Loot scaling... Helping casual players...?

I'm either doing something wrong or right, but since loot-scaling I'm seeing my gold in store slowly increasing, and that's with buying lockpicks and never passing a chest up. All I'm doing is vanquishing with a full party and more times than not I'm finding my inventory full of assorted stuff plus the gold picked up. Being able to sell tomes helps with that some, but I haven't had any 'jackpot' drops yet.

I've said it before and I say it again:
To my opinion it would be 'normal' if individual players in an 8 man team by just exploring the countryside would earn 2-3 k an hour. And I find it really annoying that this game drops so little, unless you play 1 man solo games or bot.

I feel kinds sorry for the newer players at times , having not known the GW before Nightfall, but then i see threads started by these players moaning that they havent got this or that, and they seem to want to have everything accessible to them for next to nothing.
Then they condemn farmers for having everything they desire, wtf its not an exclusive closed shop, farming get off your arses and work for your money,although i think loot scaling could have been worked a little better, HM farming spots are plentiful and reap good rewards,besides what are players going to do when they have beaten three campaigns a multitude of times? Because ill tell you now the replay value wears pretty thin after a while, i farm now just for the challenge of making build for a new spot, sometime it works sometime it dont but that is how i spend my time nowadays on GW, that and helping people when i can. Am i rich? no far from it but i dont need anything either armour or skill wise for my characters, and i only achieved that by being al ittle savvy about what i spent my money on,one example, lockpicks - 1500 gold and only rarely do you get a drop worth the expense, elite tomes are one and maybe the exceptional rare 15^50 weapon, which now sells for bugger all, if it sells at all cos no one has any money,or wants to part with it to someone asking silly prices.Shame the newer players didnt experience the GuildWars that was.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]Great Lovitar now your telling people to become farmers, man when did your hate of farmers change. Now you want everyone to become a farmer. But id like to know where your getting 20k for farming an hour. Oh wait your math is screwed up. so lets see here if I can fix that for you. 1 hr vermin nets you 3k now to get your 20k that is a little over 3.5 hours now to get your 40k thats 7 hours and for your 150k that would be just under 28 hours of farming 3k an hour. Yeap thats just perfect for casual player to do right. Keep on telling evryone to become farmers that way its no so lonely for me.

Can we say YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT LOOT SCALING. Loot scaling had nothing to do with those dropping, as a matter of fact prices starting climbing crazily when Loot Scaling started, Hell ectos went up 4k in less than 5 hours.
It was the exemptions and HM that made them go down. I was set to top 100 million on my stuff if they didnt make the exemptions and the increased drop rates in HM.

having a look at loot scaling, i say that it has totally made the game rather boring for some people... this is from what i have observed and what i think will happen.

Anet says that this will help casual players. the problem is here... some casual players just play alone. New people don't have guilds yet and some of us who are in guilds don't always have our guildies on doing the same thing as us. so if i'm going to play GW during my free time... i would like to be able to put my head to work, look up some builds on the forums, adapt them to my playing style and hope that i get it right. with the new system, i understand that the loot drops according to the party size, so there won't be any difference with me going out in a group of henches or alone. and it gets really boring going with henches since there aren't alot of people who like to farm in groups.

so IMO... Anet doing loot farming has incr. the price on all items due to supply and demand theory (when u have less stuff, demand goes up, price goes up, simple economy) and it will destroy the game for the rest of us who get our kick from being able to farm and getting good stuff for our efforts. if Anet really wants to do something about farming, they would put their efforts to getting rid of bots instead of penalising the rest of us.

oh and to the people who say that prices are dropping, i would suggest that u have a look at LA d1. prices are either soaring or remaining the same with zodiacs and gemstone weaps staying at above 100k.

Really, all Anet needs to do to fix this problem is to extremely increase mission and quest rewards, around several plats that is. Then people could make money by just playing the game (for real this time). Farming would still be necessary to acquire the greens/rare weapons etc, though farming for gold would be pointless (side effect - end of bots).

I agree with that. Even better: Make players choose what reward they want by completing a quest: either skillpoints or gold or an item. So instead of 1000 skillpoints and 500 gold either 1500 skillpoints or 1500 gold or something worth 1500 gold.

This is really sad thing cause I think NM should have stayed as it was and HM should give really cool golds and more loots then NM mod. NOT ALL DROPS IN NM DECREASED TO 0 and HM GIVES HALF OF THE OLD NM. Why people arent understanding but more gold drops arent that good as a lot of white items to merch. You could have earn like 5k with white before by merching now you get a gold. Lol a single gold is it what gonna make. Lets say we got a req10 15^50(which I never got 1 since event after all those golds I ID'ed)Sword without an extremely wanted skin. So what. We gonna go kamadan dis 1 and spam all day long. And A-net is lied of no anti farm code. No one can say there is no anti farm. I was farming Halycon Job and today grinded it more than 10 times in HM and not even a single gold. NOT EVEN 1. UW farm has been dead to cause I clear out whole UW and its like giving 30minute+230-300gold for 1 ecto. And sometimes for non ecto cause loots are so bad that I can even get the fee for the second run. Now I am farming my fow with Lutgardis FFF . Its kinda only non nerfed way of earning gold. I get like 7.5k every hour. 2 weeks later I will be owner of fow this way and will be owner of defender of kurzicks. I hate this update

