Mesmer and SR changes June 7th update. - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Solus Spartan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

Australia

[Lawl]

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 04:58 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates The Mauler

Gotta say I wholeheartedly agree 100% with everybody here on SR.

Surely they must understand this is an unpopular nerf. They making it worse, not better. PvP'ers can stay in their closed in arenas. Cmon revert it for the majority of us.

Anet rarely gives a dam what the majority of Pve players think, there main focus is and has always been balancing Pvp, and nerf farming

But unfornately pleas to Anet are pointless, the nerf has hit and is to stay.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

08 Jun 2007 at 05:09 - 122

Quote:

Bug Fixes

Fixed a bug that prevented players from entering a Challenge Mission in Hard Mode.
Removed inaccurate changes to several skill and attribute descriptions.

Lol. It was more of a beta test then an inaccurate change. I think they got the reaction, to what they wanted to know from the community.

Feminist Terrorist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Oh Noes! The 'burbs!

08 Jun 2007 at 05:26 - 123

This update is complete and utter BS, if that's really how it's going to be rolled out. The SR change really looks like they didn't even try. Epic fail for Anet.

noocoo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 05:32 - 124

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

Update - Thursday June 7
Bug Fixes

* Fixed a bug that prevented players from entering a Challenge Mission in Hard Mode.
* Removed inaccurate changes to several skill and attribute descriptions.

So, does it mean that those attribute updates won't happen?

mazey vorstagg

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Nodnol

Meeting of Lost Minds

E/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 05:54 - 125

This is what happened. Obviously a test build got live by accident. Thsi caused the text changes all over.. Anet then realised and changed the build back to the correct update. The attribute changes arn't here, for now, but they'll be back methinks.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 05:56 - 126

This change would be ... WTF?

Yes, anet, this leak confirmed what you already knew: that timer is ... dumb. multiplying it 3 times is even dumber.

SR needs some fix, but this definitelly aint it.

klrk

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Space Rangers

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 06:06 - 127

its the worst nerf ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wonder if they're really doing their jobs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zerulus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 06:23 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feminist Terrorist

This update is complete and utter BS, if that's really how it's going to be rolled out. The SR change really looks like they didn't even try. Epic fail for Anet.

There's nothing wrong with soul reaping as it is, I don't see what all the crying is about.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 06:23 - 129

So, FC signets and interrpting chants are the big mesmer fixes that are supposed to make them work in PvE?

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

08 Jun 2007 at 06:34 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by KebabVan

Spirits were nothing to do with any paragon nerfs except the very specific change of shouts and chants no longer affecting spirits. Neither will they be responsible if paragons are nerfed again.

actually, I was speaking of the change of many chants to no longer affect ALLIES, but only PARTY MEMBERS. and it was said at the time it was because of spirit abuse. making them just not work on spirits was what a lot of people suggested, but like with SR, anet completely refuses to listen to reason and just applies wide-spectrum nerfs and convoluted mechanics

-Loki-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 06:47 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Spartan

Anet really hates pragon.

They shouldn't have made them so broken.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

08 Jun 2007 at 06:57 - 132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

So, FC signets and interrpting chants are the big mesmer fixes that are supposed to make them work in PvE?

You forgot the Sunspear new PvE skills, after seeing this I hope they can only be better. It's funny, I thought those would be coming in first before this.

ayame ftw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2006

Belgium

Forgot the Ghostlyyyyy

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 07:04 - 133

When i hear about a new update
I always stay positive: I tell my self every time “It cant get any worse then this” right?
WRONG

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

08 Jun 2007 at 07:36 - 134

I'm guessing there's someone at A-net going "Boy is my face red!" LOL

But it did make for some interesting conversation in Remains of Sahlajah tonight.

Marth Reynolds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Netherlands

The Lore Enforcers

Me/A

08 Jun 2007 at 07:40 - 135

Sounds nice those mesmer buffs it won't make them more popular i think, but it will make way for mes signet builds

And interuption of chants Meh.. most chants aren't that high priority to interupt.

But i can't find any of the changes in game just missed em it seems

Kale Ironfist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

Australia

Venatio Illuminata [VEIL]

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 07:53 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Well you might want to get your vision checked >_<

look and see how much dmg was taken away, and durations

like flame trap used to do like 31 dmg now it does like 13 -.-
and spike trap did like 70 something
now it does 30

but remember this thread is about soul reaping >_>

The duration of conditions on traps were never affected. Also, the damage numbers were corrected. So how were traps nerfed again?

* Damage numbers used to show the actual damage for 0 armor targets. Now they are correctly showing the damage on 60 armor targets.

Buzzer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Australia

08 Jun 2007 at 08:08 - 137

Hopefully Anet can tweak some of these changes before they go live.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 08:19 - 138

Interesting.

