Mystic Regen, isnt it about time? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Pyro maniac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

04 Dec 2007 at 15:08 - 202

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

*cough distracting shot cough*

yes, d-shotting a 0,25 sec cast spell is very easy

I have no problem with it, but it may be an idea to up recharge
enchant removal is hard, mystic regen will be back up when you're still in your aftercast ..

upping to 10, or 15 secs makes it viable to shatter the enchant.

Fried Tech

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Yeti]

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 15:11 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

assuming they don't have a cover enchantment, which if they're worth killing at all, they probably do.

if they have a cover enchant then chances are they cant do anything accept for tank. leave them for last and then your team can take them np. why keep attacking a foe that can do no damage and take almost no damage? i have better things to do with my time

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

04 Dec 2007 at 15:30 - 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

I'd be really pissed if they ruined my 55 build because people whine about Earth Tanks in PvP. And that's all I have to say.

*cough distracting shot cough*

cough 1/4 cast time cough

Str0b0

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Carolina

N/Me

04 Dec 2007 at 18:03 - 205

Who even cares if they put it back on? Where do you people get this idea that Mystic Regen will actually heal someone to the point of invincibility? You are barking up the wrong tree. You want to nerf something nerf the damage reduction skills. It's the same principle as a 55 monk. They reduce damage to the point that their regen can keep up with it. If you have a monk relying on regen alone for healing in a situation like that they die, plain and simple. The same thing applies to Mystic regen. IF you really need a counter then BHA pretty much owns it. Even if you miss interrupting the original cast you'll damn sure get the next one when it wears off. It changes it to a 1/2 cast time, which is interruptable since it becomes easily interrupted so you just get someone up in their face attacking and bam they are done end of story.

tankity tank

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 18:08 - 206

Putting mystic regen into mysticism is a bad idea. Currently if you play dervish you need to triple spec (myst, scythe & earth) to use mystic regen.

Moving mystic regen over to mysticism would stop cross classes from using the skill entirely and would allow dervishes to dual spec (scythe & myst only) thus giving them an unintended boost to all of the other skills on their bar. Basically that idea is lose-lose.

Fix mystic regen some other way, like giving it an actual recharge or cast time.

~ Dan ~

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

D/

04 Dec 2007 at 18:10 - 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

if they have a cover enchant then chances are they cant do anything accept for tank. leave them for last and then your team can take them np. why keep attacking a foe that can do no damage and take almost no damage? i have better things to do with my time

Derv wise mystic regen is the cover enchant - because of the low recharge and the fact other enchantments are more important (e.g. Heart of Fury). Saying that 2 enchants makes a "tank" is kinda.. strange.

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

04 Dec 2007 at 18:19 - 208

come on like... its dervish mending and as for tanks... [skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill][skill]Corrupt Enchantment[/skill] gogogogo, my favourite way to use this in ab is to wait for the e/d or d/mo tank to start going OMG you noobs you cant kill me... then cast rend enchantments... they go in a blink... = ragequit

Also If you want comedy use currupt enchantment on heal breeze warriors .. "WOOT! -8 dmg woot!" , i also got called a haxxor last night in ab for doing that XD

Fried Tech

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Yeti]

E/

04 Dec 2007 at 18:21 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Derv wise mystic regen is the cover enchant - because of the low recharge and the fact other enchantments are more important (e.g. Heart of Fury). Saying that 2 enchants makes a "tank" is kinda.. strange.

I was quoting someone complaining about e/d. My point was more towards ignoring the e/d all together until they are the last one, because lets face it, they aren't going to hurt you. Cover or no cover.

I don't think that they need to nerf mystic regen at all. If it pisses you off that bad then make a counter build. Instead of complaining all the time, do something about it, dont expect someone else to.

Nuclfus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

Screw guilds.