OH OH BTW:
What is that debate about casual player thing. Casual players DONT NEED fow armor or very rare items. They are just casul as we call them. Its enough for them to get 1.5k armors and runes and a single perf weapon. It is insane to think them should buy rare skins with playing only 1-2 hour a day lol. Anyway it still didnt changed anything. If a player is casual he still wont be able to pay 75k for a set of 15k armor and put sup vigor from 15k then but a rare skinn tormented shield and so. If they became able to buy them with work of 1 hour a day of compleating campings over and over(this is what anet wants us to do compleate missions over and over to get money) and but those items. So what every single player that played this game more than a month would have fow armor(true its ossible to get fow in a month but with a lot of farm)

I totally agree that its not possible to sell those golds. I sell those golds to some wisdom guy buing from 1.2k each. The trouble sellign them doesnt worth it. I have 5 tatooed scimitars all gold 3 are req9 2 are req10 I was selling from 25k but no buyer at all

I agree with this, but as it is now, casual players have a hard time buying stuff that IS needed. Such as skills and 1,5K armor.

I don't need FoW or 15K armor, sure, I like the skins and all, but I don't need them. Having my character equipped with a different armor isn't fun imo.

However, stuff like weekend events SHOULD be for casual players. Doesn't Arenanet make these events for everyone to enjoy? I really wish they made a 'New weekend event! This weekend, the loot scaling is removed!' weekend...

think better farming greens are better to make money; i do not know why but they are worth more and more simple to sell than golds (maybe with same skin and stats).....mahh
Play HA and hope for a good drop if you are lucky to win
Farming is dead imo. I remember when after one years have dropped a GPB req 9 15^50 that i've sold for 400K....now 40K if you are lucky :P

Okay, so here's thing with loot scaling. It's made the majority of my looting builds completely obsolete. Really, the only profitable option I have at this point is to get a few ectos in UW. Now, I have expensive tastes. Case in point.

I had a decent amount of cash. 223k plus at least 26 ectos, right?

Dead Sword (65k)
Gloom Shield (95k)
Several pieces of 15k armor, my third set. I actually tinkered around so much, I went and bought two boots with the exact same skin after destroying the first pair and then buying a second pair only to find out that I really like the first pair to begin with. Sooo...the total price most likely went beyond 100k for my new armor configuration.

And then of course...

I bought two pieces of obsidian armor shortly after that!

Now, without loot scaling, I would actually be bouncing back from this spending spree much better. I could vermin farm, or actually make some gold in UW even if I didn't get ectos...but instead I have to sell things and open chests. It gets to be risky.

I've only recovered a smattering of my wealth. I'm currently at 109k, so loot scaling is definitely not designed for the player who knows the rewards of grinding.

And to be honest, I don't see that big a difference when I'm out PvEing with new characters. My newest addition, an assassin, recently got 3 golds in rapid succession, but that's probably just a really lucky and rare feat. So I don't feel loot scaling has really helped me much.

Perhaps the original way loot scaling was made (it lasted very shortly) would have greatly altered gameplay. But when they took rare materials and green items off the list, all Anet did was destroy a wide majority of popular builds for looting. So basically, we're back at the default but now players are scrambling to find new tactics to replace the old ones.

My experience:

I'm a new player; been playing the game only 3 months, so Loot Scaling hit me right from the start basically (and I never attempted farming before the HM update anyway). I only play with one character (a Ranger).

Last Monday I completed the Nightfall campaign. I have already completed both Prophecies and Factions.

In those 3 months, the most I've ever had in my inventory at one time is 20K. I never spend money on vanity items. I never buy skills unless I absolutely need them for a particular build in mind. I have only ever been able to afford 1.5K armour, and the only reason I have a Sup Vigor is because one dropped for me. All my weapons are collector weapons apart from my two Factions and Nightfall end-game greens.

So far, I have enjoyed the game. It has been awesome. But now that I have completed all three campaigns I want nice things. I want 15K Kurzick armour, dyed black. I want cool skinned weapons for all my builds, and maybe *gasp* even give my heroes some runes and max dmg weapons

Aquiring these things is not feasible for me. I'm not playing a 55 monk or other class with a gimmick build that can farm HM. I work full time and can only invest at absolute maximum a dozen hours over the whole week; I guess that makes me a "casual gamer".

So, Anet - in what way, shape, or form does Loot Scaling benefit me, the "casual gamer"? I cannot farm normal mode because nothing drops. I cannot farm hard mode because I'm, well, a Ranger and not a 55 monk gimmick to put it bluntly.

Is my only option to trap the Underworld in the hope of getting ectos? Not very bloody likely when it costs a plat to get in only for me to die immediately because I haven't had any experience farming there.

"But you don't need any of this vanity stuff!" I hear you say. But everywhere I look, expensive armour and vanity weapons are teasing me. Towns are full of players kitted out in 15K armour, the pugs I join are full of tarts wielding rare-skinned golds and exotic greens. I course I bloody want these things - EVERYONE ELSE HAS GOT THEM!

