Loot scaling... Helping casual players...?

[QUOTE=Loviatar]There may be some truth to this, but to say HM had no effect is simply staggering.
ALL rares have dropped in price not just sup vig and other expensive runes.

But anyway my main point in this thread was only to point out that the loot scaling nerf was not the driving factor in falling prices.

I don't know how many times it really needs to be stated but loot scaling has brought the value of gold up which means it takes less to buy something. So to answer your question simply, yes it is helping casual players.

which means the items that the merchants sell should go down in price to compensate, yet the prices still stay the same. the only things that have dropped in price are high-end keys. max armor prices are still the same price + common crafting material + rare crafting material. i wouldn't have minded the loot nerfing so much if they'd made max collector armor inscribable, but they didn't. if anet was really serious about helping the casual player, they would have made that specific change to max collector armor. why? i've found that, especially in the crystal desert, after finishing all the quests and missions i have enough of all of the collector items to trade for armor. and instead of using the money to buy armor + crafting material, it can be used to buy inscriptions and runes.

No. The economy has been messed the hell up since day one. Now it is how Anet intended it to be from day one or at least closer to what they wanted. So really nothing like armor and crafting material needs to be changed.

This is only true if the same amount of items as before hits the market,which is not the case. Gold is worth more now, but items, too, since they are alot more rare.

Just look at what happened when Loot Scaling just came in effect. Prices for everything at traders rose rapidly. Until the exemption list came, and dropped the prices again. Why? If you go around cancelling the drops of something, that drop will be of more value. Just basic economy, really:

1: Item is wanted, and alot of that item are going in the market: Sellers have to lower prices in order to sell more than the other guy/girl.

2: Suddenly, no more, or very few of that item still drops. Traders are out of stock, and players desperately want to buy, while nobody sells, cause nobody gets them as drops anymore. (The players who DO have alot of this item, don't sell yet, and most of the time wait for the price to go up, even more.)

3: Because nobody sells, no more of that items are going to the trader either --> Price at trader goes up.


If you are talking about items players sell... Things are still being sold for 100K + ecto's.

So the loot scaling didn't really help anyone, it almost destroyed the economy, if it wasn't for the quick-to-follow exemption list, which saved most of the trader's prices.

Before the scaling, the economy was good. No matter how much you played, with only a little farming, you could get anything you wanted. Now, it's the other way around, and one doesn't even have a way to make quick, much cash, even though prices are still sky-high.

I think the loot scaling was a good idea with good intentions, but after seeing the out come I think it is time to tweak the system.

All of the above issues are happening.

Yes Hard Mode helped drop the cost of Runes, some Greens, and Gold items.

The AI scattering was removed from Normal Mode which I liked, and is the reason the price dropped on ectos.

Hard Mode does provide Gold items, increased gold drops, lock picks, Tomes, Passage scrolls, and Runes galore.

The loot scaling works, unfortunately not on what it was supposed to. Gold farmers and BOTS are even more present in game.

The problem is that it has not positively affected the economy. What has effected the price drop of Runes, Greens, and Gold weapons was not loot scaling but the increase of these types of drops via Hard Mode.

Loot scaling increased the drop rate of gold weapons, and gold which made it better when in groups making it more profitable to group up with real players instead of Henchmen and Heroes.

What loot scaling has also done is kill the profitability of farming for real players. The boters quickly figured out that even though it took 8 bots to get the drop rate they were getting before it didn't mater because Hard Mode was a gold mine and when those 8 BOTs gathered the equivalent of one bot pre loot scale and hard mode they made exponentially more gold than before.

Farming, running and chest running are the main money makers in this game. Yes there is trading but how do you get the items to sell and how did you build up the bank role to start you material trading.

Runners have had all sorts of obstacles placed in their way. From added monster to gates.

Chest runners had their drops nerfed every high end chest should drop a max stat gold weapon or at least enough gold to cover the cost of the key used to open it.

Farmers have had numerous nerfs to creature drops, the anti farming code, new monsters to prevent certain builds from farming areas, AI scatter, and last the farming Nuke the loot scale.

Why not work on it to make things better. The change in the starter areas was nice lets expand from that.

In starter areas the loot scale has been removed.

