/SS farm run out of Sahlahja. That was something I really enjoyed doing. Thank you Anet!

I swear this game gets worse every week.

Edit: OK, seems the challenge mission thing is a bug or whatever, HM will be re-added to those locations. But I am still not pleased with SR...

"Should" huh? According to you? So you don't want it to be the way PvPers want it, but the way YOU want it is ok? Alrighty.

It's -still- (using MM Heroes as a test) very easy to maintain the little globs of undeath. It's still easy to run SS builds. Any Necro build is doable, so long as the original intent does not involve "And I use my unlimited energy to..."

And yes, the Challenge mission was a decision, not a bug. According to Alex, they switched it off because they didn't seem to understand why a person would want to HINDER themselves by doing the CM in hard mode and not normal. They are going to switch it back after learning that people farm there.

And that's another nail in the coffin for those who say ANet doesn't like farming.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:34 - 52

Anet really hates pragon.

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 00:35 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Hmm the description of Soul reaping has changed I think..

For Each point in SR, you gain 1 energy whenever a creature near you dies. You may only gain energy in this way 3 times every 15 seconds, You only gain energy from Spirits you control..

Be interesting to see how it plays out. For example if 3 things die within 5 seconds, you'll have 10 seconds to go before getting any more.

Seem to help SS Necs in PvE maybe

And hot news Some mesmer interupts now affect Shouts and chants. Power block is now super evil. Power leak, return and spike all seem to do the same thing.
FC now also affects signets.

Still Going thru the list tho..

Thats Us fixed in PvE then.

According to wiki, the mechanics have not yet changed, just the text. The mesmer thing is kind of overpowered, and I doubt that will stay. As for the soul reaping nerf, that is just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded as it would only apply to n/rt spamming spirits...? Sure, nerf it for PvP, but not for everyone else... They seriously better not apply these changes.

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:37 - 54

lol @ soul reaping. just lol...

however, this...

Quote:

Spawning Power states that it increases weapon spell duration by 2% per rank.

is cool. primary attributes should indeed be useful all-around for a profession, and spawning power was rather weak. not useful at all unless you needed to use a spawning power skill or were built to spam spirits. and weapon spells have always been at a disadvantage since they're not enchantments and there's no way to increase their duration, and only beneficial because they can't be removed.

mesmer updates look good, however it seems to have buffed them more for PvP rather than PvE. these can't be all the PvE updates planned for the mesmer. if so...ugh.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:39 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohara

lol @ soul reaping. just lol...

however, this...

is cool. primary attributes should indeed be useful all-around for a profession, and spawning power was rather weak. not useful at all unless you needed to use a spawning power skill or were built to spam spirits.

mesmer updates look good, however it seems to have buffed them more for PvP rather than PvE. these can't be all the PvE updates planned for the mesmer. if so...ugh.

O we'll, let them rot

Geishe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

The Agonized

Rt/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 00:40 - 56

Ritualist Spawning power buff is greatly appreciated!!!

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:41 - 57

...And so begins another chapter of mindless complaining about soul reaping...*sigh*

Despite all those that think this SR change is part of some large conspiracy to make players unhappy for no apparent reason, I think that their reasoning behind this was to make the gain from soul reaping flow more in line with how enemies died, rather than on some 5 second timer. Is this the right fix? I doubt it, but I think it was at least done with good intentions. Unfortunately I think this is only going to fuel the fire of those who cry and pout about quitting just because they don't like what A-net did. Oh well, hopefully this will weed out all the childish brats that seem to plague pugs.

Angelica

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Aussie land

Me/E

08 Jun 2007 at 00:41 - 58

Bah!
I used to like necros ...... All these changes/nerfings start to get to me!
May be it's time for me to find another game, pity tho!

/Angelica

Hell Raiser

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

[PHNX]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:47 - 59

ArenaNet may have implemented the SR change based on PvP, but it made them realize how overpowered it was everywhere else. No other caster can simply ignore their energy and spam skills endlessly without energy management. I play Necro, he's now my main character (after deleting my monk) and I have no problem managing energy (I played monk for nearly two years, I always had my eye on my energy and brought energy management skills).

If you can spam 10-25e skills constantly (without e-management skills) and still have max energy after a battle (and, if you are an MM, a small army of minions), you know something is wrong. You need to accept the fact that it will not go back to the way it was, without energy gain from spirits/only gain from your minions. I used to play Necro the most, until I began getting bored; it was too easy. Before the cap on Minions, you could build a huge army and walk through almost every area.