I think definition of "CASUAL PLAYER" has been changed cause I think you arent casual player any longer cause you want to farm and get cool stuff. All of us were like you till finished all campings with few plat. Then we got idea of farm. Now you wanna get expensive stuff and WILLING TO FARM FOR IT! But anet doesnt lets us... People who dont need these expensive stuff are causeal players THAT never tries to get gold and want FOW armor. And I dont want my a player that playes 1 hour a day hase the same armor and weapon that I do. While Im playin like 5-10 hour a day.

I consider myself a somewhat more than average 'casual player'.
I did play several evenings a week for 2-3 hours, perhaps some more in the weekend.

I was in NO way affected by lootscaling.
I'm used to play with full hench/hero teams.
I made a lot of gold just exploring the three continents.
I bought several Vabbi pieces and still maintained a reasonable gold level.
I don't sell anything to players, it's all merch food.
Now my gold is set back, but that's because I'm working on my Elite titles and most kills don't net me 1K.

With NF cash became a non-issue, before my para and derv were in Vabbi, they got their own 15K Sunspear armor, funded themself. Just by playing missions/quests.

In my guild, I've heard no complaints on loot scale.
I know some people farm a lot (we started as farming guild) , never heard them complain.

Looking at the 'casual' players needs:
- Max armor. That's 5-7.5K, depending on campaign.
- Max weapon. Any white/blue/purp will do.
- Runes are not needed, but can help. Prices depend on profession, but most major runes are 100g.

For about 10K you can fully equip a character with all equipment he/she ever needs to complete the game.
In each campaign you can earn this before you get to the place where you get the max armor. In between are collectors which provide armor.
While working on the collectables, you are earning cash.

Did the loot scaling help casual players?
The scaling should not have affected them on the NPC items like armors and weapons, since casual players team up with max teams, so their income and spending should be the same.
On NPC traders, the prices have lowered on superior runes, because golds were left out on the scaling. Crafting material would have stayed roughly the same, I think.

Then there is the player to player market.
Take for example a green that cost 30K before scaling.
This is because farming players could afford the item in about 3 hours.
Now, they have to farm like 9 hours (or even more), dropping demand by about 2/3. People still want to sell, so they lower the price.
Prices drop up to the point where the farming players can afford them again in reasonable time.
This would also bring the price closer to the casual player, since his income is not affected by the scaling.
The same would be true for the gold item market, only to me that's no casual player market.

I think the casual player did get a lot of benefit from the scaling, specially on the player to player market.


Edit:
I just did a little calculation on Elona based characters.
The moment you get of the island, you chould have earned about 10K gold only by questing except the 'masters' ones and finishing missions in masters time.
On the main land, the quest without the 'masters' are worth about 25K.

You can't equip a character for 10K, as a filled skillbar already costs 8K (assuming you don't use the skills you bought and obtained in the beginning for the rest of your life). I DO have problems with cash, and farming for a skill or 2 is hell now.


The scaling DID affect us on NPC items, because we get less drops, and the prices stay the same. I'm a casual player, and 99% of the time, I was NOT in a full party.
Why? Cause playing in a full party doesn't get one cash. Now, it doesn't matter anymore, cause there is no way of making cash. Casual players were forced to farm too. This doesn't make them 'hardcore farmers' cause they only do 1 or 2 runs, and only to buy what they need. This has been killed.

And the most important things did NOT lower in price: skills and armor.

How does a green dropping less affect the demand? If I want a special weapon for a special build, I want it. I don't care about how often it drops. However, it is EASIER for me to get it, if it drops more often. If the market is flooded with the item, people wanting the weapon because of it's price, will change their mind.

If people have to farm 9 hours for the same green, they want a compensation for the increased time spending. They make the prices rise. To combat this, A-Net exempted greens from the loot scaling.

Gold market isn't a casual player market, but the gold market is dead now, anyway. A 15^50 weapon used to be special and all, now it's nothing. If I get a gold weapon, I would've been happy in the past. Now, however, nobody wants it because they're so common and crap, and selling it is a pain cause this game doesn't have a good trading system.

(Sadly enough, A-Net STILL forces us to make cash from trading only, cause all other ways have been killed.)

I am a casual player, and I did NOT get benefit from the scaling. At all. Player to player market sucks. I only have 2 hours per day, and I don't want to stay in the outpost all that time, waiting weeks and weeks before finally someone happens to be in the right time at the right place, and oddly enough have the right item/demand. That is, IF a rare item drops for me, 'allowing me to get 'cash'.

You forgot that players don't do all quests. As I said before, as a casual player I don't have much time to spend. If I did all quests, I wouldn't be off the starter island for weeks to come. Also, you assumed that the player would not buy ANYTHING. But it's kind of hard to get off the starter island with starter weapon, starter armor and starter skills.

Also, there's another problem with your theory. Before the loot scaling, people didn;t have to watch out with what they bought. They just did quests and didn't save alot of cash because they knew cash is worth so much.

The quests done BEFORE the loot scaling can't be repeated, so the 'reward' on those is gone. My position is: I already beat Nightfall in the days where I was still a hardcore player. Sure, I still have some quests I need to do, but these are just too hard, and not worth the trouble.

You My Friend, are a God.

Anet, if your Listening, this person speaks the truth.

I agree with some others here that there must be some confusion about what makes for a 'casual player'. Anyone that completes all 3 campaigns in 3 months hardly qualifies as a casual player in my mind. People that skip quests and rush thru to the end also wouldn't count. I suspect pretty much everyone that visits and posts on forums would not qualify as casual players, they take it too seriously.