Why not change normal mode back to the system we had before where gold drops were rare and drops were not scaled according to party size. What we have now in normal mode is depressing.

Then leave the loot scale system in hard mode, but have no white item drops. It is hard mode and it is scaled so why are white items dropping?

A compromise.

I agree that a redo of the loot scale system would be much desired. For all the previously mentioned reasons, as well as because the casual player has never had problems.

The second he/she declared, however, that "I want a Ragos fire staff and a Obby armor!" and asked for the means to get it, he was becoming less casual. One's he has aquired the proper farmign routes and such he was basically "hardcore."

And it is the person in the second paragraph that is hurt by HM/loot scaling.


As for the lockpick bashers, the secret is this: bye them cheap and only use them on the places with the most expensive keys. FOW, Elite missions, DOA.

Oh, so that's why black dye and ecto have dropped in price...
/sarcasm

Ecto's dropped in price because they were:

1: Exempted from loot scaling. This means they are UNAFFECTED by the loot scaling.

2: Normal Mode became easier to farm in, so UW runs became more popular

3: Alot of the old farm runs got nerfed, so more people switched to UW runs

Market just got flooded with ecto's. It has nothing to do with the loot scaling, which caused the price of ecto's to shoot up from 6K to 14K when Loot Scaling was just introduced.

Black Dye price has always been low-ish. The rise in price was because Nightfall was new, and people bought new armors to dye black. Besides, the Black Dye has lost popularity because of the introduction of the White Dye.
Other than that, the dye system has been altered, so people went to experiment and re-dye armors. Black Dye price would go down, no matter what.

(Well, unless dyes were NOT included with the exemption list, which would make Black Dyes so unbelievably rare, the price would go to above the 10K)

One day people will learn that farming is not a good way to make money, pre-loot scale or post.

I'm still making about 30-40 a day without farming. I don't play but a few hours each day if even that.

Prices are much better since the loot scale though. I bought my tormented axe and shield for 750k. That would have cost me 2-3 mil a few months ago.

One day, people will learn that not everyone makes the exact same cash, and realize that farming IS a better way of making cash, cause the flow of money doing that is steady, instead of based on luck.

Sorry, but it's once again NOT the loot scaling. Gemstone prices have ALWAYS been dropping, and were exempt from loot scaling, so the scaling has NOTHING to do with it. Even if you ignored that fact:

-A few months back, the Necklaces costed 25 of each gem instead of 15.
-After Hard Mode came, it was possible to farm titan gems in hard mode, where more of them drop.
-And then there is the DoA improvements, which made it easier for more people, also causing the prices to lower.

Paying 750K for a titan weapon was a bad move, cause prices will probably go down way lower. It has nothing to do with loot scaling, though.

No, it's because of all the people who finally realized FoW Armor looks like crap.

KANE

That goes for black dye, too.

If you are consistently making 30-40K of gold per day without farming in only a few hours, it only proves that loot-scaling did little to "balance" the game. Hackers will hack, exploiters will exploit, and botters will bot. Unfortunately, the rest of us seem to take it on the chin whenever Anet implements something to fix the unfixable.

The only people that complain about loot scaling are the ones that were poor to begin with.

If you don't have cash, you're doing something wrong. Go do a DoA run, which will take you an hour, or something, and get your titan gem, sell it for 25k. Voila! You have cash.

I can sympathize with those wanting multiple sets of 15k dyed black. But if you can't scrounge up 1k for ID kits and salvage kits....wow.

Please stop complaining about loot scaling. This is like the 1000th complaint thread yet.

There is one reason for ecto price drops that's not covered in earlier postings.
There was no real alternative for stacking huge amounts of cash.
With the introduction of Lockpicks, there is an alternative that is not dominated by the market, but has fixed value.

Drops became too common and gold too scarce. That's the problem.

Ehm no. Before the scaling, nothing was out of reach. Everything could be bought fairly easy. Besides, I was rather rich before the loot scaling.

How am I doing something wrong? I'm doing missions and quests. The rewards of that SHOULD give me enough cash, but it doesn't.

About DoA: Titan Gems are worth less every day, no point investing cash in a dying farm run. Besides, selling the titan gem would take WAY too much time.