People cried over the AoE nerf, hell I did too, that wasn't changed until just recently and it wasn't even changed back. Guess what, AoE is still very powerful in PvE. I think the community will get through this, just like the AoE nerf.

Oh, and Anet: I hope these are not your changes to change SR and make Mesmers better in PvE, they don't really help anything.

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 00:48 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelica

Bah!
I used to like necros ...... All these changes/nerfings start to get to me!
May be it's time for me to find another game, pity tho!

/Angelica

Same.... so many missions in hardmode here I need to spilt my party now that a minion master ill be counting down every 1 seconds till energy to support himself really annoys me

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 00:49 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by KebabVan

On another note, although practically all PvPers wanted an SR nerf, the most commonly requested one was that they dont recieve energy from spirits. The recieving it only every 5s came out of nowhere. Them changing it to three times every 15s is probably because in PvE usually big groups die all in quick succession so this will help the energy management in most cases.

I cant understand anyone who complains about SR every 5s anyway. I MM and SS all the time without any difficulty at all. Just dont spam all your spells expecting to have infinate energy.

On the mesmer update, looks very good. Sure it wont affect PvE but then mesmers have always been the worst profession in PvE - It is a PvP update. Will have to wait to see just how much it affects the effectiveness of paragons in pvp, but it will certainly counter them. M/P with signet of return going to be popular too.

Just thought I would highlight that part for all those complaining about the SR change. Before if you killed two enemies with SS or minions or AoE, you got energy from one kill and not the other. Wait 5 seconds then you get energy from the next kill. With this change you kill two enemies, get energy from both, and then you will only get energy from one more kill in the next 15 seconds.

To me that is a lot better, not that I understood why people would complain about getting up to 16 energy per kill anyways. You still get tons of energy, this is just for the kills that are chained together like from an MM with his minions mobbing two enemies or an SS that got two kills because the enemies are so dumb that they keep attacking.

Series

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 00:49 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

ArenaNet may have implemented the SR change based on PvP, but it made them realize how overpowered it was everywhere else.

Nothing is overpowered in PvE. How dare anybody say that my necro is overpowered while monks are running around soloing every monster in sight with no problems what so ever and when SF eles can dominate the damage, not to mention a party without a monk is a dead party.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 00:53 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Persephone

Don't know about SR changes, but I tested activation times of signets and they have been decreased.

My tests don't match that. I've been comparing Leader's Comfort and any 2-second signet (Illusions, Humility) by watching the activation bar, the bar seems to fill up at the same rate in both cases at 14 fast casting.

Snype

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

.:Pro Guildhopper:.

Mo/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 00:56 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

My tests don't match that. I've been comparing Leader's Comfort and any 2-second signet (Illusions, Humility) by watching the activation bar, the bar seems to fill up at the same rate in both cases at 14 fast casting.

I've tried it too, the new changes have not gone into effect.

DeBron

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

MD

08 Jun 2007 at 01:00 - 65

Spawning Power buff = EXCELLENT!

Hell Raiser

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

[PHNX]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:00 - 66

SR teams were exploiting a game mechanic, not a skill. SF/Prot spirit are skills. It is also well known that ArenaNet will change things in PvP even if they effect PvE, but not the other way around.

Fuzzy Taco

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Level Twenty One [HAX]

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:03 - 67

i'm here to whine about the SR changes. sure, i'm a complainer, but i just don't think this is the right nerf. This is just not it. basic multiplication tells me that there isn't much improvement, with the possibility of an energy spike and then nothing for 15 seconds. please Anet, tell us you have a backup!

lilnate22

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Runners of Fury

W/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 01:06 - 68

the mesmer intrupts are great..me playing pargons still think this was a NEEDEDupdate cus now chatns can be interupted too

but SR?? wow

GG anet..NOT

thank god got into WoW..atleast that pve aspect still has fun

Lord Natural

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada

Black Crescent [BC]

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:15 - 69

Interesting changes. The soul reaping from your own spirit change makes sense, but the 15 second change doesn't. I think this will hurt PvE'ers even more, where MM is concerned anyway.

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:15 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

It is also well known that ArenaNet will change things in PvP even if they effect PvE, but not the other way around.

Take a look at Spirit Bond. You can't say that was nerfed with PvP in mind.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:19 - 71

One thing I have noticed about this change is that the mesmer fast casting buff will likely be a great addition for PvP mesmers, but will mean next to nothing for PvE mesmers. There really aren't many signets that PvE mesmers use that will be any different with faster casting. PvP type skills such as Signet of Humility and Signet of Weariness, however, will be greatly helped by having an increased casting speed. I wouldn't say that this is necessarily a bad thing, but just seems a little strange to me since I never got the impression that A-net thought PvP mesmers needed a buff.

bam23

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 01:20 - 72

SR changes - Boo.