I suspect the 'casual players' that aren't harmed by loot scaling, but might be helped by the lower prices for items, are those that do every quest, maybe even only 1 at a time. They take a couple of attempts to make it thru a mission, especially if they want to get the bonus. They have never been on a forum or heard of the wikis. They go out in full parties because they don't want to die. For them the drop rate hasn't changed.

As I see it those players still get enough gold/drops to afford the stuff that is available to them as they progress thru the game. This is especially true of Prophecies. The only time I have been stressed for gold was as soon as I hit post and didn't have what I needed to immediately upgrade my armor. I started a character, since loot scaling, in pre and have not had any issues with getting enough stuff. I routinely fill my inventory during quests/missions and have to salvage items so I don't leave anything behind.

The way I see it the only ones who claim to be hurting are the ones that want instant gratification and aren't playing for fun but to be leet or brag about their accomplishments.

As for me, I consider myself a borderline casual player. I play 2-3hrs most nights but have never tried to rush thru anything. I have had Nightfall for 6 months and not gotten a single character thru it. I generally take only 1 quest at a time and play my way thru the games. The only farming I have ever done is for Lightbringer but I do have fun slaughtering Char at Nolani. This has given me plenty of dyes and always a full inventory for a couple hundred gold. I do not sell to other players. I do share with my guildies but there are only a handful of us. I do not have any 15k armor but expect to get some Vabbian armor soon. I don't solo and would probably have my builds laughed at here, but they are fun for me.

I don't see that I have been negatively affected by the changes in the economy due to HM and loot scaling and I suspect that most true casual players could say the same.

Vanquishing an area typically leave me somewhere between a 2k loss and a 2k profit. The losses happen more often, and I'm watching my gold total slip very slowly. It all depends on how well I manage to retain the lockpicks. (I buy them for 1,250-1,300 and have a 35% chance to retain them in HM). Before anyone asks, I'm not buying anything other than lockpicks and (cheap) kits, and playing with 2-4 guildies and heroes.

GW clearly doesn't favor me when it comes to loot. I'm almost done vanquishing Elona and did a few areas each in the other continents, and I hardly found anything yet that's not merchant fodder. Three elite tomes, total, all in the first weekend. I've never even seen a passage scroll.

I guess in the end it all comes down to luck, but gold is really tight when just playing and using lockpicks. I guess I should do a bit of farming soon to keep up my 'living standards'.

(And of course, make a killing off diamonds when Gwen hits. )

I posted somewhere else too saying vanquishing does not bring in any gold coins for me. I vanquished without buying a lockpick, had one drop, got a purple and the total earned was about 3k for little over 1 hour. Maybe I'm bad luck cause this happens to me the majority of the time.

If you don't want to do Underworld or Fissure of Woe try Urgoz or Deep ones. If you stay in the outposts there you don't have to keep trying to regain entrance. The way to get more money is basically by farming. What most should do is move on to pvp part of the game. Campaign's all done, move on to the part that doesn't cost money. Skills will if you're a pve character but you can make a pvp one.

I'm a power-farmer that used to rake in a lot more pre-loot-scaling. Under the present patch, I can make about 1k every 8 minutes outside UW, and about 1k-30k every per UW smite run, which takes about 14 minutes per trip.

Since loot scaling got implemented, the high end market deflated considerably. I am still able to aquire plenty of vanity skin weapons, but I've also noticed a big slow-down in general sales. Loot scaling cut down the gold farming, but it did put newer players at a considerable disadvantage, and I've been playing almost 2 years.

You must be in a dream world.... I still clear over 100k per week farming in hard mode with my Elem/Derv....... There is plenty of gold to be made, but the problem is with these people that have ZERO patience. I do 15 min farms in Cliffs of Dohjok, and I get 3-4 gold unid, runes, materials, all kinds of stuff... 5k run for 15 min work. So dont tell me there is no gold to be made.. because Im still doing it, and Im doing it in a noobish area of Nightfall.
I dumped 7000 tanned hide squares today, cause the price went from 4g each to 6g each on the sell side. I had 700+ steel ingots that I saved until the price hit 200-210 on the sell side at the rare material trader, then I dumped it all.
You have to be smart, and if you are, there is plenty of gold to be made.
Did you know that you can net profit +50g per bottle of ink, free and clear..
All you need to do is save your plant fibers, and dust, in which I had 7000 of each... I then crafted glass, which takes both of those materials, it cost me approx 60g , which includes the glass, to craft ink... and I then sell the ink at rare trader for 110-120 per bottle. Can you imagine 500-1000 bottles of ink sold at 120 a bottle ???
It takes time, and it takes patience. If you dont have neither, you will not be rich in this game....
And my last tip, I salvage every weapon I get that is white, and blue if it is under 70g... if its over 70g, or purple, i just sell it at the trader....
Salvage it all, and save your materials. Except Bones, Granite, and Wood, they all have set prices, and you can dump them as you get them at the material trader... no need to save those...
It used to be good to craft Parchment with the wood, but parchment on the sell side is so horrible now, its not worth it. Unless you are using free wood that you have got while farming.
Anyways, it can be done, just a little creativity.

Liquid Fusion (in game name)

Have you ever heard of the 105 /Famine Farm for Titan Gems?