There's a reason there are so many complaints about the loot scaling.

First of all, it only has downsides, since lootscaling makes prices go up, and the amount of money made go down. (Don't reply with how prices have gone down, cause that was the exemption list, NOT the loot scaling.)

Second of all, the reasons why loot scaling was implented, are all invalid, and the loot scaling only makes things worse.

(Bots? They make cash more quick now, and buying cash online is WAY more popular than before. Casual players? We still can't buy vanity stuff, like you told us we could. Market? Used to be good, now it's broken. You just had to make it worse with a trade sytem that doesn't work.)

And then there is the rich players, who stay rich. Or became even richer, if they sold their stuff when the exemption list was not there yet, and prices were sky-high.

This is true, but really, how many people use Lockpicks instead of ecto? I have yet to encounter someone who sells a high-priced item for 100K + lockpicks instead of ecto's.

Logic Train

If you were poor and the easiest way to procure wealth was removed then you remain poor.

Oh I see instead of having wide spread farming spots to get out of poverty we are now left with this and how long will it be before these are worth less than wooden planks if everyone has to do this to make money.

It seems to me the only ones not complaining about the loot scaling are the ones who were rich before loot scaling was activated and the BOTers.

If people are still complaining about it doesn't it tell you that something needs to be corrected.

Loot scaling was something that was supposed to help the community not hurt it. Its main goal was to hinder BOTs, FAILED. The BOTers are 10 times worse. The second goal was to help casual players because gold drops were increased and the chance to get gold items was increased, FAILED. Now casual players must farm 8 times longer to acquire the same amount of loot, which is mostly junk, as before. It was also implemented to force other to use PUGs instead of H&H, FAILED. People who use H&H still use them and have not changed their play style.

So in conclusion Loot scaling has FAILED the only ones who haven't noticed or don't care are A-net and rich players. Just like in real life the rich don't want anyone but them selves to be rich, so as long as the system works that way they are happy with it.

Enough cash for standard armor, standard weapons. If you want that vanity weapon, grow a pair and save some plat. I'm sorry, but what are you spending your cash on?????

ID/Salvage kits? - that's just pathetic
Lockpicks/keys - They've always been known to be goldsinks
Crap greens/golds - Why are you buying them?
Skills - see "ID/Savage kits"

Well? Where else is your gold going? It takes 3 farming runs, and a couple of quests and there you have 10-15k. It's not that hard.

orly?

Get some numbers. Oh, right, you don't provide any. I'll give you some then. My brother wanted to buy gold maybe 5 months back. 1000k costed $45, US.
I persuaded him away from it, but recently he wanted to do it again. Same website, 1000k costs $89. How's that for you? GG.

Spout me some more political garbage. How do the rich stay richer? They SAVE. And when they have cash, they're intelligent with it, and they power-trade around, and make good buys, and go on gold sinks when they have excess.

With all the time you have spent complaining, you could have been amassing gold.

edit again. a double post, I'll add some prices so you can discuss whhy they went down (prices are in platinum):

22 april---Today
Sup Vigor 27--- 11
Sup Heal 3.9--- .85
Sup Smit 1.5--- .37
Sup Prot 1.8--- .48
Sup DF 1.5--- .36
Black 10-11--- 6
White 6.5--- 3.2

Ecto 8.5--- 5.5
Shard 3--- 2.5

Ruby 7.5-8---6.5
Sapph 6.5--- 2
Diamond 4.3--- 5.5

[QUOTE=Loviatar]I followed prices on among other things Sup Vigor for a few months. April 22th (lootnerf and HM was introduced april 20th) a Sup vigor cost 27K. Now it costs 11K.
If you look at a range of commodities runes have fallen most. HM gives more gold rune drops. HM and loot scaling had very much to do with the price drop I think.