Mesmer changes - Getting there.

Spawning Power buff - Bravo!

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 01:27 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

Interesting changes. The soul reaping from your own spirit change makes sense, but the 15 second change doesn't. I think this will hurt PvE'ers even more, where MM is concerned anyway.

I'm not sure about that. Think about it, in PvE enemies tend to die in big bursts rather than in staggered intervals due to nuking and AoE damage. With every 5 second SR this only gives one benefit of SR, whereas 15 second SR gives a full clump of SR energy.

Sniper22

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 01:27 - 74

They keep trying to patch soul reaping up so much, its not even funny even more. Once they find out that this doesn't work, the next update for SR will probably have a paragraph discription trying to explain some BS soul reaping system.

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 01:30 - 75

This SR change is weird.

so basically....within 15 second cycles, you can regain a max total of 16 energy 3 times?

say at the 5 second mark a monster dies, i get 16 energy, a second later, another monster dies, i get another 16, 2 seconds later another monster dies, ill have to wait 7 seconds before the next death counts?

icymanipulator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

08 Jun 2007 at 01:32 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

This SR change is weird.

so basically....within 15 second cycles, you can regain a max total of 16 energy 3 times?

say at the 5 second mark a monster dies, i get 16 energy, a second later, another monster dies, i get another 16, 2 seconds later another monster dies, ill have to wait 7 seconds before the next death counts?

Provided you are willing to sacrifice your headgear to get that 16 spec, yes this is correct. Instead of having to satisfy a 5 second timer we would instead have to worry about the down time that will be produced should you happen to spike 3 mobs within the first few seconds of the 15 second period. It seems just like the 5 second timer this is meant to heavily discourage spiking.

Glitched

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

E/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 01:33 - 77

Alright, I've got the official changes:

Update - Thursday June 7

Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug in Fort Aspenwood that allowed the Warriors to be lured away from their destination.

Miscellaneous
Made additional preparations for the Alliance Battle weekend event.
Removed an incorrect +5 Energy Bonus that was added to General Morgahn's Primeval Leggings.

[B]Ritualist[B]
Spawning Power: Every rank in this attribute now increases the duration of your weapon spells by 2%.

Necromancer
Soul Reaping: You can now gain spike energy from this attribute, but then you're screwed for 1/4 minute.

Mesmer
You can now interrupt Chants with your anti-magic interrupts. Go dominate the PvE world!

Paragon
We have taken the liberty of further decorating your tombstone. Enjoy.

All hail the geniuses at Anet!

VitisVinifera

Banned

Join Date: Nov 2005

Northern California

HoTR

N/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 01:34 - 78

lyra, it makes no sense, it's totally convoluted and contrived, it's going to take a major article to fully explain it

it bewilders me how anet literally tries to chase people away from playing or enjoying what should be a simpler game

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

08 Jun 2007 at 01:34 - 79

Yeah this is a test of the emergency A-net solutions guide. Please wait to see if everything has gone better or worse and we have other changes behind it; if it does not work out.

Of course I hope this mean the Sunspear skills are soon to follow. Please let it be this week, “please, please, please.”

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

08 Jun 2007 at 01:35 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by KebabVan

Ummm how about there was a gimmick of 5/6 n/rts, 1 ranger spirit spammer and a n/mo or two that dominated GvG for a month or more. 7 necros running off an army of spirits and minions dying meant infinate energy for them. Wash machine was the most infamous guild who reached r5 i think until the SR nerf when they had to change builds and promptly dropped out of the GvG scene altogether.

If you dont know anything about PvP then don't comment on it.

so bring a couple mesmers with cry of frustration and aecho or another interrupt... can't gain energy from spirits if the spirits can't be cast. after the initial spirits die off, they'd be up sh*t creek without a paddle. But I guess that's beyond the average PvPers mentality...

there are always gimmick builds. nerf a skill or attribute, and a new gimmick build will rise up. this is how its been ever since IWAY first came about. nerfing every skill that becomes popular isn't really the way to go. there are a couple of things that do deserve nerfs, but this "spiritway" as people call it first of all was easily countered, and second of all should have been handled differently if it was to be handles at all. No, nerfing isn't the way to fix PvP. Fixing PvP mechanics is the way to fix PvP.
What's the flavor of the month now, anyway?

oh, one more note. in the cases of both soul reaping nerf and paragon nerfs, ritualist spirits were the issue. maybe they should have nerfed ritualist spirits instead of other classes that may or may not benefit from them?