They still net about 20 to 25k a piece and the run only take 5 mins to do...

I do this about an hour a day and manage anywhere from 1 to 3 Titans...

You can either:
a. Sell them immediatly for the 20 to 25k profit
b. Save them to get an Armbrace of truth for you "Rare" Weapon
c. Save them for an Armbrace of turth and sell that for around 100k and 70 ectos...

There is plenty of money to be made in this game, you just have to *gasp* work at it!

Since loot scaling for me, might not be for everyone;

Loot scaling=me 2 sets of Fow Armor and 3/4 of the way to my 3rd set...not bragging or anything but you just have to work at it, and I usually only play for about 3 to 4 hours a day.

Yes, but I don't have the right profession at that place yet. Besides, DoA has been nerfed now, so by the time I get there, the titan gems are so overfarmed they're worthless.

I don't have the time to sell items. Besides, I wonder if 'WTS Titan Gem' even fits in the party search thingy...

I don't want rare weapons, I want skills, keys and stuff like boardwalk tickets so I can play, too.

Once again, I have too little time for selling stuff, and the trade system is broken atm


And that is the problem. Doesn't A-Net want us NOT to work at it? What they're doing and saying are the opposite. We gotta work more and more and more for fun things.


That probably is the exemption list, loot scaling just makes everything drop less. It's the exemption list that makes the titan gems still drop sometimes. It's the exemption list that saved us from the economy crash that the loot scaling almost created (ecto prises rising 3K in a matter of hours).

If the loot scaling was removed, you'd just make more profit, so it's not helping you at all.


Thanks for the tips, but they only work for people who have the right character at the right place, and who are patient enough to sell things with the broken pile of **** called the trade system.

Ok, please admit that you're stretching the truth just a bit here. I play "casually" and I have had no problem paying for new armor sets and skills without doing any farming whatsoever. I simply use the gold I find as I progress through the game. I've purchased 3 new armor sets already and I'm only level 16 with this character.
I'm not buying your argument at all.

Just by playing the game it is possible to get enough money to buy everything you need just by merching all of your junk. If you don't have enough money then you are most likely keeping stuff that you shouldn't be (hint:That req11 9% while hexed sword with a 13/12 sundering mod isn't ever going to be useful).

If you want 15k armour or superior vigor runes then work for them or be satisfied with droks armour and a major vigor rune.

Also I have been able to get a full set of 15k armour dyed black and several new greens since loot scaling through FoW and HM runs, and I only play mesmer so don't try to claim that you have to have a 55hp monk or anything like that to be able to make money.

Agreed!!!


There is absolutely no need for 15K armour or green weapons to finish the game. It is just "bling" for your character and nothing more!

My first character a W/R was able to finish all the missions and all but the titan quests from Proficies with Droks armour, a purple axe, and zero elites! My Mo/N was able to obtain Protector of Tyria with Droks armour, a blue healing ankh, a gold holy rod and only one elite.

If I don't salvage from them all my blue, purple, and gold drops are sold directly to the merchants or weapons npc. I even sold my one green drop tothe weapons npc because it didn't work for my profession. I have no interest in spending any amount of time trying to find people to purchase them, I'd rather play the game.

I think people forget it is a game and if people were to play the game with the prices set by the game everything would work out fine. When people start to set their own prices for things (like ectos & green weapons) the prices for everything-else gets F'ed up.

Personally I believe the people who participate in the overpricing of items in any-way-shape-or-form are the ones causing the Loot Scaling problems. When the price of things change dramatically you have no one to criticize but yourselves.

I refuse to participate and laugh at those who do participate in the purchasing or selling of items at greater prices than what the npcs provide.

Regards,
Grukk

I have always played in full parties, for 9 months.
I have 8 characters. 5 wear 15k armor, 3 don't, but only because I don't like any of the 15k armors available to them. All are using runes and insignia.
All of the above characters have unlocked enough skills to run several builds.
I have about 180k in my storage.

Yesterday, by clearing out normal mode Drazach thicket of monsters and doing the available quests there, I earned about 2.5k in 1hour 30mins, and got a few steel ingots to save up. That's two skills, or a piece of normal armour.

So, I call the OP's bluff. You can get the gold playing.

Also, Nightfall campaign alone, assuming just primary quests and masters missions yields you 14k gold. Enough for a normal max armour and assumes no drops at all during the game.


If you want to earn gold, consider the following:
-use the quest rewards to buy identification kits and ID everything that drops. By the time you run out of the credits, commendations, tokens, requisitions, battle commendations, coins, artifacts AND secrets, you'll have a long beard.
-do some quests, the rewards add up

Oh, BTW:
I've spent quite some time farming kurzick faction by completing the Duel of the houses quest. It takes 3-5 minutes, barring wipes and Oni minefields, and rewards 100 gold. That's at least 1000 gold in an hour, plus any drops, plus 4000 Kurzick faction, yielding 4 amber, which you can sell at the daily prices.

Yesterday, when clearing snake dance with a friend of mine and heroes, and half of Dreadnaught's Drift (Until my friend accidentally teleported us to the UW -.-), I got like 6 items. Whole Snake Dance = 6 items. They weren't even good, 2 Raven Staves, some Troll Tusks and that's it. Selling everything together, and the gold we picked up, I got 800 gold. That's in 2 hours.