Loot-scaling did just fine. But you and others have not learned the tricks of the trade, and how to adjust your gold digging.
Last night, in 90 minutes, I crafted 1000 glass, which I needed, and then crafted 1000 vials of ink, which yielded a 43k total profit....
I have saved all my materials, including 5000 dust, and 5000 plant fibers many times over, as I use this to craft the glass, then the ink. You have to know where to farm the dust, and where to farm the plant, and I know where you do both. Bergen Hotsprings is where I have obtained most all of the dust, and Etins Back/Drytop is where I have aquired all the plant fiber....
The cost it takes, including gold and materials, is +67 to craft 1 vial of ink. Thats the cost to make the glass, and the gold involved. A total of +67g per bottle. When you sell it for 110-120 at the rare material trader, and you do 1000 bottles per batch, thats alot of gold. It gives me a break from grinding away at the game, a break from farming, a break from pve. That is one of the reasons I never get bored in GW.... I can use this game as like being a day trader on wall street, only doing it with materials.
Yesterday, Leather Squares hit 100g on the sell side at the rare trader.. This was the first time I had seen this in almost a year. Of course, I had 2000 of these saved up over the past few months. Do the math on that one...
Aquire your raw materials, craft rare material that pays a good profit, and sell your rare material when the price peaks. Its a simple process that most are unwilling to do, because they say its boring, but yet they beg in public for people to give them stuff for free, and they dont wanna work for it. To me, that is just pathetic, and they should be out on the street corner begging for change. lol

[QUOTE]one point.

my remark you quoted was specificlly in response to this
note that superior vigors had already dropped from 75 K to 27 K before HM was introduced

also that as the price fell more and more people bought further lowering the price.

i predict that after GWEN comes out it may get interesting as it is all level 20 content including i guess level 20 heroes who already have level 20 equipment on them

Most ppl are a aware of this but it take longer to do since loot scaling and most want gold per minute not per hour anyway it is no longer usefull to make parch.you can't farm trolls and good raven staffs to salvage into wood.It get boring after awhile and there is nothing that has increased the gold drops.

Which other gold? Per day I get about 600 gold, that's it. And why is buying salvage kits/ID Kits and skills pathetic?

I buy greens sometimes to equip my heroes. Collector's weapons take too much time to get sometimes, depending on which collectible item the collector wants.

And I don't care if Lockpicks and keys are goldsinks. They're in the game right? They have a steady price, right? IMO, they should be for everyone to buy, and not just the rich ppl.


You just gave the proof yourself. Something is more wanted: Value goes up. If the bots didn't sell anything, they must LOWER the prices. This is not the case. Prices are way higher, so this means way more people buy gold than before.

Another hint is that suddenly, A-Net warns us about how buying gold nets us a ban, sounds to me that they're desperate, and more and more people buy gold.

Ohh, and just check some outposts - bots are alive and kicking.


The rich stay richer, because most of them are hardcore farmers, and their farm runs have NOT been nerfed. Stuff like titan gems, ecto's etc is hardcore farming. The casual farm consists of 1-minute farms that nets one a few white/blue items to sell to merch.

The rich people can still farm their ecto's, titan gems now etc, because they have the recources to buy everything needed for the run, and their loot was exempt from the loot scaling.

I think I told multiple times now that I CAN'T make gold anymore. I can do broken farm runs that only nets me a few items, or try and get titan gems, which requires me to first get cash for the right equipment, THEN learn how to farm, when I get a titan gem, I first gotta sell it, and THEN I have cash...

Before I did all that, Titan Gems are worth 1K if I'm lucky.

22 april---Today
Sup Vigor 27--- 11 = explained above, alot of reasons for this one
Sup Heal 3.9--- .85 = I-Monking is worthless now, so way less I-Monks which buy monk runes.
Sup Smit 1.5--- .37 = Ditto
Sup Prot 1.8--- .48 = Ditto
Sup DF 1.5--- .36 = Ditto
Black 10-11--- 6 = Price was bound to drop, even without the scaling. The new dye-system made people test out, and re-dye black dyes. Now that it's not new anymore, price is going down.
White 6.5--- 3.2 = Price only used to be that high because it was new and popular. Also, people wanted to re-dye their armors because of the new dye-system, so price went up before. Now that it's over, price is lowering again.

Ecto 8.5--- 5.5 = Ecto's are overfarmed, since they are exempt from loot scaling, and the other farm runs have mostly been nerfed.
Shard 3--- 2.5 = The price always was between 3K and 2K, no big difference here.