Me/

04 Dec 2007 at 19:21 - 210

Being a mesmer, I find Mystic Regen is very easy to counter (Backfire, Rend Enchants via necro secondary, then degen and laugh) and I do it all the time, so I wouldn't say it needs a nerf. But I for one am tired of seeing the floods of E/Ds and N/Ds in AB and knowing exactly how to kill them in 3 seconds without a second thought. It's not overpowered, it's boring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankity tank

Putting mystic regen into mysticism is a bad idea. Currently if you play dervish you need to triple spec (myst, scythe & earth) to use mystic regen.

Moving mystic regen over to mysticism would stop cross classes from using the skill entirely and would allow dervishes to dual spec (scythe & myst only) thus giving them an unintended boost to all of the other skills on their bar. Basically that idea is lose-lose.

Fix mystic regen some other way, like giving it an actual recharge or cast time.

If I had to choose, I'd still rather the dervish get boosted than the hordes of mindless cookie cutters while playing AB. But I do think someone's idea of making it work with only dervish enchantments is far better.

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

04 Dec 2007 at 19:30 - 211

I'd prefer a simple +10 regen benefit cap to this skill, and increase the recharge from 5 to 15 (duration is 20). The skill doesn't benefit the team, is frustrating to play against if you don't have a copy of Rend / Gaze handy, and draws out the match unnecessarily. It's griefway, and injecting the capability to play it in your bar usually retards your damage output, which is a bad mindset for newer PvP players.

To all the 55 monks:
a) you survived just fine before Nightfall
b) +10 is still tons of regen
c) Healing Breeze just got buffed

Tamuril elansar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

N/

04 Dec 2007 at 20:00 - 212

erhm, mystic regen not overpowered, requires 8 in earth and at least 25 energy to get full effect...

TheHaxor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

two

W/N

04 Dec 2007 at 21:03 - 213

i herd dat rend touch wuz gud, c/d?

AuraofMana

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Georgia, US

04 Dec 2007 at 21:55 - 214

Dude Flare Is So Imba It Has Fast Recharge And Dmg And Like Low Energy,
Move It To Energy Storage Plz, Secondary Professions Are Imba In This Game!!!11
ZOMG THEY KILLED MY ALL CAP FURY I R MADZ NOWZZZ ZOMGGGGZ!!111

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

04 Dec 2007 at 21:59 - 215

semi-worthless skill outside of farming.

i hate seeing e/d tanks with it, hell, i hate seeing anyone not farming with it tbh, and especially dervs.

leave it alone. let noobs run it and look like fools, they'll survive till the end.. the end being them alone, team dead, and them standing frantically trying to save energy and not die from a swarm of hate.

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

04 Dec 2007 at 22:03 - 216

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

Dude Flare Is So Imba It Has Fast Recharge And Dmg And Like Low Energy,
Move It To Energy Storage Plz, Secondary Professions Are Imba In This Game!!!11
ZOMG THEY KILLED MY ALL CAP FURY I R MADZ NOWZZZ ZOMGGGGZ!!111

ZoMg lik, i nO, itz lik, waaaaay ovurpowurd n' stuff, did u C how tUff a Mes iz w/ SS?! moov 2 Soul Reeping plx, way 2 strong 4 curzes!!!!!!112!!21!

lol well put though Aura.

Renegade26

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

04 Dec 2007 at 22:19 - 217

Just because Mystic Regeneration is one skill of the Earth Tank does not mean it deserves nerfing.

The earth tank you speak of is simply a "waste enemies time" build. Griefing that I think can be reported.

The other skills are more of a problem. Stoneflesh Aura is far too strong if you cant counter it, and of course sucks if you can.