What I'm trying to tell is: You being lucky with drop numbers, doesn't mean we all are. And 2K from clearing an area still isn't much. I'm supposed to do 1 hour of continuous grinding in an area, AND do some quests, and THEN, I'm able to buy 2 skills?


But too bad that I already did these quests, and masters is too hard on some missions. If not, I already have done it way back when cash was easy to get.

Already did the quests that give them, and already used the rewards to get sup salvage kits, which I sold. This was of course, before the loot scaling, so I had no idea it would be hard to make cash back then, and just spent the money. (btw I do have hair under my chin, so yeah...)

Already did most quests, the ones I still have to do are way too hard and troublesome, and only have 300 gold as reward, anyway.

Sorry, I do not like to repeat a single quest over and over and over, for a minimum amount of cash. Isn't it called... grinding? Something A-net said we would NOT need if we wanted to get cash?


My main problem here isn't even cash anymore, my main problem is A-Net screwing with us all. They tell us it's easier to buy stuff for casual players, while they did NOTHING to make it easier. NOTHING at all. The loot scaling helps NOBODY at all, and still A-net says it's better for everyone.

And don't come with: 'I'm getting way more golds now.' cause that is NOT the scaling, it's the prevention list (Which is, btw, only good for farmers, because it.

And it might be true that I can play the game without 15K armor and without elite skills or max armor, but do people want that? NO. It's A-Net forgetting that it's just a game. Why work for cool stuff like that? Why make it nearly impossible? Wouldn't it be more FUN if we could get these items without having to grind endlessly?

Why doesn't A-Net just make these rare weapons drop ALOT? That way, everyone can get them. So what if the weapon is useless? If YOU like the skin, you'll enjoy it, no matter how many other people share the same weapon with perfect stats. Is it so hard to make the 'leet' stuff accessible to everyone?

[QUOTE]i gave you a easy dependable run anybody can do that will get you 8 to 10 times what you got there or the other places you have farmed at.

i just did the exact same run to see if anything had changed which it didnt.

except this time i got a white dye which adds a few k to it..

without the white dye i got a total sale net of3.4 K for ONE HOUR

you got 400 gold per hour so it is you that is the problem not the scaling

mine is over 3 skills or at least 5 skills counting the dye.

since other people have run the same run i detailed with the same results it is not just one lucky player
every bitch you make is cash so give that up already.

YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT YOU ARE NOT ONLY NOT A CASUAL PLAYER YOU WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE A CASUAL PLAYER AT ALL

no reet it is you who have forgotten it is a game.

and *max armor* can be drok or basic but you think 15 K is the starting point for max armor.

here tis the terrible truth reet.

a casual player (most of the players) is playing the game doing the missions the quests getting to the next part of the game having fun PLAYING THE GAME

you.................

keys for chest runs i have fun chest running so make them real cheap but keep the chest rewards high to make me rich.

CASUAL PLAYER

i found a key that dropped and got a real nice purple ..... goodie

you

i need 15K armor for all the ones that dont get FOW armor i deserve the nicer things

CASUAL PLAYER

i got my 1.5 K DROKS armor and boy i feel great about it

you

i need a bunch of elites and other skills to play around with builds

CASUAL PLAYER

doesnt even think about skills except to grab a few along the way and maybe cap an elite doing a mission playing the game.

you are not playing the game reet you are working to get the best things possible it seems to try to impress people with what you have.

if you are not having fun playing the game and it is work instead of fun have the brains to stop for a break instead of bitching.

i have spent less than 5k total over all characters in the last 6 months since wintersday.

i am playing for fun not working for proft

You said it perfectly as I farm casual and don't get near enough as pro.I remember the days when you could get 10 or 15 ectos on a single run or shards.I didn't farm the UW or FoW back then but I know some who have and got their FoW relatively easy .

[QUOTE=Loviatar] So sometimes you really go off there alot at times But in my book and many others someone getting 400 gold an hour is not just there problem but chances are very likely high that many others are also like that. It also true it is anerf fault as the problem before was not enough people were getting decent rewards for casual playing. A simple just adding a higher chance alone would have been the perfect solution long ago as I had mention numerous times, since there are 2 economies ingame, 1 for vanity and 1 for necessity items. The only thing loot scaling has effected whether anyone wants to admit to is the fact to get necessities harder since they havent gone down in price at all. You can spin what you want on this and that but we really know the truth abouts drops its random and your chances to even receive the drop are pittifully low.

Its ok bro you know if you every need help on anything, you know how to get ahold of me most of the time lol.

Some of you seem confused because loot scaling and HM came out at the same time. People are getting more money and golds because of HM, not loot scaling. Loot scaling has nothing to do with the quality of drops, HM does. So if you are going to credit something from that update with your newfound ability to make more money, please attribute it to HM, because it sure as hell was'nt because of lootscaling.

Who are you to decide what makes a casual player or not? Playing 2 (Well maybe 3 hours, since it's vacation now), hours per day without farming isn't a casual player? Then what is? What is someone called after beating the game? Is it a hardcore farmer, is it a pro?