Ruby 7.5-8---6.5 = Unstable price. Once in a while, the treasure chests refill, dropping these, and lots of ruby's/sapphires/diamonds come in the market.
Sapph 6.5--- 2 = ditto
Diamond 4.3--- 5.5 = ditto

Gold prices go up not because of vast amount of customers, but because of the difficulty of farming gold with bots.

If you can only make 600g a day...where are you? Pre?

First City HM runs in Istan take 15 minutes, and net you roughly 3k. So....yea.

reetkever please stop whining. If you would spend less time on here whining about how you can't make gold, and spent that time playing GW, then maybe you could afford to buy an ID kit every other day.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]Sorry I don't agree much. A bit of the price decrease was probably from people selling off Sup Vigor in expectation that prices would fall or just to get cash. The big decrease would have come from HM drops.
As you know Sup vigor and Absorbtion were the two high valued runes left until Arenanet decided to change what kind of runes that came from armor. Before the patch in april 2006, gold armor gave major or superior runes, after it gold armor= sup runes. With the april 2006 patch they also made sup absorbtion a rather common rune, the price fell in a few weeks. Sup vigor dropped too, to around 30-35K in a few months.
The price of sup vigor has since been stable until HM/lootnerf. (which I know because I speculated and bought a few Sup Vigors when they were at 25K one day but they never went over 35 so I sold em off 3 months later)

@reetkever: the gem prices fascinate me actually. Rubies and diamonds have been pretty stable all the time while sapphires dropped like a bomb. I was convinced that there was someone who figured out a way to farm sapphires. Diamond prices are pure speculation prices, I guess, since everyone figures they'll finally get a use in GW:EN.
As for I-monks being useless, well undead take double damage from holy damage and farming undead in HM is a sport quite a lot of people seem to do.
However people already have their I-monks finished and ready to go so there's not a lot of runes being sold I guess.

I don't think bots have difficulte farming gold. Remember, loot scaling has no effect on bots at all. They get less money per run, but they farm WAY more faster than before.

Besides, if it really was hard to make gold on GW, the bots would've gone to an other game a long time ago, instead of sticking around on GW.

And if less people are buying gold, why would A-Net be warning us? You don't just suddenly think 'Hey, let's warn the players about a random thing'. Especially if the bots are growing into less of a threat.

15 minutes farming is WAY too long for 1 farm run. Besides, if clearing whole snake dance gives me about that amount, how can a single farm run give me the same?

Please don't post anything at all, if the only thing you want to do is troll. And please don't make random quotes telling me what to do, without knowing the whole situation. If I could make enough gold, why would I be posting here?

It's not about trading, but saving above 1M plat in storage.
There are two ways to do that, ecto and lockpicks.
Ecto has investment risks, lockpicks don't.
For trading, ecto's are still used and I think that remains.

There are several reasons why prices are down.
First of all, the monk runes got a hit (before lootscaling), because the 55 was nerfed (AoE nerf). Then the loot scaling nerf made them even less wanted.
Second, there are more superior runes on the market, since they drop more in HM and are exempt from loot scaling.
Third, a lot people equipped their heroes now, lowering demand.


That's an assumption that is probably not true.
It's about supply and demand. You think demand increased, I think supply decreased.
Decreased supply is a good reason for prices to go up.
Botters have to work longer for the same amount of gold. Or invest more in GW keys (bought or stolen).

When you see bots, you know they are farming.
But you don't know if they are able to sell before they get busted.

And others told you multiple times it's still possible to make gold.
You just want 'your' way of making gold back.

You want a quick way of farming?
55HP outside of Bergen in HM. Easy run, decent cash (merch the rares or trade the upgrades).
Other option, have lvl20 hero monk work as smiter and build a 600HP monk.
The armor costs are irrelevant (lowest possible will do and you need two pieces + headset). Runes are cheap. Same location. Other locations also work. You might need to buy some skills (8k max).

If you don't have access to HM make sure you get it.
Should also net you some cash, since you don't have all missions yet.

No monk? Also not a problem. Just delete one of your characters and start a new one in Elona. There is plenty of cash and you have all quest rewards available. Heroes are included.