My comments

1. FC for signets is nice. But nothing more.
It does not make Mesmers any better in PvE. A cosmetic change that does not matter in the big picture.

2. Soul Reaping. From 1x in 5 seconds to 3x in 15 seconds.

What do we want?
A steady stream of energy, or able to get more energy when many things die roughly around the same time. SS style farming comes to mind.

I see people moaning about it, BUT... it is a bit better than 1x in 5 seconds. It is more flexible!

If you can live with the current state of SR, I can, it becomes even better ... but ... it is clumsy and 3x in 15s looks even clumsier. Sorry, this is still a bandaid but no proper solution.

3. Spawning Power (2% to duration of weapon spells per point in SP)

Okay, let's assume 12 or 13 SP. That makes for 25% longer duration of weapon spells.

Does not matter! Vampiric Weapon or Splinter Weapon, very nice spells to wreck havoc with Barrage Rangers, do not benefit from it too much. The duration does not matter, they get used up earlier anyways.

Resilient Weapon: Around 17 seconds at 12, it is then 21.
Warmonger's Weapon: 13 seconds to 16.
Weapon of Warding: Some 10 to 12/13

I would still rather invest in another attribute if you plan to use a lot of weapon spells. The benefit is too small.

It does not help. Spawning Power is too much tied to the failed concept of spirits and to the Communing line. Restoration and Channeling are very nice by now, the spirit complex is still in a sad state. Either IMBA or boring and useless.

Does-it-Matter

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 08:22 - 139

Wow, just wow people. You go doom and gloom the minute something changes not to your liking. Mere hours since its been out, and you've only seen immediate changes, not long term and bam!, it's horrible.

Yes, your builds (and mine) that revolved around near-limitless energy may need to be changed. So? I guess it's crazy to think that a caster should be limited by energy.

Let's say most Necros have around a 10 in Soul Reaping (balancing out the SS Curse/Soul and MM Death/Soul with others that might use more attributes.)

That's 10 energy, three times, in a period of 15 seconds. It's very possible to have nearly 60 energy on a Necromancer (+8 Radiant, +12 Off-hand, +5 Wand, and a 2-3 Runes of Attunement (6) That's actually 61 Energy as listed.)

So we enter battle with 61 Energy, somehow manage to blow through all of that in a period of fifteen seconds DESPITE gaining anywhere from 15-39 additional energy (and 20 extra from 4 pips of energy over 15 seconds)

Start with 61, gain up to ~59 every 15 seconds. That's PLENTY of energy.

Besides, if three things just died, chances are your group is doing fine.

imkey

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Green and Pink

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 08:23 - 140

Do you think what you guys think about how the game should be designed will matter at all?

That's the game designer's job. Most of them don't even read the forums. Not the ones that matter anyway.

Just enjoy the game with whatever profession/skills you feel are most fun/powerful at the moment and move along. Theres no need to grow attachments to any one profession or character. You may just be really disappointed after your playstyle gets nerfed to hell. Have lots of backup chars

.

ANet has shown they will change your gameplay experience for better or for worst. You have no control over it. The disclaimer is on the box!

6am3 Fana71c

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 08:30 - 141

As for mesmers, it is nice, but we need FC to REDUCE TEH RECHARGE of spells! How should we be able to interupt and cast as crazy if our spells take a century to be ready to be used again? And i realy dont get you ppl for complaining for that hard mode challenge mission nerf. I mean, seriously, do you ever do anything but farming? And i can understand farming for money, but farming for some stupid pve title that everyone has? get a life!

Mr. G

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

S. Wales

Mo/Me

08 Jun 2007 at 08:39 - 142

Quote:

I mean, seriously, do you ever do anything but farming? And i can understand farming for money, but farming for some stupid pve title that everyone has? get a life!

No we like vanquishing arborstone, we like to play HM from all areas,we may or may not like farming for a title that IMPROVES your skills - so your ZOMG farmingz reaction is way off

---

but on topic...SR i can live with, ive never liked the uber energy of necros...but still only your own AND 15 seconds? one of the toher please

And if this is a mesmer buff for PVE...god help us, all i see is PvP buffs

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

08 Jun 2007 at 08:42 - 143

Are they ever going to document these updates on their main site? Sheesh!

Milennin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Europe

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 08:48 - 144

So...what's the Mesmer buff? If it's only being able to interrupt Shouts and Chants it's pretty crappy, useless and don't understand why they wasted their time on it...
About Soul Reaping, I'm not sure, but I think the description at my Master of Whisper's Soul Reaping attribute is still the same as before the update...

Zedd Kun

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Bretheren Of Chaos [Dark]

Rt/

08 Jun 2007 at 09:00 - 145

Yeah, the mesmer "buff" really sucks, who needs chant interrupts in PvE? .. Wow.. Give us at least something decent, Anet!