Mind you, I STILL DO ENJOY THE STORYLINE. It's just that I also enjoy OTHER THINGS IN THE GAME. Why only do the storyline with the minimum? Why can't I do the stuff that farmers can?
No, I said armor, because alot of my characters do NOT have the cash to buy max armor when they get to the point where they can buy it. My first character had to kill random creatures for days, before he could buy his first 1,5K armor. This was, of course, before I knew how to farm.

Of course, he PLAYED LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO PLAY, AND BOUGHT NEW ARMOR AT EACH OUTPOST.

Tell me, how am I forgetting this is a game? In my opinion, when playing a game, one should be able to actually PLAY it. Now, all the things I can 'play' is the storyline. For all the other things Guild Wars has, I have to farm and grind. Why is it so hard to make these things accessible to all, without having to work for it?
Who says I don't enjoy doing that? It's just that I've already done every mission and quest, and again, and again and again. So I'm forced to enjoy them, or I'm not a casual gamer anymore?
Chest rewards don't have to be high at all. It's not about the loot, it's about the fun searching for chests, the thrill of getting a gold, regardless of the stats. You don't seem to understand this.
So... if I don't like a purple drop, that suddenly makes me NOT a casual player? Just because my sense of what is a good and bad drop is different than yours, does it make me a hardcore farmer or whatever?
I don't NEED 15K armor. I'm just saying that it would be cool to have it. Is it bad wearing good-looking armor? Is it a sin of some sort? Is it wrong to be bored of the armor my character wears for 2 years? And is it wrong to want other stuff that the same ol' collectors armor I have crafted for over 20 times, now?
You're telling I do NOT feel great about 1,5K droks armor? It's great when a char of mine gets 1,5K armor, since he/she invested alot of time in it.
So... it's ALSO wrong for me to look which build works well and which does not?

Hmmm, so casual players WANT to play the game with whatever skills the may begin, and not improve their skillbar at all? When they can't beat a mission or a special monster, they don't even think about maybe their build is wrong, and maybe they need to improve it?

If a casual player's build gets screwed up because of one of the endless skill balances, the casual player will keep playing with the broken build?

But alas, you know nothing about me.

I don't care what people think about me. I just want my characters to look cool, I want to get titles cause I already beat the game on all my chars. People wouldn't be impressed with what I have, cause at this moment, it's next to nothing.

Did it ever occur to you, that people might ENJOY other things than just the storyline, WITHOUT it being to impress others, try to make others look bad, or want to brag?

Once again, stop telling other people what to do. If you don;t know the entire situation, stop making decisions based solely on things posted on a forum. And by the way, if you enjoy the game so much, why do you waste your time looking in loot scaling topics like these?


So over the last half year, you bought only 2 sup salvage kits, or 10 sup ID kits, or 5 skills? Well if that makes you happy, go ahead.

I, however, play the game how it's supposed to be played. I participate in special weekend events. I Identify unidentified items, I buy weapons for my heroes. I salvage stuff. You don't have to be a hardcore farmer to do that, do you?

Your sense of fun is once again, different. So you're telling me that your sense of 'fun' is right, and the rest is all wrong and pure for making money?


It seems to me, that to you, casual players have to be:

-Brainless and without a will. They have to play the game with nothing, and they can NEVER want anything else. If they do, they immediately lose their 'title' as casual player, and become a whiner.
-an Arenanet fanboi, who accepts ANYTHING A-Net does, may it be messing with their builds, possessed items, character looks etc.
-Enjoy the storyline of the game, and cannot do anything else than that.
-All share the exact same interests, like and dislike the exact same things, and all play in the exact same way.


If I am in Underworld, how am I NOT playing the game? If I am opening chests, how am I NOT playing the game? If I am standing on the 9 rings, how am I NOT playing the game?

All these things were inserted in the game, and it is there to be used. So what the hell are we doing when chest running, working on titles etc, if it isn't playing the game?

"Clearing ENTIRE AREA'S in Hard Mode only nets one about 600 gold"



I call BS to anyone making this claim.

I make 2-5k WITHOUT selling items/tomes to players from vanquishing 1 zone.

Some people think they get more gold then before but it's not true at all because if they were NO loot scaling in HM those people would get alot more then only the 1/8 we are getting whit the loot scaling.A.net said that helped casual player....all my friend that are casual player said that loot scaling just make them more poor.A.net said that would stop the bot....all the bot still run 24/24 and get more then before because there is no more anti-farming code so they helped them a bit.Yeah you can drop more gold item in HM but god know how many hours or days you can spend trying to sell that item.Loot scaling will always suck for me(and for alot of GW players)




Cobra

Loot scaling has not helped casual players at all. The same points are being made in this thread and in another similar one. Some people just refuse to see it from another's point of view. It's hard for them when they're already comfortably set or non-evolving.

Stormcloud, they could mean the vanquishing reward which does give crap. I haven't gotten a single regular or elite tome monster-drop vanquishing, only when I farm. Nor have I ever gotten a gold item drop worth selling to anyone when vanquishing. I guess I'm unlucky, that's why I'm enjoying pvp much more than pve, where actual skill rewards me rather than stupid randomness bullshit.

This is very true. People who were and still are playing in full parties are getting more than before by playing in HM. Those people, like me, are seeing a general increase in wealth since we never farmed (or didn't enjoy farming and stopped). Those who are used to farming for their wealth are seeing an overall decrease because of loot scaling, despite the better loot in HM, it comes less frequently.