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

04 Dec 2007 at 22:24 - 218

meh earth tanks are 100% completely based on enchantments.. it does hurt to bring [skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill] or [skill]Gaze Of Contempt[/skill] both would work at 0 attributes

-Pluto-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

US

Diversionary Tactics [DT]

Mo/

04 Dec 2007 at 22:29 - 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

I'd prefer a simple +10 regen benefit cap to this skill, and increase the recharge from 5 to 15 (duration is 20). The skill doesn't benefit the team, is frustrating to play against if you don't have a copy of Rend / Gaze handy, and draws out the match unnecessarily. It's griefway, and injecting the capability to play it in your bar usually retards your damage output, which is a bad mindset for newer PvP players.

To all the 55 monks:
a) you survived just fine before Nightfall
b) +10 is still tons of regen
c) Healing Breeze just got buffed

You... do realize that regen is naturally capped at 10 anyway... right? Unless you want degen to be able to counter it or something, and even then, you'd have to have 4 enchantments for 12 regen anyway (3 if you have 13 myst on a derv). Only the scrubbiest of the tanks I've seen have more than 4 anyway.

The duration change is a pretty good balance though. Makes it harder to use as easily as a cover enchantment. The recharge is the only change I feel Anet would need to consider, if anything at all.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

04 Dec 2007 at 22:36 - 220

Im sorry Why the hell are you using Mystic Regeneration as a cover enchantment its 10 energy.

The only people who do that are non dervishes or melee classes.

Dervs cover with Vital Boon, many other classes also cover Mystic Regeneration.

Just because the stupid caster is using it so is no reason for you to grief.

You want it nerfed because you can't kill a build that can't kill?
1 Word Interrupt, Mystic Regen isn't going to destroy lives.
If you cant kill someone simply because they are Regenerating you have a problem with your damage not the skill.
If its because they are using Skills that weaken damage.
I dunno...maybe thats the problem?

Ensign

Just Plain Fluffy

Join Date: Dec 2004

Berkeley, CA

Idiot Savants

04 Dec 2007 at 23:28 - 221

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Changing the recharge time would be okay, but I would not change the cast time. In PvE Dervish's are supposed to be dealing damage, you sort of negate that by giving long cast times on support skills.

(I'm not saying you said to change the cast, but I wanted to point that out.)

I agree with that, there's no need to make it interrupt bait when it depends on other enchantments to do anything in the first place, and those typically are interrupt bait. I'm more interested in enchantment removal being meaningful against Mystic Regeneration; it recharges faster than any removal you would use and it's not like you get a lot of mileage out of a 2-3 second downtime. Really you need to Rend to hit the other enchantments if you want to turn off Mystic Regeneration with removal...I'd much rather it had a 15-20r so spot removal did something.

It's really not a problem skill though...oh dear gods, casters have a viable self heal, totally imba? The characters that cause the most trouble with the skill rely on much more important, and more vulnerable, enchantments anyway.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

04 Dec 2007 at 23:37 - 222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

It's really not a problem skill though...oh dear gods, casters have a viable self heal, totally imba? The characters that cause the most trouble with the skill rely on much more important, and more vulnerable, enchantments anyway.

Yeah I do agree that eles finally have a self heal that doesn't suck, let them have it.

azzer20

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Ballerup, Denmark

Me/

04 Dec 2007 at 23:58 - 223

BEguiling Haze and the E/D will be dead so fast it's crazy

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

05 Dec 2007 at 00:15 - 224

15-20 recharge is to strong ensign

Guys realize this is a Dervish Skill.
The skill is already costing 10 energy out of the dervishes 25 energy

And the dervish will not gain any energy from mysticism until that enchantment ends. Mystic Regen is not a cover enchant for a dervish, Its something that is covered. At most 10 recharge would suffice but really it does not need a change.

Mystic Regen is freaking 20 hp per second, generally Regen has never been considered overpowered.
Regen is not as efficient as straight out healing (unless your farming)

Honestly
If 20 hp per second is besting you, Its not the skill that your having a problem with, your build sucks.

If your arguement is Mystic regen makes E/D tanks hard to kill
Thats not true

Stone Flesh aura and Kinetic armor make them hard to kill

Good day.