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

08 Jun 2007 at 09:01 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

So...what's the Mesmer buff? If it's only being able to interrupt Shouts and Chants it's pretty crappy, useless and don't understand why they wasted their time on it...
About Soul Reaping, I'm not sure, but I think the description at my Master of Whisper's Soul Reaping attribute is still the same as before the update...

It was a glitch, some skills and attribute lines got their description changed but not their effect, and now they're back to normal.

The Mesmer buff (so far) is that FC now works on Signets really. Power skills affecting Paragon Chants (not Shouts, as those are instant and can't be interrupted at all) is more a nerf to Paraway rather than buffing Mesmers.
Then there were 2-3 changes to other Mesmer skills that really don't matter. At all.

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

08 Jun 2007 at 09:17 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

As for mesmers, it is nice, but we need FC to REDUCE THE RECHARGE of spells! How should we be able to interupt and cast as crazy if our spells take a century to be ready to be used again?

thats not a bad idea, some of the energy regain skills in inspiration might be more effective that way thus giving mesmers a more effective method of energy maintence (which they lack in there primary) It would have to be a low amount though like 2% reduced recharge per point in fast casting

visitor

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Kronos HQ

W/

08 Jun 2007 at 09:57 - 148

First of all mesmers weren´t underpowered before the update so now they´re only stronger, right?

And as a necro, if you´re having energy management problems, well you´re doing something wrong. Take offering of blood or something like that.

Ferret

Elite Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005

England

Ferrets Unity of Rogues (FUR)

R/Mo

08 Jun 2007 at 10:00 - 149

Just in case noone else has checked and noticed...this is from official Wiki:

[edit] Update 1 - Thursday, June 07, 2007
[edit] Bug Fixes
Fixed a bug in Fort Aspenwood that allowed the Warriors to be lured away from their destination.
[edit] Miscellaneous
Made additional preparations for the Alliance Battle weekend event.
Removed an incorrect +5 Energy Bonus that was added to General Morgahn's Primeval Leggings.
[edit] Guild Wars Wiki Notes
This update introduced a number of bugs, which were fixed in the second update:
Players were unable to select Hard Mode in Challenge Mission outposts.
The description of Soul Reaping in the Skills and Attributes Panel erroneously read: "For each point of Soul Reaping, you gain 1 Energy whenever a creature near you dies. You may only gain Energy in this way 3 times every 15 seconds. You only gain Energy from Spirits you control."
The description of Fast Casting erroneously read: "Fast Casting decreases the casting time of your Spells. Additionally, each rank in this attribute decreases your Signet activation times by 3%."
The description of Spawning Power erroneously read: "For each rank of Spawing Power, creatures you create (or animate) have 4% more Health, and weapon Spells you cast last 2% longer[sic]. Some Ritualist skills, especially those related to Spirit creatures, become more effective with higher Spawning Power."
Many mesmer skills that only work if your foe was casting a spell, such as Power Drain, Power Spike, Power Block or Power Flux, had their descriptions altered to state that they also worked on chants.

Note the word 'erroneously' used in there...there have been NO changes yet, though this may be a possible sneak preview of what is to come.

Shadow of Light

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Australia

Mo/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:05 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

...just seems a little strange to me since I never got the impression that A-net thought PvP mesmers needed a buff.

I second that... I was taken to understand that what prompted all the discussion for mesmer 'upgrading' was because of all the people who say it's hard for PvE Mesmers to get welcomed into a PUG. A PUG actually *looking* for a Mesmer is a rare thing.

I maintained that I was happy with my mesmer, though, so I'll just watch how this progresses with interest.

Razorwood

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Newcastle (Ish)

Xcoh

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:08 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by visitor

And as a necro, if you´re having energy management problems, well you´re doing something wrong. Take offering of blood or something like that.

That's not really an option if you play curses.

But personally I LOVE the Soul Reaping change, before it I used to avoid playing MM because it was far to easy and I found it no fun at all.

Now since the change I have to actually keep an eye on what I do and it's great , I still rely purely on Soul Reaping for energy though and I never seem to have many problems getting my army up and casting OoU as soon as it recharges.

When I play curses energy can get a little bit tight but I replaced Arcane Echo with guilt, and got a 20/20 weapon set and once again I rarely seem to have any problems spamming my curses. Most times when my energy is gone i'm waiting for things to recharge anyway.

Also we don't even know if these changes are final yet, it looks like Anet made a mistake in changing the descriptions and that's why they repatched it and reverted it back.

The fact they never left the text as it was AND changed the actual skills implies that they aren't finished tweaking yet. So let's just wait and see what happens?

Shuuda

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guildless

Me/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:08 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

This is the worst thing Anet has ever done.

You people say that so much, those words have lost all meaning.

Loot scaling was the worst thing Anet has ever done.
Hard Mode was the worst thing Anet has ever done.
AoE Scatter was the worst thing Anet has ever done.
<Any random update> Was the worst thing Anet has ever done.