You don't want to waste a slot?
Figure out a hero build that can tank (bonders ftw) and nuke the enemies yourself. Probably nets less cash, but it's still income.

No skills for the heroes?
AB/RA ftw. Does not net gold!

Still not satisfied?
Play missions in HM with friends/guild.
You probably have not finished them, so the rewards (besides drops) are there.

If you say: "But I don't want to farm/play HM", then you are somewhat out of luck.
However, there is no single reason I can think of why someone would not want to farm/play in HM when he/she has access to it.
And most longtime players do have access to HM or it's not that hard to get access (remember the rewards when you finish a mission).

[QUOTE]we actually seem to be fairly close on this

we agree that the vigors were once 75 K and dropped drastically after the earlier guaranteed salvage and the april 06 update
the sup absorb fell like a stone as hoarders sold out and also only warrior primaries could use them hence a much smaller market to fill

the sup vigor dropped to the range we agree on 26 k for me and 30-35k for you which is close

i bought a 26 k as a bargain back then and gave it to my favorite character

so at worst we disagree on 3k but we agree that drop from 75 K to 26-30-35 K happened a few months after april 06 which is many months before the first mention of HM was even made

with a drop of over 60 per cent occuring before HM was known about i honestly dont see how HM can be given most of the credit

People have told you they can make gold, and they have told you how. If you still can't make gold that makes you a little special and in need of a helmet perhaps? You just keep arguing how its impossible to make gold now. IT'S NOT. Either you have a really thick skull with nothing on the inside, or you are just purposely acting stupid to prove a point? People have told you how to make gold. If you are giving it all of your effort and can still only pull out 600 a day then you need to stop farming Shing Jea in NM.

Ah sorry, I thought people were discussing the latest price drops, not the price drops since april 2005
Then I agree, the big drop from 75 to 30 was of course due to the increase in drop rate last year. The smaller drop from 30 to 11 was, imo, due to HM

Loot-scaling is working brilliantly, imo, because of it's introduction with Hard Mode. They work together to get the desired results. If you solo normal mode, you get the least. If you full party in Hard Mode, you make out the best. Vanquishing Elona resulted in a very nice increase in the treasury... the likes of which I never got in the past. This is due to hard mode, not scaling, because I run in full parties of eight. I've benefitted from the increase in gold drops and hardly ever went home without a full inventory of stuff.

Solo-farmers? Thanks to scaling, they should be seeing approximately 1/6 of the number of white drops and gold as in the past, which reduces gold in the market. As a result, overall prices decrease as gold value increases.

Combine the increase in the value of gold with the increase in gold I get from vanquishing... I'm having a rather good time financially. Enough so that I'm going for Skill Hunter in Elona now. You know... that's an interesting aside in itself... as you know, each cap sig is costing me 1K to buy, and cap runs tend to go fairly quickly, so you can burn a lot of gold in a hurry. However, even in normal mode (for speed), I'm not seeing my gold go down nearly as fast as I initially feared. Why? I kill my way to the boss (full parties still), pick up the drops, hit the occassional chest, etc. I'm getting enough gold just doing this to save about 40% on cap sigs (math could be off... after about 10 runs I find I have about 4 plat from quickies, which buys me four more sigs...)

Loot-scaling + hard mode + full parties = good for the average player.

Yes, but it just doesn't happen enough. I can see why A-Net implented the loot scaling, but it just doesn't have effect. At least not much. Prices haven't been dropping very much, and seem to be stable now. Also, let's not forget that it are the casual gamers who farmed these white drops, so their income has been nerfed.

I know this is true, too. But wouldn't it be better to just scrap the loot-scaling? It won't affect the drops for anyone playing in a full team, and people who need some extra cash, can solo-farm.

Sure, the prices of vanity weapons might increase a bit, but we ourselves can also help this. Why not just stop buying for these ridiculous prices? Why not just all demand the item to be sold for 50K?

And the bots are our own responsibility, too. If we just stop buying, bots will be out of buisness. And when do people stop buying online gold? Exactly, when they can get enough gold on their own. Instead of limiting our drops, making us drown in them would be better.




First off, please just discuss in a topic without attempts of flaming and trolling.