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

05 Dec 2007 at 00:50 - 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

R.I.P mystic regen...another great skill that can be used by ALL, is soon to be flushed down the crapper.

Hello Mr. D/E

Yep, Sad but true, thats where good skills end up (from useful to useless)

Lets enjoy it while it lasts.

- Ganni

Death By Ketchup

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

Canada

Eternal Transcendence [DRMR]

A/

05 Dec 2007 at 02:22 - 226

I know what, lets just nerf every skill that annoys people. =/

Master Knightfall

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2007

05 Dec 2007 at 08:40 - 227

I agree nerf the E/D ele and Shadowform to smithereens. It's just annoying when every skill or spell you try to use does nothing but cost you your energy. Shadowform with echo is practically invincible and there's only a handful of counters to remove it and if they put up cover chants it is impossible to remove. Chilblains used to be a great non-spell chant remover since it would take down TWO chants at once, but, they nerfed that to oblivion and left shadowform untouched. Shadowform should be a 60 second recharge AND have 120 second delay like the dervisher elite form skills.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

05 Dec 2007 at 08:57 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

I agree nerf the E/D ele and Shadowform to smithereens. It's just annoying when every skill or spell you try to use does nothing but cost you your energy.

You're doing it wrong, obsi tanks can' t hurt anyone so why waste energy on them. Don' t forget that dervishes might need the skill, and fire and air eles use it as well. If you can' t beat an obsi tank, either your build is bad or your tactics are lousy. I would understand people if there are obsi tanks running around killing everyone, but this isn' t the case.

-Pluto-

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

US

Diversionary Tactics [DT]

Mo/

05 Dec 2007 at 09:43 - 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death By Ketchup

I know what, lets just nerf every skill that annoys people. =/

To a certain extent, that's kind of the point.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

05 Dec 2007 at 10:02 - 230

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Pluto-

To a certain extent, that's kind of the point.

Yeah but imo the trade off isn't worth it. It's bad to screw over the people putting the skill to some sensible use because of some naabs playing builds that don't kill anyone.

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

05 Dec 2007 at 12:19 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Honestly
If 20 hp per second is besting you, Its not the skill that your having a problem with, your build sucks.

QFT.

Before people decide to bring their healing breeze mending assassins to RA they should go to the master of damage and make sure they can out dps Mystic Regen.

Fried Tech

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Yeti]

E/

05 Dec 2007 at 13:10 - 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

You're doing it wrong, obsi tanks can' t hurt anyone so why waste energy on them. Don' t forget that dervishes might need the skill, and fire and air eles use it as well.[B] If you can' t beat an obsi tank, either your build is bad or your tactics are lousy. I would understand people if there are obsi tanks running around killing everyone, but this isn' t the case.

I couldnt agree more. Nerfing this skill will hurt a lot of people who dont use it in pvp. You might as well nerf obi flesh, stoneflesh, prot spirit, shadowform, healing breeze, etc. Think of the pve!

Joe Hostile

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

Redmond, WA

Rebel Rising [rawr]

05 Dec 2007 at 15:23 - 233

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

But since it's Anet..theres a pretty good chance they'll do something far more retarded.

I would imagine they would want their game to be far less retarded than you claim as they have their whole livelihood riding on it.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

05 Dec 2007 at 16:20 - 234

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

The skill is already costing 10 energy out of the dervishes 25 energy
(...)
Mystic Regen is freaking 20 hp per second, generally Regen has never been considered overpowered.
(...)
If your arguement is Mystic regen makes E/D tanks hard to kill
Thats not true

Stone Flesh aura and Kinetic armor make them hard to kill

Yup, indeed. If we follow this logic the new Healing Breeze is gamebreaking. It is really odd that this skill gets the blame for people having trouble with E/D tanks or N/D Aura of the Lich Necros, mostly in AB's.

Especially as MR is not the core and strength of these builds as you pointed out. A skill does not need to be nerfed if others cause the effect, and no skill needs to be nerfed just because of a 4 player team none bothers to bring a single enchantment removal.