Get the picture?

Fast casting to signet, that's the only Buff I was wishing for, SR was always retarded anyway, so why does that matter?

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:09 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSGashapon

Who, among the player base, asked for SR to be changed in the first place?

Players that have a clue.

Whether you like it or not, Anet have realized that soul reaping was overpowered in both PvP and PvE and have changed it accordingly. You can bang your heads your keyboard but that won't change the fact that SR DID need some sort of cap.
I personally like this change and think it is more "elegant" that the previous one, though it still seems kinda clumsy. I think both changes (3 every 15 and "only trigger SR of your own shit") fix SR in both PvP and PvE.

As for increase signet cast speed, I think this promotes hex builds (1 sec humility is pretty strong), though most hexes should be getting adjusted with the next balance patch. Other than that I do like it. Might actually start seeing weariness on those 2 mes/1 necro hex teams in GvG.

As for mesmer interupts, (for those of you that don't get it) chants are technically shouts that HAVE cast times, such as defensive anthem, song of restoration, and song of purification. This makes having a mesmer a bit more valid in HA as it can now shut down those annoying dual defensive anthems paragon teams.

Lord Mendes

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Derka-Derka Land

Steel Phoenix (StP)

E/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:27 - 154

skipped straight to the last page, didn't read your post.

Though this will probably be the next change.

Razorwood

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Newcastle (Ish)

Xcoh

N/

08 Jun 2007 at 10:31 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

skipped straight to the last page, didn't read your post.

Though this will probably be the next change.

Maybe it will, maybe they will tweak it some more. If it was ready to be rolled out it would of been already.

There's no point in getting all worked up over something that might not even happen.

Personally i'm going to wait and see what happens and if it's true i'll see how it works THEN i'll pass judgement.

Even if it is true until you've tested it you can't accurately say how it works / will work.

NJudson

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

08 Jun 2007 at 10:56 - 156

Maybe I've missed this somehow since I haven't played my necro in a longtime, but with this timer now then is it possible for a MM with SR at 12 to have 3 minions get nuked and die within 1st five seconds and only receive 1/2 SR from them (6+6+6=18) before any enemy die so then your screwed and only got 1/2 SR until the 15 second timer is up.

Just curious.

Nevermind. I misread the update and it says spirits no longer give only 1/2 energy. oops

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

08 Jun 2007 at 12:15 - 157

I don't understand how people can say that the 3/15 Soul Reaping is worse than 1/5. Sure, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of an upgrade.

Especially in PvE--your group encounters enemies, you cast shit on them, they die, you get three charges of Energy back (which is what, 30? i don't know how much necros usually run). You cast some more, things die, you might miss a few charges but fifteen seconds is not all that long--especially if it starts counting from the first triggering.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

08 Jun 2007 at 12:26 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

I personally like this change and think it is more "elegant" that the previous one, though it still seems kinda clumsy. I think both changes (3 every 15 and "only trigger SR of your own shit") fix SR in both PvP and PvE.

two things...
1) lol, if by "elegant" you mean "overly complicated", then sure! sigh... simple fix almost everyone can agree to: no limit on numbers, but no energy from spirits or minions.
2) yeah it "fixed" SR... in the way that you take your dog to a clinic to get it "fixed".... really removes its soul...

devilru

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2005

公平さの光 [微笑]

08 Jun 2007 at 12:29 - 159

A-net will probably roll out the Fast Cast/Soul Reaping improvements in the next skill balance update. Interruption on chants probably won't be the only mesmer buff, other skills should change as well.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

08 Jun 2007 at 12:34 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I don't understand how people can say that the 3/15 Soul Reaping is worse than 1/5. Sure, it's not perfect, but it's a hell of an upgrade.

Especially in PvE--your group encounters enemies, you cast shit on them, they die, you get three charges of Energy back (which is what, 30? i don't know how much necros usually run). You cast some more, things die, you might miss a few charges but fifteen seconds is not all that long--especially if it starts counting from the first triggering.

here's another scenario. you're fighting several monsters. 3 of em area really weak, the rest are strong (similar scenarios seen a lot in pve). the 3 weak ones go down pretty quickly, without expending much energy. you get 30 energy from them, but you only used 10 energy to kill them, so 2/3 of the soul reaping effect go to waste. 10 seconds and 45 energy later, one of the stronger mobs goes down, and you gain 0 energy from it. the problem with the fix is how the mechanics work, and how some monsters go down a lot quicker than others. the problem is it delivers energy in quick bursts when you don't need it, and then you can be waiting on a timer and get nothing when you do need it. just dumb.

now, most of us aren't saying that soulreaping should be super overpowered, just that the fix is so incredibly stupid and its getting dumber. no time limit, no energy from allies' and enemies' spirits and minions. think of any problems with that??