I don't think you can lump all full-party players into the casual category, and all farmers into the hardcore category, though. I think there is a nice mix of both in both categories. Loot-scaling simply hurts all people who solo-farm. The only way it really helps is by making money worth more in the player market. Hard Mode helps those who enjoy full parties and solo, as everyone gets more rare stuff. The only way it hurts is again the player market, making rare stuff less valuable.

This basically means everything is balancing out. Where before money was so saturated in the market, and certain items were so rare that just about everything in the player market was insanely overpriced, while 15k and obsidian armor was seen as cheap and worthless. That's an imbalance. Now it's just about right. If I have 75k, I can choose between a really rare item or a 15k armor set. All of these changes were designed to bring that balance to the player economy, and I think it worked.

Besides, a solo farmer will still make more money on average than an individual in a full party. That holds true, it's just more even than it was.

instead of several replies I'm lumping these all together. each persons is in their own block.

Hmm, that doesn't make much sense as I never farmed HM without loot scaling. I agree that I would make *more* if there were no loot scaling, however that has no bearing whatsoever on comparing to what I made *before*. I make more now than I did before with less effort - add in lower prices on most things and I'm even better off.

Not sure what you declare as "casual" - I make MUCH more and I know of many that do so also. All of them are casual by any definition. I do not know what yours is, had I enjoyed farming the UW I would make less even though I generally fall into the "casual" classification. I suspect you friends are in my class - borderline.

No, Anet got what they wanted - less inflation in game, gold farmers prices rising, and true casual gamers purchasing ability increasing. It worked quite well for what they intended and most of these rants just reinforce the decision.

Agreed, however it is great for an even larger amount so it's not going to be change no matter how much one rants about it.

And there is the real problem - there are WAY more people who just play through the game than do anything else and this update helps them. The ones complaining are the ones that were *meant* to have their income reduced. I can easily see how it hurts - the only reason I never really farmed those areas was because I hated doing so. However, Anet has said since the beginning that the average person has 20k in the bank, this update really ups their purchasing power and doesn't change their income/hour in the least (if anything it is higher). You and me aren't the target of the increase.

My experience is the opposite - I really wish I could get a few elite tomes farming as it would *really* help one of my skill hunter title characters. I've only gotten them while just playing the game.

Which is *exactly* what Anet said their intention was - thus all the post complaining this is the case only reinforces their idea. It's kinda amusing reading threads like this given that- huh

Again, spot on. However, this is one of those complaints that *may* get Anet to do something as they were trying to promote the player market and have instead killed it. It's just not really worth the trouble and a few changes to the trade system would fix it. I can't say as I have high hopes for it, I see much of this stuff as more testing for GW2 - but one can hope. Since I base all my farming on merch food it doesn't bother me much, though I would like to take advantage of the player market if it was ever actually decent.

Very much so - again why so many of the above complaints are only reinforcing Anets decision. The vast majority of things were *not* intended to be high end farmers only even though that is what those people wanted. The ones they wanted to complain are, the ones they didn't want too are purchasing the items the want.

It seems to me that the cutt-off is around 15k/hour - anything above was not intended and is an "exploit", below that and it will be ignored. If you have a place making more than that I suggest you keep it secret and abuse it, below that no reason not to share it. That seems to have been true for well over year now - at least since I started paying attention.

If you get anything out of threads about farming, loot-scaling, etc. it should be that NOT EVERYONE SHARES THE SAME EXPERIENCE AS YOU DO! Just because you farm an area and pick up an average of 4-5 gold items does not mean everyone will have that same average.

I've played this game 2 years with the same friend and not only are our drop rates consistently different but also the quality of drops. So, those who post in threads as absolute authorities on how to make coin in a specific way are only talking about their own personal situtation.

It also pays to remember that many who post in fan site forums are exactly the reason why Anet attempts to control in-game wealth accumulation. They have subscriptions to sites that offer hacks and exploits, so of course they are happy campers no matter what Anet does to the rest of us. Naturally, people of this type just love to come into forums like this and flame any thread that honest players start about issues with the game.

Only Anet really knows the statistics about the distribution of wealth in the game, and they aren't talking. However, every attempt that Anet has made to "balance the player economy" has had major impact on basic gameplay while doing little to fix the perceived problem. This game will always have bots, hacks, exploits, etc. It's apparent that loot-scaling had absolutely no effect on the bots, they seem more prevelant now than ever!

Another major issue in the game is what consitutes a "causal" player. Personally, I believe a casual player is best defined by the manner in which they play the game rather than by the number of hours played, amount of wealth, or owning of rare items. A casual style of play is using a balanced party to explore various areas that the game has to offer. A casual player isn't prone to farming the same area over and over just to make coin or earn a title. A casual player doesn't visit forums to get cookie-cutter builds and follow step-by-step guides to play the game. Unfortunately, this style of play has become extremely unrewarding as Anet continues their attempt to "balance the economy".

This is just my 2 cents 8^)

This thread sure make me dizzy reading them.
From my point of view.Comparing my Nightfall monk who was made when NF came out and a Phropercy warrior who just made recently.Both of them playing normally doing quest and missions with full team.I don't notice any different between them.

My warrior still have a few platinum left after buying all skill that he need , signet of capture and the basic max armor with runes and insignias.

I think my play style is casual enough.