Angelic Upstart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

South Coast UK

[SBS] [RETIRED]

W/E

05 Dec 2007 at 17:44 - 235

Isnt it about time?

No it isnt leave the bloody skill well alone!

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

05 Dec 2007 at 17:48 - 236

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I agree with that, there's no need to make it interrupt bait when it depends on other enchantments to do anything in the first place, and those typically are interrupt bait. I'm more interested in enchantment removal being meaningful against Mystic Regeneration; it recharges faster than any removal you would use and it's not like you get a lot of mileage out of a 2-3 second downtime. Really you need to Rend to hit the other enchantments if you want to turn off Mystic Regeneration with removal...I'd much rather it had a 15-20r so spot removal did something.

It's really not a problem skill though...oh dear gods, casters have a viable self heal, totally imba? The characters that cause the most trouble with the skill rely on much more important, and more vulnerable, enchantments anyway.

And of course Ensign, keep in mind all professions originally had access to Healing Signet. So, this skill just gives some of them back a viable self heal that actually is, useful in some cases. Mystic Regen still requires you to invest 8 points in Earth Prayers, however. That is significant. Perhaps the breakpoint could be 10? 9+1 is easy for a dervish, but no an X/D.

Sword

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mo/

05 Dec 2007 at 18:17 - 237

i agree this skill is overpowered

1-2 second cast at least , other nerfs accetable

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Dec 2007 at 18:37 - 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fried Tech

I couldnt agree more. Nerfing this skill will hurt a lot of people who dont use it in pvp. You might as well nerf obi flesh, stoneflesh, prot spirit, shadowform, healing breeze, etc. Think of the pve!

tell me...dont the dervs have enough energy?
either way - 20 hp per second is easy to outdamage.
and with a 4 man team - wouldnt enchant removal fit on one?

stretchs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

Untimely Demise [Err了] - SOHK

05 Dec 2007 at 18:55 - 239

The real problem for most builds isnt the Mystic Regen it truly is Stoneflesh. Without it, Mystic really doesnt help that much. Same goes with the 55's, it is Prot Spirit that does the work. As for ED Tanks, there are still ways to make them fairly damaging, especially going against melee. Against Casters, typically your ED is at a major disadvantage.

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

05 Dec 2007 at 20:23 - 240

Quote:

Originally Posted by stretchs

The real problem for most builds isnt the Mystic Regen it truly is Stoneflesh. Without it, Mystic really doesnt help that much. Same goes with the 55's, it is Prot Spirit that does the work. As for ED Tanks, there are still ways to make them fairly damaging, especially going against melee. Against Casters, typically your ED is at a major disadvantage.

Thank you. No amount of regen is going to save you from real damage. Stoneflesh ignores even the armor nerf because it's fixed damage reduction. In RA/AB, as has been said, just ignore the earth tank and kill the rest of the team. Stone Daggers really, REALLY isn't much of a threat. And one thing is true, with any tanking build, from Dolyak/Healing Hands to Stoneflesh/Mystic-- tanking builds have VERY inferior damage output. When more than half your skills (in some cases all of them) are expressly for keeping yourself alive, then you aren't building for team play anyway. You're not building to win, you're building to not lose.

Vamis Threen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

E/Mo

05 Dec 2007 at 20:41 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

You're doing it wrong, obsi tanks can' t hurt anyone so why waste energy on them. Don' t forget that dervishes might need the skill, and fire and air eles use it as well. If you can' t beat an obsi tank, either your build is bad or your tactics are lousy. I would understand people if there are obsi tanks running around killing everyone, but this isn' t the case.

Too true. They can hold a shrine in AB, but they can't do much else. As they are basically harmless, just ignore them. Leave the skill alone too, I reckon it's balanced. Or if it has to be nerfed, make the +3 come on at higher earth prayers.