Second off, do you think I didn't try these farm runs? It's just that they net me nothing special. Only a few whites, some gold, and some crappy gold items which I can't sell, anyway. Of course, it depends on the run. In some runs, I get way more cash, but they also take way longer.

Alot of the other farm runs include farming for specific items, which never worked for me. The selling of the item after the farm run also takes alot of time, and most of the time, you end up decreasing your price, cause else nobody buys.

The situation is: I don't have a long time to play, since most of the time, the pc is occupied, or I am at work. When I play Guild Wars, I want to be free in what I do, and not be restricted by cash. This is where the troll runs used to come in. I started the Guild Wars time with farming for 5 minutes. The loot from that kept me entertained for the rest of the day.

Now, however, I either have to spend half my time farming, or spend half my time farming, and the other half (and more) trying to sell an item.

When I say I make 600 gold per day, by the way, that is WITHOUT farming.

[QUOTE]as you said earlier a troll run got you about 5 K IN THAT 5 MINUTES.

WANT THAT NEW 15 k SET OF ARMOR 2 HOURS OF THOSE 5 MNUTE RUNS GIVES YOU 120 k TO BUY THE RARE MATERIALS AND THE PIDDLIG TO YOU 75 k ARMOR

bots can do the same quick run 24 hours a day so good riddence.

reet you are not even close to being a casusl player so stop trying to say this is killing casual players.

casual players reet are actually playing the game instead of trying to fill time or keep up with the jones

they are looking for the next mission/quest not the next set of 15 K

The whiners whining about people 'whining' about loot scaling is funny. For every post you post here or elsewhere there're people posting how badly loot scaling has affected them or their guildmates in game or on forums. Stop pointing out how much that useless crap has dropped down to and look at things most people actually use.

I stand by farming as the true way to make money. After your campaign is done and all there's only farming if you're only pveing.
Non-farming methods of getting by are limited, quests and missions. Once they're done they're done! Only exception being a few repeatable ones, but once you repeat it's called farming! :O How does that not make sense???
Grinding for titles or whatever...grind equals farming to me. If you can't see how that is I won't be able to dumb it down for you.
The method of changing common materials to rare materials was a nice option but you have to farm for the materials anyway. You also have to allow time for people to buy up the materials to not get only cost back.

I'd comment about rich this and rich that but I rather stick to the subject and not really Reetkever's objective. Loot scaling does not help casual players. It either makes it worse or changes nothing supposedly. If you're already advanced and sated in the stage you're in and are now playing casually, just building up worthless wealth congrats, this doesn't really concern you. Everyone will reach that stage eventually. It'll take true casual players much longer to reach that same spot than before.

[QUOTE]IM FINISHED .........WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW
IVE BEATEN THE GAME............WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW WHAT
IM BORED AFTER BEATING THE GAME....WHAT DO I DO NOWWWWW

you have to farm or else...........what??

[QUOTE]you will be looked down on by your elitest peers .........oh noesss

play for fun than do something else for a break?........unthinkable

[QUOTE=Loviatar]If I'm not casual, then what am I? Am I a hardcore farmer?

And who really cares about how much gold bots make? If gold was easy to obtain in this game, we wouldn't even need to buy gold from them.

Ehm, no. Casual players are players who don't spend all their time farming, but do other stuff instead. This does NOT mean that they ONLY do the same storyline OVER and OVER again, WITHOUT doing ANYTHING else.

Also, casual players ALSO want to do other stuff. I'm a regular human, not too rich, not too poor. This does not mean I don't WANT a brand new car, a big house and lots of cash.

Casual players don't always do quests and missions, I don't think ANYONE who plays guild wars just does quests and missions and nothing else.

Besides, cash is part of the game, too. So when you're farming, or buying stuff, you ARE playing the game. If your vision on casual players was correct, then the game was rather rotten, having all these things in the game, without anyone using them. Fact is: Stuff like chests are in the game to be used. If the game was just about doing the storyline, the whole drop/gold system would never have been implented in the game.

Oh and another thing - killing monsters in a quest, or just for farming... How is it different? We're all doing the same grind, wether you call it 'storyline' or 'farm run', the whole game is about killing monsters. There is no way to 'not play the game'.